Naruto Manga 484 Breakdown and Manga 485 Spoiler Discussion: Team Seven Reunited – As Enemies

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Post spoiler LINKS in the comments section below for discussion

Please read the commentary on spoilers by clicking here

She heals! She cries! She falters! It's Sakura!

Oh yeah, she cries uhgain…

She falters in her resolve not once but TWICE uhgain…

And, yes, like usual, Sakura gets bailed out by Naruto and Kakashi uhgain…

This predictability is like Princess Peach’s kidnappings by Bowser/resulting rescues by Mario that happen practically every other week (if you aren’t into Nintendo – my apologies).  However, this time, Sakura’s rescue was in very dramatic, very Naruto-esque fashion when NO ONE was expecting it – least of all, Sasuke.  Epic!  Wasn’t this glare priceless?

Well, Naruto? Methinks you have a decision to make and you'd better make it fast...

I, TsunadesTwin,  have returned yet again to dazzle with brilliance (or baffle with a lot of BS) on a Naruto Breakdown.  And, there was much rejoicing!  Yay!!!  (Ok, Mandi, you can stop galloping with the play pony and, Trek,  you can knock off the clapping of coconuts in the background – refer to Monty Python and the Holy Grail).  I have come back from my self-imposed exile (ok, being a responsible adult in RL) to entertain/inform/enlighten/confuse you all.  If you believe THAT then my alter ego is out of her coma on her own…

My new icon for postings. Fits my mood these days...

So here I am, reeling like all of you are, over the long-awaited meeting between Kakashi and Sasuke.   Two Sharingans and two lightning types (add earth and water for Kakashi – yes, I HAVE seen that discussion on affinities).  One is full of himself, full of crap, exhausted, bleeding (as is par for the course for Sasuke) and maniacal; the other, at full strength, somber, resolute, and pure awesomeness as usual, in his duty to protect his teammates and the recovering Konoha from the wrath of yet another Uchiha.  As always, Kakashi takes on the Emo burden as the team captain, for this very Emo former student.  Makes me wish he’d just give himself a break – geez!  He had no way of knowing that his former student would be going THIS far off the end of the pier.    Anyway, our remorseful Hokage by Acclamation, that non-Uchiha member of the Sharingan User Society, Hatake Kakashi, is now faced with the realization that there’s little to no chance of rescuing that Emo King, Sasuke.  I’m certain that Kakashi’s thinking much like Shikamaru says in the English translation from Japanese, “What a drag…”

The days of the old Team 7 have long passed...

We all wondered:  Who has what moves?  Who wins this one?  Does Kakashi have something other than the Sharingan under that headband/eyepatch?  Who has the missing eye tech, Tsukiyomi?  Who is smarter/dumber, stronger/weaker, destined/unlucky between these two?  Well, the answer came fast

Does anyone get the impression that Kakashi REALLY doesn't want to do this job?

Talking??? Yup, Kakashi pulls a Naruto and begins by trying to convince his former student to return to the “good side” of the Ninja Force.  So much for showing off his strength for the most part.  In response, Sasuke mocks his Sensei, mocks his fellow Konoha 12, mocks his Sensei’s possession of  a Sharingan (now, Sasuke, that’s a low blow…) and mocks the whole concept of a “happily ever after” by saying that Itachi was the fall guy for all the peace in the Ninja World that his former shinobi brethren are enjoying.  Oh, by the way…Did anyone happen to mention to him that Konoha is being re-built??? Or, that there is now a Fourth Ninja War going on??  Someone is soooooo not keeping up on their “current events.”

The door snapped of it's hinges...Emo Boy has completely lost it!

Meanwhile, the two women who are currently in competition for Sasuke’s top jilted wannabe girlfriend, Sakura and Karin, bond over some tears and some healing.  Problem is, both are initially being administered by the same person:  Sakura, of course.  However, Karin struggles to not find any sympathy for Sakura’s tears – with an epic fail on that count by adding her tears to the newly formed Hatake/Uchiha River of War.  Wow!  we have Epic Fail all around us here – a new record as it isn’t just Sakura anymore!  However, it does bring to mind a question:

As all of this is happening, Naruto still approaches in Sage Mode (not for fighting – yet – but for tracking Kakashi’s chakra to locate him).  Yes, he’s still struggling to find an answer to the question of:  What do I do about Sasuke?  I noted that someone mentioned how moody and brooding Naruto has become since the Pain attack.  Well, it had to happen sometime – he’s growing up!!!  He’s had some rather earth-shattering (literally) experiences that have left a huge impression upon him – and resulted in an embarrassing panic attack (hey, better than him going to full Kyuubi mode with no assist available from Daddy Hokage).  Good grief, the kid is 16, been declared the hero of Konoha for defeating one of the worst disasters to cross Konoha’s borders, revealed jutsu that is incredibly advanced beyond his years, dealt with the brutal death of his Master and still mourns over not being able to save one friend – the one holdout idea from his childhood.  On top of that, he’s made promises that he may not be able to keep, including to the one now-dead ninja that is the focus of Sasuke’s new job as Avenger-in-training, Itachi.  Man, what a drag!

With all of this brain wave activity, the Kyuubi's cramped rental space and Daddy lurking about in the ol' noggin, I'd be having some major headaches...

Itachi’s little bro’s mental canvas has now been painted black and red for darkness and blood.  And, that one fact, leaves Naruto in an impossible situation.  On top of that, the humiliation of his meeting with the Raikage, the beating by the Kumo nins, the lecture by the Kazekage – his old friend, Gaara – and add the lie from the love his young life, Sakura,  have all added to the incredible weight this guy’s carrying.  But, he does make a decision:  wait until he gets to see him and evaluate the situation carefully.  Personally, I think that is a smart move and shows his incredible growth as a shinobi.  Sakura didn’t think this one through and pulled one Epic Fail after another.

Speaking of Sakura, it’s not bad enough that she faltered once but…she faltered TWICE.  She decided that she didn’t have enough humiliation, torture and the thrill of a near-death experience so she goes after Sasuke – kunai drawn yet again – only to change her mind as the kunai practically hits Sasuke’s Uchiha crest (now THAT would have pissed him off, I’m certain).

And, for her second attempt, she runs from behind - the so-called Sharingan blindspot...

Again, she, this is getting old

Sakura, maybe it's just me but this kinda looks like we took a step backwards...

Now, don’t think I forgot about what Sasuke’s been doing.  He’s been doing far more than merely Going Emo.  Like I said before, Sasuke’s initial reaction to Kakashi’s pleas was to absolutely dis his former teacher – a definite no-no.   What’s this?  Her again?  Speaking of things getting old…Sasuke brings back his newest weapon of mass destruction that has been used far too much of late, Lady Susanoo.  With the anger building in Sasuke, she raises her head – and her weaponry – and strikes at Kakashi.  However, much to the absolute rage of Sasuke, Kakashi reveals HIS newest weapon, the Mangekyo Sharingan and HIS eye’s ability, Kamui.  Man, what a baby!  I hear “YOU can’t have that because YOU aren’t special like I am.”  OMG, just like a three year old not wanting to share his toys.  Oh, grow up, Emo Boy!

OMG, Sasuke. Just shut up already! You deserve to be beaten...

Now that Kakashi shot off Susanoo’s arrow into another dimension (too bad it didn’t hit Madara in HIS dimension…), Sasuke tries to bring Susanoo to life once again with a look of panic from Kakashi (and some snow for dramatic effect).  Oh, Sasuke has her completely formed this time, which is a scary thought for Kakashi who wonders if this time he’s going to be permanently exiled to the creepy dead man campfire afterlife.

But, as seems to be the theme of this chapter – which should have been titled “Epic Failures All Around” – Sasuke encounters some technical difficulties in being able to follow through on annihilating Kakashi.  The one thing that he was warned about, the one thing that could happen that was a fate worse than death for an Uchiha,  finally happened:  Blindness.  Wow!  He’s actually terrified and feels powerless.  What a concept!    Finally, Emo Boy stops raising his “You aren’t an Uchiha so you aren’t worthy” battle cry.  Serves you right for being a spoiled Uchiha brat.

He's probably thinking right now, "I wish I could start this day over again..."

Sasuke’s reaction to Sakura’s attempts to off him were particularly brutal and cruel.  First, he dares her to kill a near-dead teammate – then tries to nail her with a chidori at point blank range.  His reaction to her second attempt was just about as heartless:  grabbing her by the neck and raising her high above him (he had to be pretty pissed off, uh strong to pull that off), stealing her kunai and prepares to stab her.  Sasuke’s been an incredibly busy guy in this chapter.

As usual, you pulled off the dramatic entrance of the chapter. Question is, what are you gonna do next (other than send Crybaby Sakura packing)?

Then, the Dynamic Action entry of the last few chapters that only Guy could muster (too bad Lee was put to sleep), while still battling that migraine headache of a decision, comes Naruto for the save.  Problem is, did he win this?  We don’t know that as we don’t know what Naruto’s gonna do about Emo Boy.  Gaara tried to talk some sense into him; Kakashi, as well.  Both to no avail.  However, the difference this time is that Naruto saw that Sakura was in danger of being offed by the one guy he’s been trying to rescue for much of this manga; the one Sakura loves desperately.  Then…that glare.  Hmmmm…though Sasuke had almost completely lost his vision, apparently he didn’t lose it to the point he couldn’t see the look in Naruto’s eyes and it’s bad news for Sasuke.  Or, is it?

Well, well.  So much to review/dis/rave/cheer/groan about this chapter and so little writing time.  But, hey!  That’s what discussions are about, right?  I will leave you now with a few bones to pick and ideas to chew on until the next chapter comes out.  And, that leads to one more item – spoilers.

Tenrai brought up a good idea in the past few days and I think I should put it into effect immediately.  From here onwards, in consideration of those who do not wish to be spoiled/wish to be surprised, when posting spoilers (either confirmed or unconfirmed – preferably confirmed), please post spoiler LINKS, not the actual text.  If you have never posted/never posted a link before, your comment will be put into the spam filter once but one of the admins will clear the comment for posting (after checking the link for spam).  After that first time, it won’t happen again and you can post links galore – such as when Super gets on a roll during a debate.  So…there you have it.  I’m off for now…

Until next time,


~ by 綱手-Tsunades Twin on February 26, 2010.

391 Responses to “Naruto Manga 484 Breakdown and Manga 485 Spoiler Discussion: Team Seven Reunited – As Enemies”


    Now time to read!

  2. 2NNNNDDD…..hmmm…still not the same as having the top spot -_-

  3. Secondddddddd :p

    Nice job penny!!!!! I can always count on u giving a quality breakdown :).

    This was nice chap I guess, I wasn’t really surprised on how it turned out considering I knew naruto would intrupt it.

    This chap felt more like a transition chapter to me. For this big confrontation that gonna happen in 485!!!

  4. 4th =P

  5. 5th?

  6. Theres two things that i think Itachi gave to Naruto. One: a Genjitsu ability that can nullify sasuke’s mangekyo, making it an endurance fight. two: A genjitsu that can nullify madara’s space warp ability(an ability that tricks madara into thinking hes avoiding a physical attack by warping the area of his body about to be hit). One thing is for sure though, exactly what the Kage’s didnt want to happen just happened. Naruto is literally in the same spot as madara, but just in a different dimension of space. So when madara comes back, hes going to take his chance to steal naruto… or kakashi’s eye. This battle will have a sad outcome. However, Naruto has the ability to bring the good out of anyone, and it’s possible, that if he can reverse Madara’s hold on sasuke, its possible that sasuke will give his life by killing madara. ooooooo i just thought of a new possibility for what Itachi gave Naruto. It’s possible its a Genjitsu that will project Itachi into Sasuke’s subconcious. just like the 4th hokage had on Naruto, in which the hokage was able to stop naruto from giving into letting the 9-tails from taking complete control. Maybe when Sasuke uses his sharingan on Naruto, Itachi will appear in Sasuke, and reveal to sasuke the actual truth of what/why everything happened. That would explain why Itachi was willing to help naruto in his impossible attempt to save his sasuke.

  7. YOSH!!! Awesome work Penny!

    *puts away the coconuts for another time*

    From the looks of Sasuke’s vision he’s definitely nearly blind but he can still see outlines and features that stick out on a character which helps him tell them apart. Whatever happens Sasuke’s screwed. Running low on chakra and nearly blind. He’s either being captured or hauled out of their by Madara.

    I wonder if Naruto has made the decision to save Sasuke from himself by killing him.

    That’d be a little out of character but he’s a growing and maturing at a fast rate. I don’t see him killing Sasuke though because it all comes back to this.

    I don’t think he can become Hokage with a clear conscience after killing his friend. At least not at this point. So what would he do now? I don’t know but I’m anxious to hear his decision! O_O


  9. top ten man feels good great one penny and i think we are going to see a change of hearts by naruto soon
    man sasuke is in trouble kakashi is one thing but now is the true shit is going down but i doubth naruto will figth him maeby ruff him up a bit like sasuke did the first time they see eachother

    @super: ive thougt about it and for me killing him(or at least try to) is the only way to save him. naruto has always wanted to figth and beat sasuke.the hole friends and rivals thing.but more importantly he has always wanted his respect. and maeby thats gonna be the card he will play figth him to stop him by gaining his respect but i dont see naruto putting sasukes friendship over the vilage if he has to put him out at the end he will.cause sasuke is a menace to peace and that woud be going aginst what has been entrusted to him by his master fellow pupil and father.
    just my theory thougt.

  10. Great breakdown Penny!

    CHAPTER 485 – Sasuke’s decision (or lack of)

    Naruto: Quick Kakashi, Give me your eyes…. both of them!
    Kakashi: WTF! Why both?!? You couldn’t possibly need both!
    Naruto: You’ve been Hokage long enough…now gimme them eyes!
    Kakashi: HEY! No F#ckin fair! Danzo got to be Hokage for more chapters than this…
    *Sasuke contemplates killing them both, but instead sits down to watch – well, sorta watch*

    *POOF* Itachi appears, along with Jiraiya, and Hiruzen Sarutobi

    Itachi: Hey Jackasses! KNOCK IT OFF NOW!
    Itachi: STFU for a minute bro *tsukyomi’s sasuke and makes him watch his parents die again, sasuke runs off to cry*

    Naruto: What the hell? is this the hidden power you gave me?

    Itachi: YES! Every time Sasuke gets out of line, I’ll appear and make him re-live our clan’s slaughter… it makes him cry… and…

    Naruto: Itachi! You DICK! I think that is seriously messing him up!

    *Madara appears, and removes his mask*


  11. Great Breakdown Penny! 🙂

    I don’t think Sasuke is in any danger of being killed. He’s been in a rat race his entire life with no end in sight! I believe that Naruto will save him though and we shall bear witness to a whole new reckoning! Just remember that Naruto is right there with no sage mode! Maybe he has a bunshin meditating somewhere close by? I guess we’ll soon find out why Naruto is the most unpredictable ninja!

    This is probably the MOST ANTICIPATED MANGA ISSUE EVER!!! And with that said…*poof*

  12. Great Breakdown…Correct, this chapter had fail after fail after fail.

    @axelgerhard–All of those seem like valid things that Itachi implanted into Naruto. The most likely one I can see is him appearing when Sasuke tries to use his sharingan on Naruto. I also have some of my own opinions. Since the sharingan can be used to control the nine-tails, it could be possible that Itachi implanted something into Naruto to control the nine-tails chakra. Therefore, allowing Naruto to control his own actions past the 4-tailed state.

    @prawlkage–LOL. Have you ever watched “Naruto the Abridged Series” on youtube? I think you’d like it.

    @ALL–Though Sasuke has pretty much lost his vision and use of MS, I still don’t think his days are numbered. As many have stated, Madara has possession of Itachi’s eyes, so I see a very likely scenario where those eyes are transplanted into Sasuke giving him EMS. I feel that the final showdown between Sasuke and Naruto is still a ways away. Also, it seems pretty obvious that Sakura isn’t going anywhere after cheating death twice in a matter of 2 mangas, so I can see Kishi trying to salvage her character. At least I hope so…she is getting bad; Karin is even more useful than her.

  13. @prawl: LMAO I think that is the funniest analysis of the next chapter I’ve seen. I think I love that Sakura is Madara comment – definitely epic.

    @everyone: I’d like to defend my question about Karin for a moment. Remember Karin is also in love with Sasuke. She also now realizes that Sakura loves him as well. On top of that, she’s a sensor who has been watching Sasuke’s chakra become darker and his actions more brutal and evil; something she has been both concerned about and has now nearly died over. I asked that question for all of those reasons: Karin probably loves Sasuke enough to, in her mind, save him by sacrificing her life in the process of taking his – or trying to convince him that the path he has chosen isn’t the brightest move. On top of that, I believe that she will see what Naruto will do, as well as the efforts of Kakashi, and realize what these guys are trying to accomplish. I don’t believe that she’s THAT cold and calculating. To be honest, I don’t believe that this is all going to come down to Naruto or any of the others alone. There will be something or someone else that will drive the ultimate conclusion.

    If Sasuke survives, Karin will return to Konoha (a given) – and give them information less than willingly. However, Sasuke will have no choice but to pledge his allegiance to Madara and Akatsuki. For one, he’s nearly totally blind and, if Madara really wants this kid for his own purposes, Sasuke’s up for the next Sharingan transplant. Now, note I mention “if.” There’s no guarantee he’ll survive here given his eyes are now in less than top form, to say the least. Madara may decide that Sasuke has also served his purposes to their fullest and may “off” him as no longer being needed though that may not be as likely.

  14. Wow, can’t believe Sasuke’s well near blind now, exact same as how Itachi became while he was walking towards Sasuke with his Susanoo. Sasuke’s gonna get another Mangekyou and get permanent vision, Madara’s courtesy … no other way. I mean, Sasuke’s sure
    not gonna die right around now.

  15. First of all: GOD I’VE MISSED THESE AWESOME BREAKDOWNS! Great job Penny. ^_^

    To tell you the truth, when I first saw the glare, it never even occurred to me that Naruto had decided to off Sasuke. It felt more like he was angry for what the emo nearly did to Sakura, but he was still completely open to using Therapy no Jutsu, although a little more… persuasively perhaps. *expects a large dose of shouting and some booms*

    As for Karin: I agree completely with Penny in terms of what she feels and what she’s able to do. It’s obvious that this new Sasuke scares her, but, like Sakura, she can’t give up on her feelings. If she won’t sacrifice herself for the good of Team 7 in some way, she’ll at least try to help as much as she can. She doesn’t seem so cold and antagonistic anymore, probably because she’s been through enough to make her see everything differently.

    What I find hardest to predict is the eyesight problem for Sasuke. There is no way in HELL that Kishimoto would make the big battle between Naruto and Sasuke unequal in some way. Conclusion: before anything really big happens, Sasuke has to regain his eyesight. And so far I am stumped as to how Kishi plans on pulling that off.

    Madara’s sharingan? I doubt he’d be willing to give that up before his plan is executed.

    Itachi’s gift to Naruto? Slightly more plausible, although why, when knowing that his brother is going to want to destroy Konoha, would Itachi give him the weapon to do so, instead of helping Naruto convince him in some way?

    Maybe Karin’s healing abilities might help in some weird way, but I don’t think she’ll want Sasuke to be powerful again. Not when he’s lost it so much.

    I also have a bad feeling that Kishi’s going to pull a ‘healing factor’ on us and have Sasuke magically regain his eyesight because of Itachi’s part in it blah blah blah.

    Oh well. Either way, we’re nowhere near the main confrontation yet, in my opinion.

  16. I think Naruto will have some shouting to do at the beginning of the next chapter, where he’ll let off some steam after having witnessed Sasuke’s actions himself.

    After that, he will calm down and probably try to inquire as to Sasuke’s choices and see if he can get a straight answer. Sasuke’s answer will be the deciding factor in Naruto’s next action, but I think we all know what Sasuke’s answer will be already.

    Once Naruto realizes that he has to literally beat the sense into Sasuke, he will make the choice to fight. Whether an actual battle will follow right away, or whether Madara will just interrupt them before that can happen, is another story altogether. However, we all knew from the start it would come down to Naruto fighting Sasuke no matter what else happened and that is more due Sasuke’s choices rather than Naruto’s.

  17. awseome breakdown penny!

    i highly doubt that naruto will do alot of “shouting”. the look on his face had a calm demenor and a sence of ‘i know exactly what im going to say to you’

    i believe that the only way to get sasukes attention is by telling him the conversation he had with itachi, since he is the only person in the world that sasuke respects right now
    that is the only thing that could shake sasukes resolve

    that being said, i hope naruto kicks some emo ass before hand just for good measure ^_^

  18. Is it just me or was Sasuke awaking the true form of Susanoo right before his vision faltered?!? It would have been so cool! I was itching to know if it still has the Yata Mirror and the Totsuka Sword!

    @deathcon4: Epic Fail. Pediwee beat you.

  19. awesome breakdown!!!!
    the next chapter is going to reveal which road the manga will be taking. can’t wait.

  20. That look on Naruto’s face was so coool

  21. excellent breakdown! you are truly awesomeness! I was thinking that Madara might come rescue Sasuke from Konoha jail after he’s captured, but now that that I think about it, that would be risky for both sides, and they know it. Not sure Madara would risk an appearance in Konoha at the moment; they probably have a trap set up, just for him.

  22. WOW! This was fast! Very nice work madam… 😉

  23. Kishi must’ve really hated Sakura… There’s no turning back now.

  24. @everyone: I’m still seeing Karin as a witness of the “chakra” in everybody. I see her amplifying the inner turmoil of the situation by acting as a commentator. We’ve had Sakura and Hinata jump in to the fray before, so why not Karin, right? Well the only thing holding her back is her critical condition. Otherwise it feels definite. I bet a lot of people are eagerly awaiting Itachi’s jutsu to activate! All that Sasuke has to do now is light those eyes up for just one moment and we’ll have ourselves a show. Unfortunately, Naruto is out of sage mojo…so, it’s gotta be that time for divine intervention. There is a remote chance that Naruto made a clone, but its unlikely. He could always make one though…

  25. naruto is in sage mode at the end right? cuz you can’t really tell from the drawings.

  26. hmm i wonder how madara is gonna warp sauce out…

    you remember everytime he warps somebody he stands still and ! with that gives a perfect target for kakashi (the guy caught the frikkin arrow). so there will have to be some sort of setup to do the trick. sure it will happen and mb im just thinkin into this too much but damn kick my nuts if im wrong … he wont just go in there warp sauce out and say so long and thx for all the fish in the progress.

  27. @truepain: no he isn’t. There’s a reason – look at my write up again – I explain why.

  28. Velcome, velcome back, Penny

    Definitely an awesome chapter, that was. Well, I don’t know about youz guyz, but I liked it a lot.

    I think we all know this isn’t gonna be the final showdown, but what I wanna see is for Naruto just to push Sasuke around a little, without showing any visible effort…just to get a simple message across: “I’m not like before.” Plus, it’ll be funny to see cocky-as-hell Sasuke get roughed up by “useless” Naruto.

    Either way, the next chapter is going to be great, and I can’t wait (I should become a rapper >_>)

  29. @Pain: Naruto has narrow eyes and dark pigmentations around his eyelids to show he’s in Sage Mode.

    He must have ran out of Sage chakra while running and tracking Kakashi’s chakra.

    @Anyone: Why does Kishi keeping giving his female characters the shit end of the stick? Hinata is a sacrifice. Sakura has reverted back to her old useless self. Tsunade is another sacrifice (though a great thing she did for the village) all she could do was heal and not fight. She’s the freaking Hokage! Haven’t seen her in action since the fight with Orochimaru.

    Kurenai is pregnant and her one fight (with Itachi) was her only time in action, and she proved useless. Anko got bitch slapped by Orochimaru and now she’s nowhere to be seen (on the hunt for Kabuchimaru). Shizune got man handled by Kabuto and we haven’t seen her do anything useful since. Oh wait…she got her soul sucked out and then was brought back to life. That’s not very useful. -_-

    Ino…no comment. Tenten…do I really need to explain? Karin is about as useful as a GPS system and the Cloud Ninjas (Karui and Samui) haven’t been showcased much. What we have seen of Karui makes her to out to be a more violent version of Sakura. Chiyo is the only woman in this manga that has been seriously and consistently kick ass to me. It’s probably because she died so quick why I like her so much. If Kishi had kept her in the manga she would have been disregarded and fallen into the same role as the other female characters.

    Don’t get me wrong there are some kickass female characters out there but I wish Kishi would highlight them more in the main front (Sakura and Chiyo vs. Sasori) rather than the supportive roles they consistently take on. Damsels in distress, playing Daphne from Scooby Doo all the time. -_-

    Oh, and the Mizukage was pretty kickass to until Zetsu blobbed all over her. @_@

    @Pickles: I don’t think anyone looks at Naruto as useless now. You may be thinking of him and people’s perception of him 3 years ago. Now though the entire village recognizes his accomplishments.

  30. @penny: do you mean this ” Naruto still approaches in Sage Mode (not for fighting – yet – but for tracking Kakashi’s chakra to locate him)”??? cuz otherwise i didn’t see it. anyway, why didn’t he arrive in sage mode? does he expect sasuke to not put up a fight?
    @supertrek: you sure made a point when you said that you can’t base a character’s speed when he makes an entrance! lmao!!!! i still think that naruto in sage mode is just as fast as sasuke if not faster. what do you think penny?

  31. @trek: the only one who thinks of Naruto as useless is Emo Boy. Problem is, he has absolutely no idea of what powers – or even what element affinity (tee hee hee, just on that score for the most part, Naruto kicks butt) – that Naruto has available. Yet…very soon, Sasuke’s going to find out and in a “Pain”-ful way.

    Female characters – totally agree. Ino is number three on the wanna be jilted gf for Sasuke list and is blubbering her eyes out at the moment. Not much use. The others…correct on those counts. Samui was all tatas and…? I don’t think Kishi quite knows what to do with Tsunade so she remains in that perpetual state of limbo known as a manga-ka -i nduced coma until he gets that sorted out. Hinata I think is the most tragic as she has some amazing capabilities that are being taken for granted. And, I loved the Mizukage – though I didn’t like that she used the sex appeal angle to battle Sasuke – that jutsu was amazing yet interesting. I think Kishi has a problem with making strong females. It’s not like strong women are bad – I happen to think I’m one. 🙂 But, it is so tragic that many are being pushed aside when they could be adding more depth to the plot and take us in many different directions.

    Sakura…ahem. Off her, Kishi. I’m so disgusted with her.

  32. He probably ran out of Sage chakra…and yes, that is what I meant. He was only using it for locating the battle so he could have either run out or de-activated it to save chakra.

    Sage Mode: he jumps way higher…and his speed and other abilities increase in magnitude. Given Sasuke’s mind has weakened considerably in it’s “sharpness”, it is entirely possible that some of his basic skills such as running speed may have suffered. Yeah he has some amazing abilities but he’s relying way too much on the eyes, hence the blindness.

  33. @penney & super: yeah, i noticed that too. most of the side characters and all the girls in general of the manga are being pushed aside to give more space to madara, sasuke and naruto. i know it must be tough to write a manga, but kishi should develop the support characters a little more. it’s not that i’m disappointed in the manga – i loved how the akatsuki members were presented and how there are many mysteries still to be solved- but old characters that we used to like are practically useless now.
    yeah, my bad. i relooked at the pic and noticed that naruto’s eyes are normal.

  34. @penny, super: it’s true that Naruto’s become incredibly strong now, both in the eyes of his enemies and the village. However, it seems to me like Sasuke’s pride will never let him admit that to himself. Wouldn’t it be ironic if he begins to talk about how weak everyone in Konoha is again only to get hit by Naruto with apparent ease?

    I keep seeing this scene playing out. Sasuke is so conceited now that he thinks the whole world revolves around the Uchiha and his own life. It’s very likely that if he dies (later on of course), it will be because he’s underestimated someone, be it Naruto or whoever. His weakness isn’t physical anymore- he’s proven that much (except for the eyesight problem, but I’m sure Kishi’ll fix that -__-)- his weakness is completely emotion.

    He’s a jackass lunatic. *shrugs* Emo turned ego turned crackpot. Combine all three and you have one unstable guy who’s going to make loads of mistakes.

  35. yup, the sharingan is just about everywhere.
    see you all tomorrow, i’m going to bed.

  36. @Pain: Ah crap, lol, your mention of Akatsuki reminded me of another female character that’s been pushed aside. Konan! Attacked Konoha which proved pointless in the end, and left for home with her best friend’s dead body. ~_~ Also Pein’s (Yahiko’s) dead body I think.

    LOL at Uchiha pedobear! XD He can steal your techniques and your children. ><

    @Penny & Dynamic: I do believe Sasuke recognized Naruto's strength a long time ago. He just doesn't care about Naruto because he severed his bonds with him 3 years ago. Which makes him so badass because now Naruto is chasing after him! XD

    Anyway, Sasuke doesn't think Naruto is "useless" or even weak for that matter. He gives him the cold shoulder in his awesome way but that's about it.

    (Oh boy, this may start up another Naruto vs. Sasuke debate)

  37. Me thinks Naruto is going to say something like “your acting like such a baby Sauske. You act as if your the only one that has suffered. ‘Aww, my brother died for the sake of everyone in the Village’ Boo Hoo. Well guess what, your not the only one this has happened to. My father gave his life for the village, you don’t see me complaining. He even put in a 9 tailed demon fox into me. Imagined how that was like growing up Mr. Sausgay the selfish one”

    This is where I become stagnant. I start contemplating what will happen next.
    -Naruto goes with Sauske because he is the nine tails and Akatuski wants the tailed beast
    -Naruto is going to kill Sauske and starts running after him but then madara appears to take Sauske away or
    -Naruto finally lets go of his promise to bring back sauske. And he says “runaway Sauske. And never return because the next time I see you, Im going to kill you!” and he lets Sauske escape… For the last time.

  38. @Super: I was referring to how Sasuke saw him. That’s why I put the work in quotation marks ;).

    @Entrance: Yup, that’s exactly what I mean (talking about your first paragraph now).

  39. Naruto is not out of Sage mode becaz he run out of it or whatever..He just tried to catch up with Kakashi…He cant go out on sage mode that easily by just chasing them.I think he didnt want Sasuke to see him in Sage mode from the start and it was tactically a wise decision

  40. @Wiseman: Ahem…yeah, this is why I’m going to do a post regarding those two pasts at some point. ~_~

    As for Naruto giving up on Sasuke I think he’d rather give up on becoming Hokage. To never give up is his nindo and if he ever breaks it the manga just wouldn’t be the same.

    Lol, I like your second option though. *imagines Naruto running at Sasuke swinging a kunai like a madman*

    @Pickles: Lol, yeah that’s what I was talking about. “I don’t think anyone” (that includes Sasuke) sees Naruto as “useless”. When Sasuke said “you’re strong” to Naruto surely he’s not telling him he’s useless. Breaking his bonds with Konoha has made Sasuke not care about Naruto but that doesn’t mean he looks at him as “useless”.

  41. @trek89 – haha yeah he’d be running at Sasauke as if it were an FLCL chapter

    It would have been better if Naruto rescued Sakura in Sexy-no jutsu! Everyone would have been like “wtf?!” either way

  42. @Super: Aah, I see what you mean. Maybe it would have been clearer if I said “formerly-perceived-useless”. I still don’t think Sasuke’s haughtiness will allow him acknowledge Naruto, not until his face has been pummelled so far into the ground that the heat from the earth’s core melts it…hell, probably not even then.

  43. @tsunade; “and there was much rejoicing” *face palm*

    i agree whole heartedly at saskue being about 2 1/2 years old. saskue: “i hope you thanked the uchiha for that,” my witty retort: you should thank your brother… asshole -_-… He also wines about nothing other than itachi, except for the minor fact he killed him, and swears revenge against all those who destroyed the uchiha, except for madara, blames his former colleagues like it’s their fault that his family is dead, except they were as much at fault as saskue was, and wasn’t that itachi’s goal anyway? For a the younger generation to grow up in a village without war? Was it not his goal to kill his own family so both the senju and the uchiha wouldn’t end up killing themselves? Wasn’t that exactly what madara said?

    For a guy who cares so much about his brother, he seems to care very little for who he actually was.

    My predictions are that naruto and saskue will talk much like they did at the Valley of the End, with saskue telling naruto he’s going to destroy konoha for revenge and naruto has no understanding of what it feels like. Then Naruto will tell him that it’s too late, konoha is already gone, destroyed by akatsuki, and that he does because he lost jiraya and his dad for the same reasons saskue lost itachi, in the quest for final peace. And naruto might even tell saskue that the same person who killed his father and indirectly led to jiraya’s death is the same one whol helped kill saskue’s own family. saskue will ignore it and try to fight, he’ll be too weak against naruto and naruto will try to convince saskue to look at himself, but saskue will take it at naruto taunting him and he’ll pathetically fight on until madara has to save him and eventually saskue will realize his weakness and take itachi’s eyes.

  44. @Alec: The thing is Sasuke and Itachi have different visions. Itachi valued Sasuke’s life over the entire village so he slaughtered everybody in the Uchiha Clan besides him. Itachi’s overall vision was peace through a necessary evil (the killing of his own clan).

    Sasuke values Itachi’s life over the entire village so he’s going to slaughter everybody he blames for his death. His overall vision is revenge and retribution for his clan he felt got screwed over. Of course this is where he’s warped because most of the village did not have anything to do with Itachi’s death. Only the elders and the Uchiha planning the coup d’etat are to blame. Can we really blame Sasuke for Itachi’s death? When Itachi set Sasuke up to kill him. When Sasuke was led astray his entire life up to the very point of Itachi’s death.

    I guess we can since he did technically end up killing Itachi but that’s like blaming a man for killing a terrorist then that man is told later, ‘Actually that terrorist killed all those people for this “good” reason’. O_O

    I believe he’s working with Madara just to take out Konoha first but I think we all know he’s on Sasuke’s hit list too. Madara probably knows this too. I wonder what Sasuke’s plans to destroy though since he already knows Konoha is already destroyed.

  45. My apologies for the repeated information if it has been mentioned.

    Seeing this debate reminds me of the first time the team – their first mission with Yamato – encountered Sasuke 2 1/2 years after he fought Naruto:

    I see this as a rematch as Sasuke is now even colder than he was back then – remember, he didn’t kill anyone unless they were worthy of killing and now he’ll kill anyone regardless of past bonds or abilities other than possession of a Sharingan. And, despite Sasuke’s perceived abilities because of the sharingan, he’s let his abilities rust and allowed his rage to drive those abilities and for him to gain “power.” During this confrontation, Naruto figured out – and was told by Yamato – that he should NOT lean on the Kyuubi’s power to fight. Yes, he went to 8 tails but that was the only time since this point Naruto invoked the Kyuubi and did NOT have the benefit of Yamato’s assistance of coming back.

    I think that since this confrontation, Naruto is, indeed, the stronger of the two. Why else would Madara have acknowledged (abeit indirectly) his strength in defeating Nagato:

    Even though Sasuke dismissed that a few pages prior to that link, it is something he will come to regret, especially since the main crutch – the Mangekyo Sharingan – is out of commission for the moment. Rage won’t fix that problem.

  46. lol I love how Sasuke has lost his vision so quickly. It makes you wonder just what kind of control Itachi had to keep his own vision stable over the years, you know?

  47. @dynamic: I agree with you on the assessment that not only is Naruto stronger but that Sasuke’s “Uchiha pride” will not let him acknowledge strength other than those from his clan. I also think that this will be his downfall.

    Personally, my desire is to see a few words, a dis of him harming Sakura and then firing up the Fuuton jutsu to counter chidori. Wouldn’t it be awesome if there was a Senpou: Fuuton – Rasenshuriken at least threatened? I mean, Kakashi hasn’t seen the final version either.

  48. oh my… this chapter was so aawesome… i was moved by it so i had to post rather than just read like normal. the glare from naruto just got me excited this was a great build up for the next chapter

    in the next chapter i can see naruto goin straight in at sasuke with the super smack just like when he met his dad for the first time (hopefully he will hit 10x harder) if thst happened id ve lost for words

  49. @BB

    Actually, Itachi didn’t use his Mangekyo Sharingan that much. Sasuke was so impulsive, so whenever some one made him angry or frustrated, he’d erupt with Susano’o. Like in the Sasuke v. Danzou fight. Here’s a link…

    So, Sasuke used his MS MUCH more often than Itachi did. So, Itachi kept himself pretty good in the vision department.

  50. @noneatencookie: I’ll agree. He spams it way more than Itachi ever did. It’s true that Itachi had it waaaaay longer and probably did use it frequently, but he let a long time pass in between each use. Sasuke has been going at it for what seems like 3 days now (idk could be a shorter time period). His eyes are screwed over big time!

  51. @noneatencookie: Not true about itachi there…he was also losing his vision. Yes, he was far more cautious in his usage of the MS and only used it when absolutely necessary, but he was still going blind.

    On that one point, Danzo called Sasuke on how sloppily he was using his power; letting rage decide his actions and I agree with that (of course Sasuke didn’t like being called on his, uh, garbage). It is pure emotion and the resulting adrenaline that is driving him and his common sense took a hike through the Fire Country. His eyes are so messed up now that there is significant damage done to the point where if he abuses them again, his vision won’t come back.

    OMG, I’m starting to include links like Trek! ><

  52. @ Everyone IDk if anyone said this before but Naruto is still showing cunning in this fight having a clone already prepared for sagemode, Remember the one that is “sleeping” back with yamato at the inn.

    As I said IDK if anyone already posted this but i’ve been thinking about that ever since i saw naruo run out of sage juice ant the glare part at the end of the chapter.

    He sure has gotten smart, Naruto, compared to his old self and plans things way before shit happens, He’s like a version of spiderman where he would also rely on a future strategy.
    It really pisses me off when i see naruto and sasuke comparisons on the net where they compare speed stamina and such and Naruto is soooo downsized when in fact narto is faster and stronger and more cunning then most if not everyone in the manga, well there is always kakashi who is a master at these things, but other then him, naruto is awesomeness.

    Any way I’me really syked to see what will happen in the next chapter and see if the special power itachi left Naruto is gonna surface.

    @ supertrek89 You said in a post above that a Naruto vs sasuke power difference debate might start.
    Well i’ll throw in the first punch saying that Naruto at this point is a little less powerful then Sasuke.
    And I mean sasuke at full power just as he was with Danzou.

    While Naruto has Sage mode that gives him Better speed and brute force and a wider range of hitting and not to forget the chakra sensing and fast recovery and stamina in a fight, he is also smarter now and possesses the wind affinity witch nullifies sasuke’s lightning base attacks, Naruto still has to recharge he’s sage chakra after a strong attack witch will cause him time on the battlefield time that he dosen’t have to waste.

    On the other hand Sasuke now possesses the complete mangekyo and has finally completed Susanoo just like itachi’s
    And has at he’s disposal Amaterasu witch naruto probably can’t dodge even with he’s current high speed, he also is fast in battle witch is now debatable if faster then naruto.
    Tsukuyome is a power naruto can’t escape from unless he learns to relay on the fox to snap him out of the genjutsu, so that’s another as up sasuke’s sleeve, the next thing on the list is sasuke’s fire jutsu witch is stronger then narutos’s fuuton, not to mention Kirin another super fast attack in sasuke’s arsenal.
    And last but not least Susasnoo best defense & best Offense and naruto dosen’t have izanagi at his disposal like danzou or kakashi’s sharingan to avoid the fast arrows.

    If u line them side by side u can see that sasuke has more trump cards then naruto, and the only way i see naruto being able to keep up the fight is kage bunshin until he finds a weak spot in sasuke’s strategy and attack with the rassenshuriken, either than that. Is either the complete control over the kyuubi like The BEE or maybe a hidden kekegenkai that gives Naruto his father’s super speed.

    If u find something u fell u need to add to this Super (AND I KNOW U WILL) feel free to do so because at this point in time Sasuke is the top dog in the yard.
    And I say it again I’me referring to sasuke at full power.

    At the way he is now almost blind he’s like a old man so we can’t expect him to put up much ,if that, of a fight against Naruto.

  53. Oh and one more thing, What was Kakashi referring to in this pannel
    was he referring to the fact that he is weakened after using if or what. I didn’t get it 😕

  54. @Eugen: I think this was the fatigue side effect of using Kamui, another MS cross-dimensional jutsumagig he used to counter Susanoo’s arrows.

  55. Seeing that right now we are discussing Naruto-don’t you guys think that it’s high time he learned some other wind techniques. Judging from what I’ve seen from Danzo, it’s obvious wind nature is pretty devastating in the hands of someone proficient with it. For example those vacuum attacks seemed like a very powerful range weapon and Naruto can learn chakra current to enhance his weapons as well.

  56. @ lousytv I actually thought of the same thing and i think u’re right, and if that’s the case then kakashi has a really bad stamina problem seeing as how sasuke was playing Susanoo all day long and he still found time to use other jutsu like he’s chidori sword, spear whatever and didn’t show signs of fatigue.
    That means Kakashi’s jutsu might cause he’s left eye to go blind as well and probably at a fast pace. He might be at the brink of blindness right now given the fact that he used the jutsu almost 4-5 times now. I think the first time was against Deidara when he sent he’s arm in another dimension and after that he used it to transport the kamikaze deidara, and if i’me not mistaken he only used it afterwords when he saved he’s own life from pains’s nail and to save Chouji, and that took him to the death waiting station at the camp fire.
    So that means kakashi is good for about a couple of normal attacks and two Kamui attacks until he runs out of chakra.
    And if i’me not mistaken he ended up in the hospital after he disposed of deidara’s exploding clone so that means that my theory of kakashi being limited to just two Kamui must be about right. Let’s hope Kakashi still has a way’s to go before he’s light goes out.

    And might as well if i brought this up i had something that bothered me for a while, If a man like kakashi or Danzou for that matter replace the one eye with a spare after it goes blind seeing as they are not uchiha will it become eternal the one eye transplant??
    I really want to hear some theories from u guys on this because it really had me searching for answers for a long time.

  57. @ to63to I agree with u 100% but better then that we should hope too see NAruto learn some more Elements with witch he can make even more jutsu.
    For me i’de like to see a katoon-rassengan and a raiton one as well. Not that would be awesomeness.

  58. I actually think that Kakashi will take it upon himself to further teach naruto this things and prepare him for the final battle with sasuke if not to be ready for the war to come and the bijuu they’ll probably be facing. Besides from the kage bunshin fast learning experience kakashi hasn’t really shown Naruto much as compared to saskue witch he made Lee fast and with a lightning in his hand, so i think it’s time he redeemed himself for leaving naruto on the bench.

  59. Ah maaaaaaan, already such a long discussion going on, I hope I can still join! But what I hope more is that my “few” words reach the author Penny and maybe she’ll comment on that as well:

    I think you have been given a lot of credits for your work already. But I’d like to write something special. I noticed it already earlier, but this breakdown really made it clear: I really, really appreciate and love that you’re not doing repeated character bashing like I have read quite some times in the past. As that is REALLY important for me, I think you have just gotten my favorite author. Of course there is this “Emo King Sasuke” thing and the “Sakura the Useless” thing, but… I don’t know, I have the feeling you deal with all this much more … “grown up” or so (maybe it’s because you ARE grown-up, literally), and you don’t repeat that in every second sentence. It’s a pity, but I get really annoyed when every second sentence starts with “saucegay” and “mr. emo king” and “bitch sakura” and so on… 😉 . And that’s not because I like both characters instead of hating them till death, it’s simply that I find this repeated bashing writing style… bad.

    Also, you have really given all this “drama situations” like Naruto fainting, all his burden and his long way etc. a lot of credit and cherishing, and as that is very important for me as well, your writing style has another great characteristic for me.

    Ok, now for the breakdown:
    “Now that Kakashi shot off Susanoo’s arrow into another dimension (too bad it didn’t hit Madara in HIS dimension…)” *lmao* I really had to laugh hard there 😀 😀 !

    @Spoiler links: I think the idea only to post spoiler LINKS instead of the whole text is nice, but for me personally, it doesn’t change anything. I don’t read spoilers. And the day when I come here and see something from the corner of my eye saying “spoiler”, I immediately leave this page because everyone here takls about the spoilers from this day on. And so, it doesn’t make any difference if the spoiler itself is not posted word for word, because the users talk about the spoiler as well.

  60. @Penny (From about 10 comments up)

    I never said Itachi wasn’t going blind. I just meant that he used it much less, so his vision didn’t fade as quickly.

    Uh, let’s see. If Itachi was 21 when he died, and he got his MS when he was about 14 (?), that would make him had his MS for 7 years and didn’t go COMPLETELY blind (Until the very end of the Itachi v. Sasuke battle)

    Sasuke is 16 right now, and he’s had his MS since he was… 16. That’d mean he had his MS for maybe a month without going blind.

    Wow… Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke. You need to lay off the MS.


    I feel the same way about spoilers. They give away the suprises the creators have in store for us. That’s why I only come here when someone (Penny, Trek, Pickles, Kabutoslingshot (?), etc.) writes a new post.

  61. @Eugen I too agree with you but for the time being I think he is plenty occupied with his current element.I also wander, Kakashi said that wind is perfect for close range fighters like Naruto but so far we have seen mainly ranged attacks.

  62. @Eugen – I agree with basically everything you’ve been saying… haven’t seen you post in awhile, chats/debates are usually dominated by trek and tenrai and aeris…
    I will officially take your side in the Naruto/Sasuke debate, I think Susanoo’s bow is a real problem for Naruto. Sure he has clone’s and cunning, but how far can those tricks go against the sharingan..?
    i had thought that the crossbow susanoo was going to be its final form, and so i also thought that rasenshuriken may be able to damage it… but now that susanoo will have yet another upgrade, i’m not so sure…

    @naruto elements discussion – I don’t really see kishi spending time drawing naruto training his wind element jutsu (any improvement there will be over a timeskip)… his only possible upgrades are the kyuubi, thunder god, or “that jutsu” which could in itself be an upgrade of thunder god…

    @Penny – Absolutely loved this breakdown, you were spot on calling sasuke out for his childish and misinformed criticism of kakashi for having the sharingan… I have really liked Sasuke as a character especially as he has become more dark, but this was a new low…

    Adding to what i said above, I don’t agree with your assessment that Sasuke is weaker than Naruto based on his perceived lack of maturity… He may act recklessly in his rage, but I think at this point he is so strong that he can afford to be reckless… Obviously, this ends with his vision. He will take Itachi’s eyes (madara will encourage it, and kishi has already shown us where this will take place, why show us it if we were not going to come back to it at some point?)
    On top of that he proved in his fight with Danzou that even when he appears to be reckless, he is, underneath his rage, still very calm and intelligent and calculating.
    I just can’t see much merit in the argument that Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, let alone with EMS(which he can obtain in the blink of an eye)… Next chapter will not be a real “rematch’ of the valley of the end, they aren’t fighting on equal footing…

    @subordinate characters discussion – I totally agree that all of the important side characters have kinda been ignored… I hope that this whole 4th ninja war thing will put naruto and sakura on missions with some of these side characters and place them back into the storyline… also, kishi, this sakura=heroine thing, i ain’t buyin…

  63. @Eugen: I totally agree with your Naruto-Sasuke comparison. Full recovered Sasuke is now one step higher than Naruto and I think it is what Kishi wants right now. If my memory is correct, Kishi has been showing us more Sasuke’s fight development than Naruto’s. I believe that next chapter the fight may be a draw, with Naruto taking a very little advantage due to Sasuke’s blindness or maybe with Kakashi aidding him, but I’m pretty sure Madara will save his sorry @ss in the last moment, just to send him a message that he must be more patient if he wants to suceed in his revenge/ help Madara out.

    After this, and if Sasuke uses Katon, making Naruto’s Fuuton worthless (some unexpected Fuuton attacks by Naruto sure would be awesome), he will have to develop another element and the only logical one for him to develop is Suiton. Remember, that in the manga Naruto and Sasuke represent Yin and Yang and so, in Kishi’s mind they complement each other, so I truly believe that the other element that Kishi might give to Naruto is Suiton.

  64. hi!

    few points here:

    -Penny, AWWWEESSSOOOMEEE breakdown!!!

    -super, i must agree with you kishi really is ripping off his female ninjas, the only place they are usefull is fillers (guren) and also i miss epic battles of other characters like sakura vs sasori that battle had me going crazy behind the screen!!! speaking of epic, wish rock lee would get serious airtime to display his might, i admired him alot pushing the only thing he can do (taijutsu) to the absolute limit.

    -anyone, wowzers!!! nobody went crazy cuz they almost saw karins boobs (note sakuras always healing there….. remembers hinata being healed…… hmmmmmmm -.-)

    -im glad this time naruto isnt ripped off and is at low power for once the tables are turned and it gives me deep satisfaction

    – and finally, correct me if im wrong but doesnt chidori physically increase your speed aswell? meaning sasuke could be on par with sage mode speed?

  65. OHHH YESSSS JUST REMEBERED!!!!! count temari in aswell with her fan she didnt get any airtime in the gaara abduction arc while kankuro did……….. kishi u sly sexist

    Sorry for the spam admins! (bows respectfully)

  66. @ adakias & Gamse what ever happens next one thing is for sure just as u guys said and i myself did sasuke will obtain a eternal sharingan after this little fight with Naruto, the idea that sasuke will be saved by Madara is the one we all have and as far as i know kishi always gave us a great surprise every chance and every opportunity like this presented, so maybe this will be the case again maybe sasuke will find a way out on his own and he will seek out madara for the eyes that’s probably a 100% fact.

    The only thing remaining is who will train naruto after this is over will it be kakashi will it be raikage and bee or will it be Pa frog.
    Frankly I don’t see what Pa & Ma can teach Naruto except for some really cool genjutsu, witch don’t get me wrong is awesomeness for naruto but i don’t see that happening.
    So will it be Kakashi or The Heavyweight champs of the cloud.
    Personally i have a bit of a prediction that maybe the two elders koharu & homura will get implicated in naruto’s training, they were after all hiruzen’s team and knew jyraia’s training so thus i deducted that they also knew about Minato’s skills. Maybe now since danzou’s gone they will finally lend a helping hand and do what’s wright for a change and give naruto some training (keep in mind this is a farfache’d ideea i came up with so not even i take it plausible). Sill the most important thing to Naruto now is just as “adakis” said is to learn full kyuubi control the flying thunder god and “that jutsu” and perhaps we can finally see the result of those kyuubi sage eyes we’ve been longing to see in action.

    Either then that he still needs to learn some basic things that will help him a lot like shape manipulation, from what i can see the way that sasuke made that big bag o’jutsu of his is because he leaned a great deal of shape manipulation like chidori senbon, nagashi, sharp spear and the rest of his katon jutsus too like the dragon’s he used against Itachi.
    With that said I think a easy thing like that will greatly improve Naruto’s arsenal and when he’ll obtain other elements it will be easier for him to make them evolve or what have u.
    That’s the most important thing naruto still needs, the basics.

    My best bet for the next element Naruto will gain is like u said “Gamse” the suiton, witch is very powerful and good for close as well as long range attacks and from what we saw during naruto manga so far is a good defensive element too thus the water wall.

  67. @eugen: you know now that u mention the elders, i wonder if danzo didnt manipulate them the whole time and made them decide what they did with his sharingan, that wouldve been sinister, its just weird to think that maybe they are actually nice people if their minds arent bent. but this also means sasuke solved his whole revenge by killing danzo (the root of evil) but obviously madara wont tell him that…….. he wants to further sasukes revenge

  68. Lol, where were all these Sasuke supporters before? XD I agree right now if Sasuke was at full power he is above Naruto’s level but not by much. Since the fight with Pein Naruto hasn’t done anything while Sasuke has been in many different skirmishes and 2 full fights. He’s blind now so obviously Naruto is stronger but when Sasuke gets those new pair of eyes he’ll be ready to go.

    Though by that time Naruto would also, hopefully, become stronger so only time will tell. As of right now Naruto is stronger because Sasuke is technically blind but I can’t say Naruto would beat him if Sasuke was at full power. I can’t say Sasuke would have an easy victory either.

    @Penny: Lol, posting links just makes your post all that more valid. 😉 Which is why I posted this link of Sasuke acknowledging Naruto’s strength and this was 3 years ago so his Uchiha pride isn’t all that big.

    Maybe nowadays he’s more prideful and haughty but there’s nothing showing he won’t recognize other people’s strength even now.

    @Adakias: Indeed, hate and emoness are Sasuke’s weapons. >(0_0)> The more he hates the stronger he becomes and even though he’s more evil he’s still a clever strategist as ever. So Sasuke is stronger than he ever was before thanks to envelopment in darkness as you were pointing out.

    Though, I don’t think Sasuke can receive EMS in the blink of an eye because it’s not something anyone can do easily. I do believe Itachi and Sasuke are special cases like Madara and Izuna and Sasuke will receive the EMS by taking his brother’s eye though.

    @Eugen: I’ll just add when Sasuke finds out Naruto embodies the will of the Senju so perfectly…

    Sasuke’s hate will grow and he’ll definitely want to fight Naruto. We all know how much Sasuke hates the Senju (the reason he wants to attack Konoha) and when Sasuke’s hate grows it’ll give him an even bigger edge in battle.

    I wonder what powers Naruto…love! 😀

    Oh, and Kakashi already redeemed himself by helping Naruto learn the FRS. He may have taught Sasuke chidori but FRS is 5x better.

    @Gamse: Exactly, I do believe Naruto just needs one more fight or some extra training in Sage Mode and he’ll be on Sasuke’s level. I can’t see how Sasuke would be stronger than Naruto after the time skip then Naruto fights a few people (admittedly strong people) and now he’s stronger than Sasuke? When Sasuke has fought even more people and who were also very strong.

    It just adds up to me that Sasuke is stronger. They both got upgrades, Naruto’s Sage Mode and Sasuke’s MS (BTW, FRS is a Sage Mode tech). I understand Naruto has gotten much stronger but Sasuke’s powers have increased too and just as much, if not more, than Naruto’s.

    And with all of that said, GO NARUTO!!! ^_^

    @Bakakage: YOSH!!! You’re right Temari was also screwed over out of her screen time! >_<

  69. @eugen and all who are supporters of Sasuke (of which I obviously am NOT!:

    My point has been, and will remain, that what Kishi is trying to show us is that strength has absolutely nothing to do with who has what incredible jutsu/dojutsu/kekkei genkai, etc. Strength has a great deal MORE to do with knowing how to use it, when to use it and to have the wisdom and maturity to realize the consequences of using those powers. In other words, to use some brains behind the “brawn.” My question on Naruto reserving judgment on his answer to Sasuke is, by far, a more mature move because he was impulsive in the past and often driven by his emotions – which drive the Kyuubi out of its cage uncontrollably. Now, he knows full well the consequences of the Kyuubi taking over and has the faith and confidence of his father – which boosted the confidence of our Yellow Sage greatly. And…he has also had the very strong teachings of Jiraiya who knew how and when to use the jutsu he had.

    Oh, and add that Naruto was looking for acknowledgment from everyone in Konoha from the beginning. He now has it due to his defeat of Pain. Since he has it, he’s no longer driven by that basic desire.

    Sasuke, on the other hand, was looking for strength to destroy; nothing else. He wasn’t getting “enough” from Kakashi’s teachings so he went off to learn forbidden jutsu under Oro. We all know that from the beginning – even in Naruto’s flashbacks in this chapter (the I’m an avenger comments). Oh yeah, he’s got Ameratasu and Susano’o. Chidori, absolutely. He’s got slick moves and taijutsu galore. But, does he use them wisely? He did before – now, definitely not. He is now the impulsive one and is showing that, although he was warned that he was about to lose his sight, he ignored the warning and had to find out the hard way. On top of that, the arrogance that I absolutely abhore from this clan survivor is well on display – I’m an Uchiha and you’re not. You are dirt because you aren’t…- and it is driving all of his actions. Sorry, that isn’t strength. That is pure emotion and he’s using any tech he’s got under pure rage and emotion without thinking/believing that his moves will produce consequences.

    So, who is stronger? IMO, Naruto by miles. It is a combination of maturity, wisdom, jutsu and quick thinking you only get in both training and in missions that is making him far more powerful. Naruto is driven by nothing more than protecting those he cares about and the village he loves. Sasuke? He’s lost that quick thinking edge – despite his best efforts to deny the obvious, he’s relying upon Madara to bring him closer to his goals, which is what Madara wants. Which is precisely why he has now gone blind…

  70. @ super You are wright kakashi did give naruto the rassen shuriken training but remember it was up to naruto to figure out the way to combine nature & shape manipulations into the rassengan a fact that kakashi didn’t know how to do for the technique. And by the time naruto found the answer be it from kakashi’s I can look left and right at the same time stunt it was still naruto’s own merit that got him that far and after that Naruto was training with yamato to develope the FRS witch wasn’t flying but anyway for a debate man such as yourself I know u will post a link to this proving a very dark, hidden and ominous fact to give u the edge in the discussion & that’s what makes you really great on this blog and probably the fact that u are the most well known person on WRA so the last thing i can add is BRING IT……..:P

  71. Because my previous posting was so long, I wanted to acknowledge another comment more succinctly:

    @Aeris: Your comments are some of the most genuine and very touching comments I’ve received regarding my writing. They left me speechless and, well, proud. Thank you. My goals in writing are these: to inform, to entertain (some), to give my honest opinions and to make you guys think. Oh, I have my opinions on Sasuke and Sakura, for instance, but they aren’t the only characters I have an opinion on. I look at things from a chapter-based perspective, along with past history. I also look at a character’s actions versus who they are (Sakura bashing and Sasuke bashing).

    And, never, ever, ever, do I believe in bashing others (my readers and fellow writers, especially) in my write ups. I may kid around about them but it is in pure affection and respect – and the fact that I know that they have their flak jackets on and can take it. 🙂 On top of that, I don’t believe in talking down to people. I certainly don’t like being talked down to as if I am an idiot and can’t imagine that you guys don’t like it either. I’ve read breakdowns by others in other blogs where people are talked down to and the overall tone was nasty and negative. That’s not what I want for my writings. I want them to be positive – even if I have a crappy one every so often.

    So, you wonder where I get the “grown up” perspective? It’s called RL experience and I hope that it is of value. You seem to think that it is. 🙂

    Arigato, my friend.


  73. Minato never ceases to amaze me!! I was roaming around the Naruto underground and I found something pretty interesting. Minato left Naruto another incomplete jutsu!! Yes along with the Rasenngan, he left him something else. Read this and onward until the conversation between Mr. Jirayia and the frog seal is done ( )

    It says that the seal Minato created was incomplete. Jiraiyia tried messing with it before because he was trying to perfect Minato’s jutsu but messed it up. So, now Jiraiya left it to Naruto to fix it. I think this is the Jutsu that would allow Naruto to control the Nine Tails!! I am really certain. Its as if Naruto’s dad and His teacher gave him all the tools he needed to defeat the Cursed uchicha because I think Jirayai also found a way to defeat the Amerterasu too!! ( )
    I know Jirayia found out how to combat those black flames at some pointe before his death. By some means has passed it on to Naruto!! Any opinnions on my findings!? I’d really like to know!!!

  74. @ everyone (for the record i posted this a few post’s up but i really want to hear everyone’s opinion on this)

    Kakashi’s jutsu might cause he’s left eye to go blind as well and probably at a fast pace. He might be at the brink of blindness right now given the fact that he used the jutsu almost 4-5 times now. I think the first time was against Deidara when he sent he’s arm in another dimension and after that he used it to transport the kamikaze deidara, and if i’me not mistaken he only used it afterwords when he saved he’s own life from pains’s nail and to save Chouji, and that took him to the death waiting station at the camp fire.
    So that means kakashi is good for about a couple of normal attacks and two Kamui attacks until he runs out of chakra.
    And if i’me not mistaken he ended up in the hospital after he disposed of deidara’s exploding clone so that means that my theory of kakashi being limited to just two Kamui must be about right. Let’s hope Kakashi still has a way’s to go before he’s light goes out.

    And might as well if i brought this up i had something that bothered me for a while, If a man like kakashi or Danzou for that matter replace the one eye with a spare after it goes blind seeing as they are not uchiha will it become eternal the one eye transplant??
    I really want to hear some theories from u guys on this because it really had me searching for answers for a long time.

  75. @Eugen: Lol, actually there’s nothing to counter because you’re right. Kakashi gave Naruto the direction and Naruto took the rest from there. I was just pointing out Kakashi trained Naruto like he trained Sasuke but the training he made Naruto undergo was to develop a superior justsu. In a way Kakashi has redeemed himself though we can’t really blame Kakashi for teaching his student (Sasuke) chidori back then. He had no idea he’d use it to try to take Sakura’s head off. XD

    As for Kakashi’s chakra supply he’s still got plenty of juice left. He’s been getting better with his Kamui the more he uses it. Sasuke has used Amaterasu, Tsukoymoi, and Susano’o far more times than Kakashi used Kamui so I don’t think he’s near blindness just yet.

    The only case of a development of EMS has been between two pure blooded Uchiha brothers. We can only speculate if a non-Uchiha with a implanted shargingan can just take another random sharingan, implant it, and get EMS. I highly doubt it can happen from the sounds of it though. Also it says it can only be done between clansman which Danzou (now deceased) and Kakashi aren’t.

    But we never knew a non-Uchiha could develop the MS so who knows?

    @Penny: Very well said, Sasuke isn’t in control of his emotions as he was way back when but that doesn’t make him any weaker. I too believe Sasuke spammed his MS like crazy but do we blame that on immaturity or necessity? Look at the opponents he had to fight within such a short span of time. The Raikiage, the Mizukage, the Kazekage, and the temporary Hokage who just wouldn’t die no matter what he did to him. He immediately pulled Susano’o out on Kakashi who is now the Hokage so basically he’s been fighting Kage level opponents this entire time. He also had to use MS to take down Killer Bee and that didn’t even really defeat him.

    In other words it was very smart and wise of Sasuke to pull out his MS techniques or else he would have been done for. Madara knew this which is why he set him up in the first place at the Kage meeting. He wanted Sasuke to use his eyes up to test them out. If we’re talking about knowing when to use your powers is what truly makes you strong then Sasuke is truly strong is he not? I don’t believe a chidori and sharingan level genjutsu would have been able to take down Kage level opponents personally.

    It’s like when Kakashi immediately used his MS against Sasuke to defend himself. If he didn’t use it he would have been dead.

    Yes, Sasuke is crazy, he’s rash, he’s hateful, and he’s vile but once again these emotions are what gives him power. The darkness that wells up inside of him literally give him power as I’ve already cited. It could be seen from this latest chapter actually when he got really mad at Kakashi and the perfect form of Susano’o started springing out.

    Sasuke is carrying the entire burden of the Uchiha hatred on his shoulders.

    It’s matured him in a completely opposite way than Naruto but it’s made him stronger there’s no mistake about it. I can honestly say Naruto is wiser than Sasuke in a sense that he makes better decisions. Sasuke going after all of Konoha is just stupid, it’s true. That doesn’t make Naruto stronger though. If strength is a combination of “maturity, wisdom, jutsu and quick thinking” then I say Sasuke has the upper hand.

    @Wiseman: I don’t know how to say this without sounded rude but yeah, I think we all knew this info already… The sealing jutsu Jiraiya used on Amaterasu is something that can be taught to anyone with the right scroll and skill level. I think the jutsu Minato left behind for Naruto to complete is full control of the 9 tails too. Like control over the seal.

  76. one more thing i want to add to the whole ems in kakashi’s, or a non uchiha for that matter, issue.
    the thing i’me most interested is what madara says here but there was another pannel i didn;t found yet were madara says something about the fact that only people that are non uchiha that have hidden abilities or powers can sustain a sharingan, and for sure kakashi is one of those people but what exactly dose kakashy have that is so special besides the sharingan, and i’me referring here of a kekeigenkai or hidden power strictly because we all know that kakashi has a world of thing to offer and much more.
    So pls “super” if u find it or if u remember it could u post the link with the panel.

  77. ok guys i’me off to bed because here in bucharest is 2:14AM and i’me up for at leat 29 30H and i really need some shuteye good night day or morning to you all and i’ll read u in a few hours 😉 :)).

  78. Hi guys! Noob comment!

    I’m literally hooked on this blog! Some of the ideas from everyone here are so interesting.

    Great breakdown!

    To throw my two pennies worth into the debate on who is stronger Sasuke or Naruto I would say, as much as it pains me as I dislike him a lot, Sasuke is atm. HOWEVER Naruto is only just behind and I still think Naruto could win a battle with him. But when laying out their jutsu and “trump cards” (MS, Sage Mode etc) Sasuke comes out on top…….just.

    But our Yellow Sage has such a greater scope to improve and become a heck of a lot stronger (and thats without “taming” the Kyuubi) that it is inevitable that he will leave Sasuke trailing in his dust!

    He has Sage Mode to perfect, his fathers jutsu to learn, another element to learn. I agree with the others when they speculated Suiton, this is most likely as his mother was from the former Whirlpool Country. Also his sage cloak was quality and that alone wins any battle! He needs to wear it all the time!

    Cant wait for the upcoming chapters! Epic awaits!

  79. Yes…. At their level right now with no handicap, Sasuke will pawn Naruto with all his MS techs. But given time, Naruto has unlimited potential because of his bijou and his ‘out of the box’ attitude.

    Also IMHO, Kakashi is not that strong of a Hokage. :-b


  80. Minato never ceases to amaze me!! I was roaming around the Naruto underground and I found something pretty interesting. Minato left Naruto another incomplete jutsu!! Yes along with the Rasenngan, he left him something else. Read this and onward until the conversation between Mr. Jirayia and the frog seal is done ( )
    It says that the seal Minato created was incomplete. Jiraiyia tried messing with it before because he was trying to perfect Minato’s jutsu but messed it up. So, now Jiraiya left it to Naruto to fix it. I think this is the Jutsu that would allow Naruto to control the Nine Tails!! I am really certain. Its as if Naruto’s dad and His teacher gave him all the tools he needed to defeat the Cursed uchicha because I think Jirayai also found a way to defeat the Amerterasu too!! ( )
    I know Jirayia found out how to combat those black flames at some pointe before his death. By some means has passed it on to Naruto!! Any opinnions on my findings!? I’d really like to know!!!

  81. EIGHTY-FIRST!!!!!!!! XD

    (goes off to read…)

  82. I left Penny speeeeechless, lalalalaaaaaaaaaaa!!! *huge grin* @Penny: Thank you so much for appreciating me appreciating you and your work 😉 It was such a ….. relief to read your breakdowns. 🙂 Yes, I think it really all comes down to growing up. Wait, didn’t Jiraiya say that as well once? *sigh* I miss him….

  83. I just had this crazy theory!!!!!!

    (It happened while talking to Deathcon4).

    I have been thinking about what happened to Kushina (Naruto’s mother) and why her fate has never been brought up. So I thought of the possibility of whether she might still be alive, but then there would have to be a reason why she has not shown herself.

    So then I though about Naruto and that half of the nine-tails chakra was sealed into him. But what about the other half? What if the other half was sealed into Kushina? O___O

    It would explain why she might have to stay in hiding. It’s just a theory but it’s quite an exciting and interesting one. ^ ^

  84. Great theory Tenrai!!!!! Really makes sense, all the way!

  85. @ Tenrai. I’me not trying to say u’re theory is wrong or anything but didn’t the other half of the fox’s chakra got sealed within the death reaper, like sarutobi did to the 1st & 2nd hokage, there souls were sealed into the reaper along wit sarutobi’s.

    So in the fox’s case that meant that half the fox’s chakra was sealed into the reaper after minato made the deal with it and after that the reaper took half of minato’s chakra too and the other half got sealed in naruto.
    So basically the reaper took half of minato and half of the fox’s chakras while the other half’s were sealed in naruto.

    At least that’s what i could figure out and it made sense to me.
    But the kushina theory u had is really interesting, because if what u said were to be true that would mean naruto and his mom’s eventual reunion could cause the two kyuubi chakras to react and try to reunite so it’s a really god theory.

  86. Speaking about naruto being stronger than sasuke some people in this glorious forum feel foor some reason they know enough to tell zetsu himself to the face that he is talking rubbish. If zetsu himself was able to say that and madara himself, an awfully acomplished shinobi could concur, then there must be certain qualities and potential jutsu/abilities they’ve seen in naruto that sasuke doesn’t have at the moment. I’m gonna stick with zetsu/madara and try not to argue much about it.

  87. Yea I still think nauto would win in a fight because he is cunning and has some of the best in battle smarts out there.

    Just if you layed out their respective moves and discounted their personalities and battle types you would say that Sasuke has more to his arsenal.

    But Naruto would win a battle because he would frustrate Sasuke with clones and out last him and then pwn him with a Giant rasenrengan!!

    I like the theory on Kushina. I just wanna know where she is! Maybe she’ll teach Naruto some of Minato’s techs, or maybe she has all the special kunai??

  88. @Eugen: I can’t seem to find or remember where it says something like, ‘Only people, that are Non-Uchiha, who have hidden abilities or powers can sustain a sharingan’. You said Madara mentions it? I’ll keep an eye out for it and if I find anything I’ll let you know.

    @Tenrai: Great theory and that’d make for an awesome storyline but like Eugen said I think Minato sealed the Yin chakra in the Shinigami.

    That brings up a good question though. Where in the world is Kushina and why isn’t she with Naruto if she is alive? Maybe Minato did seal the Yin chakra in her and she went into hiding so she wouldn’t hurt anyone by accident. Maybe she left because if the two chakra types were close they’d go out of control or something. Meh, or maybe she’s dead.

    @Wiseman: I think I addressed your post a few comments up. Just look 5 comments above yours and you’ll see.

    @Totalitarian: Yeah, that’s why we’re talking about the current story and not 30 chapters back (before the Kage summit). Sasuke has been in many more battles since Zetsu stated in his own opinion of Naruto being stronger.

  89. @ supertrek89

    I’m not entirely sure about this but I believe it has been mentioned that both Kushina and Minato died fighting the Nine-Tailed Fox. I know you like links and all but I’m not sure what chapter it was said in but I’ll go look for it myself. However I think it was mentioned somewhere near the beginning of the Naruto Series. I’m like 20% positive thats how it is tho 😀

    I believe Minato was the one that could summon the toads(you always see pics of her carrying the Toad scroll) and Minato performed the Sealing of the Demon.

  90. About the Sasuke vs. Naruto debate.

    The thing that I will say may feel a little out of place but I felt obliged to rant.I do believe Naruto is stronger right now and not because of stronger jutsus or battle smarts, though, they too play a big part, but because Sasuke has been given his most priced possessions without him needing to develop them by himself. Both the cursed seal and the MS were practically granted to him, while Naruto struggled with every step throughout learning each of his jutsus. I know Sasuke developed many techniques on his own but the ones that really made the difference and helped him through many dire situations, he did not.I am also well aware that some people will say: “Oh, but he is very good at using them.”, which is also true but think for a moment.Would he have made it this far on his own, without the help of Orochimaro and Itachi. For me his strength is not his own but rather a gift of others while Naruto worked hard for his accomplishments.

  91. @ to63to

    AGREED 😀

  92. Okay. Here is a very simple test for some of you who like to make points based on what has been revealed. Uchiha madara vs hashirama senju. Obviously we know hashirama always had the edge in strength even though they were rivals, but if we were asked to review their strengths based on what we’ve seen, everyone would gladly scream “madara”. They’ll tend to say, “i mean, what’s so special about mokouton? We only saw the first do one wood element jutsu afterall, so what is is that was special about hashirama’s wood that the EMS alongside the kyuubi could not defeat?” I feel like it’s the same thing with naruto and sasuke. Even though zetsu thinks naruto’s stronger for some reason perhaps yet to be revealed, most people would “jump” to sasuke’s defence because he screams like a pussy and next thing there’s susanoo jumping out of nowhere, and also they’ll say “oh sasuke has amaterasu and naruto is so stupid he wouldn’t be able to avoid it”. Then i ask myself “wait a min, how many people has amaterasu actually killed apart from subduing killerbee?”. I reckon it’s a constant battle between the senju and the uchiha, with the senju always coming tops (oh i bet some people forgot naruto had some senju thing going for him directly or indirectly). When the time comes, and sasuke releases susano or some EMS technique he’s mastered, naruto would smash it somehow or fling it with his sage mode like he did to that massive rhino summon from animal realm(just kidding, more like a figurative solution for naruto), or susano would look at naruto and tell sasuke “look here boy, why did you summon me to fight this monster”? Point being there’s no way sasuke would be able to win in a fight against naruto, even if they fought now with sasuke’s emo mangyekou intact. Zetsu thinks that, i also do. I mean the only thing that has changed since zetsu said that was sasuke upgrading susano which at the end of the day was always invincible. Danzou even showed us a little of what naruto would be able to do to susano. If danzou could reduce susano to it’s complete stage, how much more naruto in sage mode? he would rape susano, with tears in susano’s eyes crying out to sasuke to deactivate it.

  93. @to63to: You are most welcome. Together lets show them what a sage+kyuubi fusion would do to susano’s arse.


    Naruto dies saving Sasuke, his self-sacrifice will bring about a revolution in the ninja world just like Jesus self-sacrifice brought about a world-wide change. I know this is a long stretch but the more i read the manga the more I come to this conclusion.

  95. @ to63to & totalitarian

    I too admit that just as to63to said sasuke was given a lot more opportunities then naruto like the fact that he was always power hungry back when he went after oro for the curse seal witch was a great asset to him mostly for it’s healing power and after that he finally obtained his MS from itachi’s sacrifice, that for most ninjas would be enough, i men he knew what itachi was capable of and what jutsu were hidden in those eyes but the little brat still wanted more, the fact that he practicly jump at the task of capturing bee, witch in my opinion was only because madara promised him the hachibi’s power, Sasuke had to accidentally fire up amaterasu to figure out his true potential.

    But that still makes me think he would have a Small edge in a full battle against Naruto full strength wright now.
    Naruto’s best bet so far is a combination of sage mode, kagebunshin and that really cool battle smart he has going on lately.
    I know that everyone is gonna say “but what about SAGE-Kyuubi eyes”, I too want to see that in action but until now we have nothing to go on that except that it made konan and nagato shit in he’s wheelchair witch is a great thing seeing as NAgato in my book still is one of the most promising ninjas in Naruto Manga, a person Naruto would have had a very hard time ti beat without the katsuyu’s help and Pa & Ma’s intel on the bodies of Pain.

    If Naruto manages to activate those cool eyes of his there’s no doubt in my mind he can wipe the floor easily with sasuke but as he is now he will have it hard just as he did with Yahiko’s body to find a opening. Witch he was always able to find in his battles.
    i guess it’s a matter of personal opinion and for me sasuke was always that spoiled kid witch had it made from the start due to the sharingan, but he did trained hard for his power so that’s why i respect the emo, while naruto always had the atitude to never give up and worked like hell till kakashi gave him the opportunity to learn very fast due to his clones witch for me sort of matched the difference in how fast sasuke learned a tech compared to naruto.

    in my personal opinion a agree with Tenrai on the fact that when Naruto learns to fully control the kyuubi, and learns the flying thunder god along with itachis gift and “that jutsu” he will be the perfect ninja with virtually no flaw in battle.

  96. Speaking of the sage+kyuubi fusion in relation to the ying+yang combination, would anyone imagine that sage could be synonymous to the yin+yang combo? Perhaps the sage chakra regarded as the light/good chakra and the kyuubi, though having only the yang/light chakra in naruto, being generally regarded as the dark chakra simply because the kyuubi is meant to be evil. Seems to me the sage+kyuubi combo has some sort of reference to the ying+yang combo. Just a thought.

  97. @totalitarianhypnosis

    Nice idea you have there.It made me think-what if Minato left only half of the kyuubis’ chakra not only because he wanted Naruto to use it but also because he anticipated Naruto would learn sage mode and thus be able to combine sage+kyuubi chakra to a greater effect.

  98. @eugen: Funny enough, narutopedia recognizes and acknowledges the sage+kyuubi combo as a fusion, meaning naruto from the start never needed rely on fukasaku to fuse given how he had the kyuubi, and also that naruto was able to resist nagato’s chakra, something that had never happened before, and resisting it at close range. Even konan was impressed with that feat, saying, i believe, “who’s this boy”? That’s a sign of things to come, and i believe the moment naruto realises it’s possible sasuke would only be so much as a by-product of his fart.

  99. @ totalitarianhypnosis I guess all of this being said all we need to do is wait for naruto to blow our monitors away like he did when he battled Pain witch will be a sure thing to come.

    The fact of the matter is that Naruto has the most potential but kishi held him back a lot until the sage training and even now he’s a little behind, let’s just hope naruto is gonna start some training soon, and show us the real power of a Senjuu.

  100. @naruto vs sasuke debate:

    I know its a close call when comparing sage naruto to full powered MS sasuke (i still give naruto the edge ^_^) but if naruto pulls out sage-kyuubi mode then i dont see how sasuke could win.

    sage mode increases his strength, speed, stamina (as if he needs anymore), defence, gives an invisable extra reach to physical attacks, and adds another type of chakra
    we’ve seen what the difference between base naruto and sage naruto
    (goes from being above average shinobi to defeating the guy who beat hanzou who beat the three sannin in their prime)… pretty big difference i must say

    then theres kyuubi mode. it does everything sage mode does minus the extra reach. (im talking about 0 tails mode btw) there is also a huge difference between base and kyuubi mode (refers back to haku fight) im not gonna list every fight he uses it in. however i do believe sage mode gives a much bigger boost than 0 tails mode (otherwise there would be no need for sage training to fight pain)

    so when putting the 2 together the possibilities are never ending (since sage-kyuubi naruto never really fought nagato). the ONLY thing sasuke has going for him when fight naruto in this state is amataresu and susanno. with enough speed amataresu can be dodged (raikage) and i doubt susannos arrow is faster than black flames that appear out of nowhere.

    considering that naruto gets a boost in speed from both sage AND kyuubi, i believe his speed would easily match, if not surpass raikages. thus neutralizing sasukes 2 biggest weapons.

    then theirs susannos defence. danzou has already shown it has a weak spot. considering naruto is the one of the most unpredicable ninjas when it comes to battle, i think he could easily expliot that hole in susanno (please refrain from making a sex joke… even though i know someone will)

    so in conclusion i don’t see sasuke being able to take on naruto at his current level. sorry for th mile long post but naruto vs sasuke debates really get me going (no… no sex joke here either…)

  101. WOWZERS! just realised something while searching for a link! it amazes me to no end how far ahead kishi thinks note sasuke on a hawk….. LINK:

  102. @tenrai: i did some research, there is no fact stated of kushinas death BUT apparently she was a refugee from the land of whirlpool sooo maybe shes camping around somewhere there, i like your theory alot! it makes sense

  103. The problem most people don’t realise is that susano, like ichibi, is weak in the arse

  104. @kingtucker: Sorry matey, your point was more like an aphrodisiac i just couldn’t resist.

  105. its a sorry ichibi is weak in the arse cuz i quite like the ichibi amd wouldve liked to see more of it in action

  106. Oh and here’s what i just realised. The thing is susano is supposed to be a reflection of how awesome a ninja is. Take a good look at itachi. Given the prodigous and eventually ingenious ninja he was you could see the reflection in his susano. Sword of totsuka and yata’s mirror. Overall his susanno was overkill. Take a good look at sasuke. Now, like i said earlier, susano is a reflection of shinobi prowess. The thing is, given how sasuke likes to spout shit about revenge and all, his susano doesn’t hesitate to show that it’s weak in the arse, leaving me to notify that’s the only thing that stands out about his. I mean look at itachi’s susano. It sealed orochimaru’s hydra technique and orochimaru himself. What has sasuke’s susano accomplised apart from being raped from behind by danzou? That at least, even though danzou was obnoxious, is the only tribute i’ll give to him.

  107. @total: lol i knew someone would say something eventually. damn pervs >=)

  108. LOL! XD

    Ja, Sasuke was handed so many things in life and because of those tools he makes a great ninja. Aren’t all ninja handed tools (Knowledge, doujutsu, weapons, Bijuu, etc…) to gain power? Sasuke was given more than the average ninja throughout his life but so was Naruto. I find it funny how in a Naruto vs. Sasuke debate people mention the things Sasuke was given but Naruto’s gift is skimmed over as if it’s nothing.

    Let’s see. Sasuke was born with Uchiha blood thus the sharingan which he unlocked himself. Orochimaru forced the curse seal on him (which btw he doesn’t have anymore) and Itachi played Sasuke into obtaining the MS with a battle he planned from the start. Oh yeah, Sasuke looks really spoiled though he had little to no choice in all these powers he obtained. Naruto was forced to contain the Kyubi in his body and all its power and nearly limitless chakra supply. I think that evens it out quite a bit seeing as how it’s the 2nd strongest Bijuu.

    Who cares if they were given tools to help them throughout their journey? Yes, Minato gave Naruto the Kyubi’s power to make him stronger but guess what. Lol, that has nothing to do with who would win in their battle. Surely we’re not going to take away from Sasuke’s genius and fighting capability because he’s “spoiled” or Naruto’s hard work and fighting capability because of the Kyubi implanted in him. We should judge them both fairly and look at the difficulties they both went through to become as strong as they are today. Not what they were given and judge solely from there.

    What does Sasuke have that he didn’t work hard for? Did he not nearly die in his battle with Itachi falling unconscious immediately after the fight? Did he not develop the MS at an astoundingly fast rate after receiving it?

    Honestly no one can hold up the argument that Sasuke didn’t work hard for his powers in a proper debate. I won’t even go into detail because anyone who reads the manga knows Sasuke went through hell and back to get where he’s at right now. Of course Naruto works harder, that’s how he does things, and Sasuke’s a natural! >(0_0)> Doesn’t mean Sasuke just sits there and and grows stronger all day.

    As for the Naruto’s Sage+Kyubi Mode I guess people may have forgotten about this.

    I believe the reason Naruto and Sasuke make such great rivals is because they can cancel each others most powerful weapons out and fight back to basics. I believe what truly makes them both strong aren’t the sharingan or the Kyubi but their fundamental weapons and will power.

    Now if there’s one thing I think we all agree on it’s that Sasuke did rely on his eyes far to much which led to his demise (blindness). Just as Naruto relied on his Kyubi to much and he learned the hard way as I recall. He hurt Sakura, himself, and threatened those around him. Then he promised himself to not rely on it as much. Now it’s Sasuke’s turn to learn and he is learning the hard way just as Naruto already has done so. Though, I must say both Naruto and Sasuke relied on their innate power to battle very tough opponents who would have annihilated them otherwise.

    So what does this all have to do with who would win a Naruto vs. Sasuke fight? Lmao, I don’t know which is why I find all of this so funny. Sasuke being “spoiled” and him seeking power from Orochimaru (Naruto sought power from Jiraiya) has nothing to do with the battle actually but I wanted to defend him anyway. Perhaps you all want to make Sasuke look bad but he’s been doing that quite well on his own for years now. o_@

    @Total: Who “tends” to pick Madara over Hashirama when Hashirama beat him? Who calls Naruto stupid anymore and who doubts the power of Mokuton jutsu? Lastly, what does this all have to do with Naruto vs. Sasuke?

    I can see the comparison you made but Naruto and Sasuke aren’t the same as Hashirama and Madara. Naruto is the man that can change fate so this is a different rivalry than in the past and with different people. I think you and I both know Naruto doesn’t follow along the lines of “destiny” very well. Ah, and speaking of weak in the arse I think I know another ninja who has some vulnerabilities there and seeing as how Sasuke is “gay” he wouldn’t hesitate to strike. 😉

  109. @super: its true that sasuke supressed 0 tailed naruto back then. but naruto was lying on the ground not moving and looked like he could barely stand up. it has yet to be determined that a full healthy naruto on the move could be surpressed. not to mention the addition of sage chakra could make it even more difficult.

    in the heat of battle i doubt sasuke could supress the kyuubi the entire time sage naruto is all up in his face. doing that while trying to fight seems unlikly at best

  110. “they can cancel each others most powerful weapons out and fight back to basics”
    How does Naruto cancel Sasuke’s Sharingan or MS? Or to what are you referring vice versa?

    Amen, Supertrek. You speak the truth. I agree with you in every single point, except the one I quiestioned above.

  111. @supertrek: Points of correction matey
    – naruto was bequeathed with the most powerful bijuu, minus the juubi, which for now i reckon is unrealistic.
    – Naruto was given the kyuubi for a reason. Because the fourth, in his amazing wisdom, foresight and calculation, was aware he would eventually need the powers of the kyuubi to exterminate madara.
    – You say sasuke was a “genius” and didn’t have to work as hard as naruto for what he attained. Fair enough. I agree with the fact he didn’t have to work as hard as naruto, but genius? Deidara was right. Without his stupid sharingan he would have been shit. Ok fine i get it, you’re trying to say the sharingan is a ninja tool he was born with. I get that. But this little brat was given the mangyekou by itachi. And the brat overused it to the point where all he had to do was scream “revenge” and then susano jumps out like a little bitch. He is also going to transplant itachi’s eyes for the EMS. Overall verdict, overreliance on free gifts to support his bratty, emo arse.

    Naruto on the other hand was given the kyuubi. Fine, i understant that, but did you see how he had to slowly get accustomed to using the kyuubi? From the kyuubi’s chakra only to one tail, then three, then four, then six. It was something that was gradually, slowly and sequentially unlocked as he tended to grow stronger. So his use of the kyuubi was dependent on his level of strength, capacity and the levels of kyuubi chakra he could handle, which is something he had to work with over time. In sasuke’s case, it’s endless. He’s given the mangyekou and next thing he’s releasing amaterasu like piss, and blasting out susano like a trigger happy biker, or a kid who just jumps in class and starts spraying people. No process, no showing how he got to that level of using amaterasu, or even how he developed susano. He screams like a little twit on how danzou calls itachi’s name, and next thing susano’s complete? Common. he’s fighting danzou and next thing he does a hawk summon? No explanation on how he attained that? Common just accept he’s a spoiled little brat. Look how bloody hard naruto had to work for his summoning. Now you’re going to tell me sasuke is such a genius he can switch from snake summoning to hawk summoning without any sort of explanation? Common, we’re not a bunch of kids that would believe anything for a spoon of ice-cream. With naruto he’s coming so far with the kyuubi slowly giving the kyuubi reason to trust him because he’s coming a lot stronger. Everything naruto’s had to earn is as a result of his hardwork. Fine the kyuubi was given, but he’s had to grow with it. The only thing sasuke’s had to work with was his elemental natures. Everything else he’s been spoonfed like an annoying little brat that gives his mum so much trouble.

    And speaking of the Hashirama vs madara thing, it has everything to do with naruto vs sasuke because even madara himself struck the comparison. If you still need proof of this then i guess i’ll have to get to it. My point was, given that the only special thing we knew hashirama had was his mokouton, but he was able to defeat a probably spoonfed madara that obtained the EMS by having to pluck out his brother’s eyes, claiming it was for the protection of the clan like every cunning and cowardly villian out there. If madara, whom we knew to have the EMS and the kyuubi was pawned by hashirama whom we only knew to have the mokouton, then i’m saying that one’s jutsu arsenal alone isn’t enough to guarantee him victory in a battle like you seem to think for bratty sasuke who seems to have more jutsu in his arsenal than naruto. If you want more of my opinion just let me know ok?

    And please stop trying to speak for spoiled brats when they do not deserve to be spoken for. If you’ve never been with a spoiled, bratty and mannerless kid i guess you’ll not understand what i’m saying.

    Cheers though.


  112. Wow, now THAT’s someone who takes this really serious!!! 😀 Btw., I’m no different.


    “But this little brat was given the mangyekou by itachi.”
    => Hmm, either you mean something different, or you’re wrong. Itachi didn’t give it to him. Sasuke developped the MS because he “realized that he killed his best friend”. The way Itachi told us was the way to obtain the MS. And this was only possible after TOBI told Sasuke the ground truth. If it all went how Itachi planned it, Sasuke wouldn’t have obtained the MS after the fight with him

    “So his use of the kyuubi was dependent on his level of strength, capacity and the levels of kyuubi chakra he could handle, which is something he had to work with over time.”
    => Again that’s wrong. The number of tails does not have anything to do with his power but with his amount of anger and hate that lets him loose his temper and go wild. Of course we saw more and more tails during the story and Naruto got stronger and stronger during the story, but those are two different things.

    Overall, I find it interesting that you are angry at Sasuke himself for being such a spoiled brat that gets everything in the blink of an eye and without explanations (hawk summoning, Amaterasu & Susanoo and that fabulous control over those, etc…) instead of being pissed at Kishi who doesn’t tell us all those things.
    For me, it’s the latter. I’m not really pissed at Kishi, but I find it sad that he doesn’t take the time to explain some of those things.

  113. @eugen LMFAO ‘sage kyuubi eyes made nagato shit in his wheelchair’ that had me laughin for a while just now

  114. @ the Supertrek89 vs Totalitarianhypnosis my bad the Naruto vs Sasuke debate.

    Both u guys are absolutely wright, but Total has a stronger point of view weapons are weapons and powers are powers the both worked there asses of like crazy and they both sweated teared and shade blood for what they gained, no question there in that sense in believe they both worked just as hard. But the fact of the matter is, and i believe everyone can back me up on this, that Sasuke through his training gained 2x if not more then naruto did when they both struggled just as much now doesn’t that seem unfair for someone like naruto to work so hard and gain so little when a man called a genius for a capability that runs in the family obtained that same thing for much less work.

    Let’s face it, Sasuke is no genius he was just spoon feed all the way hard as it was for him he had everything handed to him like a map for suckers, now Itachi was a true genius a man who gained his straight through hard work and dedication knowng full well that the world need’s to be saved not destroyed, it was that mentality that made Itachi the best and he knew how tu use he’s tools, not recklessly like sasuke did, without any concern for the effect they will have on him.

    Most of us don’t hate sasuke for being great at what he dose because in my mind he’s really a great ninja worthy of being the best but the way he got here is just a shortcut most ninjas would kill for, and he has the nerve to insult kakashi like he did when he really should bow down to a man that really knew how to work with his tool and he adapted it to himself as his own, now that was jealousy from saskue because Itachi got to where he is now without taking shortcuts like he did.

    I guess there are a lot more things to be said on the matter but what i can say is sasuke is like the boss’s son, getting ahead in life without the necessary struggle that it takes to do so.

  115. sorry at the last part i meant to say kakashi not itachi, my bad.

  116. @aeris: Sorry matey, i don’t mean to be condescending, but what on earth are you spouting?
    Itachi didn’t give sasuke the mangyekou? Where does that come from? “sasuke developed the mangyekou because he realised he had ‘killed his best friend'”?
    Again, not to be condescending, but that is such a fart. Even madara in narrating the story of the uchiha to sasuke acknowledged itachi’s intention was to free sasuke from the powers of the curse seal and bestow the powers of the mangyekou upon him. About itachi not given him the mangyekou, i really wonder what manga you’ve been reading all this while.

    Now lets review what you said here.
    “=> Again that’s wrong. The number of tails does not have anything to do with his power but with his amount of anger and hate that lets him loose his temper and go wild. Of course we saw more and more tails during the story and Naruto got stronger and stronger during the story, but those are two different things.”
    Even you, out of oblivion, agreed with me. As naruto grew stronger he was able to release more tails. Please tell me, isn’t that what i was trying to say above? You, on the other hand my friend turn out to be quite wrong. The key to ever releasing the powers of the kyuubi, regardless of the tails, was his anger/emotion or on request. Meaning everytime he got angry, or requested it the kyuubi’s powers were released. The degree to what level of the kyuubi’s powers he could release, however, was dependent on how strong he was and his growing capacity to use them.
    Then you complain kishi did not explain to us how sasuke got these powers. That there is my point. If you’re not going to blame kishi for failing to show how he achieved his powers, why rush concluding he’s a genius? Ok lets compare sasuke and itachi. Itachi graduated from the academy at 7, was able to activate his sharingan at 8 and also was a chuunin at that age, became an ANBU captain at 13. Killed shisui himself to activate the mangyekou, learned to create genjutsu counters, control the powers of the mangyekou on his own, found the sword of totsuka and yata’s mirror on his own. Now for sasuke, learned to activate the sharingan at 12, always struggled to surpass itachi but ended up kissing his backside, was taught to use chidori by kakashi, ran off like a little pussy to orochimaru where he got stronger, was given the mangyekou and was never close to defeating itachi one bit(even madara confirmed this). Not saying sasuke isn’t a genius or has potential, he does. I’m just saying he’s been spoonfed more than he’s a genius.

    Looking at naruto he was taught the rasengan by jiraiya, a bigger one as well. Also learned, with kakashi’s great assistance of course to add an elemental nature to the rasengan, something jiraiya and the fourth and even kakashi could not accomplish. i believe kakashi’s exact words after he achieved that feat was “you’ve surpassed me, naruto”. But of course you’re going to say “oh kakashi means ‘you’ve surpassed me in that jutsu'”, so i guess that wasn’t even important in the first place. Not just that, he was taught sage mode, agreed, but he took it to the highest level, becoming the first person out of everyone, including jiraiya, who had signed up for sage training to master senjutsu. Even taught himself to fully master the rasen-shuriken in sage mode without pa knowing.

    I think you can come before me when you get your facts right. Again, not to be condescending.


  117. Sasuke is just about on par with Naruto in the amount of hard work he’s done to become who he is. There is almost always something similar in the past that has set these two rivals at odds.

    But who has worked harder for what he has?

    The reason this is so hard to answer is because both of them are on par with each other in this too. Sasuke and Naruto have both worked extremely hard for what they have. Even though the two characters are very different now, both have been given special gifts as well.

    MS might not even apply to this argument. Those powers were “unlocked” as sharingan powers often are. Any sharingan powers are a right of his birth and cannot be sensibly added to this argument. To get more and more power from the MS he had to go through battle after battle, almost killing himself in the process. If that isn’t hard work, then I don’t know what is.

    So I mostly agree with Supertrek. Both have worked hard and been given gifts and tools, not to mention special training from special teachers.

    I’ll add something to the Naruto gifts. The first cool thing Naruto ever learned was from a forbidden scroll that wasn’t supposed to be used. Yeah, he worked hard to learn it from the scroll, but holy sh*t what a nice power to have from the get go! He would not have been able to do it if not for the strange circumstances.

    I also wanted to add points to Sasuke’s hard work. Remember when he learned the fireball jutsu for his father? Started from scratch and gained expert skill in it with hard work.

    You can find more examples if you try.

    So I don’t think it’s necessary to call these characters ‘brats’, but if Sasuke is a spoiled brat, then so is Naruto.

  118. i was going to add, naruto mastered the rasengan in a week, and not just master the rasengan was also able to teach konohamaru the rasengan and shadow clones jutsu. That there, is more than genius, when you’re able to not just master what’s been taught to you but also teach and impact the knowledge gained to someone else.

    The reason why sasuke can even have susano come out like a little sissy when he screams, and shoot amaterasu like a trigger happy sociopath is because itachi had them and passed them on to him. if itachi never did he would not have screamed like an arse and have susano jumping out like a shitkicked slave at his beck and call.

  119. Naruto Will find a way to save Sasuke with-out killing him! They will fight! But just like he learned with Pain, he knows he can’t find peace in the Ninja world by killing his best friend.. Also, Sasuke didn’t kill Naruto to get his power he spared him to find another way. Naruto will do the same!!

  120. lol what happened to the naruto vs sasuke debate?

    i have to agree with super in that who did the most work has NOTHING to do with who would win the fight.

    yes sasuke seems to pull random s### out of his arse without any explination way more than naruto does. but just like aeris said you should be mad at kishi for that. not sasuke

    that being said its quite obvious that naruto works harder to obtain his powers more than sasuke. which is why everyone wants to see him put emo boy on his arse ^_^

    so who cares that naruto did more work? if it irritates you that he did then that should be more reason for you to want him to win right? so can we please get back to the ACTUAL naruto vs sasuke debate? im much more interested in that one

  121. @ Gavin if u read my last post you would see that i’me down with almost everything u said but one thing.
    What separates Naruto from Sasuke the most is the fact that While the both worked that hard Sasuke gained a lot more than Naruto did so in fact is Sasuke who is the favorable one witch is the whloe essence of this whole debate.

    We all agree that sakue+naruto= same amount of hard work
    saske+naruto= very great masters to pass them great jutsu.
    sasuke+naruto= hard filled life with dramatics either way.

    But what separates them off is the fact that sasuke acomlishes things faster then naruto and that is what pisses the saskue haters off the most. And probably his a$$hole attitude either then that in my book sasuke is a great man and a great ninja just as naruto.

  122. @ kingtuckerviii great pace bringing dude, this WRA debates between Total and Super sure drag u in like a Susanoo black hole.
    Sorry for the CRACK joke i couldn’t help it :))
    Anyway thx for the “snap-out of it” post kingtuckerviii


    For those who’re gonna sit all day and argue that sasuke was not given the mangyekou by itachi. The mere fact itachi planned out every detail of the fight so he could die at sasuke’s bratty feet techniquely means he awakened his mangyekou, hence gave his life in order that sasuke has the mangyekou.

  124. @Eugen: haha like a moth to a flame. and DAMN! im trying to get a paper done while keeping up with this isn’t fun either
    …must….resist…. cant….stop… arguing… @_@

  125. And please those of you who keep thinking i’m not including the fact that sasuke worked for anything, please listen carefully.

    Sasuke, i’ll have to admit is a genius in terms of his potential. In terms of what he can achieve, the things he’s worked for, and the fact he has a lot of potential. Naruto as well is also a genius, more like a hardworking genius and also in terms of potential. It’s not everyday you get to see babies who can withstand the kyuubi’s chakra in their bodies. Means his chakra is special to be able to resist the kyuubis chakras.

    Sasuke has had to work for some stuff. He showed some level of determination and hardwork learning chidori and katon jutsus. Also training his sharingan to impressive levels. The reason i keep calling sasuke a brat is for the following reasons.

    – his condescending and proud personality which disgusts me so bad i just wanna piss everywhere.
    – the fact he’s been given certain powers without having to show how he attained them, and still feels like he’s the strongest ninja ever, strong enough to make silly suggestions like “i’m going to crush konoha and all that nonsense.”
    – the fact people tend to think he’s a genius sometimes at naruto’s expense, when naruto has shown just as much potential as a genius as well through hardwork, being able to achieve things and surpass his predecessors by achieving even more, and also teach konohamaru what he’s learned. E.g. the rasen-shuriken which kakashi and the fourth could not achieve, and also sage mode which jiraiya could not complete.

    So i do think sasuke is a genius. I just think that when that is over-emphasized like some people tend to do in oblivion, and at the expense of naruto, then he becomes a little brat spoiled not just by kishi this time, but also by people in this forum.

  126. @kingtuckerviii: I wouldn’t say Sasuke suppressed the 0 tails but instead I’d say he suppressed the Kyubi in general so Naruto couldn’t bring it out at all. While it’s true we have no evidence Sasuke could do it again we have no evidence that he couldn’t do it again. While Naruto may have strengthened is defense against the sharingan with Sage Mode let’s not forget Sasuke’s sharingan has gotten a major upgrade to Mangekyou Sharingan.

    @Total: Congrats on the Sasuke bashing but what have you proven really? I can see your post is full of hate and anger towards Sasuke, lol, and I’ll give you credit for making me laugh at the string of name calling you managed to put together.

    As for your points of corrections they don’t actually correct anything.

    -Naruto was given the 2nd most powerful Bijuu (Kyubi). Just because you think the Juubi is unrealistic doesn’t make my point moot.

    -I know Naruto was given the Kyubi for a reason which I stated. It was to prepare him for the fight with Madara and overall make him stronger as I said.

    -It’s true I do say Sasuke is a genius but so does the manga.

    I could find more but whatever. The fact is Sasuke is a genius and I see now you agree, but I believe you’re giving to much credit to Sasuke’s sharingan and not the man himself.

    Remember a tool is only as good as its user.

    You also say Naruto had to slowly get accustomed to the Kyubi? Oh, you mean like Sasuke had to develop his sharingan from one tamoe, to 2, then to 3? It’s like Aeirs points out as I have in the past. It’s Kishi showing Naruto’s development more than his other characters and it’s because Naruto is the protagonist. Even Madara remarked he doesn’t know where Sasuke got the hawk summoning. Kishi didn’t show it. You can complain at Sasuke all you want but he doesn’t draw the panels.

    I would love to hear more of your opinion Total. >(0_0)>

    @Eugen: I don’t believe Sasuke was spoonfed everything as you keep saying. Remember his entire clan was murdered so who was their to spoil him? As Gavin pointed out at such a young age who spoonfed him this jutsu?

    That’s hard work right there. Even the current Sasuke still works hard to develop his jutsu. Yeah, he was given MS but he fought for it and he fought with everything he had almost running out of chakra. From that fight he gained MS like from training Naruto gains his jutsus. I don’t see how Sasuke is spoiled from any of this.

  127. @super: yes id say they both have recieved relativly equal power ups so to speak but my main point was the fast paced battle.
    if naruto is attaking sasuke with FRS and sasuke uses susanno to defend do you think he could consintrate enough to supress the kyuubi? just a random example but i don’t believe he could do it unless naruto was in a weakened state like he was before

  128. @King: Well that’s to be determined. We don’t know how much control Naruto has over Sage+Kyubi Mode so we don’t know if Sasuke even has to concentrate on suppressing the Kyubi if Naruto can’t bring it out at will. The only instance Naruto has done the temporary fusion of chakra is when he was extremely pissed at the man who killed his master.

    Also Sasuke’s seems to be working on a new Susano’o now which may nullify the weakness Danzo discovered in the old one. In all honesty though you know who’s truly the stronger one right now? I said it in my first post regarding the Naruto vs. Sasuke debate. It’s Naruto because Sasuke is nearly blind. Naruto could just using Kage Bunshins and start talking all at once just to confuse the poor guy. XD

  129. super don’t get me wrong man it’s not that i don’t acknowledge sasuke’s effort in learning, it’s just the fast way he dose it via it’s sharingan, even if he works hard the effort with witch naruto would have gained the same jutsu is bigger and i guess u’re gonna come back to the tool part of the discussion and there will be no end to this.

    I know the both work just as hard i said it before but naruto in my opinion works more then sasuke dose and that’s probably the whole point of this, witch ultimately means sasuke is a faster learner then naruto but only for the sake of his sharingan.

  130. @super: i was refering to a fully powered, not-blind sasuke. to me it would seem completely ridiculous for sasuke to be able to just supress it without any trouble at all. and naruto can draw the kyuubi chakra on his own as seen in his fight with neji and gaara. doing it in sage mode would be no different since all he has to do is ask the fox for it.
    but yes it also happens when he’s angry too ^_^

  131. Ah, but he learned the Katon jutsu at such a young age and before he awakened his sharingan. Also, this jutsu wasn’t even supposed to be possible for him years later and as a genin.

    In my opinion Naruto actually works harder than Sasuke ever has and that’s why he’ll surpass him. I don’t think Sasuke could take on the exhaustion of 1000 clones all training at once…well Sasuke wasn’t granted the extra chakra of the Kyubi either but meh. I’m not going to say Naruto has only gotten strong because of the Kyubi. 😉

    @King: Lol, I know I was just having fun. =_+

    If Sasuke can’t suppress the Kyubi to some extent then wouldn’t a Sage+Kyubi combo make Naruto ridiculously stronger than Sasuke? A boring fight that would be and I don’t think Kishi would do that. I believe the reason Kishi made the sharingan a tool to control the 9 tails will play an important role in future Naruto vs. Sasuke fights (hoping there’s at least 2 more). It may seem cheap if Sasuke could suppress the 9 tails like he did before but on opposite side of the spectrum it’d be cheap if Naruto could use Sage Mode + the power of the Kyubi with no restraints.

  132. also, naruto seemed like he did the chakra fusion on his own in that chapter.

    he purpously let himself get stabbed. now nagato had fought sage mode a good deal now so he was pretty confident that at that range he could control him. and if naruto could have done it with only sage chakra he probably would have, thus he couldnt so he tapped into the kyuubi chakra as well. yes the anger might have triggered it but the panels suggest that naruto planned it.

  133. So… There are a few questions being argued right now.

    Naruto vs. Sasuke:
    Who worked harder to get what they have?
    This seems to be tied so far or irrelevant.

    Who would win in a fight at full power?
    I’m thinking Naruto would win because Sasuke isn’t fully trained with his potential MS powers, and he is blind.

    Is Sasuke a ‘spoiled-brat’?
    Not in my opinion. Characters in the story might think so, but Sasuke’s character has a pretty terrible set of circumstances that defines his behavior.

    Compare it with Naruto. You’ll see that if you are able to call Sasuke a spoiled brat because of how he acts, then you have to say the same about Naruto about how he acts. They are both stubborn and righteous. Like described in the manga, they are two sides of a same coin. Sasuke is ‘might’ and Naruto is ‘love’. Where love and might are two different beliefs on how to attain peace. Madara explains this in chapter 462.

  134. @super: lol it does. and he is ^_^ the thing that gives sasuke a chance are the all powerfull MS and its jutsu’s. i mean if we were to compare physical abilities sage-kyuubi naruto rapes sasuke on all fronts. but the offensive and defensive powers of the MS give sasuke a chance to..sorta.. fight on equal terms.
    but when they do fight for real they will have developed even more. (EMS and THAT jutsu involving the kyuubi) but as it stands now… yeah i think sage-kyuubi naruto is almost overkill

  135. I keep forgetting to say this. Sasuke cannot suppress Naruto’s Kyuubi chakra.

    This opinion is mostly due to the Sasuke vs. Killer Bee fight. If Sasuke could have suppressed the biju chakra, he would have.

  136. @super from about 12 hours of comments ago:

    Sasuke may be driven by emotion and it is giving him power…but is that “true” power? I realize that Sasuke had to pull those trump cards out of his sleeves to save his hide. That’s a simple defensive tactic. Geez, I wasn’t suggesting that he stand there like a total baka waiting to be attacked! What I was arguing and that some people have missed is that Sasuke’s power, though substantial, is not what would make him powerful. The reason why Danzo got under his skin was that Danzo was arguing that Sasuke was merely tossing away his inheritance – the Sharingan. In essence, Danzo called him on his arrogance, pride and his total reliance upon his Kekkei Genkai (never mind the reason for using them – pure rage). It is a combination of things that make strength and power. Sasuke missed that boat a long time ago…

    @Gavin: you honestly think that Sasuke’s NOT acting like a spoiled brat? you argue that his character’s circumstances define him. That’s all well and good but there are other characters whose circumstances are far worse in many respects (Kakashi, Naruto, Yamato) yet don’t have that horrendous arrogance that is associated with their characters. To chide someone over having an ability that came through no fault of his own – a prized kekkei genkai – is nothing short of spoiled, immature and arrogant. On top of that, Sasuke knew Kakashi had it – for years. What has happened to Sasuke is simple: brainwashing from a very bitter, very charismatic leader of the Uchiha, Madara.

  137. @Gavin – I’m not following your logic here… First you pose the question, “who would win at full power?” but go on to include sasuke’s blindness as a factor… aren’t we assuming his acquisition of EMS for the purpose of this debate? Since he can very easily obtain it…

    @super, I think you said a while ago that he couldn’t get it that quickly, however, I think madara has the ability to do the transplant himself (i.e. without kabuto or medical nin)… If he is able to remove an eye (i.e. Danzou’s) easily (which he was prepared to do) which is just as difficult a procedure (not damaging it etc.), why couldn’t he also implant that eye?

    @Gavin(again) – I think the uchiha have only the ability to suppress/control the kyuubi specifically, every time they reference that ability they specifically say it applies to the kyuubi… am i wrong? super, links? 🙂

  138. @ what gavin said about the suppressing the chakra, @ everyone, remember the kyuubi was under seal and only a small part came out of the cage to speak to naruto so basically what sasuke suppressed was Naruto’s chance to take chakra from the kyuubi not it’s power per say at least that’s what i think, but saying that reminds me of the fact that kyuubi did say he was suppressed by sasuke here

    But i still keep to my theory that it was only a very small part that leaked out witch sasuke manage to subdue.

  139. You may be right about the Kyuubi thing. Maybe it is just the Kyuubi chakra that he can suppress? I’ll look into it a little bit.

    The logic on the first question is sound. Even at starting at full power, consider that Sasuke’s vision is almost completely gone. When I said full power, I think we have to take into account his current blindness. What if Sasuke had no arm? Would you want his arm back for the match up? And as for the EMS – he clearly doesn’t have it right now. This is all based on the manga as it stands now.

  140. @penny – I completely agree with your argument as to why Sasuke is spoiled… I would put it this way: He, like a “spoiled brat,” believes he is entitled to things to which he is not… He thinks the uchiha were basically removed from power in the interest of non-uchiha. Thus, he is owed revenge, he is owed power. So, I think Naruto will try to talk to him about the greater consequences of his revenge; much like Nagato forced Naruto to change his perspective about how the ninja world maintains peace at the cost of the smaller nations, Naruto will confront Sasuke with the perspective of those that bear the brute of his revenge that never committed any crimes deserving of it…

    Also, I could be wrong, but I think that the fundamental disagreement you present operates on a different level than the discussion we are having. When you use words like “strength” and “power” they don’t refer to fighting abilities. Yes Naruto is of stronger character and has greater will-power, but is he more powerful in battle? Don’t you think it important to make this distinction and keep these separate? Kishi does. Don’t you think he plays naruto up as an underdog, as far as fighting ability goes, whenever he can, and its better that way?

    @Gavin – The arm analogy doesn’t work, its not replaceable when his eyes are… Also you assume this blindness is permanent, didn’t Itachi also experience some blindness after use of MS, but then regained his vision with rest? I think the blindness is temporary, but will scare sasuke into taking his brother’s eyes…

  141. @adakias: Along with what Eugen said. I think the sharingan is not specific when it takes over and controls a biju or summon animal. It seems that it’s not specific to certain kinds of chakra either. I think Naruto uses the Kyuubi chakra that he is given and because it is Naruto’s chakra to use at that point, it is not suppressible by sharingan. However, it seems that sharingan let Sasuke get into Naruto’s subconscious. But, that alone wouldn’t stop Naruto from getting chakra from the Kyuubi.

  142. @adakias: I think you misheard what I was trying to say. I’m not assuming anything. I didn’t say that he wouldn’t or would get his eyesight back. I just think if his blindness should be taken into account in a fight if you want to consider the current state of the manga. Sasuke is somewhat blind at full power. I thought Itachi was blind for a very long time. He never gets his eyesight back does he?

  143. @super – “Though, I don’t think Sasuke can receive EMS in the blink of an eye because it’s not something anyone can do easily” that was you from a bunch of posts up… I’m saying that if Madara has the skills to remove an eye, isn’t it plausible he can also implant one?

    About the spoiled issue – When Naruto confronted Nagato, after hearing Nagato’s story, Naruto thought about the nature of revenge and decided NOT to kill Nagato. He was “owed” the same revenge as sasuke for his master… But Naruto decided that that revenge was not owed to him, his revenge being realized was not the only favorable outcome; it was not the only righteous action to be taken. For Sasuke, revenge, he believes, is morally acceptable and is the only justified conclusion to this story, he deserves it.
    Am I making sense, or further muddling it… maybe your right and there just isn’t enough evidence for this conclusion, but this is the thinking that got me there and is the impression i get from sasuke’s character.. thoughts?

    @gavin – i think its just too obvious of a conclusion to say naruto wins if we count sasuke as blind, kills the debate… I thought the debate functioned best as a consideration of a near future fight with each fighter receiving a clean bill of health…

  144. @super i agree sasuke is not spoiled. thats just the wrong word. He is acting very arrogant but he has always been that way. I doubt sasuek will learn from this battle not to throw his powers around but to aquire itachis eyes so he can demolish people like this all the time. Of course im a little confuse what madara wants with sasueks eyes knowing eh would go blind… o well. All i know is sasuke thinks breaking things is the only way to solve and issue (as of late) so i doubt him losing his eye sight will change that considering he already knew the risks of using his Ms too long and still did it.

    @adakias the eyes sight does not come back. This is actual blindness not blurry vision. Itachi did not use his MS to this extent in such a short period of time so he never was completely blind. Sasukes eyes are blind and no amount of rest can fix that.
    Thats what madara meant when saying your eyes have almost lost their light.

  145. @adakias: I read back to Sasuke vs Itachi and it seems like Itachi has some of his eyesight there. But he does lose it for good later in the fight.

    You’re right about the Naruto vs. Sasuke debate. I thought my answer was obvious, but it may be more of a healthy debate if we consider that Sasuke has replacement eyes. Then we can talk about all the rest of their powers.

  146. Ah, I see. Yeah, he can implant Itachi’s eyes into Sasuke but I’m just saying it’s not a guarantee Sasuke will receive EMS.

    “And simply gaining another’s eyes didn’t equate to gaining his power.”

    So it’s no guarantee EMS would awaken even if you did the eye transfer. Of course I believe the chances are very likely that Sasuke will gain EMS if he’s implanted with Itachi’s eye. I’m just saying it can’t happen “in the blink of an eye”. Lol, puns…

    I believe Naruto didn’t seek revenge because he wanted to stop the cycle of hate. It has nothing to do with whether he thinks he deserved it or not. In the end he never forgave Nagato actually. I personally believe that there are times when it’s right to avenge someone. Sasuke lost his clan and Naruto lost his master. It’s a personal choice of whether or not you take up vengeance and Naruto was able to hold back. You notice though that Sasuke has lost much more than Naruto.

  147. @fuuton – “This is actual blindness not blurry vision.” I just think this is yet to be seen… And I don’t conclude much from madara’s use of figurative language; you could be very correct about itachi, but kishi never shows us his development of MS… Not really discounting your opinion, just I think the issue is still unresolved…

  148. @gavin: What are you talking about. Naruto a spoiled brat? Are you one of those who just loves letting out a massive fart? How on earth is naruto a spoiled brat? Someone who had to work his way up from being hated because he had the kyuubi to being loved because he was strong enough to defeat pain is not a spoiled brat. Naruto has worked his way up everything. From friendships, aquaintances, jutsu, company, he has proven that one can change his destiny despite the hardships and difficulties they face. He has also proven you don’t need to sit back on your predicarments and lament on how life’s treated you harshly. For someone who grew up being despised and hated, his ability to motivate and change people is devine, a true senju, fire to impact positively in the lives of others. Even i would proudly say i’ve learned a lot from naruto. With sasuke i’ve only learned to “piss everywhere” when i’m frustrated with his emo arse.

    Please be a little more reasonable.

  149. @totalitarianhypnosis: Just who is being unreasonable?

    I said I don’t think either of them are brats, but maybe I have a different definition of brats. I’m just saying that I put Naruto and Sasuke on the same level of stubbornness and righteousness.

    Just like Sasuke argues about how his family is gone, Naruto argues that he will become Hokage. If Sasuke is a brat then, so is Naruto.

    And now that you bring it up… *fart*

    GAH, you’re stinking up the blog!!! XD


  150. @Gavin: I’m a little curious. What does naruto “arguing” that he’ll become hokage have to do with his being a brat Are you by any chance implying he can’t achieve being a hokage? Someone who told a hokage to sit somewhere and have a cup of tea while he bashed the six paths of pain is absolutely kage level and could be hokage.

    Yet again, another fart being let out. You really must be having fun with this, Gavin.

  151. Okay, for the rest addressing me:
    Of course I believe the citation
    But, if we see it clearly, that actually shouldn’t make sense in the first place. After all, Sasuke DIDN’T kill Itachi, he just watched him dying as Itachi’s death reason was his mysterious illness and not one of Sasuke’s jutsus.
    So, the initial rule we knew (“You must kill your closest friend”) does not work after all. I always thought about Sasuke obtaining the MS like this: He only received it when he realized and believed the truth, namely that Itachi was one of the good guys and only because of THAT his best friend. Because, if he didn’t learn the ground truth: would Itachi still be Sasuke’s best friend? I think that would not make much sense because Sasuke would have kept on hating and detesting him. So why should the MS awaken if he a) didn’t kill and b) he wasn’t even his best friend?

    Again: The number of tails does not have anything to do with his power but with his amount of anger and hate that lets him loose his temper and go wild. That was what I wanted to say. It’s simply the fact that he was angrier when he pursued Deidara because Gaara was dead (2 tails), angrier when he met Orochimaru (3 and then 4 tails) and even angrier when he thought that Hinata died (6 up to 8 tails). That’s just what I wanted to say because I think it works like this and it has NEVER been said that Naruto can control the number of tails he grows. If so, then the “losing control” theme would be really senseless.
    If you want to say that these words of mine are “fart” or whatever, then so be it… unless you didn’t want to sound condescending 😉 .

  152. @aeris: ok, seems i should clarify what i said earlier.
    When i talked about naruto’s use of the kyuubi being dependent on his capacity and strength i did not imply he could control the number of tails he used. i implied he was able to attain certain levels obviously because he was able to attain his limit to the number of tails he could use. The mere fact he could attain these levels are proof he was growing stronger. I believe in part one he never would have thought of releasing 3 tails. Gradually, he began to attain certain levels(number of tails he could use), though by emotion/anger. My point was if he wasn’t strong enough to handle six tails i don’t believe he would have attained that.

  153. @Fuuton: I don’t think Sasuke is blind just yet. You can see he notices the outlines which distinguish Kakashi.

    Plus you can see him staring at Naruto though barely.

  154. @totalitarianhypnosis: In your example of Naruto is exactly the cockiness that I’m talking about. He just shoves everyone aside and says basically, “I got this”. Yes, he is very powerful and defeated Pain after that. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a cocky brat. It just means he can back his sh*t up.

    Look, I know your sentiment here. I happen to like Naruto’s character. The way he said he would be Hokage someday was endearing. And maybe Sasuke’s goal of killing his brother wasn’t so endearing. Maybe that’s the difference you are looking for. But, seriously, it’s not the level of bratiness (not a word), cockiness, or righteousness – you are talking purely about likability.

    @Supertrek: Don’t worry, my farts smell like roses.

  155. @Eugen, when he says that he means that the Mokuton is what allows Danzo to use that many Sharingans (most likely because of the chakra the Mokuton supposedly offers)

  156. I liked Naruto’s entrance but Sasuke really should’ve collapsed by now (Possibly died) hence Kakashi’s death experience when he ran out of chakra. IM DAMN SURE SASUKE DOESN’T HAVE THAT MUCH CHAKRA to use susanoo like that… He used Tysukiyomo(not as advanced as said by Danzo) I’m not sure if that was exactly tysukiyomo but that is what was stated. But he used Amaterasu more than once. He used chidori countless time. He summoned a damn hawk, used Susuanoo way more than twice and i’d be damned if its “his anger that drives him”… that’s total bullshit so all of a sudden you have a bottomless bucket full of chakra!? Shit then Pein(Nagato) should’ve been the same, but hell naw even the god Nagato was nere death using so much chakra on Konoha and Naruto. All Sasuke get is almost total blindness…

    Kishimoto also fucked up in time of jutsu. For instance, Sasuke vs Deidara. HOW THE FUCK DID HE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SUMMON MANDA AND CONTROL HIM AND THEN CLIMB INSIDE HIS MOUTH, ALSO CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT MANDA SHOULDV’E BEEN OBLITERATED WITH DEIDARA’S HUMAN BOMBCARDE. Also, if Susuanoo’s arrow(sasuke’s susuanno” was to fast for Kakashi to dodge, how did he have enough time to activate his mangekyou, concentrate his kamui and warp the jutsu. That seem’s about enough time to use a substitute or get out the way.

    I could go on and on about timing, but also, with power. I think Kishi completely forgot about Sasuke’s “god speed”.

    I sure as hell never seen that speed again after that

    Oh look its speed galore -___-…

    I kinda agree with Sasuke on EVERYONE just going inside wal-mart to buy a sharingan eye off aisle 12. I mean it is a proud power of the Uchiha and like everyone just stole the power. Even still the sharingan is over-rated, i mean like it’s supposed to be as equally powerful as the Byakugan but I don’t think the Byakugan can face off with the sharingan anymore.
    I still want to know where all this chakra came from because he sure as hell is not a jinchuuriki.
    SASUKE YELLED “BRING ITACHI BACK” I would’ve personally made it my reason to fight him, just to slap the hell out of him for saying such a dumb thing. Itachi died fighting you DUMBASS.At first i thought Sasuke would have no other reason after the fight with Itachi OH BUT NOW HE is fighting for itachi…Itachi didn’t want you to do this and Madara told him that.

    OH!!!!!! did anyone notice… the Naruto Anime really fucked up??? Before Sasuke fought the Hachibi(eight tails) Naruto had his fucked up moment (Finds out about his Master’s death). They completely skipped that and went tothe Hachibi’s fight, and Naruto (in the filler) is just coming back from the scene of Itachi vs Sasuke… in the manga after Sasuke’s meeting with Akatsuki they went to Naruto then back to the Hachibi’s battle

  157. @greyfox: the anime put in a filler arc mission to cover a period of time between the Itachi death fight and Naruto finding out about Jiraiya. Anime expands on ideas that the manga couldn’t or wouldn’t cover – remember anime chapters have to be relatively short if they are on a weekly basis…

    And as for Sasuke and all you said above – I am 1000% in agreement with you. There are definitely some inconsistencies in Sasuke’s chakra power. Then there’s the thing that SOMEone needs to clue Sasuke on – besides the fact that they are now at war – Sasuke killed Itachi and why does he want him back now that he killed him? *begins to sigh and then holds her breath as she smells the stench in the fart warfare between total and gavin*

    I have never, ever seen a blog revert to a “farting” match – especially this one. But, I guess there’s a first time for everything. Definitely WAY too much testosterone flowing through here…

    @adakias: FINALLY! Someone sees my point (that doesn’t necessarily mean agrees with it). You are right. The point I am trying to make is that it isn’t about fighting techs and all – I’ve said this repeatedly – go back and re-read my posts. There is where Kishi’s going with this: power and strength are about not only techs but wisdom, faith and having a broader world view of what the consequences are. Sasuke wanted power/strength for it’s own sake – to destroy rather than to protect in the sense that most of us would associate with. Naruto wanted those things to be acknowledged but in the process learned that with having that power and strength comes responsibility – responsibility on how and when to use it, what the consequences are, etc. I realize that everyone seems to be duking it out over Naruto vs. Sasuke and who is stronger/more powerful/weaker/has better-weaker-worse-stronger jutsu but that is getting too specific IMO and completely misses the point that I believe Kishi’s trying to make. The reason I say that is that if Naruto doesn’t do anything like a FRS or if Itachi didn’t grant him dojutsu this next chapter, I know I am going to be seeing comments like “OMG, that was such a lame chapter,” “What a crock! Naruto/Sasuke should have done XXX,” or “Naruto/Sasuke’s a wimp/crybaby/emo/weakling.” It doesn’t matter whether or not FRS is stronger than any level of the EMS – that isn’t what Kishi has as deciding battles here.

    One thing to think about: Given all the jutsu and the fact that he went Kyuubi that he displayed during his battle with Pain, how did Naruto finally defeat Pain? It wasn’t a FRS, it wasn’t frog katas, it wasn’t even going Kyuubi or Rasengan. That was only phase I of the battle. Finally, what got Naruto the praise, the acknowledgment that he had been seeking all along…It was through understanding his enemy.

  158. @Penny: It was through understanding his enemy… I don’t think I’ve heard it explained better. Amen sister.

  159. Love is in the air, I see. Oh Btw, don’t you guys sleep or something.

    Sasuke vs Naruto bratiness debate
    From all the millions of comments I read I can safely conclude Sasuke is just a big whiner. There are other people with fates just as bad as his but you dont see them kill people…that much. His actions are definitely not justified by his fate or whatever. His being a total ass is just part of his character and has always been.

    P.S. not that I hate Sasuke, I just strongly dislike him.

  160. @greyfox & to63to: Trust me, i do understand where both of you are coming from. I guess we should give kishi time to explain these things and show them. Or we’ll just have to assume sasuke’s an antagonist beyond redemption who’s development right now ought not to be explained.

  161. @greyfox: i understand what you say about the speed thing. It seems sasuke had a mark under his feet which orochimaru inscribed for his speed like he had summoning marks on his hands to summon snakes. These marks are all said to have disappeared ever since orochimaru was defeated by itachi. I’ll find facts about that ans let you know the instant i do.

  162. @Penny: Hmmm…should Danzo scold Sasuke about throwing away his sharingan when Danzo used up like 10 of his in 1 battle?

    Sasuke has “true” strength because his “true” strength right now is hate. You may not like it or even agree with it but that’s the way it is. He’s going to learn a valuable lesson from the loss of his eyesight just like Naruto learned a valuable lesson from relying on his Kyubi far to much. They both threw around their powers and suffered for it.

    Lastly, Kakashi’s and Yamato’s pasts are worse in few respects not many. I’d rather go through Kakashi and Yamato’s pasts than Sasuke’s…and gladly. Sasuke had it bad, and that’s a major understatement. That’s for another post though.

    @Adakias: Refresh my memory on what you’re referring to about the eye transfer… And is this the link you’re looking for?

    Since when does wanting revenge make you spoiled? He’s haughty, prideful, and arrogant but spoiled? As if he’s handed everything? Everything he has right now he’s fought for. Where does it say he thinks he’s entitled to power or anything at all for that matter?

  163. @totallitarianhypnosis

    Don’t mind me.I’m just taking things far less seriously than some people here.It’s just manga and all.That is exactly the reason I don’t post those multi-paged essays Supertrek does. Sasuke is the way Kishi wants him to be and I’m just stating my opinion about him.

    Just a question-I didn’t quite get what you meant with “I do understand where both of you are coming from”-would you elaborate?

  164. @Total: Ok, I get now what you meant with the number of tails Naruto can release. If you had explained it like this earlier, we wouldn’t have had a misunderstanding 😉 . Ok, nonetheless, my opinion is different and I think that theoretically, 6 tails could have come as well when he was the 12 year old guy or whatever. Of course no one said so, but I just think that it basically works like this.
    The reason why we saw growing number of tails during the manga is simply because it’s the only reasonable and cool story telling way. It’d be quite dumb to show Naruto with 4 tails against Haku and with only one against Orochimaru, right? 😉
    Well, just my opinion, now I know yours as well.

  165. @Greyfox: LMFAO!!! XD Indeed, but you have to remember the power of darkness refuels Sasuke’s emo batteries. Giving him much more chakra than normal so he continue to go around and carry on his spiel about revenge, kill, revenge, kill. 😉

    Oh, and throw something in there about the Uchiha…

    @To63: Oi oi, don’t call them “multi-paged essays” makes it sound like I’m doing work and I have enough of that already. ~_~ Just call them long ass comments or TLDR. >(0_0)>

    Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to find that rant you did on Sasuke and laugh some more. XD It was quite funny (I’m being sincere).

    @Debate: From what I can tell it came from Naruto vs. Sasuke power debate.

    “@Supertrek89 You said in a post above that a Naruto vs sasuke power difference debate might start.
    Well i’ll throw in the first punch saying that Naruto at this point is a little less powerful then Sasuke.” (Eugen)

    From there it evolved into a Naruto and Sasuke character debate. Then into a solely Sasuke character debate. Then Naruto was brought back into the mix. Now it’s about even between them again but Sasuke is mostly on people’s minds because he’s pissing people off. XD I wonder where it’ll go next…

    @Anyone: I have a discussion not related to the Naruto vs. Sasuke debate. If most jounin learn up to two elements why haven’t we seen these ninja even use one?


    I know most of them aren’t jounin yet, but not even a hint of a possibility that they could use an elemental jutsu has been given. Maybe Kishi needs an arc specifically designed to build up his side characters he so carefully crafted pre-timeskip. I wouldn’t mind seeing Rock Lee in action again.

  166. @super well those shinobi have specific family abilities and they dont need an element like choji who uses his body or shino’s bugs and i think when naruto mentioned shikamarus ability kakashi said something about yin/yang or light/dark manipulation

  167. Here are a few questions that are out on left field…

    1) What if Madera doesn’t care if Sasuke lives or dies? What if he decides that he can take the emo king’s eyes as a consolation prize?

    2) Is there a chance that Madera’s brother is still alive(what if they switched eyes)?

    3) Can sage mode Naruto dodge Susanoo’s arrow?

  168. @visionary : ur second question made me think of another theory.what if tobi/madara is actually izuna uchiha. think about it he would want revenge on konoha for the death of his brother and not believing in him. that would actually explain why he is collecting sharingan because he lost his and is now looking for the perfect sharingans.why would madara cover his face, if everybody Knows how he looks like. but izuna has a reason to hide it, he is basically erase from the record also explains his interest in sasuke since it was stated he was similar to him. and he has short hair kinda like tobi up top. I dont KNow maybe thinking to much, trying to prove i dont lack imagination lol…anyway heres is the links to narutowikia about izuna

  169. @Senju: True, most of them do have family abilities but what about Tsundae, Sakura, and Tenten? Even for the ones that have specific clan abilities I wonder if that stops them from developing any elemental jutsu. I doubt they’re not able to learn but maybe they don’t put in the time to learn, so they can continue to develop the jutsu famous in their clan.

    Wouldn’t they be more powerful though if they added elemental jutsu to their arsenal? Lol, I’m not only asking you btw as if you should know all the answers. This question goes out to anybody interested. You just responded first is all.


    1.) Madara plans to link Sasuke to Gedou Manzo sometime in the future so I don’t think he’d let him die.

    2.) I thought about that but Madara said he killed him himself. (if you need a link just ask…>_>) But hey, Madara could have been lying or wrong so it’s still possible.

    3.) Probably yes.

  170. @to63to: I just meant the fact that sasuke tends to run off with somethings unexplained which tends to be quite annoying. Just kishi’s fault now i look at it, but i guess kishi has just spent time recently designing sasuke to piss some people off, including myself.

  171. The mangekyou sharingan isnt necessarily obtained by killing your best friend, its more likely obtained by losing someone extremely close to you. Itachi was extremely close to Sasuke, he was Sasuke’s target for the latter part of Sasuke’s life and they had a “bond of hatred”, so he was close to him, but not in the conventional sense.

    @Super, you know what really grinds my gears (Family Guy FTEW!!!!)? Sasuke going into battle without any preparation and just screaming and magically gaining new powers, its annoying as hell. That’s the reason I hated Naruto when he was 12-13, but ever since his fight with Kakuzu I gradually began liking him more and more. I actually hated Sasuke ever since his first appearance. The fact that he acted so superior and got trounced by Naruto so effortlessly is the very basis of my irrational hatred for a fictional character lol. And then I hated him more in the Haku fight where he acted so superior, but was still inferior to the other two combatants. Then when he “died”, I actually liked him because of his sacrifice, and then the bastard came back to life. That cemented my hate to this very day. Then the douche fought Rock Lee while still acting like he’s better and got trounced and he even acted like he was better than Neji (at the time Neji would have beaten him within seconds). The worst of all was his fight with Gaara. He still acted superior and was defeated with minimal effort on Gaara’s part. So my hatred for Sasuke comes from the fact that he talks the talk, but by no means can he walk the walk.

    Now Sasuke HAS been spoon-fed from birth. He won the gene lottery when he was born into the Uchiha clan (cant blame him for that one). Then thanks to Itachi, he gained the Sharingan Then Orochimaru gave him the Curse Mark, which was basically a free power-up with no drawbacks, the Kyubi chakra shortens Naruto’s life span and makes him hurt those he loves. Then he used his Sharingan to copy Lee’s technique T^T and mastered it (which was like getting a cheat sheet while Lee played fairly). Then the little emo got Curse Seal lv 2, huge powerup, because lest we forget, before getting it he couldnt keep up with Naruto, but apparently simply surviving the upgrade makes you stronger. Now in Shippuden Sasuke’s training yielded more than Naruto’s during the time-skip. Why is this? (1) Sasuke has the Sharingan and (2) Sasuke was being trained by Orochimaru and had access to A LOT of performance-enhancing drugs. Next, Sasugay absorbed Orochimaru and gained his healing abilities, chakra and jutsus (after Itachi absorbed Oro, he hasnt been able to use a snake-technique and has lost his summoning tattoo), which he used to beat Deidara. Then Itachi fought him and give him the Mangekyou Sharingan. If that isnt being spoon-fed, I dont know what is.

    *goes off to bash Sasuke some more*

  172. @visionary: you indeed raise interesting points, and also good ones. I’m quite intrigued with your first. For someone like madara who took izuna’s eyes and had a massive stack of eyes in his eye/candy factory, your first point is certainly a point of interest. However madara said something about having sasuke become strong enough to fuse him with the gedo mazo. So perhaps that is madara’s long term goal, after having sasuke do his dirty work. I really hope sasuke’s playing possum or he’ll have me up his arse again.

  173. @totalitarianhypnosis

    I bet Kishi has recently found someone’s stash of “helpful herbs” and decided that smoking them was a good idea.

  174. @kisuzachi: trust me, i understand. All you need do is read my initial posts.

  175. @everyone(re: elemental abilities): I’m sorry, but the chakra affinity thing is a little under-appreciated. For instance, Asuma had wind chakra like Naruto, but all we ever see him doing is putting it in his trench knives. The characters you want to see use more nature chakra don’t, probably, because they’re not chakra monsters like Naruto, but they do have special abilities passed on by their family heritage. Don’t discount their abilities. It’s not just about power, but also technique and strategy. Naruto is the son of the fourth. Sasuke son of head of the Uchiha, Asuma well he was good enough(but not too good) that he was selected to be one of the twelve guardians(If he was too good he prob wouldn’t be allowed to go, kinda like if it were Naruto). Don’t forget in anime there’s always some exception to the rules, kinda like real life, lol! I can see Sakura getting more powerful though…I think Kish is making leaders and followers as the scope of the story changes. As a funny coincidence Sai just got bunched with the rest of the stooges because of the smoke bomb incident. You can literally see hm get erased! Denied!!!

  176. @to63to: I agree.

  177. @Super, you hit the nail on the head there. They probably put less emphasis on learning elements and more on their specific clans’ jutsu, though that is pretty dumb. As for Tenten, she’s just useless cannon fodder (only thing left is for her to start wearing a red shirt).

  178. @visionary: Speaking of sakura, it’s high time more emphasis is laid on her genjutsu prowess. Kakashi said her potential in genjutsu will make her a better ninja than tsunade. I guess time will tell. Right now though she’s in a sorry state, always requiring to be saved.

  179. @kisuzachi: Again, I’ll have to say this. Let’s just say that I agree with Sasuke being spoon fed from birth. Okay, fine, compared to other ninja, Sasuke has been given a lot more than the normal ninja. The point is moot.

    Naruto is just as ‘spoon fed from birth’ as Sasuke is.

    If we are going to start up this debate, then let me know. I’ll give plenty of examples.

  180. Speaking of sai and kishi’s “predictions” that he’ll cause something big…i’m wondering if that’s happened already with his interception of sakura from going alone to face sasuke. Now the way i see this is that had sai not intercepted sakura it would mean he had accepted to keep quiet about sakura’s plan to meet sasuke. That would have meant sakura would have died in sasuke’s hands, given sai allowed sakura to run to sasuke alone, and even before kakashi and co get to hear of it sasuke would have been long gone. But by intercepting sakura and making sure he betrayed her wish he let kakashi know about it, also giving kakashi and naruto enough time to get there for a team 7 reunion, “thereby causing something big, with naruto and sasuke looking themselves with ferocious eyes”. If kishi’s “predictions are anything to go by then we should be expecting a blast of events in the upcoming chapters.

    By the way, this has really got me thinking, naruto’s use of kage bushins. The bloke has really mastered it’s use. Given how kage bushins are a jounin level technique and are normally used in recon missions, i dare say naruto’s taking it to another level pulling that one on yamato, one of tsunade’s most trusted ANBU. And seeing how ANBU are supposed to be good at detection, i dare say naruto’s going all they way.

  181. @gavin: Please mate, give me instances on how naruto has been spoon fed from birth. I’m very curious, and when i am it seems i always strive for answers.

  182. @totalitarianhypnosis: I’ll make a post about it soon. I’m going to do some research so I get my information correct.

  183. I’m really trying to think of what that gedo mazo (god statue is going to give to sasuke in terms of strength. Seeing from how madara spoke to zetsu about having to make sure sasuke can be controlled it seems to me synching sasuke with the statue is a really huge risk, a gamble in the sense that once madara does that then sasuke could decide to do whatever he likes. Also given as the statue has the seven bijuu it seems it would grant sasuke a lot of powers. This could be a huge reason why madara wants to watch sasuke sink further into darkness and ensure his well under his control before synching sasuke with the Gedo Mazo. Now my respect for sasuke would be slightly up if he plays possum until right that very point and then screws madara like pain did at the last min, using the Gedo Rinne Tensei no jutsu for konoha rather than for madara.

  184. Eh?

    @Kisu: Lol, you hating Sasuke is fine but he still wasn’t spoon-fed from birth. Unless he was fed hate and misery through a spoon laced with LSD.

    As I said in my first posts he is haughty, prideful, and arrogant and you have reaffirmed that. Spoiled though? Your examples of him being spoon-fed are of Itachi murdering his family which awakened Sasuke’s sharingan that night. Then years later Sasuke was attacked in the forest by Orochimaru forcing on him the CS and all its side effects.

    Remember the CS could have killed him or taken over his body just like Naruto’s Kyubi. Learning Lee’s technique and mastering it to level he did at the praise of Kakashi, Gai, and Lee means he was spoon-fed too? Orochimaru tried to take Sasuke’s body and Sasuke fought back absorbing Orochimaru. Sasuke fought nearly to the death with Itachi and gained MS after the fight…

    So to sum it all up. Sasuke gained the sharingan through the death of his clan. Fought the CS and overcame it so it wouldn’t take him over. Trained his butt off to master Lee’s technique.

    Fought Orochimaru who always planned to take over the kid’s body. Then killed his brother who had been lying to him his entire life and gained MS. Yeah, he was pretty much spoon-fed though he fought for everything. Maybe if you said the spoon was shoved down his throat then in a way he was spoon-fed.

    Now moving on to something far less talked about, Tenten! I wouldn’t say she’s totally useless. I was talking with Tenrai about useless characters and Tenten of all people just happened to pop up in the convo. >_> She’s only been in 3 battles, one with Temari, one with herself, and the other with Kisame. She lost the one with Temari because she was at a huge disadvantage but in her second fight she overcame her clone and in essence surpassed herself in that fight. The Kisame fight was an automatic loss. I think Kishi could greatly improve her character. Ino is the loss cause though…>_>


    Yosh that looks good…….oh sorry, that’s for sasuke killing itachi.

  186. Lets remember though, if it werent for itachi, Susuke wouldnt be nearly as strong as he is now. His MS was basically given to him, and his whole stride to become stronger and focus was all because of itachi. Itachi planned out sasuke’s life for him, right up until death.

  187. You were wright SUPER to give out the warning about the sasuke vs naruto debate and i should have listen to you before this got so escalated but i guess a healthy debate is good every once in a while.
    So from what i can see people at least got the fact down that both protagonists are almost equal in every aspect of there lives the problem is of how they got there and the fact that people think sasuke was granted a big shortcut from birth, maybe naruto has had this all planned out for him by his father too so in regard to that the only thing left to say is:

    Naruto’s better for his attitude of inspiration and good will, while sasuke brings a shitty attitude to the table with his arrogance and disregard for everyone else but himself.

  188. Now that I’ve taken over the blog with my comments I would just like to say no ninja would be as strong as they are right now if it weren’t for someone else. Itachi planned his death by the hands of Sasuke to give him MS. Minato gave Naruto the Kyubi to fight Madara one day. Now that I think about it they were both given something to take down Madara. I wonder if he’s the final antagonist or will it be the Naruto vs. Sasuke showdown…

    Holy crap we’re running out of badguys!

    @Eugen: Lol, lesson learned and a fun debate it was. XD

  189. First, I have to say that I agree with Supertrek. I feel that saying that ‘Sasuke is spoon fed from birth’ is false. If you say that, you are basically saying that he is a spoiled brat. People are pointing out things that Sasuke didn’t work hard for. People are pointing out the MS and saying that because his brother Itachi awakened it in him – that he is spoiled because of it.

    In my opinion, people are just pointing this out because they don’t like Sasuke. But the argument that he is spoiled isn’t a good one. I feel the point is moo. It’s a moo point. The cow goes moo.

    I think people are just trying to point to: Things that Sasuke has been given without him having to work for it. But, as Supertrek has pointed out, there are many things that have been given to them that required hard work indirectly. Yes, Naruto was ‘given’ the knowledge of Rasengan from Jiraya. But Jiraya didn’t make it easy for him. Yes, Sasuke got the MS from Itachi. But it involved unknowingly killing a brother that loved him!

  190. Special things given to Sasuke:
    Born into the Uchiha family
    Given direction from Itachi at a young age
    Motivation to impress father
    Motivation to impress brother
    Born with a genius intelligence
    Taught the Great Fireball tech from his father
    Itachi protected him in the Uchiha massacre
    Itachi awakened his sharingan
    Motivation to become stronger and kill his brother
    Taught chidori by the son of the white fang
    Given the cursed seal by Orochimaru
    Given increased cursed seal powers by the Sound Four
    Three years of training under Orochimaru’s guidance
    Absorbed Orochimaru’s powers with sharingan
    Team Taka
    Revived from the brink of death by Jugo
    Connections to Akatsuki
    Recieved Mangekyo Sharingan from Itachi
    Recieved guidance by Madara
    Motivation to destroy Konoha
    Battled with Kages under Madara’s protection

    Special things given to Naruto:
    Son of the fourth Hokage
    Made the Jinchuriki of the Kyuubi as a baby
    Some saw Naruto as a hero from birth
    Guidence from a compassionate Iruka
    Motivation to be accepted by peers
    Learns Shadow Clone tech from forbidden scroll
    Taught by Kakashi
    Three years of training from Jiraya
    Taught the rasengan from Jiraya
    Learned Rasen-Shiruken quickly due to:
    *Stamina from keeping the Kyuubi
    *Strength of the sage chakra
    *Shadowclone training
    Seems to change the world views of everyone he meets
    Knack for understanding the enemy
    Natural affinity for perverted jutsu
    Motivation to impress Sakura
    Motivation to impress Sasuke
    Motivation to bring Sasuke back from revenge
    Motivation to stop the cycle of hatred
    Itachi granted Naruto a portion of his power
    Jiraya taught Naruto how to do a toad summon
    Jiraya taught Naruto how to use Kyuubi chakra
    Naturally large amount of chakra
    Kyuubi protects him in life threatening situations

  191. All of these things can be argued, but for sure Naruto and Sasuke both have lived privelaged lives. But, I would argue that they have not made it this far without hard work, despite what they have been given.

    I think Eugen brings us to the heart of the matter. The real difference between Naruto and Sasuke are their behaviors. Naruto seems to be on the side of ‘understanding and love’, whereas Sasuke seems to be on the side of ‘ruling with might no matter the cost’.

    I think this is why most people like Naruto better. And it’s not because of some idea that these characters have been spoiled.

  192. @ Gavin bro I think u just settled the debate once and for all with your last 2 post’s, and in essence is not what they learned or how they did it or who was there master, it all comes down to there personalities.
    Sometimes the best answer is a very short one that is right in front of our eyes, but i guess the thrill of a great debate at WRA is much more tempting then a simple answer.

  193. @Eugen: Yep, that’s why I had to mention that you were getting at something more important than this spoiled brat argument. Sometimes it is hard to explain what Sasuke is ‘not’ because the majority of people don’t like him.

  194. I’m confused. Madara said he wants to (later) sync Sasuke with the Gedo Mazo, but that was Nagato’s technique/contract. Since Nagato is (maybe) dead, how did Madara get his hands on Gedo Mazo? I thought a contract could be signed with only one person, and Nagato didn’t “sign it over” to Madara before he died. For fun, here’s a link where Nagato summons Gedo Mazo:

    On a side note, I believe that Nagato is not dead, mostly cause of what Konan says on this page:

    So when someone with the Rinnegan dies, if they’re the “7th Path” (whatever that means), then they don’t really die, they just rest a lot? I wonder if Konan’s paper coffins were just a ruse, to make it look like Nagato had died…

    Maybe Nagato will show up later during the Naruto/Sasuke/Madara fight and do some resurrection jitsu?

  195. @Gavin, how do you explain Sasuke’s “Super Saiyan no jutsu”? Its the jutsu where he screams to the heaven’s and gets stronger by leaps and bounds? And I’m all for ruling with might, that’s why I liked Yahiko, he wanted to take over the world. And Nagato is my favorite character because he wanted to make the world into a bunch of Captain Buggys (cowards that are afraid to fight). I dont know why others hate Sasugay, but I hate him because he’s a disgrace to Vegeta and all anti-heroes out there -_-‘(and all villains in general). I could attack each thing you pointed out about Naruto and Sasuke, but I think for another debate to start, I’ll leave it as is.

    @Super, I’d argue that Tenten is more useless than Ino. After seeing Fuu in combat, I decided Ino has a future, but Tenten’s future is dismal. And who CANT beat a copy of one’s self if one was so weak and utterly useless?

  196. @kisuzachi: On Sasuke’s “super saiyan no jutsu”: I’m assuming you are talking about Sasuke’s new MS powers.

    This is just my opinion. After the fight with Itachi, Sasuke was reloaded. I think Itachi wanted to purify Sasuke by getting rid of Orochimaru’s influence and granting him MS. The power he seems to gain as he yells and screams seems to be because he was given so much power that he doesn’t understand how to use. So I feel that he is still stumbling upon his new powers as he battles with other ninja.

    And yes, it turns out that it does look like ‘super saiyan’ kinda stuff. But we all knew that the MS was much more powerful than anything Sasuke had learned from Orochimaru. It was expected, and still not a reason to hate on Sasuke.

    It resembles how Naruto’s hidden Kyuubi powers came out. So none of Sasuke’s power is a shock to me, especially because of how powerful Itachi seemed to be.

  197. @Gavin, the screaming has reached the realm of ridiculousness. It was ok when he did it against Danzo (but still unbelievable) and then he created a complete Susanoo just by yelling against Kakashi. Its actually a very good reason to hate Sasuke. But lets change the debate to Super’s “why doesnt Neji, Tsunade etc have elements?”

  198. @kisuzachi: I guess I don’t have anything to say about the elements debate.

    There are a lot of unbelievable things going on in the manga. But, you are talking about a power that Sasuke has achieved with hatred, but it’s a power that we’ve known about already. Nothing that Sasuke is doing now is something we haven’t seen from Itachi already. Sasuke had these abilities ‘unlocked’ from Itachi, and he had already seen them used by Itachi. Completely within the realm of sanity. Whereas Naruto had to ‘invent’ some of his jutsu, and it took a long time. Again, no reason for hate just because he is using abilities that were unlocked by MS. In fact it feels right this way, in my opinion.

  199. About other ninja not having elements you’d think of all people the Hokage, Tsuande, would have at least one. Unfortunately all she has shown thus far was her immense strength and adept skill in medical jutsu. Of course I don’t really blame her because she’s been pushed aside for the development of other characters ever since the time skip.

    Then there’s Hidan. He had an awesome special ability but aside from that he had no jutsu at all. Absolutely nothing and he’s an immortal. I wonder if Orochimaru was jealous of Hidan but at the same time facepalming because Hidan could have been learning jutsu instead of praying to lord Janshin.

    I’m sure Sakura has an element up her sleeve along with her natural affinity to genjutsu as Total pointed out. I hope those are further developed sometime. As for the people with family abilities I see no reason they couldn’t have an element too. If it’s common in most ninja to develop at least 2 chakra elements by Jounin level then they should at least have one right now. On top of their family ability it’d only serve to make them more powerful.

    @Arpotu: Summonings can have contracts with multiple people at once like both Naruto and Jiraiya had a summoning with the toads. How Madara can use Gedo Manzo without Nagato has yet to be shown.

    @Gavin: I think we’ve proven Sasuke isn’t a spoiled brat but he is an arrogant and evil dude…and I think he’s emo? o_@ It’s the events in his life which led him down this path though, afterall it was Itachi who told him to lead a hateful life. People are gonna hate him no matter what and they have good reason to sometimes, so let’s move on. Where are all the Sakura bashers at? There’s some common ground! XD Joking…>_>

  200. @supertrek: I don’t think I could really survive an argument about Sasuke ‘not’ being arrogant. I think he is evil and arrogant right now, but I guess I feel weird about his attitude right now. I feel like there is something wrong with his chakra that isn’t his fault. Something that is more literal than him just being evil and cold and “Not who he used to be.” I’ve brought it up before, but there isn’t really a debate there, just a theory.

    Sakura bashing? Hmph… I like Sakura still… I might be the only one left. >_<

  201. @gavin im sorry but if you actually look at the early years of naruto and him growing up you will understand how much of a contradiction saying that people thought of him as a hero. they thought of him as a monster blaming him for what the nine tailed fox did to the village. they were afraid and scared of him. he had no freinds no brothers no father figures he was ALONE all of the village pretended like he didnt exist. if you look at sasuke’s early childhood he was pampered by his family, loving mother watchful dad and helpful brother always striving to be better not a care in the world. until his clan was destroyed he had zero conflict. afterwards i can simpathize with him yes from his view his brother betrayed him and his whole clan (once again in his eyes) but from their he went downhill consistently his thirst for revenge tore him away from any real relationships he could of had (kakashi/mentor, sakura/gf, naruto/freind) he became cold and distant. he made himself the way he is now if he would of stayed and chose to get help from his team his outlook on life would be entirely different he chose to have a shitty life from then on useing anyone to further his power and fuel his unquenchable thirst for revenge and killing all who stand in his way. my point here is that in no way shape or forn should sasuke’s struggle even come close to naruto’s. naruto was shunned feared and hated for something he didnt even do sasuke hated anyone and everyone that got in his way of vengence

  202. oh and btw “given” isn’t the right word i would use to describe how naruto accumulated his abilities. he worked his ass off nearly killing himself many a times during training. His drive is just as crazy as sasuke’s thirst for revenge but without the wanting to kill anyone in his way. people noticed this and thats how he earned the respect of the villagers through determination he caught the eye of jaraiya, which is why he got training in the first place. and you cant tell me that naruto was “given” the rasengan either just look at the technique its a kage level technique for a reason u cant just simply “give” a technique like that to somebody they have to work hella fuckin hard to complete it. in fact the only thing on there he was genually given was the item from itachi and we havent even fucking found out what that was yet so really try and look at the facts before u start spouting nonsense

  203. @acegamer51: Most of what you say I agree completely about. I slightly disagree with what you said about what people thought of Naruto. Iruka was true to what Minato desired, and that was for people to think of Naruto as being a hero who helped get rid of the demon fox. I said that only some people reguarded him as a hero. Maybe it was only Iruka. I’ll give you that.

    But it doesn’t destroy my whole point. I was talking more superficially about what they were given throughout life. You are talking more about their behavior, which I agree with you when you say it is totally different and can’t be compared.

  204. @supertrek: I found out something interesting that even I didn’t know.

    Tsunade’s element is lightning (Raiton)

    If you think about it, it makes sense. For her to be able to interfere with the electrical impulses in the human body, she would have to have an element to supplement her incredible medical ninjutsu skills.

  205. like i said b4 given isnt the word i would use to describe how naruto got his powers like for instance naruto earned sage mode he trained consistently for it and finally achieved it. sasuke was given his new eye techniques. naruto trained consistently learn his rasenshuriken a technique noone has been able to perfect. sasuke was given the curse mark (sure it wasnt by him wanting it but all in all it was just a major bump in his power with out him training or fighting to become powerfull. naruto earns what he gets. sasuke is just getting shit wether it be from his brother or from someone who is trying to manipulate him.

  206. Here is my concept.

    First you are given information. You are taught something. Information is something you can give. Therefore you give information about how to use Rasengan. Jiraya did this for Naruto. It was a special circumstance.

    I’m not discounting how hard he worked to master the jutsu. But…

    Look, I can’t argue anymore. You either see it or you don’t at this point. I’ve made my case.

  207. @ gavin & acegamer51:

    sasuke also trained his but off for his katon jutsu & for kirin & many more but i cant disagree that he got more jutsu just like that by orochimaru & itachi.


    a well thought story about naruto’s kekkei genkai.what you think about this?

  209. SPOILER….. it says confirmed but i dunno it sounds stupid to me, all i know is that anything is better than this naruto this, sasuke that ranting, anywho, there ya go.

  210. http://

    a well thought story about naruto’s kekkei genkai.what you think about this?delete the space after /

  211. ah crap spanky you beat me to it, i only followed the rules lol, i posted a link 😉

  212. sorry if i broke the what is the rule u were following?

  213. its just in the last few breakdowns when people post whole spoilers instead of spoiler links things get really nasty…….

  214. kk.i’ll remember that for next time.thanks for the info.u read the story of naruto’s bloodline limit which link i posted?

  215. So many comments and I haven’t even made one in a while. T__T

    I just hope I didn’t miss any good debates. Well, all I can say is that I can’t wait for the next chapter to be released so we can see what happens. I am just not sure Sasuke will have much of a fight in him if one does occur so I doubt anything will last long, whether he is rescued by Madara, or simply defeated.

    I actually had another interesting thought, that Naruto might defeat Sasuke now and he would be captured and returned to Konoha for imprisonment. Then he gets interrogated, and his former companions try to get through to him, blah, blah, etc.

    Then, after they fail at that and after seeing just how far Sasuke has really fallen (Perhaps with the truth of Itachi also coming to light), Madara comes into the picture and breaks him out again, before offering him Itachi’s eyes seeing as he is now basically blind. Sasuke would feel humiliated and outraged due to being defeated and imprisoned by the village he hates and would ultimately accept, just to gain more power for his goals.

    I know this is all a bit much, but it would be interesting to see Sasuke as a prisoner of Konoha, even if only for a very brief time. It would give us a chance to see how he reacts to his former teammates and comrades and how they would treat him as well. The real battle between Naruto and Sasuke would take place later, though, for obvious reasons.

  216. That would be a really interesting short storyline, Tenrai. As well, I think that it would be very cool to see Sasuke blind for not such a short time, but for, let’s say, about 1 week in “real life” meaning for about 5-10 chapters or so. Would be very cool, I think, comparable to Neo from “Matrix” who got blind at the end. That was very cool as well.

  217. @Tenrai Senshi

    That is an awesome idea.I wonder if that happens and Sasuke sees the destroyed village, maybe he’ll snap out of his revenge trance he’s been lately and come to his mind again.

    If that really happens my suspicions about Kishi spying on this blog will finally be confirmed.

  218. @spanky: Wow, i really like people like you. Thanks for shearing that theory on naruto’s bloodline. People like you really make this blog interesting and create a reason for vital and positively presumptuous discussions. That theory is absolutely wicked….i mean fabulous. And the funny thing is the mate had lots of facts to support them, plus when he did not he supported with intelligent logic. Cheers.

  219. I’m really sorry for breaking the rules, but i bet you’re gonna love this one. With some “spoilers” here it’s interesting how people from other furums try catching some fun. This is not me, by the way.

    “-Sasuke is cornered and seemingly screwed up. Naruto, to everyone’s surprise, casts amaterasu on sasuke, but madara appears and sucks sasuke saving him. However, his mask accidentally drops revealing Ebisu Sensei’s face with sharingan!!

    -Naruto swiftly casts harem jutsu only to be countered by madara-ebisu’s one-hundred-naked-salesemen jutsu, causing sakura to die from a nosebleed. Meanwhile, Kakashi realizes he no longer is the center of the attention, and decides to unveil his mask, manifesting to everyone’s shock his half-alien nature. From far away, Rock Lee reveals his Byakugan and watches the whole scene!

    -naruto say he can’t forgive sasuke for trying to hurt the love of his life.
    kakashi then stab sasuke.
    sasuke falls and madara comes and wrap sasuke away.
    meanwhile, back in the hotel, sakura is reveiled to be a guy ( just like haku. naruto faint (he’s been doing that a lot lately hasn’t he?)
    kakashi is arouse. kakashi attacked sakura.
    naruto dies from over puking.

    back in madara’s lair. sasuke’s clothes are removed. zetsu and madara each “eat” sasuke.
    sasuke dies from rectum rupture.

    tenzo (yamato) is revealed to be ino’s secret lover and kills sakura.

    tenzo slips on the fluids from kakashi and hit his head on a cylinder told. dead

    nect chapter: hinata’s wedding to neji? (talk about incest)”

    Slap, slap, slap. You’re damn lucky your post doesn’t get deleted. 😛 –Penny

  220. Meh. Not funny, just random. Sounds like ideas from some 11 year old kiddie.

  221. @Tenrai: Yeah, you missed a few debates. Prolly good that you missed them – it got a bit warm for us bloggers in here.

    And, for those of you craving spoilers: This one came from Ohana/2ch

    All, I can say is…well, you’ll find out. 😛

  222. A more deatiled spoiler for u guys

  223. Oh my bad penny i didn’t see yours.
    Everyone look at penny’s link it’s got pictures too 😛

  224. @ Totalitarian – Damn! I mean DAMN! I thought I came up with the crack-est (crack-iest?) theories on this blog…

    BUT… As I have already mentioned SAKURA IS MADARA!

  225. Also, Sasuke WILL lose this battle and have to run away… I say this, because Naruto will untie that damned huge bow of his, and he “as an Uchiha” will refuse to fight naked, and run.

  226. LOL! Am I the only one who notices?… >_>;

    Did they just switch jutsu? ROFLMFAO!!!

  227. @visionary: i had to do a double take. i was like WTF?!?! even after looking at all the panels and reading the script i still don’t get why kishi did that lol

  228. Wow! I can’t believe I haven’t noticed Sasuke is a lefty! Well it explains everything! LOL!

    the best spoiler @ the moment(includes dialogue at end):

  229. @Penny: Tsunade has the lighting element!? That’s awesome! Now if only Kakashi would teach her chidori and Madara could implant a sharingan in her so she can counter people reaching for her breasts. >_>

    @Gamer: Ahem…I suggest you reread chapters 220-225 before you claim Sasuke was “pampered” and had “not a care in the world” before his clan was murdered.

    @Spoilers: *shuts eyes and runs for the hills* >_<

  230. @anyone.

    *SPOILER ALERT for those who do not want to see or know anything!!!!*

    For those of you who have seen the spoilers, I am sure you all read what Kakashi said about Sakura’s Kunai being poisoned and how it would not have worked on Sasuke because of Orochimarus effects on his body….

    Well… what about Naruto? He got cut by the same supposedly poisoned Kunai that Sakura was going to use to kill Sasuke. The same kunai that Sasuke took from Sakura to kill her with and the same kunai that then cut Naruto on the cheek when he saved her.

    Does anyone think this will have a long term impact on the upcoming battle? It may cause some adverse reaction in Naruto or cause him to falter…

    (Way to go Sakura, you may have just indirectly put your friends life at risk). X___X

    And, you, Tenrai, made this suggestion…tsk tsk tsk…

    Just as I commented earlier, if I don’t see links in here for spoilers, your comment will be subject to being “administrated.” Nothing personal – just following a suggestion that you made last week and am enforcing.


  231. @visionary: Um…it’s been shown he’s been a lefty since the beginning but I understand how you can miss a detail like that. It’s not something you look for offhand…

    Oh man, now what to do about the write up…anyone up for a demotivational poster? Send me a note at

  232. @tenrai: i was thinking the same thing… just when you thought she couldnt possibly get in the way more than she already has… X_X


    ROFLMFAO!! the opening scene is pricesless!
    naruto and sasuke glare at one another in epic silence…
    kakashi: FALCO PUUUNNCH!!!!

    To all: Please note that I had made a specific request that LINKS, not actual information or printed spoilers be printed in comments. I tend to enforce that very closely. This is because, if you read above, there are comments stating that if spoilers or any hint of them are often cause for others to not post. This is strictly in fairness to them. I want all to be able to post regardless if they “know” what is happening or not. You may have a confirmed spoiler comment but, again, as I clearly stated above, use LINKS. If this continues to be an issue, do not be surprised if your comment is “administrated.” This is nothing against you personally. I am looking at it from this POV: if I wasn’t blogging for Naruto would I want to be spoiled? For me, no. If you want to be, you have other resources and links can be used just as effectively.


  234. @tenrai i thougt so but hes a fast healer thanks to the fox chakra
    an on top now the sage chakra which has a fast healing efect i dont think a lil cut like that wont affect him.but we never know
    and as for sakura the girl is out of it one mistake after the other i hope kishi redems her soon.

  235. @sagemodefreak


    Perhaps, but this is Sakura we are talking about. She did learn all of her skills from Tsunade and that means she would be able to make an extremely potent poison with her medical skills. We don’t really know how the Kyuubi’s healing factor affects poison. For all we know, the increased cellular activity in Naruto’s body may even accelerate the speed at which poisons take affect on him. (Just an example, for theories sake).

    To me, it might be Kishi’s way of balancing out the battle between Naruto and Sasuke and making it more even, with Naruto poisoned and Sasuke half blind.

    Tenrai…slap slap slap. Warnings about Spoilers won’t cut it with me. You suggested links, I will enforce links. End of subject. From here on, comments will be “administrated.”

  236. @penny: sorry bout that. totally didnt read the rules on that one X_X i just saw the panels and had to make that joke before my kidneys burst

  237. @kingtucker: have your kidneys burst elsewhere – there are open chat forums on WRA; Read the top of the page again…it will be there from here onwards on any blog posting I have.


    chapter out really early

  239. 485 out

  240. @ penny now that i posted the link to the new chapter may i start discussing it or do i still need to post spoiler aler on top of the post ????

  241. did naruto just confess his love to sasuke?
    lol awesome one whats it gonna be naruto.

  242. @everyone: this isn’t a difficult concept. Post links for spoilers. Then discuss in general terms. Nuff said.

    You can blame Tenrai for this one…I’m just enforcing.

  243. @everyone: NO MORE SPOILERS…manga is out!

  244. i feel so cool. I posted 1st that manga was out. haha just kidding

  245. Really cool chapter, naruto’s starting to work his magic on sasuke but it was everithing i hoped it would not be, a lot of talking and things said we allready knew, at least we got to see a litte conflict old school between them chidori vs rassengan.

    I’me thinking Naruto’s holding back, because with his wind nature chakra he could easiley neutralize sasuke’s chidori.
    Next week is the chapter we should be looking forward to the most and the next few weeks will be very very intresting.

    It was really cool to see naruto wealding the chidori in the switch personalities scene.

  246. another awesome chapter.

    im curious as to how naruto will save sasuke and the village.
    its possible that naruto might leave konoha since they want sasukes head on a platter. and then beat sasuke every time he tries to attack the leaf but not kill him. in essence he keeps him alive and protects the village at the same time.

    kinda like how goku sparred piccolo at the end of the world tournament. he said he wanted a strong rival so every time he tries to take over the world, he’ll be there to stop him. and eventually piccolo came to the good guys side.

    ofcourse he could do this and stay in the village if they go along with the plan but idk how the rest of the ninja world would feel about that

  247. Awesome chapter!!!

    Naruto is so awesome for still being…Naruto and all his Narutoness! I think Kishi was really trying to drive home the reason for why Sasuke is the way he is. Things that were pointed out in the past debate of ours.

    Naruto understands why Sasuke sought revenge. Kakashi understands the history of hatred Sasuke’s been through to turn him into what he is now. But the most awesome person in this chapter has to be…KIRIN!!! For surpassing Sakura with one simple sentence.

    “Actually…forget it, I’m done with you…”

    LMFAO!!! XD FTW!!! The only disappointment is that we didn’t get Naruto’s answer which I was looking most forward to this chapter. Next chapter it is then.

    @Eugen: If Naruto added wind to his rasengan he would have torn his own arm up. If he was going to throw it then Sasuke would have dodged it and the only time Naruto has been seen to throw the FRS was in Sage Mode which he is not in right now.

  248. @ Super, Penny – Tsunade DOES know chidori… She developed the Full-breast chidori (which Sasuke stole and called his “full-body chidori”) The Full breast chidori is ACTUALLY how her lover Dan died. (and you thought it was in the 3rd shinobi war… tsk tsk.)

  249. @super: i think he was refering to the base fuuton rasengan. not the rasenshuriken

  250. @Prawl: LOL! I should do more research on this stuff.

    @King: Do you mean this?

    That’s what I was referring to when I said, “If Naruto added wind to his rasengan he would have torn his own arm up.” That’s the reason why Naruto learned to throw it. If he attacks with it directly like he would a normal rasengan it’d cause damage to him and his opponent.

  251. Now THAT is what I expected from Naruto when I said that I wished he’d surprise me!!!
    And he definitely did when he actually made compliments to Sasuke / flattered him!! “I wanted to be as cool as you, as strong as you, you are my friend… I’m glad I met you.”
    *sobs* Narutooooooooo, I love you!!!!!!!!!!!

  252. @super: no i meant this

  253. One quick Crack-tacular nonspoiler, and then back from wence I came….

    NARUTO 486: Tyson vs. Holyfield 9000!!!!!

    Kakashi: Sakura! For the Thrid chapter… LEAVE! You are USELESS!

    *Naruto goes into sage-mode and also looks like the incredible toad-hulk, he is beating Sasuke senseless*

    Sakura: Well, it looks like I’m not needed here, so maybe I’ll go..
    *Sakura is interupted by EVERYONE – Karin, Kakashi, Naruto even Sasuke*

    Everyone: LEAVE! Kakashi has spoken! You ARE USELESS!

    *Sakura leaves, crying heavily, Naruto is on the verge of victory, but suddenly…*

    Kakashi: NARUTO! What’s wrong!

    Naruto: Gaahhh.. urghhh…

    *Naruto collapses from SAKURA’S POISON! FACEPALM!*
    *Madara appears and makes Kakashi sit and spin*

    Chapter 487: Sai to the Rescue!

  254. @ Aeris/Everyone – is it just me, or does anyone else expect Naruto to break out singing Lil’ Wayne

    “…And I wish I could be… as cool as you… and I wish I could say… the things you dooo… RASENGAN BITCH!”

  255. @super: i think hes refering to this

    im thinking he didnt make one because a: he didnt have enough time and b: he wanted to cancel sasugays chidori not overpower it and kill him

  256. @ super – fanboi, beat me to it… but this too, proves its an actually tech not just an undeveloped FRS…

  257. @Fanboi & Adakias: Yeah…I know…>(0_0)> Refer to my comment 3 comments above yours. Like I said the jutsu does serious damage to himself and should not be used unless thrown.

  258. @super: it doesnt state anywhere that fuuton rasegan does damgage to the user. just rasenshuriken. rasenshuriken is alot stronger and thus can harm the hand of the user if not thrown

  259. @Everyone: What do you guys think Naruto will say? “I…” ?
    Simply “I… will save you!” ? That’d be a little lame when it comes to choosing cool sounding words… “I… wil change you after all!” ? “I… am going to help you revive the Uchiha-Clan!” ? “I… am going to join you!” ?

  260. @Aeris: I like the “I… am going to help you revive the Uchiha-Clan!” phrase but he’ll do it in his own way. Not the vengeful way Sasuke is going on with.

    @King, Fanboi, and Adakias: Ah, the Fuuton Rasengan which Naruto trained with Kakashi but never used on another opponent. I see what you all were referring to now. My bad. XD

  261. Here is the new 485:

  262. @super – dude, c’mon… read a few pages past fanboi’s link, he uses it at point blank against kakashi’s rasengan.. no damage to arm…

    @aeris – hadn’t thought of that really, would be awesome if he vowed to help him revive the uchiha name… even so, i’m sure sasuke will reject him… would also be a departure from the previous policies of the previous senju leasders, a new start…

  263. @super – sorry, so disregard my last post, you got in to edit yours before i entered it… don’t have privs to edit it myself, so u can delete it

  264. @ Everyone – Sorry guys, I have to take Super’s side on this. I remember clearly, that Naruto was FORBIDDEN from using Rasenshuriken after the kakuzu fight.. because in it’s FULL FORM it caused injury to Naruto as well. It is only through SAGE MODE that he was able to get past that limitation

  265. @Supertrek & Adakias: Hmm, actually that was not meant seriously when I wrote it…….. 😀 😀 But now, as you two commented on it, it grows more and more cool AND possible.

    “I… am going to help you.”

    Although I already wrote that end of the sentence here, it would still count for me as “Naruto surprised me again”, so I’ll let that count if he said that next week 😉 ! *whisper* Come on Naruto, do it, do it, do it, do it, (Bachikoi, Bachikoi, Babyyyy)!

  266. BACHIKOI!!!!

  267. @Adakias: Lol, yeah I see it now but notice it takes two clones to shape it and I think Sasuke would have noticed the difference. Your comment is fine you’re right I should have noticed it. 😉

    @Ero: Hey man! Long time no see! 😀

  268. @prawlkage: No, you’re still wrong! That’s two different jutsus:

    Fuuton: Rasengan Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken

    FRS is forbidden to use if not thrown. Tsunade referred to THAT. The normal Fuuton: Rasengan, I don’t know, it should be allowed to use it in any form, I think no one said anything against that.

    @Super: I’m not sure, but I think the Fuuton: Rasengan takes two clones (=3 people) to shape it as well, doesn’t it?

  269. Argh, I actually made an arrow between the two jutsus in line 2, but the editor sucked it away 😦 . I meant:

    Fuuton: Rasengan …pause… Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken

    What editor sucked what away!? O_O


  270. @Aeris: Nah, Prawl is right. He said the Rasenshuriken does damage to the user and that’s the “full form”. The Futon Rasengan which is the limited version…

    Takes 2 clones and the original body to form so yes it takes 3 people overall. A difference which Sasuke would notice seeing as how he’s not completely blind.

  271. Hi, this is my first post here but I’ve been a long time reader of both IRA and WRA, must’ve read at least a few thousand comments by now.. Chapter 485 raises me two questions: when Sasuke mentions he killed Danzou, Kakashi seemed quite suprised. Do you guys think Kakashi or pretty much any Konoha shinobi would’ve even remotely expected Danzou to be as strong as he was? Personally I wouldn’t have expected him to hold up a fight against any jounin.
    The other question: on page 10, Karin mentions “Sasuke, I may have healed you a little”. Does this mean she somehow healed him before Sakura arrived?

  272. @Trek (more @prawl): Oh sorry, I thought that he didn’t get that the others were talking about the normal Fuuton: Rasengan which is not forbidden to use.

    What difference do you mean that Sasuke would see? 2 clones against…..? 1 clone to make the normal Rasengan? Does he even know that? I mean, when the 1st Chidori vs Rasengan occured, Naruto was in Kyuubi mode and shaped it single-handedly.
    Oh wait, corrected myself:
    Okay, so he does know, but it’s been ages since then 😉 . Well, did you mean that? Anyway, what was your point there in the first place? *g* Forgot what this should be leading to…

  273. @Zzattack: Welcome to WRA! For your first question Kakashi was probably surprised because Sasuke just killed the temporary Hokage of Konoha. I don’t think even he knew how strong Danzo actually was. As for Karin healing Sasuke.

    She’s just mentioning she healed the wound Danzo gave him but his chakra is running very low from his previous fights. Just remember her ability restores health not chakra.

    @Aeris: I’m trying to point out Sasuke knows how elements can work for or against each other.

    He’d notice the different clone adding something to Naruto’s rasengan. Now even if doesn’t know Naruto is adding the wind element he’d still be twice as cautious about the extra clone doing something to Naruto’s jutsu. Some may argue he’d go charging in anyway but I’d disagree.

  274. Okay, I agree with you there. He was very cautious with elements against Deidara as well, and how you cited against Danzou just recently.

  275. *sigh* damnit.. with the arrogance Sasuke is showing, i’m starting to think Sasuke is only going to change at the end of the manga, with out seeing Naruto and Sasuke team up to whoop Madara’s ass!!
    -_-‘ . . . never mind me..

    It’s just when he talks like this .. i just… SIGH!

    ..but never mind that, i don’t know if this was asked already.. but where the hell are Sasuke and Naruto standing at ?? Some alternate dimension resulting in the immense power of the Chidori and the Rasengan colliding!? o_O . . .

    but on the bright side, i’m glad to see Sasuke indirectly acknowledge Naruto by saying “kill me and become a hero, or die at my hand and become another one of my victims” without belittling him. Just goes to show that Sasuke undoubtedly realizes the extent of Naruto’s abilities.

    oh and btw.. WADUP people..!!

  276. naruto manga 485 is out!!

  277. so whats naruto’s answer?

    im thinking naruto is just going to beat the crap outta sasuke until he cant do anymore damage
    take his eyes out
    break some limbs

    you know
    1st hokage v madara
    but more thorough

    im pretty sure those two had a similar relationship
    the 1st probably didnt wanna kill madara
    so he just left him somewhat powerless

  278. @cannon – I didn’t really want to start this debate(if the opinions are as differing as i expect they are) until the next breakdown, but I will give my first assessment of the Naruto/Sasuke chat in this chapter… I’m thinking that was all in Naruto’s conscious; it wasn’t a real conversation. Naruto is actually filling in sasuke’s half of the conversation as he thinks Sasuke would respond if they actually had such a conversation… So naruto is assuming sasuke recognizes his strength (its not sasuke doing so, though it is understood, or rather Kishi is directly telling us, that he does) when Sasuke presents those two “options” at the end…

  279. wow guys… i never meant for yall to turn my comment into a debate XD. i merely thought super misunderstood eugens statement and gave him my interpretation of it.

    lol its actually kinda funny how crazy it gets in here sometimes. i guess thats why i love it! ^_^

  280. @cannonfg: If you look back to when naruto and sasuke last fought something similar happened when chidori & rasengan collided. Their hearts and minds are connected and they comminicate through battle. Sort of like a connected conciousness. At least thats my theory.

  281. So much has happened in Naruto I cant believe it all I have a theory that I wrote about the Sharigan when I was stoned out my brain last night when I fix all the typos I wanna know what you guys think Ill have it ready by tonight it seemed preety out there but it makes sense to me.

  282. LMFAO!!! XD

    That’s priceless…

  283. @super

    Remember, Naruto can add wind element to his Rasengan to a lesser degree to form “Fuuton: Rasengan” instead of “Fuuton: Rasenshuriken” like he did when he used the combination attack with Yamato and when he tested out his developing Rasengan against Kakashi’s

    In neither of those instances did we see any adverse side effect. Only Rasenshuriken damages his arm and only if he doesn’t use it in Sage Mode to throw it.

    That lesser form of his wind element Rasengan is still already considerably more power than a normal Rasengan, which is already a match for Chidori as it is. The added element would just make it more suitable for defeating Chidori and he could have had the upper hand in that jutsu clash if he wanted to. I just don’t think Naruto wanted to cause any harm yet or not to that level, at least. He wants to beat Sasuke, not kill him after all, which is why I doubt he would even use Rasenshuriken even if he had the opportunity of a sure fire shot with it.

    (We all know if a Rasenshuriken hits you without any protection, you might as well be dead).

    I believe Naruto would only use Rasenshuriken if he knew Sasuke could dodge it and that kind of use would only be employed to herd him into a trap or another followup attack, more than anything else. I just don’t see Naruto using a technique like that knowing the type of damage it could do, especially if he wants to save Sasuke and not turn him into an ornament.

  284. Oh wait, I just noticed someone already addressed what I just said…

    Sorry. T__T

  285. Anyway, what I am not sure about is why Kakashi said that Naruto didn’t understand how much Sasuke was a victim of “that era”.

    I think Naruto understands more than anyone, actually. Probably more than Kakashi even. Naruto was also isolated from the rest of the village and treated with disdain, just like the Uchiha clan, only there was no special position given to him to make him at least feel like he was important, while the Uchiha were given the role of policing Konoha.

    Naruto was also hated and ridiculed and looked down upon by his peers. He was treated as an outcast (Like the Uchiha, only more openly and not under any disguise of ignorance). He didn’t have a family to support him or shelter him from that oppression or to make him feel proud of himself (while Sasuke was filled with a sense of pride with regards to his family name) and Naruto also became hateful because of how he was treated.

    And all because of a curse he never wanted, just like the curse Sasuke inherited by being born an Uchiha. Both of them were born into a world, carrying a curse they never wanted. A curse they both inherited because of the actions of a past generation. For Kakashi to say Naruto doesn’t understand is unfair, because at the end of this chapter, we clearly see that he DOES understand and that he lived through a similar trauma.

    Naruto also lost the one person who had been with him the longest and who had been a father figure to him… Jiraiya. That WAS his family and it was also taken away from him. Naruto felt that same pain of loss as Sasuke when he lost the one man that was truly there as a mentor and as a father figure for a considerable amount of time. He also felt that hatred and that yearning for revenge, he also wanted to kill the one responsible. The only difference between Naruto and Sasuke, is that Naruto, in the end, managed to put peace and compassion before revenge. But he still understood those feelings. He still felt them just as much as Sasuke, even if his choices were different.

    Other than that, their circumstances are almost parallel. Naruto himself said that they could have easily been in one another’s places, so I believe Naruto understands now more than ever and that he has felt that same pain. That’s why he is the only one who can save Sasuke as well, just like he saved Gaara, who was also riding the same storm.

  286. @Tenrai: I think Kakashi meant that differently. He said “… a victim from that era…” and I think he meant the era of war that first of all Itachi suffered from and the resulting era of conflict between Senju and Uchiha, and concludingly, of course, the Uchiha massacre. THAT’S what Naruto doesn’t understand.

  287. @Aeris

    But Naruto is a part of that as well. Even the Kyuubi’s attack on Konoha is a result of that same old conflict and therefor is just another curse handed down onto a new generation. Remember, the curse of hatred and conflict afflicts both sides of the battle line, not just the Uchiha.

    Naruto is just as much a part of it as Sasuke is. He has been just as affected because of Madara’s decision to attack Konoha. The mere fact that the Kyuubi was sealed into him due to Madara’s attack made him a part of that conflict and that curse.

    It also makes him a target condemned for death. He is hunted by Akatasuki just because of his status as a Jinchuriki. He couldn’t even learn about his parents because of his fathers role in the third ninja war and the threat he would be under if Minato’s enemies found out that he had a living son.

    So Naruto is a victim of that era just as much as Sasuke is. You say Kakashi thinks Naruto and Sakura don’t understand that, but if that is the case, does Sasuke even understand it? He is making his decisions out of anger and revenge, not understanding. If he truly understood, he would not be making the same mistakes of the past that created that hatred and conflict in the first place.

  288. Hmm, I still think that it’s the way I wrote it before. I’m referring (or I think Kakashi is referring) to the Uchiha massacre only which Naruto didn’t know ANYTHING about, but Sasuke lived with this in mind for over ten years – since he was 7 or so.
    Of course the Uchiha massacre was based on the Kyuubi’s attack which led to the sealing into Naruto but nonetheless, Naruto was NOT affected by the massacre itself. He had other problems to deal with that Sasuke didn’t have to deal with, but I understood it as Kakashi referred to only Sasuke’s side.

  289. That theory of mine is to long so Im going to simplify it the best way I can. What if Madara can use sharigan eyes like a computer for example using possible MS techs from differant eyes like how Kakashi uses a MS tech and Danzou could use Shizu’s power.
    But when Madara uses it doing so effects his mind and alters his personality like how we think hes Obito cause of possibly character changes, also because he has the warp technique and it looks like Kakashis but reversed sharigan style.
    Something to note is that when Senju were using Sharigan MS techs like Danzou his body was changing and Shizu’s chakra was noticed by Ao, No other Uchiha chakra because he only used there eyes for Izanagi. So it could be a Physical Change instead of mental cause there Senju and using someone elses Sharigan power, and thats why Danzou wanted Orochimarus help cause he wanted to combat the change also why Kakashi always becomes physically affected because his body is being effected aswell but he doesnt know it yet.
    Now Madara cause hes Uchiha he could proberly access more the just a MS tech maybe a memory or knowledge maybe thats why he knows so much about Konoha nins and there techs, And maybe that new power of EMS can access differant techs from living Nins like from when he absorbs them. Maybe his power doing this is Flawed cause he has only one eye and he really wants Sasukes new eyes cause he wants ultimate power and control.

    Thats about it I think I relayed my Opinion out there proberly cause im not quite sure being a little blazed.

  290. There are a few typos on my last sentence and maybe more.
    Though I wanted to debate the possiblity of that being another secret to the Sharigan.

  291. @ king & super & adakis & aeris

    Sorry for leaving my whole fuuton rassengan post unclarified, i was indeed as kind metiond reffering to the small fuuton rassengan naruto clashed with kakashi’s normal rassengan.

    But as the problem has been resolved i just wanted to say what i reffered to in the firs place.

    Unlike u guys from the US of A i’me from Bucharest and when u guys are awake i’me sleeping my ass off after a full day of school & spending the rest of the day with my girlfriend all i do before i go back to bad is chat with u guys on WRA.

  292. ok. now that im not breaking the spoiler rules i want to re-post this since its just to awesome…

    ROFLMFAO!! the opening scene is pricesless!
    naruto and sasuke glare at one another in epic silence…
    kakashi: FALCON PAAWWNNCH!!!!

  293. did kakashi just punch sasuke in the balls? O_O

  294. About a wind natured rasengan tearing up naruto’s arm, i think eugen mearnt an ordinary fuuton: Rasengan. The Fuuton: Rasen shuriken is that which has been found to have adverse implications on naruto. Fuuton: Rasengan is the attack naruto used with Yamato’s Suiton: Hahonryuu, to create a Gufuu Suika no Jutsu (water Vortex technique). That wind rasengan has, for now, had no direct complaints concerning it’s use.

  295. @ adakias . sorry about that, i’ll re-post that on the 485 breakdown so you can delve upon it a bit more.

  296. @Ahsan

    Ahsan, firstly, I came up with the idea of posting links to the spoilers rather than the spoiler text itself, no-one else. So if you want to call someone stupid, save it for me and no-one else. The reason was because a lot of people avoid the blog from as early as Tuesday simply because of the spoilers.

    Now, this is how I see it. Less people on the blog equals less comments. Less comments equals less discussion. Less discussions equals a useless blog. I personally feel it gets a bit quiet here towards the end of the week sometimes, not all the time but more often than not. I would rather have more good debates and theory discussions going around rather than having half of the blog trying to dance around the spoilers or simply not here at all.

    If you feel otherwise, that is fine. But try not to see things from only one perspective. Clicking on the spoiler links is just as easy as reading them here. This is a place for discussions not just for spoilers. I also mentioned that the spoilers could be posted at the top of the page once they came out, like they used to be. That way those who wanted to see them could still find them where they wanted it and those who didn’t could avoid it just as easily, knowing where they were.

    If anyone dislikes that idea, then I am sorry. I was just trying to think of a plan that kept everyone on the blog in mind and not just a few. I am also only human though, so if it was a mistake, then you are all welcome to do what you like.

  297. Ahsan, some ppl believe spoilers are evil. I for one do T__T
    But sometime ppl read comments that are spoliers and find out a bit to late that there are. IT is easisr to just post a spoiler link that way ppl wont read them by mistake thinking it is a blog comment.


    If you think other wise, i will find you and eat you for dinner >_>

  298. marksyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yay i for one thought youd be with me xD

    lol anyways just let me give you an example


    ROFLMFAO!! the opening scene is pricesless!
    naruto and sasuke glare at one another in epic silence…
    kakashi: FALCO PUUUNNCH!!!!
    To all: Please note that I had made a specific request that LINKS, not actual information or printed spoilers be printed in comments. I tend to enforce that very closely. This is because, if you read above, there are comments stating that if spoilers or any hint of them are often cause for others to not post. This is strictly in fairness to them. I want all to be able to post regardless if they “know” what is happening or not. You may have a confirmed spoiler comment but, again, as I clearly stated above, use LINKS. If this continues to be an issue, do not be surprised if your comment is “administrated.” This is nothing against you personally. I am looking at it from this POV: if I wasn’t blogging for Naruto would I want to be spoiled? For me, no. If you want to be, you have other resources and links can be used just as effectively.
    kingtuckerviii said this on March 4, 2010 at 12:58 am”

    how could someone who doesnt want to read the spoilers read it? cant he see the SPOILER ALERT BANNER ?? xD LOL

    and please dont eat me or else ill pee in your stomach xDD LMFAO!!!

  299. i am afraid you leave me no choice >_>

    *eats ahsan* X__x

  300. @ supertrek89 for being the first to vote for posting the spoiler with the banner i only have this to add before everyone swears at me for being against the no spoiler rule.

    Since late the spoilers for naruto chapters appear only a few hours before the actual manga so i don’t see no harm in posting a spoiler for a manga that’s gonna appear right after the spoiler.

    At least that’s my opinion on the matter so pleas don’t be mad at me for giving my opinion.
    And as for the spoiler tag or banner what have you i think it’s a great idea that i think no one can miss or miss interpret.

  301. this comment shouldn’t even be read because is just something i was thinking a i thought i woul post it anyway.

    I was thinking if naruto learnes all the nature manipilesin elements and combined them one by one with the rassengan what would it look like for each one.
    Because we all know what the fuuton one looks like i was thinking a raiton and katon rasengan would be really awesomeness the i thought of a suiton one and probably it would look good to, but then a very fuuny figment of imagination ran steright in my head and picturing a doton rassengan for me would only look like a round rock, sort of lice a rock baseball.

    As i said at the begining of the post thhis is quite besides any point, i just felt like posting it anyway.

  302. @trek: I wish you had discussed the poll prior to posting it. It makes me furious that I was circumvented. I would have like to have been consulted on this. Right now, I am feeling ganged up on – and don’t everyone go “Oh Penny, I didn’t mean to do that…” It is up to Trek…To say I am pissed off is a HUGE understatement.

    However, that being said, I was merely enforcing a suggestion, IT WASN’T MY IDEA. I feel as if I am being made to blame for all of this. I never said “no spoilers” – I said spoiler LINKS. Big difference. And, I hate being the bad guy when it wasn’t my idea.

    You guys do what you want. Me? I may be re-thinking my role here as a result of these actions…

  303. First off, Ahsan. There are certain people who don’t like reading spoilers and like Marks said sometimes u don’t realize it’s a spoiler until you’ve started reading it. How hard is it to click a freaking link to read the spoilers? It’s not. So don’t bitch.

    Second, Penny has creative control as the author as to what does and doesn’t go in her posts. And if she doesn’t want full spoilers that’s her decision to make.

    Penny- Let me handle it…don’t do anything until you hear from me.

    As for my solution, here’s what I think. If you guys want a spoiler posted then I say you make a SEPARATE post so those of us that don’t want to read it don’t have to.

    To be completely honest, I don’t see why it’s such a big deal to just click a freaking link. Really Ahsan, it’s a minor inconvience for you, but it saves people like me, Marks and others from reading spoilers when we don’t want to. Now that I have had my say, i’m going back to work.

  304. Ok, first of all, I think this whole ‘ordeal’ has been blown so severely out of proportion, we may well be making a new planet out of a pebble.

    Right from the beginnings of both IRA and WRA, we’ve had spoilers posted one way or the other, and both blogs have survived (and been rather successful, I might add) all this time (running into years now).

    If spoiler text is posted, if spoiler links are posted, what does it matter? Our small community of manga readers and Narutards alike has thrived since its formation and continues to grow. Almost each week, I see more new faces than I am able to remember.

    This is WRA, the blog we have all grown to love the way it is and has always been, the blog we come back to to discuss all things manga: spoiler text or spoiler links. So why all this unnecessary controversy? I blame SCHY >_>…

    –No blaming, my friend, though I see your point. I have posted a commentary on Naruto spoilers and things should be ironed out soon. 😀 Penny

  305. lol at spoiler civil war 😛

    BTW, although it may not be my place to say so(i am just 3 posts old on this place :)),i am officially with ahsan and marksman on this issue……….THERE,I SAID IT 😀

    i believe spoilers are like Icecream, everybody wants it but some people don’t wanna confess their craving in front of others LOL….

    and it’s kinda cool to discuss the spoilers right there in the chapter discussion itself. I agree that clicking a link is’nt that hard, but then, it’s not that much fun 🙂

    I mean, come on, who really wanted to wait a few extra days to learn what happened after EpicGlare…*looks around innocently*

  306. My suggestion is to require posting *SPOILER ALERT* or something similar in the comments like in the poll. That way, if someone doesn’t adhere to the rule, the comment can be deleted easily by an admin. You can let people post links, but posting text is a better way to keep people that are looking for spoilers reading here. I’m sure the admins would be able to keep this up and delete posts from people who aren’t able to follow the rules.

    I actually look for spoilers in the comments whether they are text or links. If they aren’t in the comments, I usually assume the breakdown post also doesn’t have an up to date link.

    One question I have is: Would you guys want a spoiler alert if we are discussing the new manga chapter in detail? Of is it just for confirmed spoilers?

  307. I just read what Captain Pickles said, and I agree. Personal feelings are being hurt just because some people feel wronged somehow by ‘accidentally reading’ a spoiler. Simmer down now… Whether there is a rule for spoilers or not, I hope people will stick around anyway.

  308. it’s absolutely not a spoiler until you yell surprise.

  309. I think you all need to stab yourselves in the leg with a Kunai or break a finger or something, to snap out of Sasuke’s Emo-no-Jitsu. It seems to be infesting this blog. Maybe Zetzu’s dark chakra has finally spread this far…

  310. hang on matey, before we move back to naruto i suggest if anyone’s ever gonna be restive enough to break the rules then they should write SURPRISE in CAPS before they proceed with the spoilers. If not, a little bit of jessica(sorry patience) all night long(not again, meant to say until the chapter was released) won’t kill.

    –YOU of all people (I say that as we’re close friends)….gaahhhhh! –this should have moved on to Naruto. Read the link to my commentary above. You WILL see it again in a future breakdown. –Penny

  311. Yes, we need something that’ll make you laugh or go WTF! I have the perfect video for that. Where’s Naruto and his enthusiasm when you need him to combat the Emo-No-Jutsu?


  313. LOL……….emotarasu is finished now that i have this….*LOOKS AT VIDEO REPEATEDLY TO ESCAPE AFTER-EFFECTS”

    Sasuke (on seeing this video): noooooooooooooooooooo MY EYES!! XD

    supertrek ftw 😀

  314. Oh, and “Yatta” soooo needs to be a Shippuuden outtro – can’t you just see ’em all dancing? Especially Shino 😉

  315. I actually hate spoilers but every once in a while i enjoy readying one (but that’s just me… i was the kind of kid that follows the no dessert before meal rule 4/5 times) . I think the issue here isn’t about posting the link of the spoiler, but rather the fact that even if you post the link you can’t say anything about the spoiler afterward.

    @Ms.mandi: “As for my solution, here’s what I think. If you guys want a spoiler posted then I say you make a SEPARATE post so those of us that don’t want to read it don’t have to. ”

    I think thats a great idea. You guys (editors) should really do that or if you wanna do it in a more democratic way then do a poll asking what we normal dude think…

  316. see the thing here is that Penny never said you couldn’t* discuss the spoilers….

  317. @Super- I think that you stepped into it with this spoiler link mandate. Ashan was right, many of us originally found IRA by searching for spoilers. In fact, if you look at the tags at the top of this post (directly underneath the “by line”) you will find two tags wich read,”Naruto manga spoilers and Naruto spoiler”…rather ironic, huh.

    More importantly, the spoiler rule stifles discourse of those who want to discuss the events depicted in the spoilers. That directly contradicts tenrai’s reason for suggesting the rule change in the first place. Penny wrote administrative notes on two of tenrai’s comments admonishing him for discussing the very spoilers he had suggested removing from the thread. Ain’t that rich.

    For what it’s worth, if your going to err, err on the side of allowing speech rather than stifling it. 🙂

    @Ms. Mandi- If you read Penny’s rebukes on Tenrai’s comments and it’s hard to come away with anything other than, “Don’t discuss the spoilers.”

    –Read the commentary link above. Implied or open personal attacks on me or on anyone will not be tolerated and comments will be “moderated”. You will get your answers on the spoiler issue from that article. –Penny

  318. Actually there is no spoiler link mandate. It was just an idea we were testing out in this breakdown to appease the people who were avoiding the blog because of spoilers. We’re figuring something out right now that will please hopefully mostly everybody. Scorp is on the job! XD

    Oi, is that a butterfly!? *points at butterfly and runs away when everyone is distracted*

  319. @jdb in case you haven’t noticed, this isn’t IRA. So we aren’t following IRA standards.

  320. Great Googly Moogly there’s a strong Spoiler-no-Jitsu going on here. People, this is a fun blog, not a job. Let’s lighten up. If you’re wrong, who cares? If you’re right, who cares? Let’s talk Naruto! Do you really wanna argue about “spoiler rights” right after that awesome manga was released? I mean, this is the lead-in to the next epic battle that people have been LITERALLY waiting for years to see!

    You better watch out, or I’m gonna use my “grumpy old man” jitsu, and you’ll be compelled to get of my lawn!!

    I totally agree with you there! I have posted a commentary that I hope will FINALLY shut down this debate on something that is so non-Naruto. –Penny

  321. Thanks for pointing that out Ms. Mandi.

    Supertrek, I don’t see any butterflies. Super?

  322. Naruto slowly made love to sasuke

    –This comment is a test of a possible solution to posting links…though it is very humorous. 😛 Penny

  323. So is there an actual rule for spoilers or not? Clearly people are confused.

  324. @jdb: I would welcome you back to posting but for such a negative comment I’m remaining silent. For you to suggest that I was rebuking anyone is out of line. It was regarding an issue between Trek and me that has now been worked out as he alluded to above.

    I don’t know where anyone got the idea that spoilers could not be posted or that I banned them. I only was testing putting in links, not the actual text, for those who do not want to be spoiled from an idea by Tenrai. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, this is an opinion area and opinions are welcome, as far as I am concerned. Apparently, someone had an issue with clicking a link then the rumor mill went out of hand. Like I said, there is a workaround in the process that will be tested beginning with either this or the next breakdown.

    @Tenrai: your idea was sound and legitimate. I don’t know where people got all bent out of shape about changing things but then…that’s probably what the issue was in the first place.

  325. Gav- the new rules will be implemented in the next breakdown…they aren’t insane or anything….just a way of marking spoilers as spoilers. And any discussion of said spoilers have to be marked with warnings

  326. im sorry that this has gotten so out of hand. as i feel partially responsable being one of the guys who broke the rules.

    i honestly think sticking with spoiler links is fine. its not to difficult to make an extra click to read something.

    my question is this. are we allowed to ‘discuss’ spoilers if we post a warning? for me this is the only place i can do that. however if it really is such a big deal then banning spoiler discussion is fine too. ill live. i just want to get back to discussing naruto. after all, that is why im here

    Please read the link I placed both in the discussion thread below as well as the top of this breakdown. You will run into this article again in this week’s breakdown should I ever get beyond this spoiler crap to write the damn thing.

      It isn’t your fault, really.

    Some baka got their undies bunched up in their butt crack and need to let everyone know about it. Keep posting. You’ve been great. 😀 I promise you we’ll get past this little bump in the road. –Penny

  327. ah thanks for the clarification mandi. im not the fastest typer in the world ^_^

  328. I’m cool with whatever you admins say/do, but could you guys please make a post or something regarding the new rule? =).
    Some of you need some cheering up so here you go

    Don’t get angry, get awesome =)!

  329. It will be posted in Penny’s next breakdown if not the one after that.

    Edit: LMAO SUPA!!

  330. I vote for links on spoilers! 😀

  331. I also vote for *SPOILER ALERT* warning when discussing any part of a spoiler. 😉

  332. I’m trying to figure out how you did that.

  333. did what?

  334. Wait how do youh accidently read an ENTIRE spoiler text… SMH!!!

  335. @jb135: Miracles happen… remember we. are. awesomeness! T_T

  336. LOl… no one can resist the awesomeness of a spoiler

  337. ROFL at the comments that followed man you guys just cant ignore comments i make can you >_> LOL one thing i hate is useless melodrama xD anyways i wont respond to any of the comments as i think anything i would have said has already been said by my supporters XDDDD *hands over money to the supporter , keep it rollin 😉 *

    since you guys have to give my comments importance

    –Not necessarily, Ahsan. Not on MY posts. If you pull this garbage again on my posts, your comments will suddenly vanish without warning. I would highly suggest you read the post I put up regarding the topic you flamed me on yesterday. –Tsunade (before I smash your face in…)


  338. @Ahsan

    It’s a good thing you don’t write the manga, mate 🙂

  339. Don’t make me post Yatta again…>_> If there’s one thing Ahsan has accomplished it’s him moving the topic back to Naruto though quite aggresively.

    @Anyone: Who’s the most bangable ninja in Konoha? Male or female? You see how I changed the subject with sex? Anyone can do it and it doesn’t even have to be about shagging. 😉

  340. Yatta Yatta Yatta! G-R-E-E-N!!

    Me? I’ll take the singing shinobi with the big fig leaves 😉

    Nah, the answer is obvious – Naruto, but only in Harem-no-Jitsu form!


  342. @Supertrek89

    How about a threesome with Hinata and Karin (mmmmm…redheads)
    You know – double the gun, double the fun.

  343. Tsunade of course, for obvious reasons 😀

    Naruto in harem jutsu is also FTW, but it kinda leads to an Epicfail because you know it’s naruto….

  344. @katz: lol, true that – but if I was a complete stranger walking through Konoha, Harem-no-jitsu would look pretty tempting 😉

  345. W00t w00p! 😀 Awesomeness breakdown Penny, and also an awesomeness two chapters. ^,^ I think I know EXACTLY what the third choice is – what Naruto’s going to do. I think.

    I think Naruto intends to help Sasuke achieve his vengeance, but through means other than killing people off. And to help people understand Itachi’s sacrifice. I think that is Naruto’s third choice.

  346. Oh, and by the way, I think that if Naruto and Sasuke end up fighting, it’ll be a friendly fight, perhaps.

  347. By the way, it’s apparent that Sasuke also hasn’t worked as hard as Naruto has, even if Naruto also cheated in his own way – thank God he has massive reserves of stamina. 🙂

    Sasuke was given drugs most likely, and steroid-like things – it’s mentioned twice, both in the current manga, and the manga when Kakashi is in the hospital and telling Naruto about how he intends to teach him something new if I remember correctly, after they learn that Sasuke has gotten stronger, and Kakashi or someone else suggests that his powers were enhanced.

    So most likely he was also taking drugs, not just to resist poison and have other immunities, but also to strengthen his chakra reserves and also his strength, most likely. :O

  348. YOSH!!! That’s the perverted spirit! 😀

    I’d choose Hinata and Kurenai (pre-pregnancy). *shudders*

    @Demon: True enough but I don’t think either of the two “cheated”. They were helped because of what they were given. Naruto’s increased stamina thanks to the Kyubi and Sasuke’s drug enhancements and sharingan (though he was born with Uchiha blood). I know drug enhancements sound bad but if somebody gave you a nearly limitless supply of chakra (Kyubi) to increase your performance wouldn’t that be comparable to doping? XD

    The reason I don’t think either of the two cheated is because even with the help they worked their asses off to be as strong as they are now. Of course Naruto worked harder though which I think everyone agrees on. Let’s turn this into a doping debate! (Jk)

  349. Sorry to move the topic again but, I have written a piece that may either dazzle or piss off someone. You will see it again in this week’s breakdown. I would highly recommend that you all read it – but DO NOT COMMENT ON IT HERE!!!

  350. *glares at chaotic spoiler debate* O_o

    *runs away screaming*

  351. About the spoiler debate I never really understood what did some people have against Tenrai’s idea of posting links.Honestly it is a great idea and if you are too lazy to click a link you have no right to live(he he, just joking…maybe).I regularly read every comment here even if there are spoilers and although I try to avoid reading them, my eyes, the little backstabbing a**holes,betray me every so often. So yeah, Penny, Super and Tenrai you have my unquestionable support on this matter. *stops kissing ass*

    –Thanks for your support. Now, back to the Naruto debate. 😀 –Penny

  352. I actually wasn’t referring to the Kyuubi when I mentioned his stamina – I was actually referring to how many clones he can do, and, because of that, he can get way more experience in very little amounts of time. I suppose seeing as Sasuke started cheating first with the drugs, the kage bunshin is Naruto’s way to get back.

    Anyways, what do people think about my prediction as to what his third choice is?

  353. Coolio

    @Demon: That’s the thing. The Kyubi is the reason for Naruto’s unnatural amount of stamina which in turn allows him to create 1,000 clones to train with.

    Naruto indeed does have a high natural amount of stamina by himself but the Kyubi plays its role. And because the Kyubi is at the root of his immense stamina it makes it harder to control which is why Yamato was needed to to suppress it when Naruto drew out his chakra in such large gulps in his training.

    As for your third choice it’s a good one and was brought up before. You’re on the right train of thought.

  354. Thanks Super. 😀

    And if I remember correctly didn’t they also say that part of Naruto’s stamina was used to hold the Kyuubi at bay? I could easily be wrong about this one, seeing as I don’t fully remember a location where it was stated. :O

  355. i remember something like that too @ holy

    actually stamina is what allows you to controll chakra doesnt it ?

    so naruto has an awesome stamina that he can use the 9 tails chakra

    am i wrong ?_?

  356. I vaguely remember Kakashi saying that if Naruto didn’t have to suppress the Kyuubi’s chakra, Naruto would have a HUGE chakra pool; more than the Kyuubi perhaps.

    Makes me wonder what would happen if Naruto were to train with Killer Bee to control the Kyuubi, so he wouldn’t have to suppress the chakra. Can you say “One Million Shinobi Bushin-no-jitsu”?

  357. Er, didn’t mean “control” Kyuubi – meant more like “partner” with Kyuubi.

  358. Hmmm…

    I believe the seal is what holds the Kyubi’s chakra in check and it’s designed so that a portion of it mixes in with Naruto’s regular chakra which gives him the extra stamina.

    I can’t find where it’s stated that Naruto’s stamina holds the Kyubi at bay or where it says if it wasn’t for Naruto suppressing the Kyubi he’d have a huge chakra supply. But I did find where it says that the Kyubi is kept at bay to prevent bodily harm but that’s probably done by the seal as I said above.

    Links anyone?

  359. lol.. what a cheerful video. I swear one day i’m gonna learn japanese! The language just sounds so fluent…

  360. anyone else think that the scar naruto has is permanent?
    that we be badass if it was.

  361. It seems like the comment about the poisoned kunai (I think it was Tenrai’s) has seemingly been somewhat looked over…or it’s just me. I reread the manga (as I always do) and I couldn’t help but stare at that scratch on Naruto’s face that the Kunai made. It could make a big difference in the outcome of the ensuing battle if Naruto gets poisoned (by the possibly poisoned kunai that Sasuke took from Sakura). I was under the assumption that Naruto would abduct (or less likely, but possibly CONVINCE) Sasuke to get him to go back to Konoha…making the Bee-invading-Konoha-scenario more plausible.

    I’m probably just being a big wuss though. I just don’t want Naruto to be poisoned. D:

  362. @metachi – damn that’s true he did get cut by it and it did have poison!
    good call.

  363. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see myself much as a serf, or any such thing, when I could always just leave the site. (lol I love you! xoxoxo –Penny)

    Anyways, thanks everyone for your input, and @metachi, that’s extremely possible, and a scary idea! :O

  364. the scratch on naruto’s face looks serious to me, otherwise WHY would kakashi go out of his way to state it was a poisoned kunai………..could that be the reason naruto’s rasengan is not THAT great…….maybe his chakra’s already screwed with…

    anyway i think naruto n sasuke would have a weakened fight in which naruto still owns sasuke, sakura again does something stupid and has to be rescued,but in doing this naruto begins to feel effect of poison and collapses…….sasuke has collapsed too…….so it’s kind of a draw/win for naruto….

    and then what, you ask? oh, i know………………ENTER MADARA O_O……….and finally once again, MADARA AND KAKASHI FACE TO FACE FTEW :D..

    PS: yes, i know i am a closet TobiObi…….it’s kinda hard to give up the tobi=obito epicness 🙂

  365. @Supertrek89

    I noticed something strange in chapter 91/12 (the first link you gave). Did you notice how Jiraiya said that the sealing method was rough and most-likely someone else did the third part of the seal. Does that mean someone tampered with it after Minato’s death or he did it with the help of someone else – maybe Kushina helped him a little.

    If it is the first, that would explain the reason Naruto can’t control the fox very well and if it’s the second maybe that’s what that mysterious jutsu might be.Maybe Naruto has to make the seal better or to make it how it originally was supposed to be. Any ideas?

  366. @supertrek89

    Yamato explained that the only reason Naruto could withstand the Kyuubi’s chakra in the first place was because of the strength of his own chakra.

    And the seals system and how it allows the Kyuubi’s chakra flow through was described by Jiraiya when he was training Naruto to walk on water, I believe.

  367. @Tenrai Senshi

    About the seal – Super posted a link of that very chapter you mentioned – 91, page 12 that’s where I read this. Honestly, it looks very strange and you should see it.

  368. @to63to: I think it was orochimaru (the one that made the third seal) when they fought at the chunnin exam.

  369. @to63to

    I think it looks strange to you because Orochimaru placed another seal over Naruto’s one to disrupt the flow of chakra from the Nine-tails. Jiraiya removes the extra seal right after seeing it.

  370. @Tenrai, Supafreak17

    I guess I have forgotten about that 0_o

  371. Thanks Tenrai as well. 😀

  372. No one replied to my comment I put alot of thought into the topic I wa sin Cancun for 3 weeks so I missed alot of Manga but thought it was good thinking when I looked at so many manga issues of Naruto. I copy and pasted my above comment Im not sure if every one already talkked about the topic but I thought it would be a good convo, Anyways thats what I think about the Sharigan Im going to repost now and hopefully get a reply.

    That theory of mine is to long so Im going to simplify it the best way I can. What if Madara can use sharigan eyes like a computer for example using possible MS techs from differant eyes like how Kakashi uses a MS tech and Danzou could use Shizu’s power.
    But when Madara uses it doing so effects his mind and alters his personality like how we think hes Obito cause of possibly character changes, also because he has the warp technique and it looks like Kakashis but reversed sharigan style.
    Something to note is that when Senju were using Sharigan MS techs like Danzou his body was changing and Shizu’s chakra was noticed by Ao, No other Uchiha chakra because he only used there eyes for Izanagi. So it could be a Physical Change instead of mental cause there Senju and using someone elses Sharigan power, and thats why Danzou wanted Orochimarus help cause he wanted to combat the change also why Kakashi always becomes physically affected because his body is being effected aswell but he doesnt know it yet.
    Now Madara cause hes Uchiha he could proberly access more the just a MS tech maybe a memory or knowledge maybe thats why he knows so much about Konoha nins and there techs, And maybe that new power of EMS can access differant techs from living Nins like from when he absorbs them. Maybe his power doing this is Flawed cause he has only one eye and he really wants Sasukes new eyes cause he wants ultimate power and control.

  373. @supertrek “I can’t find where it’s stated that Naruto’s stamina holds the Kyubi at bay or where it says if it wasn’t for Naruto suppressing the Kyubi he’d have a huge chakra supply.” – Yesterday, I was watching in the TV an anime episode during the beginning of the kagebunshin train for wind element with Naruto. In there, Kakashi stated that if it wasn’t for Naruto having to supress the Kyuubi, his chackra would be even greater.

    In the manga, Kakashi only says that Naruto has two-times his chakra level and if it wasn’t for Yamato’s supressing the Kyuubi chakra, it could be 100 times more. So, I think I will go for the manga’s source instead of the anime, as this episode is in the beginning of a filler arc and the portuguese translation can be all wrong. Here is the link to the manga:

  374. @super: re: my march 6 comment on Naruto’s chakra. The link from Gamse above is what I was referring to – thanks for linking that Gamse. Oh, and here – I’ll link it too to avoid confusion:

    And thanks again for Yatta-no-Jitsu – It saved the day XD

  375. Ok, i was just reading over the blog and i couldnt help but notice penny editing everyone comments because they are discussing the spoilers “Not neccessarily posting the whole spoiler without the link” but just discussing what the saw. In my opinion penny, the editing has gone just a bit too far.

    Posting a spoiler and discussing certian aspects of it is alot different then just discussing what we have read or saw. And even the ppl that discuss the spoiler, the put a decent warning for those who dont want to see it to look right over it. Tenrai has set a good example that is fair for everyone. Lets try and follow it please.

    *sigh* i didnt think things were going to get this bad X__x

  376. *sneaks in* is it safe?
    *eats marc* >_> hehe
    :p whatz up ppls?
    Havent been on in awhile!
    This is really late, but that was a long overdue need for an awesome chapter!!!

    *sneaks away to return to job Application* WISH ME LUCK!!:)

    P.S. enough with the drama, Sasuke shedds enough for all of us 😉

  377. Naruto Shippuden Spoiler Alert:

    I am sorry to bring up a topic that is related to another forum but it relates to the manga as well. Now, with that said, I would like to point out how the anime tries to explain stuff that happens in the manga. For instance, in the latest episode, they show what nature chakra looks like. As I recall, I had brought up a funny event I witnessed it was Sasuke breaking a seal placed upon him. In this latest installment of Shippuden, our young hero and his new ally(both jinchuuriki) are under a sealing jutsu. Because of their Bijuu powers, they are able to break the seals. It is very clear that their chakra is not normal therefore they are able to break the seals. I believe that Kish wants the viewer to understand that. So why was Sasuke able to break the seal? I don’t believe pure anger alone can break a seal. The second thing that the anime does is even more obvious. In the closing credits you will see Sasuke separating from his new team Hawk into complete darkness. Now why would they show that if he hasn’t even learned of his failure with the eight tails? I have noticed that Kish likes to use the anime as a source of clues to the manga. As a matter of fact I bet not many people noticed that Kish used the closing credits in the Naruto anime to show a hint of Naruto’s new outfit before Shippuden ever hit the airwaves.

  378. Yea sure did get quiet.

    So I rekon Naruto Wins agaisnt Sasuke, And what I hope happens is they capture him and by saving his life the rip his eyes out, cause I dont think Konoha knows that if he transplants new eyes he gets more power.

  379. @ Visionary1200: Good points!! I am not up to date with Shippudden due to classes, but I reached episode 143 and I saw the closing credits with sasuke walking into the darkness away from his team and I was like: “hey! that’s symbolic of what’s happening in the manga right now! Just like the closing credits a long time ago before shippudden when you saw young naruto running and the glimpses of his shippuden self a little more grown up (yep i had noticed that lol ;P)”. I think that’s so awesome how kishi puts in those clues for us! Oh and since i’m not up to date with shippudden you talked about the breaking of seals by jinchuriki and then how sasuke had been able to break a seal too. So are you saying that there is a possibility that sasuke might be one too? Cause if so, that would surely explain his ability to maintain so much chakra with all those high level jutsus 0_o

  380. @1angel2heart

    Nope, I don’t think Sasuke is a jinchuriki. It’s just that he,as an Uchiha, has a very powerful chakra and that combined with his anger(anger and other strong emotions actually increase ones strength) probably helped him break the seal.

    I never really thought what seals actually are.Maybe they block somehow the flow of ones chakra and if you are strong enough you probably can force it to flow again. Seals would be then something like the Gentle fist the Hyuga clan utilize but less potent as in not permanently switching off the chakra points(can’t remember name)

  381. @Naruto’s Chakra Discussion: Some of the links were posted before but thanks nonetheless. I was just pointing out Naruto’s stamina and chakra supply was greatly increased thanks to the Kyubi. Though, Naruto naturally has a good amount of chakra on his own.

    @Lelulalilo: Were you trying to say Danzo and Kakashi are Senju and when a Senju uses the sharingan a physical change occurs in their body? Then when a Uchiha uses a borrowed sharingan they’re more affected mentally?

    Hmm…I don’t know about Kakashi and Danzo being of Senju descent since we know so little about the bloodline being passed down. When Madara borrowed his brother’s eyes there was no recorded case of personality change either. It’s an interesting thought.

  382. @to63to: I’m sorry but a normal person cannot break a seal. They make it very clear. A seal is used to control someone or something. In this case its a seal that stops someone. There is no normal person that can overcome that. You need chakra from an external system or something that is aiding you.
    @1angel2heart: Sasuke’s anger and hatred are fueling Dark Zetsu that dwells within his body. Dark Zetsu is manipulating Sasuke into spiraling darkness. The cause of this dark impetus is just my opinion of course. I can’t prove it, but the manga and now the anime are fueling this pet theory of mine. If I am wrong, I will go down in flames, yes, I know, but if I’m right… LOL!… I just think things will progress to the point where Sasuke starts telling a twisted version of their past friendship together and Naruto getting upset about it. Naruto will see Sasuke’s complete disregard for everybody’s feelings as well. Infuriated, he’ll comes at Sasuke wanting to knock some common sense into him. Sasuke, will rush in as well, swinging his sword, and right at that moment Naruto is going to release his meditating clone. That instantly activates sage mode giving Naruto the power to parry the sword and break it(It is possible that Naruto could use his wind chakra to break a lightning based weapon with frog katas). This will send Sasuke over the edge and put him into full-on evil-emo-boss-mode. Naruto, using his sage powers, will then sense a dark presence…

  383. @lelulalilo: Perhaps a better way of saying what you intended or to take what you said further, either a Uchiha or non Uchiha. For a non-Uchiha, the Mangekyou physically drains the body kind of like enduring a Tsukiyomi, but for a Uchiha it just causes permanent eye damage unless its a borrowed eye. Then its all good! You can use whatever you want, as long as you want. The user is all good until he/she runs out of chakra. But in terms of the Majin Buu affect from the eyes…I think we would have gotten some sort of clue from the manga or anime. The manga’s focus has been on people learning from others and valuing their friendship while also believing in the power of oneself. I think that concept would create disillusionment in our main protagonist and we can’t have that!

  384. what the heck is that ninja project?

  385. @supertrek- I thought it was common knowledge that Danzou, kakashi and Naruto are Senju but Naruto has a mother from a destroyed Whirlpool nation.

    Yea I was trying to say that when a Senju uses the MS a pyhsical change occurs it happens to Kakashi all the time, You dont quite see him grab his eye. And with Danzou half his body was Consumed by Shizu chakra.
    Becuase Senju and Uchiha are both related way back when I only assumed that they could use each others powers but be affected by them differantly.

    With Madara being mentally affected, Itachi referred to Madara as being a shell it could mean that he has changed kinda like Alex Mercer is in that Game Prototype.

  386. not the senju debate again… please don’t make me go through that again, i don’t wanna i don’t wanna… no, must refuse to answer lelualilo…

  387. @ visionary1200: it would be so cool if your theory about dark zetsu comes true. Not only would it be cool, but i believe it would make sasuke’s redemption seem easier for the readers to accept, knowing that something was taking advantage of his weakness! Plus, zetsu really has been missing in action since the summit…hmmmm

  388. @ Alec: you know you want to answer… give in…

    give in… @_@



    Lol, I’m just saying just because they live in Konoha doesn’t mean they’re of Senju descent. Btw, the new breakdown is out for those who don’t know.

  390. actually leluallio i disagree with the theory of the MS changing the people it uses. First, the MS effects the uchiha physically, we know that from itachi and madara and saskue going blind. Madara was beaten to a pulp by the first hokage, which is what he referred too when he mentioned the wounds were too deep, and he’s ridiculously old now, which makes him a shell of his former self. Itachi had a disease, and saskue’s only changing mentally because he’s losing his sanity to revenge and going power mad as well, none of those three sharingan users were affected by the sharingan other than bindness when activating the ms, which can be cured with a simple switch of trading your eyes for another ms user (ok, maybe not so simple).

    The two non-uchiha users we’ve seen thus far are kakashi and danzo. danzo simply imploded himself with a reverse four symbol sealing technique (evidence: read to part II five kage summit last paragraphō_Shimura), that has nothing to do with his eleven sharingan. And kakashi has been noticeably lacking in endurance since the beginning of the series and the ms when using the kamui technique (, he uses most of it. he in fact killed himself using it because it takes so much of his chakra, that’s the only “side effect,” however this occurs with any jutsu, it just depends on the power of the technique.

    sorry, for spelling and grammar, it’s late and i’m tired, and i’ll reiterate, what you’re suggesting isn’t really plausible from the evidence given to us by kishi thus far.

  391. Yea, Nahhh I understand that his Kamui technique really takes alot out of him and fatigues him but he is recovering hes gone for a week maybe more. This could be evidence that his body undergoing change just like how Danzou’s body was changing from his MS. Being reason why he wanted Orochimaru, sooner or later this will come out to be truth Ill copy and paste this for when the time comes.


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