Naruto Chapter 626 Breakdown: Story time with Uchiha Madara!

*Madara’s POV*

I’ve often heard others say that sometimes, “life can be b****.” Although I’m still not sure what a female dog has to do with life, now that my own life is coming to an end, I’ve started to realize that living by those YOLO philosophies may not have been such a good idea after all.

They say that your entire life flashes before your eyes just before you die, but strangely enough, I only had a few particularly odd flashbacks, all of which involved a certain annoying Senju who was in just about every scene I was in. It was then that I realized that the author had done me in, and despite my poor circumstances (well, I guess not everyone would be too displeased about being penetrated from behind), I decided to plot my revenge by creating a new world where there are no pointless manga flashbacks… or pointy rear-enders.

... and that it would involve wood...

… and that it would involve wood…

At first, I had this great idea about turning the moon into a giant eyeball and every time someone did something wrong, it would stare at them like “wth? O_o” and they would feel awkward because of it.

I called it the “Moon Eye plan” – for a lack of any better names.

It was brilliant. Perfect in every way. My goal of creating a new world was right at my finger tips, but just as I began to set in motion the events that would lead to my ultimate victory, I started to think about a few things, much to my better judgment and lack of working, non-maniacal brain cells. For starters, I thought about how I went from being stabbed in the back by a huge sword (yes, Hashirama has a very big sword) to being an old man living in a cave who finds little boys to do his dirty work. How did I survive? Who gave me first aid and surprise trauma counseling? Why was I growing an army of wooden dolls, all birthed by a giant wooden man that looks strangely like the mokuton statue thingy that Hashirama summoned?

In fact, now that I think about it, the entire battle with Hashirama itself was very awkward from start to finish. Aside from involving way too much wood for my liking, it also involved a lot of hands and balls as well.

Foreplay. It's very... forward...

And this is why you should always remember to use protection…

As I remember it, after being given a fisting from hell, my fluffy fox that I brought into battle with me was put to sleep. Apparently Hashirama skipped the counting sheep no jutsu method and when straight for the facepalm of death. Clearly he thought that fluffy had seen too much already, something that would cause the nine-tailed furball to be grumpy beyond belief for many years to come. After that, I had a long talk with that annoying Senju who would later become the star of many a flashback episode.

As we spoke, I realized that the place we were standing in might have once been the very same river at which we used to talk with each other at when we were younger, just with a few minor adjustments from our battle. It was strangely ironic, because it was at this very same river that we once stood looking across at each other, throwing skipping stones to the other side to test our friendship and our will. It was a river where I relieved my bladder many a time as Hashirama watched me awkwardly, mocking my sensitivity to my surroundings. It was also at this very same river that we parted from each other and went our separate ways as our clans warred with one another. It seems strangely Ironic that it would be this river that we would return to at the end of all things.

I later learned that this place would come to be called the “Valley of the End”. I would have called it the “Valley of the Rear End” though, because aside from being surprised there, it also looks like a giant crack in the earth.

Well... I'll be dammed... *Gets beaten by a mob with sticks for his lame puns.*

Well… I’ll be dammed… *Gets beaten by a mob with sticks for his lame puns.*

I also thought about how similar this entire scene felt to me as I lay there in the water after being penetrated from behind, almost as if I was caught in some form of deja vu.

At first, I didn’t think much of it – mostly because the pain of that sword in my back demanded my immediate attention and was simply just too much to ignore – but then it hit me like an 18-wheeler on the highway. I had seen this all before, in another scene in the manga. It was exactly the same, with the rain and the water and the sword being stabbed into a back, only instead of me being surprised, it was Konan and instead of Hashirama doing the surprising, it was my stunt double who earns way too much for his services.

Okay...

That awkward moment when you realize you’re having an awkward moment…

The first thing that came to mind after this realization was that this was a complete cop-out! I mean, how could Kishi make me go through the exact same scene someone else went through? He’s plagiarizing himself!

At least, that’s what I thought, but after pondering on it a bit more, I realized that technically speaking, my scene with Hashirama actually came first even though it came second, because it’s a flashback that happened in the past even though it’s further in the manga. This means that the past is in the future and that the future is in the past and that in order to understand the future, you have to understand the past in the future that’s in the past.

After killing whatever braincells I had left with that train of thought, I decided to ponder on something else – despite my non-existent cognitive ability to do so – such as whether or not the similarity between these scenes – which placed Hashirama in the same position as Obito – was indicative of some dark side in Hashirama that was also willing to make what he felt were necessary sacrifices to achieve his goals, a goal that he strangely shares with both myself and my stunt double, who were also willing to make sacrifices in our own way as well. Does this mean we’re really all just the same and that to all of us, the ends simply justify the means? Is there really a difference between sacrificing one life or many, when the purpose behind those sacrifices are the same? Was Hashirama swept up in the same darkness created by the shinobi system as Obito and I were?

Please Note: All memories beyond this point have been omitted due to their graphic nature. Anyone wishing to gain access to these memories will require an animus as well as being directly blood related to the deceased who isn't really deceased.

Please Note: All memories beyond this point have been omitted due to their graphic nature. Anyone wishing to gain access to these memories will require an animus as well as being directly blood related to the deceased who isn’t really deceased even though everyone thought he was.

I realized then – when I started to think about how nations built on sacrifices would only demand more sacrifices to continue to exist – that I had become way too philosophical and that I needed to die for a while so that I could come alive again with a clearer head. So, with that in mind, I read a few chapters of Bleach, which proved to be surprisingly effective at helping me in achieving both results.

And so, that brings an end to my tale of woe and wonder, a tale of surprises and peeing in the river. I’m sure Hashirama will tell his own version of the tale – somewhere, somehow – and that it will be worded a lot prettier than mine in an attempt to appease some emo kid who needs some love in his life, but that’s his business. I hope that you liked my version however, because I’m a way better story teller than he is!

Now all we need is some blond idiot to come along who believes that he can find a way to peace without making any sacrifices. Someone who says he won’t stab his friend in the back and who will stand by him instead, no matter what. But I mean, what are the chances of that happening, right?

It’s impossible…

Yeah... impossible...

Yeah… impossible…

See you all in the comments! ^ ^

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~ by Tenrai Senshi on April 8, 2013.

82 Responses to “Naruto Chapter 626 Breakdown: Story time with Uchiha Madara!”

  1. First.

  2. Second.

  3. Oh and a really deep and well written Breakdown, Ten! 🙂

  4. Deep indeed. For a sec there I thought it was pickles’ work 😀

  5. I waiting a couple hours to say this. FOUR IS DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. Congratulations Ten, it was one of the best breakdowns I’ve read so far. I really enjoyed your take on the story telling perspective. A+ or 10 for Ten

  7. I have to agree to zzattack and Eugen. First, while I was reading it, it just felt like it wasn’t Tenrai style so I was quite surprise when I got to the end that it was in fact Tenrai. Maybe it was all that rear entries that threw me off. It is interesting how the two scenes between Obito and Madara looked similar. I wonder if Madara told Obito what happened to him. Also, if Obito escaped and presumably Madara escaped death via Izanagi, then why didn’t Madara just stab Hashirama in the back instead. The scene when Hashirama looked up and felt to his knee, what was the about? Finally, another awesome breakdown.

  8. I think Hashirama was willing to sacrifice….. himself for peace at first. However later he said screw you madara no messing up “my dream”… He decided he was willing to sacrifice others for his dream? hmmm… I think self-sacrifice maybe the only choice to end the cycle of hatred.

    aso is it possible that Hashirama’s sword is suppose to remind us of Sasuke and his sword wielding?

  9. @ Tenrai Switching up the POV was a good change. Very Well written and as usual contemplative, philosophical and just well thought out.

  10. I was worried that this might have not been a good breakdown. I decided to try something new but I wasn’t sure how it would turn out, but I’m glad some people liked it.

  11. Really enjoyed the breakdown. Refreshing take on the chapter!

    @ashes i hadn’t thought about Hashirama like that. So he is as bad as Madara in terms of doing whatever he can to make sure his dream does not fail.

    Are we assuming that Madara used izanagi to survive?

  12. I wonder if that Mokuton clone lying in the water was the one that Madara took back with him after Hashirama left him for dead. It does look the same as the figure of Hashirama in Obito’s lair (the one that is currently having a staring contest with Yamato).

    Maybe that’s how Madara acquired Hashirama’s cells, per say.

  13. Interestingly enough, I didn’t see SO6P eyes before Madara died… I wonder when he gets them?

  14. @gendoikari Izanagi was still a Uchiha “secret”. I bet even Hashirama didn’t know about it… That would explain how he survived, I mean Izanagi with EMS doesn’t amount to a lost eye? That has been debated by fans on a number of different Naruto forums. We’ve never actually seen someone with EMS use Izanagi… So maybe he used Izanagi and survived. Either way what did he do between that time and when he met obito? Perfecting the tools to accomplish the moon’s eye plan?

  15. I read it a second time. giant crack in the earth!! LOL

  16. @ Tenrai I think those last two paragraphs were comedy gold…..”I’m sure Hashirama will tell his own version of the tale – somewhere, somehow – and that it will be worded a lot prettier than mine in an attempt to appease some emo kid who needs some love in his life” and “Now all we need is some blond idiot to come along who believes that he can find a way to peace without making any sacrifices” lol

  17. Just out of comeplete randomness, I think Minato has a form of Toad Sage Mode

  18. have they revealed what “that Jutsu” is that Minato and Jirayia entrusted to Naruto?

  19. I also wonder what the deus ex machina of Naruto knowing the names of the tailed beasts will be. I mean, will he be able to dissipate the chakra? Will he control the 10-tails and turn it into a one-eyed puppy dog?

  20. @Arpotu

    He said he acquired them before he died, but we know he didn’t actually die at the Valley of the End. I’m assuming he was referring to just before he met Obito, before he died of old age.

    That was after he gave them to Nagato of course.

    @Ashes

    It might be possible that those with the EMS do not lose their sight when using the Izanagi, in a similar manner to how they no longer risk losing their sight using other MS techs, however, Obito specifically mentioned that only those with the power of Uchiha and Senju can use Izanagi properly. Basically, he’s referring to the power of the Sage of the Six Paths. Going by that, I don’t think even Madara in his current state at the time of this battle would have been able to use it properly, so he may have used another means to survive.

    @Wiseman

    I don’t think they have revealed “That Jutsu” yet, otherwise I’m sure they would have at least mentioned it by now. However, now that Minato is alive (so to speak), “that jutsu” may be revealed to Naruto now.

  21. No 627 yet? It’s not on a break right? Guess we’ve been spoiled last few months with the early releases 🙂

  22. well i was thinking since the 4 hokages have been released and the yin chakra being released i think “that” jutsu will be needed and the other bijuu’s would come into play. sage of the six paths mode is all i can think about.

  23. and i also think that the juubi wouldn’t be able to fully transform since the kyuubi didn’t have his yin chakra with him. and naruto would be able to pull out a true juubi.

  24. and it’s finally out! http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/627

  25. Sh@t that was an epic chapter.

  26. I thought it was a pretty good chapter. I didn’t like the wasted panel space on Suigetsu and Karin. They could have shown more and stuff on the Hokage. I am going to like to see their interactions while they try and reach the battlefield. A race between Tobirama and Minato anyone?

    So out of 100, I give it a 86, just because Karin and Suigetsu brought down the epicness of the chapter

  27. Awesome chapter. Things aren’t looking good for madara and obito atm. I’m curious to see what corresponding power ups they’ll get considering minato’s ‘big present’ for naruto. One guess at what that is 😛

    Madara’s thoughts about giving some power to Obito when Naruto was handing out chakra goodies makes me think he still has some stuff up his sleeves.

  28. How on earth are Madara and Obito going to contend with this. The power of this lot is unbelievable. I have a feeling the Hokages won’t fight, only offer advice to inspire. Wonder what the 4th’s gift is? Other half of Kurama’s chakra?

  29. Okay let’s see the Kages are possibly gonna show up. We got the 4 Hokages, Orochimaru, Sasuke ( with EMS on par with Madara’s) and the possibility of the 4th Hokage giving Naruto the other half of the Fox. I think Madara is gonna have his ass handed to him, even if he is a zombie.

    Also is if Susanoo is fueled by hate….. Is Sasuke’s hate stronger? 🙂

  30. This chapter was great….I saying this now I believe obito will bring back some people also….lets not for get kabuto taught him how to do the edo jutsu it would be great if he brings the sage of the six path

  31. Can’t wait to read Tenrai’s summary on this chapter… who predicted that the 4 Hokage and Sasuke would be joining the battle, along with Orochimaru? I can only imagine everyone’s reaction to Sasuke showing on the battlefield…

    So, Naruto isn’t the only person who can use talk-no-jutsu to change opinions… 🙂

  32. I feel like we need a Smarmy character to do a head count the way Tony Stark describes to Loki…. A Naruto parody of this avengers scene……. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auJsMD_rQqw

  33. There’s so much epic radiating from this chapter, I think I saw a pigeon fly past my window and splode from the sheer awesomeness of it.

    Did anyone else feel like jumping out of their seats and cheering after those last pages?

  34. Madara has Rinnegan, and there’s something in the fan, that obito mentioned he hadn’t unsealed when he gave it to back to Madara.
    So there s more.
    Maybe we’ll see a love powered Susanoo from Sasuke 😛 HAHA
    Susanoo 9 tails cloak, maybe one of them dies, Naruto, and Sasuke become Hokage O.O

  35. sorry to say this but i just finished reading the mangastream chapter.. what i saw at the end really crushed my feelings towards this so called epicness kishi started by releasing this chapter. “naruto will be on a break next week it will resume on the double issue 22-23”

  36. I felt as you describe Ten XD

  37. OMG Ten, we jinx’ed it, I can’t believe the manga is going to be on break next week. What kind of person can do something so brutal to so many people. The epicness of this chapter was the great opening for the former kages to enter a fight that will reshape the map forever.

    How about a debate, who do you guys think will be pumped up with the most haxed “NEW” jutsus from the former hokages.

    I think Tobirama will grab the spotlight seeing the dude never showed much fighting, also I would like to see Hiruze unleash the SSj4 jutsus and own the battle field alongside Minato and Orochimaru.

    Also I have a bad feeling Jirayia might be resurrected with Edo Tensei by Obito.

  38. @ Eugen
    A bad feeling man, I would love to see Oro and Jirayia fight to their fullest also 3rd and deff Tobirama is the badass of the Hokage as this chapter showed as the best leader of the kages, so yeah spotlight the motherf@@ker.

  39. I like the fact that Naruto learned by himself what it took Sauske to learn by resurrecting Oro, and the 4 Hokages. I think that tid bit is pretty awesome

  40. Now all Madara and Obito need to do is revive the Sage and his sons, and Jirayia on his side so they could even the odds :DDDDD

  41. Even if Sauske chose to “crush” the village, I still don’t think he’d be able to defeat Hashirama, even with the other Hokage helping out. Sauske would defeat him, but I think Minato would be the finishing blow to him. And I think it’d cost more than a few lives.

  42. Minato is pretty tall, I think the tallest Hokage

  43. @ Sage, That would be over 9000 with Captain Planet arm wrestling Patrick Swayze and Chuck Norris judging the match. It has been my log wish to see Jirayia vs Orochimaru fighting it all out and also, to see Tobirama flexing his muscles and showing us what he and the 3rd are really capable of in an all out fight against such terrible foes.

    @ Wise, We must take back a little from Naruto seeing he had 2 people inside his head telling him the history of the leaf ( Minato & Kushina ) also the Kyuubi, Nagata, Jiraiya and Itachi contributed to Naruto’s knowledge of the past. Sasuke just had Orochimaru and Obito as guides in this department and we all know Obito is a big ass liar.

    Also, I hope the SO6P doesn’t show up at all, it would be too much for the story and the alliance to suffer such a terrible blow. That dude could probably make the whole world implode so the balance would be way out of equilibrium.

  44. i really feel naruto would do a SO6P mode. hahahaha! i think all of the kages would be defeated etc..

  45. @ Chaps, to me a SO6P mode is not complete if Naruto doesn’t possess the Rinnegan. He already has the chakra mode well under control but with a lot more to learn, I’m guessing once Minato transfers the other half of Kurama’s chakra to Naruto he will achieve perfection in that regard and his Chakra Mode will be complete, the only thing is, what will it do for him.

    So far the chakra mode only gave Naruto the following: great speed, evil intentions sensing and the ability to make better use of his chakra at a better level of control ( the mini rassen shuriken, planetary rassengan, etc).

    The rest of the traits ( amplifying the life force and turning zetsus into trees) are his own Uzumaki traits unlocked.
    So it’s gonna be nice to see what’s gonna happen once he gets the full Kyuubi power at his disposal. I bet Madara is going to be really pissed to see him working with the beast he tried so hard to conquer and rule the world with.

  46. well we will see about that. i just hope minato gives the other half of the chakra of kurama to naruto.

  47. This chapter was awful and awesome at the same time. Namely, Itachi better known as the “saint” of the shinobi world and Karin forgiving Sasuke so easily after being penetrated. Maybe it’s an Uzumaki thing. That last page I really wished was a spread page.
    @wiseman So far according to the data books Hashirama is the tallest at 6ft. Minato’s 5’8.

  48. @Katon on mangastream it is a spread and even more amazing

  49. @Katon: I am taking the data books with a grain of salt, since Kishi changes every thing all willy – nelly

  50. @Eugen, Naruto only had like 5 minutes with his parents really. They just told him their story. Kurama hated that crap out of him up until like 20 minutes ago in the Naruto universe. Itachi only gave him one piece of advice, “you don’t force people to acknowledge you, they acknowledge by themselves” or something like that. That advice had nothing to do with being a shinobi and goals and the like.

    Lets face it, Naruto didn’t learn anything from Jirayia. He just honed his strategy more. He learned Rasen Shuriken, Sage Mode, and control Kurama without Jirayia’s help.

    Nagata was teaching him about pain and loss, but Naruto taught him more about being human and always being optimistic and stuff. So I think Naruto taught Nagata more really

    Oro knew way more about the dark side of the shinobi force and probably taught Sauske all the non-biased stuff of the world. He was able to give Sauske things Jirayia didn’t give to Naruto. Oro was just a scientist, and scientist are hardly biased with their observations and research.

  51. it would be awesome if obito brought back jirayia and kushina to fight on their side. i feel like those were the only two that weren’t resurrected in this whole war, along with some select uchiha. obito has plenty of DNA from his wall of sharingan eye collection. It would make an epic emotional battle for naruto and sasuke, if they are going to be teaming up.

    Although i think sasuke is ultimately destine to die and he will give naruto his eyes to become the sage of six paths.

    no retribution without sacrifice! death to sasuke

  52. @Mike, I did not think about that!?!?! What if Obito resurrected all the Uchiha that had died? That would be sick!

  53. i was also wondering how naruto and the others will handle sasuke’s and oro’s return. and how its going to justified in the manga

  54. Sakura is going to welcome him with open arms. She will push Naruto out of the way and run at Sauske crying and screaming

  55. @thelaughingwiseman: Woah, disagree. Jiraya at the very least taught Naruto a lesson in morality. There was that whole, “I don’t know what the answer is [to achieve peace], but I hope I will find out one day.” Naruto was molded by this kind of thing. I feel that Naruto would have ultimately killed someone like Nagato if not for Jiraya’s teachings.

  56. @ Bret. Are you kidding me? Jirayia just re-enforced what Iruka and Kakashi had been teaching him. Keep your friends in mind. Try harder, Do your best, don’t let anyone bring you down.

    What Jirayia did was thrust a huge burden upon Naruto by saying “I don’t know how to save the world, but hell you will find a way”

    I don’t consider thrusting hefty expectations at your very young student a great teaching method. This kid was 13-15 years old, and Jirayia is expecting him to find a way to bring peace to the whole world? A step by step method would have been better. In fact, I think Jirayia did more harm then good. He thrust these expectations, making Naruto full of himself, to the point where Itachi (the only person powerful enough) called Naruto out and said stop thinking that way.

  57. @thelaughingwiseman: Okay then. Let’s say we just go with your premise.

    “Naruto didn’t learn anything from Jiraiya.”

    I’ll do a bit of reading to refresh my mind, and then I’ll come back and hopefully obliterate that premise, because it just seems so wrong. Let me know if you have anything to add before I create a wall of text.

  58. Nah, I’ll let you have this. So we can debate point by point. It’ll be fun. I’ll be looking forward to doing research too

  59. @thelaughingwiseman: Good man. I’ll try to have a response sometime tonight. Haven’t had a healthy debate in a while. I’m sure we’ll have to build criteria as we go.

  60. @wiseman it was not because Itachi called him out. It was because its illegal to disagree with Itachi: the “saint” among “saints.
    BTW it’s KaNton.

  61. He did teach Naruto Rasengan and toad summoning and how to walk on water by controlling his chakra. I think Jirayia really didn’t get a chance to teach Naruto anything else because he was trying to get Naruto to control the bijuu (during the 3 year skip). I remember Naruto went 6 tails on Jirayia and Jirayia ended up pretty beat up if I remember. Jirayia kinda gave up on trying to teach Naruto how to control the Bijuu. too many close calls and possible danger of the bijuu taking over.

  62. @ Bret and Wise, actually the truth is somewhere in the midden. Jiraiya’s main focus was to try and teach Naruto how to take control of the Kyuubi, something i doubt anyone besides Bee would have been able to do for Naruto. This goal of jiraiya’s threw the whole training they had in 3 years in the gutter, Naruto only learned how to adapt more in using shadow clones (I will add that he didn’t even hint to naruto that he could gain info from the clones and thus resulting in shorter training seasions). Jiraiya only taught Naruto better chakra control, the rassengan and toad summoning, just like Ashes pointed out earlier.

    I was always a adept of the fact that Orochimau taught Sasuke a lot more then Jirayia taught Naruto in there 3 years of training.
    Sure the world understanding part is somewhat a merit of Jirayia’s but it was futile seeing Naruto already sponged that info from Iruka and Kakashi, just like Wise said.

    I think jirayia should have done for Naruto what Kakashi did for him during the Wind training also he should have opened the opportunity for Naruto to learn Sage mode earlier on.

    If he would have done that, Jiraiya would have been the teacher I envisioned him to be and he would have done right by Naruto to keep him on par with Sasuke when the reunited after there training.

  63. First, Jiraiya was Naruto’s teacher/sensei – to have him in the story for so long to be taught nothing is a bit far fetched to begin with.

    Some notable things he taught Naruto:
    *Rasengan
    *Toad Summoning
    *How to start controlling Nine Tails chakra.
    *Chakra flow (rotation)

    These first four are pretty solid. I’m not sure how anyone would dispute these.

    Some notable things he did for Naruto:
    *Improve Naruto’s seal and chakra flow, completing training for walking on water.
    *Improve Naruto’s Taijitsu.
    *Improve Naruto’s control of Nine Tails chakra.

    I would argue that these three bullet points resulted in Naruto learning something from Jiraiya, even if it is just improving upon an old idea. Improving Taijitsu implies learning more moves, for example.

    Indirect teachings:
    *Promoted the idea of finding solutions to the hatred in the ninja world
    *Successfully sent intel, helping with the fight against Nagato – “The real one isn’t there”.

    There are more indirect teachings I could mention, but I think this is sufficient. It’s less tangible, but Jiraiya did teach Naruto more about what it takes to work hard. Even though Naruto may have known how to work hard already, Jiraiya took it to new levels, for sure. One more, less tangible thing, would be that Jiraiya taught Naruto what it was like to have a father figure, or grandpa. I think that is worth mentioning.

    I can probably dig up more, but I’ll start with that. I don’t see how someone would argue against Jiraiya teaching Naruto Rasengan. I’m willing to hear you out though thelaughingwiseman.

    @Eugen: I would argue that rasengan was a huge pivotal moment in Naruto’s training, and singularly makes him the teacher I wanted him to be. We could argue that he didn’t complete Naruto’s training in the time skip, but I still think the training was valuable in the way of exploring the true power of the Nine Tails chakra for the first time. At the very least, Naruto was taught how dangerous it was to lose control over it.

    So I wholeheartedly disagree that Naruto didn’t learn anything from Jiraiya.

  64. We need to remember that Jiraiya spent 3 years with Naruto. That’s more time than any other character has ever spent with him in the history of the manga as far as a pure student-sensei relationship goes. At most, Kakashi had been teaching Naruto for half a year as a jounin instructor before he left Konoha to train with Jiraiya.

    As far as I am concerned it was about more than just trying to help Naruto become stronger, but rather, reinforcing his ideals as a shinobi. Yes, Kakashi did teach Naruto important lessons like never forget your friends and all that, but Jiraiya is the one who taught him how to be gutsy and to never give up. More importantly than that, Jiraiya also acted as a father figure of sorts during those three years, which is something I think Naruto needed more than any kind of training to help build him up a bit. I still think it was a bit late and that Jiraiya should have been part of his life from a MUCH earlier stage, but that’s how the story goes.

    @wiseman

    ” This kid was 13-15 years old, and Jirayia is expecting him to find a way to bring peace to the whole world?”

    Actually, that isn’t entirely accurate. Jiraiya said that he himself was trying to bring peace to the world, but if he ever failed he was relying on Naruto to continue his mission when he was gone. I don’t think he said that with the thought in mind that he’d die so soon thereafter. I think he still wanted to be able to teach Naruto for many more years to come, but circumstances just didn’t go his way.

    Still, as far as burdens go, I’d say everyone is responsible for placing too many burdens on Naruto to a degree, from Sakura, to Kakashi, to Jiraiya and even Minato and Kushina. Even Sai commented on how everyone was relying on him too much, which is a sentiment Shikamaru seemed to agree with. Sasuke, in his own way, also placed a large burden on Naruto and if you ask me, the only character who seemed to notice this and who tried to take away from those burdens rather than add to them is, ironically, Sai, the one character who wasn’t meant to understand emotions. Lol.

  65. @Ten, You are totally forgetting about Iruka. Iruka has been with Naruto since he was a child. If anything, Iruka has been with Naruto the longest and actually understands him. He’s more like a parent to Naruto.

    @debate The rasengan is an incomplete technique. It is barely half a jutsu. Minato died before he could finish it, and Jirayia couldn’t even figure out how to combine his element with the rasengan (what is his element anyways? It’d bee cool to know) with all his worldly knowledge. Naruto was able to further expand that into a complete jutsu.

    Jirayia didn’t even tell Naruto his chakra element. Something that would have been really helpful for their training.

    If you want to be technical about chakra control, you’d have to go back to the first arc where Naruto and Sauske are trying to climb trees. Jirayia was able to help him out more because Naruto was stamped with the 5 prong seal by Oro. By that time, Ebisu was already teaching Naruto how to walk on water at that time. Jirayia just picked up where Ebisu left off.

    And do you really think he was worried about Naruto’s well being like a father/grandfather? No father would loosen a seal thinking it’d be a good idea to see if more malevolent chakra is better. He just wanted to correct his past wrongs with Naruto and force power into him, when Naruto clearly couldn’t handle it. How is it that he didn’t know about the Bijuu temples like the one housed inside the turtle island.

    And for some retrospective about what Naruto learned philosophically from Jirayia, you can say that it was Naruto who inspired Jirayia back into thinking about ways to bring peace. Before Naruto, he was just playing old cynical. This is proof by his books he created (icha icha tactics), his nomadic life style, his nonchalance about being Hokage. That is not really a good role model.

    Summary:
    -Rasengan is an incomplete jutsu, that Naruto learned in a week, mostly by himself. Jirayia just showing him the 3 steps.
    -Naruto completed a jutsu Jirayia couldn’t, creating the rasen-shuriken
    -Kakashi taught him his chakra nature
    -Naruto first started learning about Chakra control in the 1st arc.
    -Ebisu was a jonin level ninja with specialties in developing young talent. He was having Naruto almost walk on water, in spite of the 5 prong seal
    -Jirayia was a terrible role model. More like an uncle then a father
    -Not very knowledgeable for someone who’s traveled as much as he
    -Naruto is the one who changed Jirayia from a cynic into the person he used to be (peace bringer)

    Conclusion: I think Naruto didn’t learned anything significant in the time skip. i just think it served as a bridge to increase Naruto’s age and to move the plot ahead. Jirayia got the short end of the stick, just like every other event in his life. He wasn’t even able to see his most successful student achieve Kurama Chakra Mode, complete the rasengan, learn sage mode. He was a product to move the story along through the time skip… And it pains me to say that

  66. Wise and I have had this discussion and there is some merit in criticizing kishi for not having Jiraiyia ( in Three years!) ever explore Naruto’s elemental potential ( or maybe even teaching Sage Mode?!!). It just doesn’t make sense. Kakashi went straight for it.

    however wise I think your being a bit too harsh about Jirayia’s role in Naruto’s life. Though I do feel Kishi short changed the character of being more than just a kind of horny lewd uncle who was more like a body guard than a teacher. Still…. Naruto never had someone who was permanently in his life and completely invested as was Jirayia. Iruka had other students and even though he made Naruto a higher priority than most of his students ( he still had a completely seperate life, Naruto rarely delved into life with Iruka we actually know little about Iruka beyond his parents dying when the Kyuubi rampaged), he became “distant” in the series. We rarely saw him in panels at all. Jirayia however led us to a connection to Pain and Tsunades past. Jirayia’s life is probably the most “shared” life. Naruto needed a mentor that he lived with, in the sense of closeness, and daily modeling. I believe we see alot of Jirayia’s grown up characteristics passed on to Naruto. Naruto needed a stable grown up, constantly involved in his life. I find Jirayia’s “permanence” and “shared life” a stabilizing and soldifying to Naruto’s manic character from even his time with Iruka.

  67. I think we can all agree that the J-Man had a huge impact on Naruto’s character development, no one can state otherwise. What most of us are unhappy with is the fact that Jirayia never pumped Naruto up Ninjutsu-wise.
    Orochimaru passed a lot of knowledge to Sasuke and with Sasuke’s determination to get really powerful in a short time he pushed Orochimaru into teaching him a lot of jutsu and to expand on the ones he already knew.

    The J-Man, as Ashes said, didn’t give Naruto elemental training to complete the rassengan, he didn’t expand on the fast learning potential of shadow clones and he didn’t know how to properly train Naruto to win the Kyuubi’s trust ( Falls of truth, and being contempt and at peace with one’s self) also he didn’t try to teach naruto something new that could have been beneficial to him, like uzumaki sealing jutsus. Compared to Sasuke’s training Naruto’s 3 years were mostly about becoming a better person.

    Maybe Jirayia had a little to much faith in Naruto to achieve more power but that doesn’t excuse the fact that he sent him blind against Sasuke, Orochimaru and Kabuto, after witch, Naruto himself, stated to be a waste of time when he realized the difference between him and Sasuke was so vast after 3 years of training.

  68. @ashes err… Kakashi it took him three years for him to go straight to elemental manipulation. Pre-Shippudden, Kakashi well (as we’ve seen) only taught him tree walking. And unlike Sasuke, Naruto doesn’t have the I learned a new jutsu via brief time skip… jutsu.

  69. @Katonkage Kakashi wasn’t able to get to it until Jirayia returned with Naruto. Pretty much Naruto was with Jirayia for a heck of a long time. Kakashi wasn’t involved in Naruto’s training since the second half of the exams when he devoted his time entirely to training Sasuke.

  70. WILL SOMEONE GET MY NAME RIGHT?!! It’s KANTON!!! Don’t forget the N!!!!
    @Ashes that’s true but Naruto hasn’t learned anything specific like jutsu or combat style. However, Kakashi never did tell Naruto until later.

  71. @thelaughingwiseman: I think Eugen said what I was going to say. Essentially we are not arguing over whether or not Jiraiya taught Naruto anything. I think it is more than obvious that he did. For better or for worse, Naruto was taught the rasengan – and I see nothing to dispute that from what you said. Sure, I can agree that it was an incomplete technique. But that’s not the point. Naruto was taught the use of rasengan from a teacher, and his name is Jiraiya.

    What you are arguing is that he didn’t teach him a whole lot, especially during the time skip. I think that’s actually arguable, but I still somewhat disagree.

    First, what you said about rasengan totally sidesteps the fact that what you call an incomplete technique was more powerful than chidori on a one to one basis. (Chidori, supposedly being a jutsu complete with an element added.) So I never had any complaints about Jiraiya’s teachings because it severely outclassed other jutsu without even needing a wind element. If we’re basing Jiraiya’s abilities as a teacher on this one subject (rasengan), he’s in a class by himself. I’ll admit that Naruto is a fast learner, and has the occasional breakthrough – but would not have been able to learn rasengan without him. (I realize someone might say that Kakashi could have taught him, but that’s not my point.)

    Second, the main complaint is about the time skip. I would say that Jiraiya made a mistake in trying to teach Naruto to use his Nine Tails chakra. But I never blamed him for it. If I was going to bring Naruto out there for three years to train, I would pick the best possible training. In this case, the opportunity was sitting there looking them in the face – control the Nine Tails. Could he have taught him about adding an element to rasengan? Sure. But the obvious choice was to control red chakra.

    The failing here is not based on Jiraiya’s decision necessarily. It was more about Jiraiya’s old ways. Had Naruto encountered someone like Bee, it would be a completely different story. Naruto ended up befriending Kurama through plenty of trials. Jiraiya probably had no concept of that, and it was obvious that they both were trying to control the chakra without consent from Kurama. And let’s be fair: around 90% of the readership were saying that the Kyuubi would never consent to using his full power (at the time). What we got from the time skip was the following:

    Naruto grew up and developed a camaraderie with Jiraiya.
    Naruto knew the difficulties of controlling the Nine Tails chakra.
    Everyone was alerted to the danger of Naruto going berserk.
    Naruto classed up his taijutsu.

    Yes, controlling the Kyuubi in this way was a failed experiment. But only Jiraiya would dare experiment with him. Jiraiya was still an absolutely necessary teacher. Kakashi and Yamato both had to stick around with their powers combined in case Naruto went berserk. The next person to ‘experiment’ with Naruto in this way was Nagato. And look how that turned out.

  72. How’s about we start a debate Tenrai, Gavin, Ian and I started on the chat.

    What team do you guys think can take down Madara in his current Edo state but without the Juubi, solo Madara vs a team of actual living shinobi, no Edo zombies or shinobies that died until now in the manga.

    I will support Tenrai with a 4 men cell composed of Naruto (power, defense, speed, and deception), Bee (extra power, great use of heavy attacks and good at close taijutsu encounters), Kakashi ( Battle planning, great defense via kamui, a great array of jutsus and great battle smarts), and last on the list would be Shikamaru (Strategy, planning, good at defensive encounters).
    Keep in mind Naruto can pump up the team with Kyuubi chakra so they can withstand attacks from Madara, like let’s say, FALLING METEORS and giant forests invaded by mokuton clones wrapped in Susano’o armor.

  73. Sorry for spelling your name wrong @Kanton

    @Eugen I’ll one up you then. Naruto, Bee, Sauske and Oro

  74. @ Wise, I have to tell you, I can’t wait to see what Sasuke and orochimaru can do now seeing as both have come a long way since we’ve seen them fight all out. Oro even has the skills Kabuto honed in his wanna be Orochimaru phase. So that means Orochimaru will most likely use the snake sage mode himself and also start manipulating the surroundings like kabuto did with natural energy.

    Also Sasuke, apart from some burned Zetsus, didn’t show all that much of his new EMS skills. He should bring something really great to the table.

  75. man i cannot believe the epicness of this chaptor! i can honestly say i never thought sasuke would change his mind about destroying konoha. i feel like kishi has been looking for a way to get naruto and sasuke to join forces one more time and this ended bening the perfect opportunity for it. i still dont think it’ll last forever though

  76. @dish: “i still dont think it’ll last forever though”… As Naruto would say, “Believe it!” When you have Madara – the greatest Uchihax asspuller of all time – nothing is impossible.

  77. @Wiseman

    I never forgot Iruka. However, you can’t compare someone teaching a class of children that you happen to be in to spending three years with someone where they are devoting their time exclusively to you.

    Yes, Iruka spent time with Naruto, but he wasn’t with him exclusively or continuously. In saying that, I’ve never disputed the important role that Iruka played in Naruto’s life, I just don’t think anyone else has spent as much time with Naruto or developed as strong a relationship with him as Jiraiya.

  78. @ Jirayia debate & Ten.

    The fact still remain that Jirayia taught Naruto the Rassengan, toad summoning and mild genjutsu evasion techniques, when he could have taught him:
    Rassengan, Wind style, Combining the two, more wind style jutsus depending on other chakra shape manipulations, Sage Mode, with Sage mode naruto would have stood a far better chance against the Kyuubi in there tug of war, the true potential of shadow clones and so on.

    The fact that Jirayia obsessed on the Kyuubi control for so much time left very little time for Naruto to expand on other things that would have been more beneficial for him in the long run.

    Hell think about how strong naruto would have been now if he had learned sage mode back then, how strong he would have been against he’s foes and what a vast experience he would have gained so far. He might have even been able to enter sage mode while moving. Something I still think he can achieve seeing he almost did it in the final stages of the training with Pa frog, given the time I think he would have nailed it.

    No one can say the J-man wasn’t the greatest thing that happened in Naruto’s life, the dude saved Naruto from a life of complete loneliness, that, along with the lessons he gave Naruto about life are priceless and it might just saved Naruto from a life that could have ended much the same way as Nagato’s.

    Fact is, Jirayia was more of a teacher of life instead of a teacher of ninjutsu, something Orochimaru was for Sasuke.

  79. Am I the only one who found the chapter very predictable and hence boring?

  80. @Eugen

    Who’s to say teaching Naruto wasn’t the best long-term decision? I mean, look at what’s happening in the war now. Naruto is handling Kurama’s chakra so well, that Kurama himself has reflected on how he’s surpassed both Kushina and Minato in that regard. Do you think that kind of control just comes out of nowhere, or do you think perhaps Jiraiya’s contribution ended up paying off after all?

    Then tell me, what do you think will contribute to this battle with the Juubi more? Naruto being able to control and distribute Kurama’s chakra, or a Rasenshuriken?

  81. Tenrai even though I get what your saying… I really doubt that jirayia needed to make naruto’s training so exclusive to the Kyuubi chakra control that he couldn’t have even lightly explored Elemental chakra…. I mean I teach Chess and we learn that sometimes one explores a different area of the game to relieve frustration ( for both the student and the teacher) and build confidence to go back to an area where it seems the brain has over done itself and is struggling. A kind of psychological block… it’s not giving up, it’s allowing the brain the ability to come up with an new inspiration, a relieving of the pressure to perform. It also relieves a bit of boredom that comes with too much repetition. Kind of reminds of the Rasengan training Jirayia took Naruto out for Ice cream or something for a break. My point is Jirayia might’ve been just a bit too stubborn and unwilling to let go of the idea of accessing the Kyuubi’s chakra that he over looked Naruto’s other potential as neeeding to be developed. He wanted a full fledge Naruto and settled for prevention and suppression of the Kyuubi’s chakra. It wasn’t a waste of time to teach him chakra control but I think he had tunnel vision.

  82. @Ashes

    Or maybe he was teaching him more than just Jutsu. You need to keep in mind that a lot of the time Naruto spent with Jiraiya was spent travelling all over the place. I’m also sure much of that time was also spent teaching Naruto about other important lessons regarding being a shinobi as well as lessons regarding the places they visited and the people they saw. I’m also sure Jiraiya had to be considerate of other things as well, such as drawing too much attention or attracting possible pursuers, such as the likes of Akatsuki.

    As for things like the elemental training and such, or using clones to train, I need to remind everyone of the risks associated with those training methods, because we all seem to have forgotten them. The biggest risk is that when Naruto strains himself using the clones, the Kyuubi’s chakra starts to leak out and takes control of him. The only reason Naruto was able to do that training under Kakashi was because Yamato was there to suppress Kurama’s chakra when it came out. Even Kakashi himself said that Naruto would not be able to complete the training without Yamato’s aid, and so I highly doubt Jiraiya would have had much luck without similar circumstances. I’m sure he knew that as well.

    I also think we seem to confuse things a bit when we see how much Naruto advanced under Kakashi’s training over the course of a week or two, as opposed to Jiraiya’s training over the course of three years. When Naruto uses clones, he is actually gaining years worth of training in moments. 7 days x 1000 clones = 7000 days worth of training in the span of a week. That’s a lot of years. How can we compare that to three years where chances are, only half the time between travelling and such was actually spent training and where there was no hope of using the shadow clone method at all for the reasons I listed above?

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