Naruto Chapter 597 Breakdown: Obito theories, here we come!

Greetings everyone. It’s Tenrai here, back on the Naruto breakdowns once again after a brief hiatus. Before I start the breakdown itself, I’d like to thank Avenue0Pein for covering for me these past few breakdowns. It helps a lot.

In any case, moving along, I’d have to say that these last few Naruto chapters have been an Obito theorist’s dream come true and, as a self-admitted member of that subgroup, I’ve had my fair share of debates on the blog regarding Tobi’s identity and whether he is or is not, in fact, Obito. Some of you are for it, many are against it, but one things for certain, this latest Naruto chapter definitely plants a few clues that seem to hint at some form of relation between Tobi and Obito.

It also gave us a nice colour spread to gawk at.

From child to hero, we’ve all watched him grow through the years and boy what a journey it has been…

Of course, there’s a lot more to this chapter than a simply theory fest as to who Tobi is, but let’s face it, most of it was about how Tobi’s jutsu works. To refrain from boring you with the details, I will not repeat any of it here because by now all of you have read the chapter and thus, have the gist of it. What I will mention, however, is that it is certainly clear from the information given in this latest chapter that Tobi and Kakashi’s sharingan powers are one and the same and unique to only the two of them, going by Kakashi’s suggestions.

What does this mean exactly? It means that I think we can safely conclude that Tobi is either using Obito’s eye and thus his power, or he IS , in fact, Obito. There are a few clues I’ll point out that seem to be leading towards the latter, but the first one I’ll address is the following.

It looks like Tobi’s pulling a Rambo on us. O_o

As you can see from the screen above – in the area that Naruto’s rasengan had impacted with Tobi – you see some of the results of the damage caused. The most noticeable detail is that the white skin that Tobi has on his arm – which is most likely from the white Zetsu cells in his body – has peeled off or been burned away to reveal more healthy looking normal human skin underneath.

This revelation brings out a few possibilities regarding Tobi’s appearance, the most pertinent being that everything we have seen regarding his body so far may be deceiving to the eyes thanks to the nature of how his body has been constructed. This also means that even when Tobi revealed his face to the likes of Sasuke or Kisame, it’s hard to tell whether the visage they were seeing was truly Tobi’s, or whether it was nothing more than another mask, a layer of skin or cells that are disguising the true face underneath. I do find it odd that Kishi has only ever revealed the right side of Tobi’s face – the same side of Obito’s body that was crushed – while never revealing the left side. This in itself suggests that seeing the left side might give away who he is.

Faces also represent the second visual clue linking Tobi to Obito, because in a page that seems to be deliberately suggestive, Kishi has created a side-by-side cross-section between Tobi’s and Kakashi’s face, much in the same way he did during the Kakashi Gaiden where he had a similar panel between Kakashi and Obito.

Does anyone else notice the line marks forming under Obito’s left eye? O__O

Of course, these clues that link Tobi to Obito are not only visual in nature. Many of them are verbal too and most of the dialogue in this chapter seems to create a sense of personal tension between Tobi and Kakashi. I think there’s a reason Kishi has pushed Kakashi to the forefront of the story in these past few chapters and I don’t think it’s only because of the angry mob of Kakashi fans outside his house that formed after he failed to show us his rampage (although that might be part of it).

The first thing Kakashi asks Tobi after discovering that Tobi’s jutsu and his Kamui are practically one and the same, is where he got “that eye.”

“That eye” is obviously part of the same family as “that jutsu” and “that person.” <__<

Tobi’s answer is very revealing, because he mentions the day that Obito died during the battle of the Kannabi Bridge. It’s ironic because the meaning of his answer is ambiguous – no doubt intentionally – because it was also on that very same day and at that same place that Obito awakened his sharingan and thus, could be read as the place that he “got that eye.”

Kakashi’s response to this revelation is understandably wrought with tension and it stands to reason when one considers the fact that it’s clear to him now that Tobi is using Obito’s power. The page that follows is even more revealing as far as the potential link between Kakashi and Tobi is concerned though.

It’s to late to apologiiiiiiiiize! It’s too late!!!!

In this particular page, Tobi seems to verbally attack Kakashi on a personal level, as if he were holding a lot of ill feelings or resentment towards him. Tobi mentions that what Kakashi says holds no worth and that he is “only words and no action,” once again suggesting that Tobi has intricate knowledge of Kakashi as a person which is a relationship that runs deeper than one that could possibly exist between two strangers.

Of course, if we look back to the events of the Kakashi Gaiden, it’s easy to see where such scolding accusations from Tobi may be rooted.

It’s a heavy burden to carry the dying wishes of a friend…

When Obito asks Kakashi to take care of Rin, Kakashi verbally acknowledges his request as if to promise that he would do so. Later, when talking to Rin alone, Kakashi reiterates that promise and proclaims that he will “protect Rin through life and death.”

Ultimately, however, Kakashi was unnable to honor his words, seeing as how, in the end, he was never truly able to protect Rin and thus she ultimately died as well. It’s something that definitely gives meaning to Tobi’s accusations against Kakashi and would explain the seemingly personal nature of their dialogue.

Tobi also says that it’s too late for regrets, which may be a reference to Kakashi’s regret regarding both Obito’s and Rin’s deaths, however, it may also be linked to his regrets regarding the fact that he did not listen to Obito sooner when it came to saving Rin and that his decision ultimately lead to Obito’s death.

Given all these clues, it’s hard to ignore the possibility that Tobi might be Obito, even for those who might otherwise be dead-set against the theory.

Of course, some would question why someone who once promoted the notion that one should always care and look after their friends would have become so cold and ruthless to the point where he wanted to create a new world free from individuality regardless of the sacrifices he had to make to do so, but even those questions can be answered if we just look in the right place.

These last few thoughts going through Obito’s mind say a lot. In the end, he wanted to be together with everyone and I’m sure he felt that in an ideal world, he would have never had to leave or lose those he loved – and that’s exactly what Tobi is trying to do, build an ideal world.

He wishes to build a world without war or suffering, a world where, perhaps, he can be together with those he loves again even if such a world only exists in a dream.

Perhaps Tobi is referring to Kakashi’s excuses about Rin’s death?

In the end though, like all theories, nothing is set in stone until it is revealed in the manga itself and thus, as much as I support the Tobi/Obito theory, I am well aware of the fact that it may never come to pass despite how much it is hinted at in this new chapter. If I had to list my list of top candidates regarding Tobi’s true identity, it would be as follows.

1: Obito: For obvious reasons.

2: Izuna Uchiha: Because he would fit most timelines without argument and because he lost his eyes, thus it makes more sense that he would have had to use the eyes of other Uchiha like Obito. It would also explain his seemingly intricate relationship with Madara.

3: The Sage of the Six Path’s oldest or youngest son: The oldest son had the Rinnegan if we go by flashbacks, which would explain how Tobi originally acquired the Rinnegan and why he called them “his eyes.” The youngest son, however, looks more like Tobi from an aesthetic point of view so is not an impossibility either.

4: Some other non-Uchiha: Tobi may, in fact, be some non-Uchiha that we don’t know of, or perhaps even be born as a result of one of Orochimaru’s or Madara’s experiments. This I feel is less likely though because to me, it would have much less of an impact if Tobi ended up being someone we don’t know, because it would make the point of hiding his identity for so long negligible.

Aside from those, there are many other possibilities, but those are the ones I personally feel most strongly about. The only other theory I would like to mention is actually one born from details revealed about the new Naruto movie, Road to Ninja.

*SPOILERS ABOUT THE MOVIE START HERE.*

Naruto and Menma, two sides of the same coin…

Through details revealed about the latest movie, it has been discovered that the primary villain of the movie is actually an evil version of Naruto who exists in the alternate reality created through Tobi’s Limited Eternal Tsukyomi.

Menma, as an alternate version of Naruto, also shares many of his features, such as having a similar face, the same shaped eyes and whisker marks on his cheeks. Even his hair is the same aside from the fact that it is black instead of blond. Other features that stand out are the fact that Menma is also a Jinchuuriki and is the host of the Kyuubi in the alternate world that he resides in and that he is also often seen wearing a Kitsune mask. Aside from that, an interesting fact to point out is that at some point, Menma apparently merges with Tobi, after which he has the Sharingan in his right eye.

It may be possible that the introduction of Menma in the latest Naruto movie and his subsequent merger with Tobi may serve as a clue regarding Tobi’s identity, although this theory is stretching it a bit. However, it has been said that this latest Naruto movie is more canonical and less filler – in contrast to the other movies – so the possibility that there are links between these details is there.

*NARUTO MOVIE SPOILERS END HERE.*

If you guys have any other names you’d like me to add to the poll, please just mention it in the comments and I’ll add it if it’s relevant.

Heading towards the final confrontation with Tobi, Naruto’s determination ignites!

Well, that’s it from me this week. I’m sorry if my breakdown had too much of a specific focus, but I felt that with Tobi’s reveal on the horizon, now’s the best time to discuss or debate our final theories about who he is, mostly because it’s the last chance we’ll get.

In any case, here is last week’s Bubbliton winner.

Gavin: Finally, a move Tobi didn’t see coming.

Well done to Gavin for his entry.

Here is this week’s screen.

*Insert possible caption here.*

Let the Tobi debates begin! ^ ^

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~ by Tenrai Senshi on August 13, 2012.

193 Responses to “Naruto Chapter 597 Breakdown: Obito theories, here we come!”

  1. I guess I’ll shout first, even though it’s my breakdown. O_o

  2. Technically first.

  3. Technically first since Kanton always gets a heads up somehow :))

  4. yes… shout it while you can…. :I

  5. But I highly doubt it to be Obito just because of too many clues pointing to Obito… what kind of shock would that be? As said before time doesn’t add up Obito being Tobi…

  6. If Obito, how did Kisame recognize him and feel.comfortable he was running things? With the wall of eyes Tobi has, I feel its much more likely he’s an uchiha(how else could he spam the sharingan so much) that lost his eyes and collects them so he never runs out. Either Shisui or Izuna. Leaning towards Izuna.

    On another note, since the jutsu and eyes are the same, when are we going to see Kakashi start slipping through things and traveling at the freaking speed of light??

  7. @Grey

    To me, a good mystery is one where you’re given clues, but not answers. It gives the reader a chance to figure things out without giving itself away completely and that increases the amount of interest. If the reader ends up being right, then it just means that they managed to interpret those clues properly, but if they get it wrong, then the answer should at the very least make sense.

    To me, the worst thing an author could do is make a mystery that is deliberately impossible to figure out and where the only hope the reader has of understanding it, is for the author him/herself to give the answer. If Kishi reveals Tobi’s identity and it ends up being a character we do not know of, then to me, that would be a bad outcome because it means the whole point of the mystery and the excitement behind trying to figure it out was lost. When Tobi’s identity is revealed, we should go “oh, so that’s who it is!” not “okay, who the hell is that?”

    The best mysteries, of course, are the ones that put the evidence plainly in front of your eyes and yet disguises it well enough to lead you astray. That way when the reveal comes, you kinda hit yourself in the head for not figuring it out sooner. Lol. If Kishi pulls that off, then that’s great, but I still don’t see why Tobi cannot be Obito. Also, it’s not like all clues were pointing to Obito and for a long time, I feel like Kishi tried to lead us astray by having us believe Tobi might have been Madara or even Danzou. It all depends on what type of character he wants Tobi to be and how it fits with the story. He can’t change who Tobi is just to suit fans, because if you write solely with the intentions of proving everyone else wrong or tricking them, then you’ve lost the essence of what makes a good story. In other words, if Kishi’s original intention was for Tobi to be Obito, he should stick to it rather than changing it just because people might have guessed it.

  8. Plus he told Minato “Do you know how long I’ve waited for this moment?” Seems Tobi is very old, too old to be Obito.

  9. @Mantis

    Kakashi may have the same power as Tobi per say, but he is still a non-Uchiha, so there may be limits to how he can use it, or how often he can use it at the very least. Absorbing yourself for long-distance travel may seem like a good idea under normal circumstances, but when we consider that Kakashi might pass out just from using his eye too much, for him it doesn’t seem like such a convenience anymore.

    Anyway, I guessed that many would still be against the Obito theory. I’m sure many more will comment and contest it. It’s just when I look at the bigger picture, I don’t see why any other theory should be more likely than the Obito theory. All of them have their merits and all of them have details that are cause for doubt.

  10. I was very against the Obito theory but after the past few chapters it does seem likely. But it’s felt like at the same time he could easily be someone completely different. All the points for Obito being Tobi are plausible but i have a gut feeling it’s Izuna. Maybe Izuna found Obito’s body and the two merged because they were both “incomplete” people. There’s no way Obito would know so much history about Konoho’s founding and all the details about Madara besides his brother. Then we have Tobi in possession of Obito’s eye and his familiarity and resentment with Kakashi. Maybe the reason Tobi said he was “No one” was because he was no longer Obito or Izuna, but a shell for both of them.

  11. this was a great breakdown, my only problem with it is that naruto/kubi were completely overshadowed. I know obito is the hot topic right now but the relationship between naruto and krama has been going on since the start of the manga. It would have been nice to read a bit of the breakdown about that. After all this is the first time that Kurama has gone to bat for naruto and defended him. You think that would get a little recognition. Also the translation in the chapter wasn’t to clear… kurama said the fourth left “him to him” …??

  12. @tenrai
    I mean yeah the best mysteries to solve are those given to you, but don’t you think this is on purpose to put out SO MANY HUGE CLUES in just 2-3 chapters JUST before we find out who he is? It seems he’s trying to get AS MANY people away from the real person as he can before he reveals Tobi since he is stalling… If Kakashi could finish his sentence “are you Obito?” Or if any of the other situations were to continue to play out we would’ve been found out who he was, but its interrupted to keep giving Obito clues until he says its someone else side hitting everyone. I put all my bets down on it NOT being Obito just because how obvious it is…

  13. @greyfox i completely agree. kishi did the same thing when he revelaed danzo’s sharingan i bet everyone was screaming it’s danzo…kishi’s trying to do the same thing with obito now…i also have a theory that tobi met a dying obito and the tragedy of his situation profoundly affected tobi which in turn provoked him into watching kakashi try to keep his promise to obito…when kakashi failed tobi just used it as proof that the world needs to be under the mugen tsukuyomi..

  14. I’m going with a pain/homunculus theory… Ok that needs explaining. Tonbi is obito. That being said he is in the same way pein was ummm what’s his name… But coupled with a full metal alchamist style homunculus he actually is him “fused” with someone else. The method is debatable some sort ot transplanting, whether it’s just the eye or the whole left side or if it’s a jutsu of any one of a hundred “fill in the blank explinations” is up for grabs. I’ll go on record saying he is obito but there will be a twist. A “yes I’m obito but….. 2-3 issue flashback/explination” of aformentioned obito twist.

  15. @Ten where you applying my therory with your breakdown cause it read like it and you and I are deff about the Obito Tobi therory but like you said it’s not inculsive but eat me anyway hahaha

  16. I have a question. If Obito kept his own eye, would that eye not have gone blind by now?

    (Thanks for posting my bubblition!)

  17. @ Gavin, I was wondering about that too, word on the street is, Tobi might have the EMS and so he bypassed blindness. Fact is Tobi is conditioned to have a MS in order to use the reverse Kamui he’s using because that a mangekyo technique at least that’s the case for Kakashi. Now I don’t know how well kakashi sees with his own eye but maybe once you trade a sharingan it never goes blind.
    Just another loose end Kishi should take care of in the next couple of months.

  18. @Drice

    While I could have probably stood to mention Naruto and Kurama a bit more, to me they had already reached this stage in their friendship when Kurama first merged his chakra with Naruto and, consequently, I have already dedicated entire breakdowns to discussing their relationship and how it has grown. Mentioning it again would mostly be repeating many things I’ve already discussed.

    To me, this was Tobi’s and Kakashi’s chapter and because the mystery of who Tobi is will likely be coming to a close soon, I felt this might have been my last chance to focus on the mystery element behind his identity. Besides that, the breakdown was already around 2000 words so I didn’t want to drag it on any longer.

    But hey, that’s what the comments section is for isn’t it? For all of you to approach subjects I might not mention or to bring your own thoughts to the table to discuss.

    @Grey

    I agree that there’s still a good chance that Tobi isn’t Obito, but not because of reasons such as the evidence being “too obvious.” After all, so many have been against it right up until now despite any clues given so it seems that not everyone will go by evidence in either case.

    Anyway, we’re getting so close to the reveal now that maybe Kishi wants to make it obvious. All I know is that he could easily take this either way and because of that, I won’t denounce any theory as being impossible, lest such a claim should bite me in the rear later.

    @Sage

    I do read all comments on the blog and consider what others like yourself have to say and what you said did make me think a bit more about Tobi’s motives should he be Obito. When I looked back at the Kakashi Gaiden, I found scenes that married with your words about Obito, so I included those particular thoughts in the breakdown. @___@

  19. @Eugen: I’m actually not too convinced by the bypassed blindness thing. I think the thing where you get a new eye from someone else has always been the way characters in the manga have explained it. I think Kakashi only has trouble because it isn’t in his bloodline. Though, Kakashi is still AWESOME for actually succeeding in using it as well as he has. So that still leaves me thinking it isn’t going to be Obito anymore. I’m almost convinced it is Kagami now. He seems more connected than ever. The only reason why I wouldn’t say it was Madara or Izuna is because the power level doesn’t seem to be quite right. I think a fully functional Izuna might rival Madara’s power by now, and I just don’t think that’s the case. I just think Tobi has an incredibly clever power.

  20. @Gavin and Eugen

    You guys aren’t considering what role Hashirama’s cells might be playing in all this. Remember what Itachi said about Shisui’s power and how it can only be activated once every ten years or so, but then went on to mention that if they had senju power it might be a different story? Then also remember how Danzou was able to use Shisui’s eye again within a few hours of each use? Well, to me, that in itself makes it clear that the life force and vitality of the Senju or probably even the Uzumaki has an effect on the eyes of an Uchiha. If it helps the eyes recover faster, then that effect is no doubt possitive and may even help counterbalance the negativce effects of using MS techs.

    I’m not saying that the Senju cells Tobi has would necessarily stop him from going blind altogether, but it may prolong the health of his eye and delay the damage for a much longer period of time. It’s just a factor I believe is worth considering.

  21. @Tenrai Senshi: You’re right. I wasn’t considering that. Still not totally sold on the cells helping with blindness, if in fact Tobi is actually Obito. And still, this makes me think that Kagami is at least in the right place and time for this all to happen. I think the only person with the right ‘hair’ is Obito. But as far as the way things ‘fit’ – I think Kagami feels like a more intense version of Orochimaru. I feel like Kagami could have been a mentor or something to Orochimaru too. Maybe it’s a stretch, but Tobi definitely has senju cells and it definitely seems like he has properties of white zetsu when his limbs fall off. It’s like Tobi is what Orochimaru always wanted to be. It makes it hard to determine age. But it may explain why Tobi’s Obito-eye is way more powerful than Kakashi’s Obito-eye.

    Also, is anyone else rethinking what Orochimaru’s ultimate goals were considering all this? It seems like he was doing much much more than just memorizing all jutsu. He keeps saying that, but why?

  22. @ Gavin, It is true, Kakashi is without a doubt the most adaptive person in this story for being so diverse and for his genius mind. But I think Kakashi is suffering right now from blindness in his eye for one reason only.

    Back when Naruto went after Gaara at the start of shippuden, he, Kakashi, Sakura and Chyio stumbled into Itachi and they battled it out a bit.

    At this time Kakashi said a thing that didn’t make much sense then to Itachi: “How bad did you eyesight get”, or something along those lines.

    It was at this moment Itachi was amazed and figured out Kakashi had unlocked the Mangekyo.

    Now if Kakashi said that it was only because of 2 reasons: Either he had knowledge of the Uchiha’s decaying eyesight once the MS was activate, witch doesn’t seem to likely or he started to loos his own light in his sharingan from his training with Kamui.

    The strange thing is Kakashi, being a non Uchiha as he is was able to sustain that eye and actually he got more and more powerful and quick when using his eye.

    @ Tenrai
    true enough, the senjuu cells would grant that extra power and vitality one needs to utilize a sharingan to it’s true potential if that person were not Uchiha and it could even heal the person judging from what we know about Hashirama, Mito and Naruto’s abilities.

    It’s a situation I’m most eager to see the outcome to.
    But as I said I for one will hate the fact if Tobi were Obito even is the present situation dictates it’s Obito 85%.

  23. @Eugen and Tenrai: Are we basically saying that even though Kakashi had a new eye from Obito – that upon achieving the MS, he would go blind anyway? One would have to obtain an eye after someone ‘else’ achieves MS.

  24. …. in order to not go blind from it. (Perfect MS)

  25. @Gavin

    From what we’ve seen in the manga, Kakashi discovered the weakness of the MS – going blind – after he awakened his own MS. He even addressed Itachi directly on this matter which suggests that Kakashi only knows about it because he, too, is slowly losing his own eyesight from using it. At least, that is what was suggested in these two pages.

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v29/c257/10.html
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v29/c257/11.html

    I don’t think it matters if you’re an Uchiha or a non-Uchiha, because it doesn’t seem to change the fact that you will lose your eyesight from overuse of MS. Kakashi’s advantage is that he hasn’t actually used his that often and he tends to space out his uses more wisely, rather than using it often in successive battles.

    The only way to achieve the EMS from what we know of, is to already have the MS and to then take the eyes of someone who is related to you by blood, to increase the chances of the transfusion being successful and for the eyes to not be rejected by the new host.

  26. Gavin, that’s actually my biggest dilema, if you get a sharingan, even if it’s not a mangekyo, do you still lose the light.
    The thing is, between Uchiha, they traded eyes that already had the MS and ascended to the Eternal level, witch so far doesn’t do anything more then the MS except to keep one from going blind.

    But it wasn’t stated if one would go blind if he had a sharingan transplant like Kakashi had, in the sense that Kakashi didn’t even have a sharingan of his own to compensate the new sharingan light for the one he would, theoretically lose.

    So would Kakashi’s sharingan be a eye that could go all the way to EMS or is it a eye that goes to MS only to need another sharingan implant at the inevitable loss of the light??

    That’s the real question

  27. To simplify things even more , would a successfully transplanted sharingan, in any situation be capable of becoming EMS even if it’s taken at the base level (one – three tomoe)?

  28. :)) Tenrai, we’re saying the same thing :))=))

  29. So, is there still going to be any Naruto on Wednesday?

  30. I’ve never had a problem admitting it’s Obito’s eye but even with all these new developments, i still can’t agree with the theory , that Tobi is Obito. Some of the things Tobi claims to have done have taken place before Obito was even born and i’m talking about starting akatsuki and giving Nagato the rinnegan. Jiraiya Said, Nagato had already mastered all chakra natures by the time he was 8, and we know he had those eyes for a while before then. So If the ame orphans were Jiraiya’s students before Minato was, then there is no way a Student of Minato could give his teachers senpai(so to speak) eyes he obtained as a child. Madara also acknowledges Nagato and the fact that the heavenly rebirth technique wasn’t used, which would give Tobi’s statement about giving him those eye’s for that technique more validity.

    Like Kagami could possibly be alive and have the reason to give an Uzumaki the eyes because he’s not a descendant of the younger brother and doesn’t possess the excessive life force needed to use most of it’s techniques, which also explains why even Tobi couldn’t either. the older brother theory has validity for the same reason as Kagami, but I’m not too sure about the Izuna theory because they showed parts of his funeral so it doesn’t seem likely that he’s alive. In the poll i said a creation of Madara’s because it makes sense that he would create lifeforms to carry out his plans after death in a way to leapfrog through the afterlife.

    But it does seem weird that Tobi is acting so weird towards Kakashi now, maybe Tobi was like a parasite version of Zetsu and when he took Obito’s eye he may have taken his body and has access to his memories. I don’t know how many crime mysteries you guys watch, but you’ll notice the first things they do is gather evidence and establish a timeline. So now Naruto is 16 and Kakashi is 30,go back 16 years and Kakashi is 14 and we are only 1 year after the Kannabi Bridge incident since that happened on Kakashi’s 13th birthday. So here is one of the flaws in the Obito theory, for Obito to be the one who fought Minato on that night, in 1 years time he managed to get his sharingan to evolve and considering he was slow compared to other Uchiha’s doesn’t seem very likely. also he’s supposed to kill is best friend or possibly his loved one. If Obito was to awaken his mangekyou he could have killed rin but then again he shouldn’t be holding that against Kakashi. plus telling Minato that you waited a long time for this, and that time only being a year is also :S , plus that guy that fought Minato didn’t look 14.

  31. Alright all you Obito loves, I’ma through you a curve ball and say Tobi is Obitio’s father! Bam, discuss that!

    He would have known the Team Obito was part of. Tobi would have been old enough to participate in the war and might have been keeping a close eye on Obito. He might have seen what happend or heard about it while getting intelligence . That could explain the similarity in the eye techniques too. That could also be how he notice Kakashi at the tomb, it could have been the tomb of his beloved son. Also, the reason Tobi says he’s a nobody is because he was also used as versatile tool by the ANBU root to complete missions during that war. Hell Tobi’s dad might have been old enough to participate in the War the Legendary 3 sannin were in. He also did tons of great things that no body acknowledged. He was also very skilled as an Uchiha but didn’t get the praise because everyone else was noticed during the 3rd Great shinobi War (Kakashi of the Sharingan and Minato the yellow flash) He turned to the dark side consumed by the emptiness of his life. Man, so much more to say. But you get the jest, Tobi is Obito’s dad!

  32. *it’s suppose to say “Obito’s dad” not “Tobi’s dad”

  33. That is also why Itachi trained with him as well because he was a strong Uchiha that nobody new about. not even his own Clan people. So he left train and learn by himself. During this time he was founding Akatsuki, and giving Nagato eyes and doing all sorts of funny business. He wanted to help Itachi get revenge on the Uchiha because they were too busy planning their revenge party instead of mourning his dead son

  34. @Tenri; It’s like you said, a great mystery presents every clue to your face with the ability to solve it soo simply but still make difficult without it having to be difficult in the first place

  35. He could be around the same age as sannin, and look how fast they were at their already old age, and he looks about that age too give maybe 5 or 10 years older than Jirayia and maybe he could have met and been under the tutelage of Madara

  36. Obito being Tobi is getting more and more likely. Especially Tobi talking about Kakashi and his regrets is a strong hint at this. BUT, like tommy already pointed out, this leaves massive plotholes.
    Also, if Tobi is Obito that means the catalyst to his dark side was his own defeat and Rin’s death?! Really?!! That will be the worst background story to any villain in history.

    Nagato’s descent into darkness took more than 12 years in which he had to endure his parents death, live in a war torn country, lose members of his Akatsuki and ultimately losing his best friend Yahiko. Justified Madness.

    Sasuke has been filled with hatred since he was little and has been tormented by his brother ever since said brother totally anihilated the family. He then finds out Itachi did all of that after putting the village above the family. Justified Vengeance.

    Madara has been in constant conflict with Hashirama and the Senju and just wouldn’t play second fiddle in peace times. When he tried to take the throne by force his friends and family exiled and dishonored him. Justified anger.

    But Obito decided to go darkside on a whim?…. Lame!

    Kishi better have a damn good reason why Obito went darkside because if he doesn’t (because the above is not) the manga will seriously suffer.
    Hero’s are only as good as their villains. Naruto deserves a better villain than a snotty Uchiha brat who decided to blame the world after he lost a girl he never had.

    P.S. Tobi’s goal is exactly the same as Madara’s. Infinite Tsukuyomi. I can’t help but feel Madara has had something to do with Tobi’s aspirations of plugging everyone into the Matrix. Also, Madara seemed less than conscerned when Kabuto told him Tobi might not be playing for the same team as Madara anymore. Just food for thought.

  37. This… this right here is what I’ve been waiting for. This is the closure I so desperately need with this manga.

    Tobi… you sweet sweet son of bitch. I love ya. Thank you for finally… dare I say finally? Yes… finally putting this to rest.

    Long live Tobito.

  38. well well well… look who it is… 🙂

  39. @redbaron correction, Nagato = Yahiko killed himself like an idiot. Sasuke = Itachi shoved revenge down his throat like an idiot. Madara = spoiled brat with a temper tantrum. Meaning that nearly every villain with a dojutsu In the series was caused by some of the dumbest people.

  40. People, we have I Are Awesomeness royalty in the house !!!!

  41. Nothing on my obito theory I see… Might as well get a dojutsu and start plaotting my revenge against weareawesomeness.

  42. @IRA

    Well, it seems to be commonplace that when the manga becomes interesting, old ghosts suddenly start rising from their graves and appearing on the blog again. And I see you’re a long-tern Tobito supporter as well. Lol.

    @Wiseman

    The clues may be getting more obvious now because we are on the verge of the reveal. I’d say we’ll know Tobi’s identity in the next chapter or two, so it’s possible Kishi just wants to get it over with now.

    @Baron

    I don’t think Obito would join the dark side on a whim. I also think that if Tobi does end up being Obito, Kishi would fill in the blanks and explain how or why. Part of what’s interesting about a villain is their motives so if Tobi is Obito, I would be keenly interested to learn how he became what he is.

    It’s best to give Kishi a chance with his story before we call “lame.” Then, after he’s explained it all, if it still doesn’t make sense we can flame all we like. I, of course, am well aware of how much he could stuff it up if he doesn’t handle things delicately, so I’m hoping things go well.

  43. I still claim that Tobi is an assemblage of parts found by white zetzu on the battlefield (or by oozing around graveyards). Obito’s other eye, some bits of 1st Hokage, a little Uchiha here and there… A messed up mix of psychology arose (who am i? i’m nothing!), and Madara found out about this.. entity, and convinced it to follow him. I also believe that white zetzu was an “accidental” creation of So6P while he was tinkering with creation of life forms…

  44. Number 44th @___@

    Nice Breakdown Tenrai!

    To be honest, I am beginning to feel meh about Tobi being anyone… It has been building for sooo long now, if its Obito then ‘hooray’ but I just want it to be done now, we been focusing solely on this theory for maybe 4 to 5 Chapters putting it into perspective its almost been a month with Kishi using “flashbacks” to stretch it out more and more… I believe chapter 600 Tobi will be revealed and though I don’t support Obito = Tobi, I think that is where Kishi is going with this… If its anyone else when the mask comes off everyone there will be like “Who the hell?” while if it is Obito at least Kakashi should recognize him.

    <__<

    Again Naruto gets posed with a question, "If you fail, what will you do?" and in the end they say "Well I became friends with a Tailed Beast that lives inside me so I will bring peace to the world…. ttebyo" I don't know why Kishi keeps doing this to me its just annoying, Hope is good but Naruto has no way to transform that into a working model for peace? Not at all! and even if he is the Savior then when he dies after some time the cycle will repeat again… He keeps asking Naruto this and all Naruto does is run head first into the situation @__@ Its like Pein all over again

  45. What is this? Plot-hole-no-jutsu? What is kamui? It’s not one of the four elements. Tenrai, I think you’re on to something. Kakashi may have unlocked the MS through a life and death situation, but it does seem a little contrived. Regardless, though, there is another way to spam MS other than being a Uchiha, and that’s by having Hashirama’s cells(much weaker spamming ability though). If you recall during Tobi’s battle with Konan, there was a little conversation they had during their battle. Apparently, Tobi can only hold his jutsu for 5 minutes. Why? Perhaps it’s because Tobi is somehow using Zetsu’s body for the proper chakra?

    The sure money is on Obito being Tobi. Almost everything points to those two being the same, but here are problems like the age and the apparent death. There’s also the motive. I could see, though, how Obito would be upset about Rin’s death and want to prevent that from ever happening again by “ending all war”.

    Let’s go over what we know. We know that Zetsu makes up an unknown amount of Tobi’s body. We also know that Obito was supposed to die. We know his face was smashed by a boulder, and that Tobi wears a mask. There is also the popular consensus that Madara used Hashirama’s cells to make Zetsu. We know Madara became mortally wounded from the fight with Hashirama and that Zetsu somehow saved him. We also know Madera figured out how to acquire the Rinnengan by reading the ancient stone monument in Konoha. There is also the mystery of the Tobi with the long hair and the Tobi with the short hair. If they are truly two different people, then what brings their dreams and ambitions in line? This got me wondering, “what if Zetsu was the guy carrying the orders from the old Madara to the new one?” Picture it like this: In the beginning, Zetsu keeps the original Madera alive. Madera searches for and discovers the secret process to obtaining the Rinnengan. I know this is going to sound crazy, but I believe that the Rinnengan is somehow related to the real Madera’s death. Maybe he knew he was going to die and therefore had to make a plan? If so, Madera would have to find two candidates: one who can bring him back to life(Nagato) and one who can make sure everything went according to plan(Tobi). So, perhaps Madera got to Obito just before the cave collapsed? He then could have inserted Zetsu into Obito. This would replace any damaged parts of the body including half his face(which explains the mask). My theory is that Madera had to do something like transfer his ocular abilities into Nagato in order to create the Rinnengan. Knowing this process would somehow kill him, like perhaps it did to Itachi, Madara had Zetsu inhabit Obito’s body with the order to protect and guide Nagato so that he could be resurrected. Obito’s mind, with the pain of loss, may have changed the original plan from bringing Madara back to instead casting Infinite Tsukuyomi. The real question is, “How Much of Tobi IS Obito?”

  46. @Visionary.

    We can’t say something is contrived until we are given all the details. Right now we know little, but are assuming much, therefor if anything is contrived, it is our own theories because we are the ones trying to fill in the gaps here.

    All we as readers can do is come up with theories and discuss them, but we cannot write Kishi’s story for him. It’s up to him to give us the details and only then can we determine whether his answers seem fishy or not.

  47. @Pein

    Just because you don’t know Naruto’s plan doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one. When he spoke to the toad Sage he said he knows what he needs to do, so it sounds to me like he has an idea.

    In any case, as I discussed with you before, Naruto doesn’t need to prove himself to Tobi. He doesn’t need to answer his questions or justify himself and in the end, why should he? Why justify yourself to someone who probably won’t listen anyway?

  48. @Tenrai

    I said seemed because Kamui was developed during the time skip, but that doesn’t matter. What I was really trying to get at was that Rin’s death may have played a part in Kakashi getting the Mangekyo Sharingan. We learn about both Kamui and Rin’s death after the time skip.

  49. I agree with arpotu, and I go beyond that saying that its linked to black zetsu´s other part. It began with Madara and Hashirama, and then found an identity and something to fight against when got a hold of Obito, going downhill (XD) from there (this is new XD) Ive been saying this for a long time, and I have my brother to back me up XD. And I think pein0 agreed with me as well sometime back. Im the oracle! 😄
    Now ill read teh breakdown and teh comments before next chapter is out, is it out today?

  50. @nikeairforce- seems naruto and bleach are one break this week, nooooooooooooooooooo!!! 😦

  51. @visionary

    We don’t know if Kamui was actually developed during the timeskip or if it was awoken before that. All we really know was that Kakashi only showed it for the first time after the timeskip but for all we know, he’s had the MS for longer than that.

    Like you say, Rin’s death may have something to do with Kakashi awakening the MS, or perhaps even Minato’s for all we know, but in saying that, it may also have something to do with Tobi awakening his MS as well. That is, if Tobi is Obito.

    @Bakakage

    Actually, I think the chapter we got on Sunday was actually an early release of this week’s chapter, seeing as how the break was actually meant to be last week.

  52. “I also think that if Tobi does end up being Obito, Kishi would fill in the blanks and explain how or why.”

    I should hope so. Because losing his own identity and losing Rin (who he never had to begin with) is not nearly enough explanation, it doesn’t even begin to explain his motives. I’d also like to see how Kishi works his way out of the massive plot holes he would create by revealing Obito as Tobi. I fear he’s gonna fail miserably though. Just like how he failed miserably with Hashirama who supposedly died during the 1st Great Ninja War and is now revered as an OP God that even Madara (who is only playing with the 5 Kages of today) with all his hax could not defeat…
    And that’s just one of the examples of the many failures Kishi has written so far, but it is a very important one.

    I see no valid reason for Obito to go darkside in 3-4 years, become haxed beyond hax in that same time, go toe to toe with one of the most dangerous Kages (THE most dangerous Kage, or Ninja for that matter, in my mind) in the manga and infinitely spout intricate knowledge about all things Ninja every time he opens his mouth. The Tobi that fought Minato didn’t look like or acted as a 15-16 year old Uchiha brat who had just discovered the secrets to the Mangekyo. That Tobi looked like and acted as a war veteran with great understandings of all things Konoha.

    His most curious comment, and one of the reasons for me to find it hard to swallow Obito being Tobi, is his comment to Kushina before releasing Kyuubi.
    Mantisguy and tommy already mentioned this but none of the ObitoTobeliebers will go anywhere near trying to explain it.
    “http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/501/7”
    Tobi; “Do you have ANY idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?!”

    If Obito is Tobi then why would he make such a comment? Was he planning all of it before he got crushed by rocks and left 4 Dead? Did he secretly have a crush on Kushina and figured he was never gonna compete with Minato so then he decided if he couldn’t have her nobody could?
    There’s absolutely no reasonable explanation for that comment if you consider Obito was the one who said it.

  53. @Tenrai add Teuchi out of love to ashes! 😄
    And, i loved the part about the movie! Its a huge spoiler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Tobi merged with Obito, now I have no doubt. Look at dark Naruto, he has the eye in the same place, so when Tobi merged with Obito, he go the eye there, and only there, cause there was only 1 eye!

    Bubble:
    Tobi: Put your arm through me…
    *And regarding second panel*
    And it stretches!
    Caption: We all know what Kakashi is going to put trough Tobi next…

  54. @redbaron it’s not thcat couldn’t the defeat the kage. The jerk didn’t wanted defeat them, just showcase he unstoppableness.
    About Rin’s death didn’t Kakashi indirectly mention her death in part one.

  55. @redbaron

    You need to remember Zetsu is just as old as Madera and can take on any form. He probably has Hashirama’s cells so that limited spamming of the Sharingan is possible. What if Zetsu was an earlier attempts at cloning Hashirama? If you look at Madara’s mask you’ll notice that it kind of resembles those worn by ANBU, the same people who created Yamato!

  56. Bubble correction, as it is Kakashi san who is talking:

    Kakashi: So Naruto put his arm through Tobi´s head, and it stretched… Now, what if…
    Caption: We all know what Kakashi is going to put trough Tobi next…

  57. sheeeeeeeeeeeit, after next, its not “…” but “!”, like follows:
    Caption: We all know what Kakashi is going to put trough Tobi next!
    Also forgot to mention, awesome breakdown!

  58. @ visionary1200
    Zetsu is confirmed already to be a creation made from Hashirama’s harvested cells that Madara stole.

    And Yamato was created by Orochimaru, he was the only one out of 60 (i think) test babies who survived the implant of Hashirama cells but Oro never knew about his success because he was found out by the ANBU and Hiruzen ruined his experiments so he had to flee.

    Sorry for my lazyness but trying to find the chapters in witch this is stated will take up some much needed time I don’t dispose of right now. Hope someone else posts them.

  59. @Eugen I remember a specific chapter mention yamato having hashiramas power but I dont remember however this one should give what your saying some accountability http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v55/c515/11.html

  60. @Redbaron

    We never saw Rin at the time Tobi attacked Konoha, so it’s quite possible that by then, she was already dead. I think her death was a good enough reason for Obito to want to attack Konoha, don’t you think? Especially if Konoha was somehow at fault for her death. It might also explain “do you know how long I’ve waited for this?”

    The other explanation is that – once again as I’ve mentioned before – Tobi was playing the part of Madara at the time. He might have said that just to reinforce that belied that he was Madara and not anyone else, knowing that Madara would have had a gripe with Konoha. I don’t see why this isn’t possible considering how he’s twisted the truth or outright lied before to mislead others. You, however, seem to be under the impression that everything he says is genuine and should be taken as truth even though we know well enough by now that Tobi is simply not an completely honest person.

    There are simply too many unknown details and too many possibilities to jump to conclusions just yet, if you ask me. We can’t argue for or against a particular subject with absolute certainty until more information is revealed. In the end, I’ve only always said that there’s a good possibility that Tobi was Obito and that I personally feel that he is. I’ve never said it was 100% certain or that there are no other possibilities, because I know that this is just one of many and that any of them could come to fruition.

  61. How the heck did the First Hokage can’t unbind him from Edo Tensei but Madara can when Hashirama is one of the most powerful shinobi ever live in this manga.. Something tells me he is going to be back. I’m still gonna go with Hashirama as Tobi.

  62. @pisbolman Because Madara is a Uchiha, he has no weakness, he possesses the ultimate plot no Jutsu and final level of Eien Mangekyo Sharinhax. Hashirama and Tobirama despite their awesomeness. Unfortunately they are not Uchiha nor do they possess the Sharinhax.

  63. @Pisbolman

    Allow me to explain…

    When someone is being controlled by Edo Tensei, their own actions are overridden by the will of their summoner. In other words, even if they want to do something, they cannot do it unless the the person controlling them makes them do it. Going by this, it is – for all intents and purposes – impossible for an Edo Tensei summon to perform the hand seals required to release themselves unless they are ordered to do so by the person who summoned them.

    What this means is that Hashirama was unable to free himself from Edo Tensei because he was unable to control his own actions, thus he could not perform the hand seals required to break away from Orochimaru’s control. The same goes for Madara, seeing as how for the entire duration of his battle against the five Kage he never once attempted to free himself because he was technically unable to.

    The only time an Edo Tensei summon regains control of his own body, is at the very moment their spirit leaves their body when Edo Tensei is released, as explained by Dan when he regained control over his own body just as his spirit was leaving it. In other words, it is the only possible time that an Edo tensei summon could possibly perform the hand seals needed to break their contract with the jutsu and thus free themselves from it. It was at this time, when Madara’s soul was about to leave his body, that he broke his contract with Kabuto while he was able to and that is how he ended up the way he is now. Hashirama, on the other hand, was never given such an opportunity because in his case, Orochimaru never released Edo Tensei and so Hashirama was never at any moment given control over his own body to allow him to perform the hand seals required. In addition to that, Hashirama was sealed away by the Reaper Death seal, which is in stark contrast to Madara’s situation where he had to face no such jutsu.

    I think that explains just about everything. I also believe that Tobi being Hashirama is VERY highly unlikely because of the mere fact that Hashirama’s soul has been sealed away. Unless someone know show to get someone’s soul back from the death god’s stomach, I just don’t see how Tobi could be Hashirama because evidence is strongly against it.

  64. Thanks for the broad explanation. Now I know even if I already read about it.

    I do am aware about Hashirama getting sealed that time. I just can’t accept that he just got defeated that easily by the 3rd and not only that Tobirama is around too! But Madara even in Kabuto’s control is damn powerful as we all saw it. I know we are all gonna be enlighten by Kishi on how Hashirama die or did he really died? And how did Orochimaru got a hold of the first DNA. I believe it has got to do with the place Oro and Sasuke are going.

    I agree with all the other that the timelime doesn’t fit to Obito even as we all saw that Obito’s body was crushed by boulder of stones.

  65. Nice breakdown and awesome theories from everyone, as always. Sadly I never seem able to contribute, my mind forms no theories, it just leans towards Izuna since a while now.
    @tenrai: do u play d3 btw? Saw some ‘TenraiSenshi’ posts there 🙂

  66. Wouldn’t be interesting if Naruto, who oozes life force when in his chakra cloak mode, could find a way to counteract the death god jitsu, and release all souls who have been trapped there? Return of Hashman and the 2nd, his parents, 3rd Hokage, the 2nd half of Kurama’s chakra, and all nefarious life forms who had been sealed there previously. Ka-, and might I add, boom…

  67. You want Oro’s hands back? I sure as hell wouldn’t want those things anywhere near me children!! It’s a trap!

  68. I have an interesting theory on the Death God Seal. I think the Kyuubi is going to sacrifice itself to seal it and Madara in with him once it comes to the end of the Manga. That way the 3 Hokages are released and the Kyubbi gets its revenge on Madara for the rest of eternity. Basically karma saying “you wanted infinite tsukiomi so you can control everyone? how about the exact opposite, where your tormented by the thing you tormented for all eternity!”

    The Kyubbi is going to release it’s self from Naruto, giving Naruto the chance he never had to be a normal shinobi. And who knows, maybe Kurama’s Yin would be reborn, and every one knows the yin holds the light force of the balance as oppose to the physical and negative force the yang holds. You heard it hear force for the win!

  69. Bubble: You’re doing it wrong!
    Caption: That’s not how you give head.

  70. Bubble: As you can see, you tried to punch his face, but did not punch his face.
    Caption: Kakashi spells it out for Naruto.

  71. bubble: its about time kishi give me my due, had to make up from Pain arc.
    Caption: the true G of Naruto kakaishi the motherfucka who puts the G in genius.

  72. @red i know but just think like noone in naruto unvs that someoneone goes evil for a women that they love and was twisted by someone like starwars which i think is influenced in this story alot when you think, and the mastermind behind it all is Madara which sugest and Tobi who could be Obito could fall for the twisted views likeb all villlians in Naruto. Then take on the persona which hasnt happen yet of their creator who is Madadra who knows and been around for everything,

  73. Waaaaaah! im completely torn between these two theories! On one hand i think Tobi is Obito given all the clues given on this latest manga and i also think Tobi is Izuna as well. Knowing all the Konoha secrets is not that easy. He may have read it in a scroll or somewhere but still, having ill feelings based on these is way out of line. I thinks it may have to be both. Remember Tobi on the anime version? He seems to be schizophrenic in a way… Playful and Serious on different intervals all through out!

  74. Hey guys, do you think Kakashi might end up accepting what has happened in his life and, in the end, take off his mask to represent that? I think it would be pretty cool.

  75. @lazy and i love in the anime how they did not show Kakashi gaiden which happen before shippuden until we seen the schizophernic tobi when he was goofing around during the Deidara and Sauke fight then proclaim im Madara to Pain and first appearence with Kakashi in which we for the only second time see the sharigan and behold its Obito’s eye!

  76. dude, try a comma, period, or any form of punctuation 😉

  77. @arpotu Nah man, you have to say it all in one breath! That is the challenge… *reads the comment with all breathing*…passes out from lack of Oxygen

  78. okiguessyourerightafterallwhyshouldweusesillythingslikethattobehonestisupposeitcouldbeworseifwewerenteventalkingaboutmangaandusednospacesbetweenwordsonthatnoteiwillbringupatopicwhichihaventseendiscussedhereinalltheyearsivebeenavisitorisitpossiblethattobiisebichuyouknowthathamsterfromthefourpartseriesallthoseyearsagowellithinkitwasfourpartsitmighthavebeensixpartsmanthatwassomefunnystufformaybetobiistentenwouldntthatbeaplottwistehomgijustrealizedtherecanbenootheranswertobiiskonohamaru!

  79. drat…foiled by formatting… fine – the truth is revealed!! I AM TOBI!!!

  80. “I think her death was a good enough reason for Obito to want to attack Konoha, don’t you think?”

    No, not even close to a good enough reason. If your girlfriend would be killed by someone, would you go and kill their entire village? Of course not.
    And Rin wasn’t even his girlfriend…

    “It might also explain “do you know how long I’ve waited for this?””

    I don’t see how. That comment clearly indicates a very lengthy space of time. 3-4 years (or shorter, as I doubt Rin died immediately after Obito) is not a very lengthy space of time. Also, that comment is clearly about gaining control over the Kyuubi.

    “The other explanation is that – once again as I’ve mentioned before – Tobi was playing the part of Madara at the time. He might have said that just to reinforce that belied that he was Madara and not anyone else, knowing that Madara would have had a gripe with Konoha.”

    He was gonna kill Kushina. Who was she gonna tell that Tobi was Madara? Also, when Minato asked him whether or not he was Madara he didn’t try to confirm it. After Minato said he couldn’t be because Madara was dead he only said; “Oh, I don’t know about that.”

    ” I don’t see why this isn’t possible considering how he’s twisted the truth or outright lied before to mislead others.”

    Because he didn’t claim to be Madara when he attacked Konoha. His only purpose was to gain control over the Kyuubi and destroy Konoha.

    “You, however, seem to be under the impression that everything he says is genuine and should be taken as truth even though we know well enough by now that Tobi is simply not an completely honest person.”

    That can work against your theory as well. I could say for instance that Tobi claiming he got Obito’s eye at the Kanabi bridge was a lie as well. It could very well be Madara or Zetsu who plucked the eye out of Obito’s corpse and Tobi is only saying he got it there to rattle Kakashi.
    We could simply assume everything Tobi says is a lie. But answer me this. Why would Tobi lie to someone he knew was about to die?

  81. @redbaron “No, not even close to a good enough reason. If your girlfriend would be killed by someone, would you go and kill their entire village? Of course not.” That trully made me laugh. i started snorting like a pig too lol. I like how blunt and as-a-matter-of-factly you said it

  82. What do you think if Tobi was Obito’s father? That could fit in to a lot of stuff, and you can fit other pieces to events that happened in the story line

  83. I think someone eliminated the Uzumaki clan and Hashirama’s Son was pissed when he found out that mom’s relatives got wiped out by dad’s relatives…. I think red Baron brings up alot of good points.

  84. I think the death of the Uzumaki clan is at the center of Tobi’s motive since one single death by Rin seems hardly enough to want to start a war just to initiate an illusion

  85. @Redbaron

    “No, not even close to a good enough reason. If your girlfriend would be killed by someone, would you go and kill their entire village? Of course not.
    And Rin wasn’t even his girlfriend…”

    So it’s fine for Nagato to go down the villainous path because his friend died, but we write off the idea that Obito might do the same because the person he loved died? Seems legit.

    In any case, why do you suppose the details behind Rin’s death have been hidden for so long? If her death has nothing to do with this situation, why didn’t Kishi mention how she died until now?

    “He was gonna kill Kushina. Who was she gonna tell that Tobi was Madara? Also, when Minato asked him whether or not he was Madara he didn’t try to confirm it. After Minato said he couldn’t be because Madara was dead he only said; “Oh, I don’t know about that.””

    It still seems like he was trying to imply it though. At the very least, he knew the impression was there and so he tried to reinforce it.

    “That can work against your theory as well. I could say for instance that Tobi claiming he got Obito’s eye at the Kanabi bridge was a lie as well. It could very well be Madara or Zetsu who plucked the eye out of Obito’s corpse and Tobi is only saying he got it there to rattle Kakashi.”

    The difference however, is that I already know that Tobi may not be Obito, and I’ve never denied that. Therefor, I am well aware of the fact that even the things Tobi is saying now in these latest chapters may be said purely for the sake of misleading others. I’ve even mentioned the fact that Tobi may just be using Obito’s eye therefor my theory isn’t simply one-dimensional, nor have I ever closed my mind to other possibilities.

    “We could simply assume everything Tobi says is a lie. But answer me this. Why would Tobi lie to someone he knew was about to die?”

    Because nothing is ever certain and that was made clear by the fact that Kushina did not, in fact, die. In any case, since when has something like that ever stopped Tobi from monologuing just before he was about to kill someone? Remember Tobi vs Konan?

    But here’s my question. If you just recently admitted that there is a chance Tobi could be Obito, then why now are you acting as if it is once again an impossibility?

  86. @Ashes

    I see you’re back to comment. Nice to see you on the blog again. @____@

  87. @Tenrai

    Thanks…. it seems a whole lot hasn’t really happened in the manga except some fighting. We just have a resurgence of Tobi theory debate especially about Obito. I haven’t read the last 3 chapters but I find that I can’t help myself when it comes to Obito being Tobi. ( I hate the theory) something that’s been debated forever.

    However I will point out that Hashirama’s son is an absolute mystery but let’s just think about this for a minute. The son of the Hashirama the legendary and Mito…possibly Tsunade’s daddy and we haven’t heard one word about him. He would be village lore. Yet he’s absent from any comments in the manga. He would have knowledge about the fox. He would be privy to his uncle’s knowledge about all things medical. Also he might hold a grudge against whoever killed off his mother’s clan. Also I’m not sure but I think Hashirama was dead when Kushina ( the Uzumaki refugee) was recruited to take the Fox from Mito. Taking the fox insured Mito’s death. So Hashirama’s death followed by Mito’s death ( for the sake of the village). That would be hard on anyone. Also we don’t know who decided to sack the Uzumaki clan but that would definitely give reasons for the trouble in the world. It would explain the Fox’s familiarity with Tobi .The Fox did try to escape when Mito was pregnant, the elders informed Kushina later in order that they seclude her away to an undisclosed location in order to avoid someone taking advantage of the moment( wow that didn’t work)

    maybe Tobi/Hashirama’s son and Kagami were friends….. ( the Senju killed off Kagami?) none of this has any evidence. I understand that… I’m just thinking that there is a sense of a giant blank spot in Konoha history over a notable figure. I think Red Baron has some points… I don’t necessarily agree with all of them. Sasuke wanted to kill a whole village because of his parents but Tobi he goes to war over making peace through an Illusion. So he’s willing to kill everyone in order for the Tsyukomi(spl? Moon’s Eye Plan). Maybe he’s angry about mom and dad’s death, his mother’s clan massacred and the clan refugees used as beast storehouses using them as weapons.

    I don’t know why he would steal Obito’s eye but I have no doubt it’s Obito’s eye.

    i’m not going to try and clear up the difficulties of my selection. All we have is surface evidence. I would rather wait until Sasuke is done with his sidequest to really make a decision before I get trolled by Kishi. Obito is a natural deflection from the possible true person behind the mask. I have no doubt the personal comments he is making to Kakashi is sincere but we haven’t a clue if someone else could make these comments to Kakashi, other than Obito. The automatic jump maybe natural “Obito equals Tobi” but not necessarily correct. When has Kishi done anything we expected? 3/4ths of us thought Kabuto would die. Sasuke bringing Orochimaru back was a surprise. my point is that from a readers perspective where we have none of the underlying history on hand we can only go by the surface evidence. It’s like trying to determine the weather by wetting your finger and sticking it in the air. Honestly we know so little about anything happening in the village, we don’t know enough about the fight between Madara and the 1st hokage, We don’t know why the Uchiha rebelled, We don’t have a clue what happened to the Uzumaki clan or the relationship between Hashirama and Tobimara, We don’t know much about the sons of the Sage of Six Paths. we don’t know what happened to Kagami or even Rin ( whose death is referenced but never seen) . We don’t know what’s on the tablet that only the Rinnegan can read. there are too many things lacking to make a decision. We are given so little important information that to come to a conclusion is fine if we are willing to say it’s tenuous. Just because Kishi seems to be making gestures towards the Obito possibility doesn’t mean there is a forceful enough argument for it. I am more hesistant to make too many assertions…. I always think of the phrase “a man whose
    argument is quite solid, quite coherent, and quite wrong.” It reminds me to hesistate a little especially where one tries to predict revelation. Revelation ( metaphor the curtain being pulled back, secrets confessed) It implies that it’s a secret, a mystery that the author is trying to build the enjoyment of anticipation of the reveal.

  88. @Ashes

    If you haven’t read the last thee chapters, then I would suggest you do, because Tobi’s behavior may give you a lot of clues, whether those clues support or work against your theory.

    I know you hate the Obito = Tobi theory, but if you read these past three chapters, you’d see why I feel like the theory is becoming more plausible as we go. Still, I’m not saying that means it’s certain, but at this point in time, I don’t think anyone can absolutely say without any reasonable doubt that Tobi could not be Obito.

    Another thing I thought of was the possibility of what role Obito’s space-time jutsu might have played in all this. Perhaps before his death, it activated to instinctively preserve him and locked him away in another dimension where time continued to flow and yet, comparitively, time passed slowly in the real world. So when he came back, years had passed for him while only maybe a few months had passed in the real world.

    After he discovers (for example) that the great war was over and Rin was dead and after going somewhat insane from being stuck in darkness and isolation for many years, he cracked and when psycho-pigeon on us. This is just one example Kishi could use to explain many things regarding Tobi and is just one of many theoretical possibilities. It’s part of the reason I feel we can’t write off a theory until we have absolute, irrefutable evidence to disprove it, because if I can come up with this kind of stuff after just a few minutes of thought, it makes me wonder what Kishi may have come up with after years of planning.

    I also like the Menma theory as well, which I mentioned in the breakdown. @____@

  89. well I never said Obito was impossible just that I hate the theory. I can accept the plausible logical connections between ( in my opinion thin) evidence behind the possibility, just because I can see the reasoning doesn’t mean I like it. Just like I understand why Kishi needed to introduce us to “merry round jutsu” with Kabuto but that doesn’t mean that any of Sasuke and Itachi versus Kabuto was pleasant or desirable for me.

  90. So an evil Naruto Doppelganger from another dimension? I don’t know how I feel about that. The age issue has been a huge question that has constantly been brought out. I think the problem is that it’s hard to address that with Menma unless he somehow was transported back in time to before Naruto was born

  91. “So it’s fine for Nagato to go down the villainous path because his friend died, but we write off the idea that Obito might do the same because the person he loved died? Seems legit.”

    You know full well Yahiko’s death was only the push that send Nagato over the edge. He had lost his parents, lived in an endless war, lost friends in Akatsuki, got betrayed by his village leader and THEN lost Yahiko.
    Obito’s ‘tragedy’ doesn’t even come close to the pain Nagato experienced.

    “In any case, why do you suppose the details behind Rin’s death have been hidden for so long? If her death has nothing to do with this situation, why didn’t Kishi mention how she died until now? ”

    Because nobody cares? I sure as hell don’t. There’s nothing that made me care for her. She was filler at best.

    “It still seems like he was trying to imply it though. At the very least, he knew the impression was there and so he tried to reinforce it.”

    No he wasn’t. If not for Minato reasoning that only Madara was capable of infiltrating Konoha and controlling the Kyuubi like that Tobi wouldn’t have said anything to imply or hint he was Madara. Tobi only used the name Madara to trick Nagato and Konan to follow his orders and the villages to go into war with him. During his attack on Konoha the name Madara would have had absolutely no meaning.

    “The difference however, is that I already know that Tobi may not be Obito, and I’ve never denied that. Therefor, I am well aware of the fact that even the things Tobi is saying now in these latest chapters may be said purely for the sake of misleading others. I’ve even mentioned the fact that Tobi may just be using Obito’s eye therefor my theory isn’t simply one-dimensional, nor have I ever closed my mind to other possibilities.”

    And I have? LOL. Now that’s a joke. I am constantly considering all options, the only problem is that every theory has major flaws. We can make arguments about every single one of them that will make people say; “Wow, how could Tobi be anyone else?” but at the same time arguments can be made that will make people say; “Right, fat chance Tobi is that guy.”

    “Because nothing is ever certain and that was made clear by the fact that Kushina did not, in fact, die. In any case, since when has something like that ever stopped Tobi from monologuing just before he was about to kill someone? Remember Tobi vs Konan?”

    And with Konan he also wasn’t lying. See the connection?

    “But here’s my question. If you just recently admitted that there is a chance Tobi could be Obito, then why now are you acting as if it is once again an impossibility?”

    I never said Obito being Tobi is an impossibilty. I’m just pointing out the massive plotholes Kishi is digging here. If you don’t like that I suggest you send Kishi an email because as much as I’d like to I’m not capable of changing them.

  92. @ashes welcome back!
    I have a weird ass theory what if Tobi was Mikoto instead? Mikoto w
    was the last person Kushina talked too. It would be a move no one saw coming.

  93. Thanks Katonkage! My presence here will probably be short-lived.

  94. @Kantonkage Kishi has said that he doesn’t write women very well and unless Mikoto is flat chested or that “robe” of Tobi’s is really big, (I’m going to say that it’s highly unlikely.) Her deep mannish voice impersonation is incredible :D. Still I give you points for creativity. I think she died at Itachi’s hands.

  95. well if tobi is anyone but obito at this point then that person sure is one hell of liar. we were sure he was madara, now we’re sure he’s obito..I don’t think I’m even gonna throw my hit in the ring on this one. just sittin back n watchin it unfold

  96. hat*

  97. Obito’s dad!

  98. Obito’s elder brother obviously. Could be Obito seeing that his MS could have activated due his extreme sadness of not confessing to Rin only for his brother to steal them.

  99. @Kanton

    If Obito had a brother, then their eye techniques would probably be similar, kinda like how Itachi’s and Sasuke’s are similar being blood brothers, so there wouldn’t really be a need to steal Obito’s eye in that case. In saying that though, he would probably know about Obito’s death so would easily be able to speak of it to mislead others.

    The problem is that there’s never been any mention of Obito having a brother, so to me, it’s a theory that suggests that Tobi is someone we do not actually know, which would kinda make the reveal somewhat anti-climactic.

  100. @Baron

    “You know full well Yahiko’s death was only the push that send Nagato over the edge. He had lost his parents, lived in an endless war, lost friends in Akatsuki, got betrayed by his village leader and THEN lost Yahiko.”

    So what? This is a world of Shinobi, which means just about every single generation that has ever lived has gone through a war and lost loved ones. Tsunade went through it, Jiraiya went through it, Kakashi went through it (heaven knows he’s lost as much as Nagato) Minato went through it, and many, many more have been through it. The list of names is basically endless and spans just about every character in the story so far save for some characters in Naruto’s generation, so going by your reasoning, those who have lost more should all become villains while those who lost less shouldn’t. Yet we know from evidence in the manga that this isn’t the case, seeing as how some characters have lost less and still become villains. In fact, some characters have become villains for little or no reason at all. Look at Kisame. His only reason was to find truth in the world. Look at Kabuto, his reason was to find his own identity. Look at Kakuzu, his reason was money. Look at Deidara, his reason was to blow crap up. Lol. O___o

    It’s only logical that different characters will react to circumstances in different manners, even if the circumstances themselves are similar. You speak as if all these characters are robots programmed to react to X parameter with Y result. You also don’t know what Obito’s been through in either case. He also lived in an age of war. We don’t know if his parents were alive or dead or how many others he knew died. You’re basing your argument on unknown variables and then assuming that the only explanation involves some kind of plot hole.

    “And I have? LOL. Now that’s a joke. I am constantly considering all options, the only problem is that every theory has major flaws.”

    I never said you have, so I’m not sure where that came from. Lol. I was only speaking of myself in my comment, not of you. Also, most flaws found in a theory only exist because of our own lack of knowledge or the lack of information revealed to us. If Kishi can bring Oro back to life using his own sense of reasoning, then it’s obvious he can twist the story any way he pleases simply by revealing details we may not have considered at any given time.

    Seeing as how Obito’s character and history is still a blank canvas for the most part, it gives Kishi a lot of room to paint whatever picture he wants, IF Tobi is Obito that is.

    “I never said Obito being Tobi is an impossibilty. I’m just pointing out the massive plotholes Kishi is digging here. If you don’t like that I suggest you send Kishi an email because as much as I’d like to I’m not capable of changing them.”

    You’re assuming he’s digging plot holes, but we can’t say for sure until everything is revealed. Don’t you think it’s better to give an author a chance to tell his story before we all start calling foul? Tobi may be Obito, but he also may not be. If he is, Kishi may be able to explain it in a way that makes sense, or he may not. It’s all relative in the end.

    How am I meant to like or dislike something that I have yet to see?

  101. what about an Obito doppleganger instead? now that would be interesting and I could live with that.

  102. Obito doppleganger FTW. In any case, I do believe that at least a *part* of Obito is in Tobi.

  103. Let’s try to keep this PG arpotu…I’m 54% sure Tobi doesn’t have Obito “inside” of him…only Orochimaru does those kinds of things to helpless little boys when nobody is watching.

  104. lol mantis – i was referring to Obito’s eye, but honestly, who knows where white Zetzu has oozed to 😉

  105. hahaha Mantis and Arpotu

  106. “Yet we know from evidence in the manga that this isn’t the case, seeing as how some characters have lost less and still become villains. In fact, some characters have become villains for little or no reason at all. Look at Kisame. His only reason was to find truth in the world. Look at Kabuto, his reason was to find his own identity. Look at Kakuzu, his reason was money. Look at Deidara, his reason was to blow crap up. Lol. O___o”

    All Sideshow Bob characters, we’re talking about THE Naruto villain here. The Lex Luthor to Naruto’s Superman, the Joker to Naruto’s Batman, the Green Goblin to Naruto’s Spiderman. If you’re fine with that villain being a wimpy Uchiha brat whose greatest accomplishment was pushing Kakashi out of the way of a big boulder then that’s O.K., but I’m not.

    “I never said you have, so I’m not sure where that came from. Lol. I was only speaking of myself in my comment, not of you.”

    It’s the way you said it. It seems when the debate is going on longer than you’d like it turns your answers into condescending and belittlling statements fueled by an apparant frustration.

    “If Kishi can bring Oro back to life using his own sense of reasoning, then it’s obvious he can twist the story any way he pleases simply by revealing details we may not have considered at any given time.”

    I know, and that’s what worries me. Orochimaru was dead and buried. There was absolutely no need to bring that pedo bear in disguise back into the fold. It seems Kishi couldn’t think of anything original to move Sasuke’s story along. The originality of Kishi’s story is hanging by a thread now. If Tobi is revealed to be Obito then we’ve got ANOTHER Uchiha brat who lost his dearest and decided to blame the world for that. That’s why I hope it’s NOT Obito.

    “You’re assuming he’s digging plot holes, but we can’t say for sure until everything is revealed. ”

    He’s already done so. Hashirama is exhibit A. A man so powerful even an EMS fueled Kyuubi wielding Madara who’s perfectly capable of toying with any opponent he’s facing now couldn’t make a dent in Hashirama’s armor. Yet that same Hashirama, who apparantly regenerated so fast he couldn’t get hurt by anything, died in the war. Then he got Edo Tensei’d by Orochimaru and for some reason couldn’t hold his own against an old man… Does that make sense? No.
    And sadly, that isn’t the only plothole we’ve seen so far.

  107. @redbaron I like the fact that you bring up some points and there’s back and forth between you and Tenrai. I honestly am grateful someone is arguing against Obito vs Tobi but I think what Tenrai is doing is arguing that we can’t dismiss the theory. He isn’t saying we have enough evidence that Obito is beyond a shadow of a doubt but that whether our personal preferences don’t like it, it’s possible. Is there enough of an argument for Obito? There isn’t enough argument for any one of the theories because we are so lacking in information that Kishi right now holds hostage. Since we don’t have the backstory and Kishi can make up any backstory he wants, he might find some way to eliminate the plotholes, even if it seems contrived. I have no doubt that his tendency is to write himself into a corner and sometimes his houdini escapes are less than satisfactory. I think you should realize that both you and Tenrai need to just be cordial. Right now I’m in the hate Obito theory party but I’m not spending a bunch of time debating the finer points until something substantial pops up. I tend to lean your way in terms of what your debating but right now we can’t eliminate the possibility which I think Tenrai wasn’t so much defending necessarilythe theory as defending it’s place among the other theories and maybe a bit stronger on evidence. But when the Obito theory which is thin on evidence is the strongest theory there is, that just shows us how little info Kishi has let slip. We haven’t been able to eliminate many of the theories even with the amount of chapters since Madara’s reveal of being in Kabuto’s mysterious coffin, outing Tobi as not Madara.

  108. Tobi is Kyubey, or Aizen maybe.

  109. @Baron

    “All Sideshow Bob characters, we’re talking about THE Naruto villain here. The Lex Luthor to Naruto’s Superman, the Joker to Naruto’s Batman, the Green Goblin to Naruto’s Spiderman. If you’re fine with that villain being a wimpy Uchiha brat whose greatest accomplishment was pushing Kakashi out of the way of a big boulder then that’s O.K., but I’m not.”

    Actually, I always presumed Sasuke would fill that “primary antagonist” role, seeing as how he seems to be Naruto’s foil. In either case, I can’t speak for your tastes so if there’s something you don’t like about the story, there’s nothing I can do about that. It doesn’t mean I have to feel the same way though. Of course, if Kishi ends up handling this reveal poorly, I may indeed feel the same way, but I’m waiting to see what happens first.

    “It’s the way you said it. It seems when the debate is going on longer than you’d like it turns your answers into condescending and belittling statements fueled by an apparent frustration.”

    I have not once belittled you in this debate. If you feel that’s what I am doing then perhaps you are the one who is becoming too frustrated here. However, looking back at our exchanges, I see no point at which I’ve in any way said anything for the purposes of aggravating or belittling you. Perhaps you are taking things too personally? I debate like this with Pein all the time and we’re friends outside of the blog who talk on a daily basis, so at the end of the day, it’s just a debate and nothing more. I’ve learned quite some time ago not to let it feel personal anymore.

    In any case, it’s pretty much as Ashes said it. I’m really just defending the Obito theory as a legitimate theory, not saying its certain but not allowing it to be dismissed completely either. That’s my only goal in this debate and it was never about crushing other people’s theories or belittling them. If, however, I’ve somehow implied that in some way without realizing it, then I apologize for that.

    “If Tobi is revealed to be Obito then we’ve got ANOTHER Uchiha brat who lost his dearest and decided to blame the world for that. That’s why I hope it’s NOT Obito.”

    And that’s fine. If you feel there’s a particular direction you wouldn’t want the story to take then I can understand that, although I don’t think it’s really fair to judge before we see. I do understand Kishi has made some duff-ups in the past, but we can’t always be pesimistic about what might happen in the future because of that otherwise we might as well all give up on Naruto.

    “Then he got Edo Tensei’d by Orochimaru and for some reason couldn’t hold his own against an old man… Does that make sense? No.
    And sadly, that isn’t the only plothole we’ve seen so far.”

    I understand what you’re saying, but my ultimate point is that it has nothing to do with Tobi being Obito. Yes, Kishi has made mistakes as I mentioned above, probably do to a lack of foresight when it comes to his own story, but that doesn’t mean that everything he does from now on will all follow the same trend. Maybe it’s because I’m the breakdown writer that I’ve had to adopt an optimistic mindset about Naruto as a series (heaven knows writing breakdowns every week would be impossible if I had no enthusiasm) but I just feel that we should give the author a chance to tell his story, that’s all. Whether Tobi is Obito or not still hasn’t been shown yet, only suggested. Things could go left or right, up or down at this point. As readers, we’re just along for the ride. If you haven’t been enjoying the ride, why are you still on it, unless like me you also have this optimism and hope for the series and you’re also waiting to see it get better.

  110. @Ten Damn i love these debates just as much as yours and everyone’s breakdown, what happen to an One Piece one, i used to love the supertrek one’s, yosh!

  111. @arpotu Alittle better writing hahaha, sometimes I write crazy when my mind is, cause i think sometimes the anime mirrors the release of the mangas and they kind’ve me made me think more with timing of showing Kakashi gaiden with the revealing of non goofy Tobi.

  112. @Sageone

    I think it just became difficult for Trekkie to continue writing on the blog, mostly thanks to work and studies, etc, so until further notice, he won’t be contributing to the blog directly as far as breakdowns are concerned. Of course, if he ever feels up to it again, there will always be a place for him on WRA, seeing as how he was largely responsible for its success. @___@

    In the meantime, Coolbeans is making the effort to try and catch up on One Piece so he can start the OP breakdowns again. I must admit though, it’s a monstrosity of a manga – with over 600 chapters, going on 700 – so it may take a while before he’s ready, and I don’t blame him. Lol.

  113. With all the debates over the years about Tobi, i think if it’s not Obito then a non Uchiha has to be him, because why with all the sharigans in Tobi’s disposal, he’s so fond of Obito’s even from the beginning. Don’t you think if he found Obito’s eye and awakened it, he could do it to others, like maybe two of the same and get sasunno or more powerful abilities.

  114. The Uchiha are a proudfull bunch and take their eyes very seriuos and perhaps personal with all the rules of awaking the power with them with hate and ect, Obito’s eye is somewhat personal to him, and to get MS in 1-2 years wow Tobi is skilled or got alot of traing from perhaps Madara because no doubt they where working together. Then why not with other eyes.

  115. has anybody else thought….that if you attack tobi and he puts part of himself in the other universe…. why not attack another part of him RIgHT after …..he cant deactivate his tech or he’ll have the person stuck in him….he cant take away another part of him because his tech is active….so he’s screwed…attack his head…while the jutsu is active attack his legs and blow them off…simple

  116. @Drice

    I don’t think there’s a limit to how many parts of himself Tobi can have in the other dimension at any given time, or at the very least, he can have numerous parts there at once. He proved this while battling Konan, where he was able to survive against her first wave of paper bomb attacks, which targeted more than one part of his body at a time. His only real weakness in that was, as Konan stipulated, was that he could only remain ethereal for 5 minutes at the most (there’s something about Naruto and 5 minute weaknesses) and that to fully absorb himself so he could teleport away, he had to solidify completely.

    So, unless Naruto and co can consistently attack Tobi for five minutes to force him to solidify without given him a split second to recover, I just don’t see that strategy working. It makes more practical sense to just use Kakashi’s Kamui to land attacks as they just recently did, because it would be more effective and is more difficult for Tobi to avoid.

  117. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/598/ it’s out. DAMN YOU KISHIMOTO!!!

  118. One more week… One more week… One more week…

  119. the second i saw the title of the chapter i knew kishi was going to troll us with not showing the face in this chapter yet.

    Considering the options, if tobi seems to be obito next chapter i can imagine we get alot of talk and explaining stuff.

    This also makes me wonder how they are going to beat him now, now that Kakashi can’t use Kamui anymore.

    Meh gotta wait one more week befor all the speculations end!

  120. Hmmm…

    Well, I know I’m probably beating a dead horse, but what Tobi said in this chapter just feels like another nail in the proverbial coffin. He mentioned to Kakashi that he’s not afraid of some borrowed power and that he’d show him the real Kamui.

    Then he finally showed his MS and it’s the same as Kakashi’s…

    The fact that he said he’d show him the real Kamui rather than some borrowed power suggests that the eye is his and not taken from someone else. This dialogue on its own heavily suggests that Tobi is Obito. The fact that each Mangekyo Sharingan has a unique appearance as well and that Tobi’s eye is the same as Kakashi’s means that it is Tobi’s eye and not anyone else’s. Not even blood brothers have the same looking MS eyes, so the only way I can see Tobi not being Obito now, is if he’s lying about showing him the real Kamui, or if Kishi really pulls some sort of incredible about-turn.

    Or unless he’s an Obito doppelganger from another dimension. Lol.

    Besides that, the battle and the chapter as a whole, was epic. All I can say is…. DAMN YOU KISHI AND YOUR CLIFFHANGERS!!!!!!! T_____T

  121. *Eats Gavin and then splodes.*

  122. Hardened for battle? Maybe… Hardened against Naruto Uzumaki? Don’t think so…

  123. http://bloodoftenchiefs.tumblr.com/post/27585976698/the-mystery-of-tobi-an-obitobi-timeline

  124. So was it a Naruto clone that went into the other dimension or the real Naruto? Because if it’s the real Naruto, than everyone is in danger. And I don’t think we are going to see Tobi’s face next week until the end of the chapter. I bet the final stage of that statue is going to catch their attention

  125. Its a clone the real one made the tail beast bomb I think

  126. I have to say that is quite a cliffhanger. Darn you Kishimoto!

  127. @ Tenrai Tobi said one time that he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato. He seems to have a possessiveness to the Eye Dojustu, he considers it his property so to say. When he says Kakashi is using borrowed power that could be just him saying that Tobi is a Uchiha ( in a general sense) and not necessarily Obito. I mean if Kagami was Obito’s dad that would explain it. I’m not saying Obito isn’t possible and Obito seems a very strong possibility at the moment. I’m just saying that just because Tobi regards Kakashi as using borrowed power, if he considers the Sharingan meant only for the Uchiha then he wouldn’t consider his stealing Obito’s Sharingan as anything more than making sure to keep it within the clans possession in his mind. He may regard his fellow Uchiha with a grudge but he may still consider the Sharingan rightful Uchiha property particularly himself, since he believes he is above the other Uchiha.

  128. For all we know Tobi gave Obito a special set of eyes like he did Nagato and Tobi sees it as reclaiming his property.

  129. @ everyone I wouldn’t be surprised if Kishi shifted back to Sasuke’s sidequest next week. 3 chapter of Naruto a big cliffhanger and then we get to hang out with Taka and Orochimaru again .

  130. @tenrai There are a couple possibilities in my mind that would still fit the wording used here and still not be Obito. If it is Obito then Kishi is gonna have to justify his decision even more than with Kabuto (which felt like he fell short) . However I still doubt it’s Obito because it’s been so Obito heavy. He just slapped us with Kamui and spent a chapter making it point to Obito. I really doubt it’s so easy. It still doesn’t explain how he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Or why he said to Kushina that he waited a long time for the release of the Fox and attack on the village. Naruto’s grandpa?( plz don’t take that seriously just a joke) I just don’t think Obito can be enlarged enough to fit the role.

  131. @ashes… I hope you’re wrong about switching plots to Sasuke, or to the Kage’s fight with Madara, or…or…or…, but I suspect you’re right…

  132. @ashes that would make a worse troll than Kubo almost on Urobuchi (the man behind Madoka Magica google it) levels of trolling.

  133. “He mentioned to Kakashi that he’s not afraid of some borrowed power and that he’d show him the real Kamui.”

    Maybe it’s because I’m desperately hoping Tobi is not Obito but that comment struck me as odd. If Obito is Tobi then did he forget he gave his eye to Kakashi?

    Also, here’s something quite interesting I just discovered while re-reading the chapter;
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/598/3
    Notice the panel with …shi… …kashi…
    The first time I read it I thought it was Gai who said it trying to get Kakashi’s attention. But when I noticed the shi in front of kashi, which makes no sense any way you look at it, I thought it more likely Kakashi who said it. Which does make sense.
    So, who is Shikashi and why is Kakashi thinking of him while remembering the tombstone.

  134. Hmmm, it seems Shikashi is Kakashi’s sister.

    I’d like to see her rampage… If you know what I mean. ^__^

  135. @Ashes

    As I say, it “suggests” but of course, dialogue nuances can come into play and people can dissect it in any number of ways. I just feel like it was leaning particularly strongly in a specific direction.

  136. Remember this is the same guy who said that Nagato’s Rinnegan was his as well.

  137. Anybody wondering if Kakashi is going to drop his mask soon after this battle or sometime during it?

  138. I don’t know if you were being serious or not, but I found out obvious that in the panel http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/598/3 here where Kashi and Shi is mentioned, is just the small parts that Kakashi is picking up in his surroundings because Gai is calling out his name.

    Shi and Kashi are all he was hearing because he was so distracted.

  139. holydemonandy has it right. shi and kashi are just gai saying Kakashi, Kakashi but Kakashi doesn’t hear all of it because he’s completely distracted. The question is, who’s grave is that? Because that seems like the last clue we are going to be given before we see who Tobi is. I, for one, think that it isn’t going to be all cut and dry. I think even if it is Obito, that it will be some weird form of him that is mostly Zetsu cells or whatever. Sort of like Yahiko was always just Nagato. Again, can anyone figure out who was in that grave? Are there any tips?

  140. @Gavin I’m pretty sure Tobi has got Kakashi questioning whether Obito survived somehow so he’s remembering Obito’s gravesite at least it seems pretty obvious. I think Kakashi is just trying to process whether Obito is really Tobi like the rest of us. You might say that Kakashi is a stand in for us fans in that he is asking the same questions we have except his are more along the lines of “he’s alive?! shock and the possibility and disbelief because he saw the rock fall on him.

  141. haha, I bet Obito wants revenge. remember in the part where he’s dying, he said something like Promise me to protect Rin and Ill be your eye, and I will be living through you or something like that. I bet Obito was thinking Kakashi is going to have a relationship with Rin for me and I’ll get to see her naked! Awesome!

    But when Kakashi didn’t start a relationship : Obito went mad with rage and revived himself to exact his revenge muahahaha *vanishes into the shadows*

  142. lol wiseman

  143. Great points everyone, but I have a question of my own.

    How the hell will Naruto get out with Tobi from the other dimension ? The only one that can bring them out is Tobi himself, Naruto can dispel the kagebunshin as soon as he’s in danger, if that should happen.
    But even if he will automatically know how Tobi looks, he won’t be able to fully confirm to Kakashi if it’s Obito because Naruto doesn’t know how Obito looks like.

    I for one think Tobi is gonna start fighting with the rinnegan from this point on and the battle will take a turn for the worse, seeing as Kakashi won’t be able to sent attacks in the other dimension any more due to the fact that he sent Naruto whole with Kamui, from now on speed is gonna have to be real key to bringing Tobi down for good.

    Hopefully Kurama, or Kakashi, Gai or Bee, know how the FTG works and can give Naruto a crash course so Naruto can catch Tobi by surprise like Minato did with the FTG lvl 2.

  144. @Gavin

    In all honesty, I don’t think that Obito’s body is in the grave or at least that no-one has seen his body. The reason I say that is because if they did, I’m sure they would have noticed that his right eye was missing as well.

    It may just be an empty grave or memorial stone or something.

  145. Also try mangastream’s translation, because the “borrowed power” Tobi speaks of will be changed and the meaning might not implicate Obito so directly as mangareader’s translation dose.

    I guess it’s a matter of whatever we want the most, that counts.

  146. @tenrai someone could’ve gone back and dug up the body or they didn’t try to get his body out of that rock and just did a ceremony and a memorial stone even though they didn’t have the body. Or a really strange one could be that the body was switched before , a body was put in the grave. Still I think your right a missing eye would make people wonder. So I’m thinking they left the body because Tobi said something about Kannabi. Or as usual Obito somehow survived.

  147. @Ashes

    I reckon they either left the body behind because trying to go back and search for a body under a landslide in a war-torn area isn’t practical, or this is a case of a white Zetsu replacement, seeing as how white Zetsu’s can match the chakra and physique of others perfectly.

  148. @Eugen: Isn’t there a good chance that the transported Naruto was a kagebunshin? Am I missing something?

  149. I’m wondering if it is a kagebunshin too. The page goes Bee cover me and Naruto splits into 2. Kishi doesn’t clarify which is the real naruto. I wonder because of his gong-ho type attitude that he was the one that went into the other dimension while Madara thinks it’s the kagebunshin. Besides, I don’t think Madara would stay in that dimension as he still has the Gedo Mezo to take care of. And even if he traps Naruto (a-la Bleach) than Naruto could just grab his body part as Tobi continues to fight Bee, Gai and Kakashi

  150. @Gavin and Eugen

    The transported Naruto was a Kage Bunshin. The manga mentions it quite specifically. The real Naruto was the one firing the Bijuu bomb, while the one using the Rasengan was the clone that attacked Tobi earlier. I think Tobi presumed that his attack caused the clone to disperse when in reality it was absorbed into the other dimension by Kakashi’s Kamui, waiting for the right time to strike. @____@

    It was quite a clever stragegy all-in-all and I think it’s great that Naruto and Kakashi know each other so well as sensei and student that they can coordinate attacks without even verbally communicating.

  151. I think the plan is to attack both sides of Tobi (inside and outside of the dimension), so they can always hit him whether he’s phased out or not. I’m not sure which naruto is on the “inside”. A few things could toss it either way:

    If it’s real naruto on the inside:

    1) then game over – he is captured so why keep fighting.
    2) as real naruto there’s no worry that he would be dispelled if he gets struck by Tobi, since it won’t dispel a bunshin, and Kakashi wouldn’t have to use his Kamui to send another one in.
    3) Kakashi can (hopefully) pull the real naruto out using his (last) Kamui, after Naruto defeats Tobi.
    4) Naruto can create more bunshins inside the dimension for massive bijuu-bomb attacks against Tobi’s (upcoming) Rinnigan attempts.

    Or, if it’s a bunshin:

    1) then naruto can dispel the bunshin, escape easily and inform Kakashi about what he saw (after defeating Tobi).
    2) There’s no risk of the real Naruto being captured
    3) But – he also can’t create more bunshins inside the dimension for awesome 100-chakra ball attacks.

  152. I’m gonna rewrite my point.
    The naruto inside in Tobi’s dimension is 100% a clone
    What I was wondering was how will Naruto’s bunshin drag Tobi out of there if Tobi were, let’s say, passed out due to a big ass concentrated ball of chakra to the face.

    He should be passed out from that hit, and if not, he might choose not to go back to where the rest of the A team is and try and deal with naruto’s clone there, and if he manages to take out Naruto’s bunshin he can just escape.

    As I said before, Naruto can’t confirm to Kakashi if Tobi is obito once he gains the info the clone gathered because Naruto doesn’t know how Obito looks like.

    And the F’ed up thing is Naruto always followed the creed Kakashi passed onto Team 7 about “trashy friends”, The same lesson Obito passed onto Kakashi. How will naruto react to that? Maybe if Tobi is Obito, Naruto will use that quote to his advantage in the Talk no jutsu.

  153. @eugen tobi has to return or his efforts were in vein because if he doesnt return gedo mazo will be destroyed..and also he should not be knocked from that since his mask was so hard…i do however think the real mandara will appear soon

  154. Makes me wonder if Kakashi will take Obito’s other eye if Tobi is down for the count… that’s a darn good way to make sure Tobi doesn’t use Kamui again.

  155. Oh and I think that since Kakashi has seen weapons flung out of Kamui from Tobi, he will be able to extract things from Kamui dimension as well. After all, he *is* the “copy ninja”. I think it would be a certainty if he got Obito’s other eye.

  156. Its incredible that Tobi never grabbed a bunshin by accident.

    I think we’re seeing a whooping take place. If Obito leaves the dimension he will be smack dab in the middle of a bijuu bomb. So Naruto needs to finish the job or else they are in real trouble which I think they might be if Tobito escapes.

  157. I wonder if Kakashi takes the other eye from Tobi and transplant it to his eye where he had the sharingan. Does that mean he’ll get the EMS if he does? I think it’d be bad ass if Kakashi had the EMS in one eye and could you limitless Kamui and the midget version of Susanoo :p

  158. Another thing! I hope to God that Sauske does not end up fighting Madara. That would just be unfair. He’s got to fight way stronger characters than Naruto. Danzo, Deidara, Itachi and Orochimaru. And the 5 kage! Who’s naruto fought? Pain? and Obito? great… After witnessing this fight, Naruto deserves to have that fight with Madara. And than Sauske at the end. I don’t see why Sauske needs to do any more awesome character battles. Why can’t he settle for fighting like the Sage’s older brother and leave Madara for Naruto

  159. @thelaughing Naruto fought everyone great in this war even Madara, which Madara got most impressed. Naruto needed to prove that he is the Sh@t, when fighting against current Raikgage, Itaichi, Nagato 2nd Tshu, 3rd Raik, and Tobi with the rest of the tailed beats, but yeah f@ck sasuke and his epic great battles cause kishi wished he created Sasuke instead of Naruto. Damn I also feel that he might switch to different plot know.

  160. Also let’s not say all of Naruto’s great battles haven’t been personal to the story and to some level with Pain, with the same master and perhaps Tobi, who was the student of his father. Also his best friend in Sasuke.

  161. I’m talking about the 2nd part of the story. I just don’t feel none of Naruto’s fights have been as epic as Sauske’s, only the Pain fight. Those other fights were only glances, he did you FALCON punches and beat them up with only a punch. No badass boss battle. And even the Itachi and Nagato battle was a wash because they were telling Bee and Naruto what to do to beat them and than Itachi was turned to the good side and actually fought with them to defeat Nagato.

  162. @Wiseman

    While I agree that for a good early part of the story after the timeskip, Sasuke got to have way more cooler battles than Naruto, I feel that trend mostly changed after Naruto’s battle with Pein.

    The fight with Pein itself is still what I would consider to be one of the single most epic battles in this series so far, if not THE most epic. After that, Naruto’s had more time in the limelight and the next epic battle he was in was with Kurama. You can’t really say that wasn’t cool or epic.

    He’s also had that double-team battle with him and Bee vs Itachi and Nagato, his duel with the 3rd Raikage (which to me was more extensive than his touch-and-go with Muu), his bout with 6 Jinchuuriki and now his battle with Tobi. I won’t include Madara or other quick bouts because, as you said, those weren’t really proper battles.

    Comparatively, if you look at Sasuke, since the Pein arc Sasuke has had his fight with Bee, the five Kage, then Danzou and now just recently with Kabuto, although I don’t really count the Kabuto fight because that was mostly Itachi doing all the work while Sasuke mostly got in the way. Lol.

    So all in all, I’d say they’re keeping a pretty even pace right now, with Naruto maybe slightly ahead of Sasuke as far as current battles go. Also, as for Madara, that’s the Kage’s fight, not Naruto’s or Sasuke’s, so as far as I am concerned, neither of them should interfere with it. I’m not sure why you think Sasuke would end up fighting Madara in the first place.

  163. @Tenrai Senshi, I was going on the assumption that Madara would just teleport away from the fight because of what he said in the last chapter we saw the Kage fight. He said he was going after the Nine-tails. I have no idea how the Kage can take on Madara.

    The Itachi and Nagato battle was also a one-sided affair where Itachi decided to one-up himself and get away from edo tensai and help Naruto and Bee. I honestly think if Kishi was going to have Naruto and/or bee captured, that would have been the most oppurtune moment to do it. I think that battle looked rushed. What if Itachi and Nagato were mindless when they fought Naruto and Bee? Without the help of the bird Naruto had in his ass. (because it was an ass-pull) What would make it possible for Naruto and Bee to win? That battle could have last soo long, and been so crazy! But no… I think that is worse than Kakashis rampage, or lack there of

  164. @Wiseman

    Regardless of personal feelings about Naruto and Bee vs Itachi and Nagato, it was still a legitimate battle for the most part and it wasn’t really that bad to me. Comparatively speaking, what exactly did Sasuke do in the battle against Kabuto other than get in the way? You say he gets cool battles, but standing around while your brother does all the work doesn’t seem “cool” to me.

    I’d say the last cool battle Sasuke had was against Danzou which took place from chapter 476. That’s over 100 chapters ago. Don’t you think that’s enough of a break? Besides, that, we haven’t really seen him show off his new power and I’m actually eager to see what he is capable of. In all honesty, I wouldn’t mind seeing him in a proper one-on-one battle, although I don’t think he will battle Madara.

  165. @Tenrai I didn’t list the Kabuto “fight” as a battle that counted for Sauske. It was just basically a learning experience from Itachi, like the one Naruto was receiving when he was also fighting with Itachi. I think that was the main focus of those battles, how similar Naruto and Sauske were with their fighting styles, approach to their opponents and manners of thinking (how stubborn they were)

    Who is still out there in the war that can push Sauske to test his powers? I personally want Neji to fight Sauske. I’m certain Kishi can give Neji ass-pulls to make him capable of fighting Sauske for a little while. That, and I’ve also wanted to see Neji fight Sauske for a very long time.

  166. Also, have you guys played Darksiders? The main character is voiced by the person who does Gaaras voice in the English dub of NAruto

  167. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/549/11

    I think Killer Bee has the Byakugan…

  168. @Everyone
    If Deidara hand was suck into the dimension by Kakashi’s Kamui in the rescue Gaara Arc, then how did Deidara find he hand with the ring on it?

    Also, in the latest anime episode 276, it might explains a little about Kakashi’s rampage.

  169. It was that Tobi transported himself, and I think he through the arm away when he saw it in his dimension.

  170. Actually the arm was never sent to the other dimension only the small part at the elbow that looked a bit wrinkly. So kakashi actually sent 1/4 of Deidara’s arm and the part with his hand just fell down. That’s how he found it later. You should check out the manga then, but I’m almost 95% sure that’s how it went.. And the reconstruction was probably made by Kakuzu

  171. @wisemen and Eugen
    Upon your advise, I checked the manga 276 and indeed Kakashi only managed to take out mid-section of the arm. Hence separating the upper and lower part where the hand was.

    Thanks

  172. F*cking hell, Ten–fix your links I can’t get a recap from old posts. 😉

    Tobito. It’s about damn time.

  173. @ten yeah maybe Naruto vs Pain was the most epic fight in the manga, cause damn i was to disappointed in the anime which i think Sasuke has the best fights. Damn i remember you killed it when you wrote for the chapter when Hinata “died” and Naruto went six-tails, man.

  174. Holy crap it’s already been 100 chapters since the fight with Danzou? :O

  175. Im still a huge fan of naruto vs negi back in the day I actually thought he lost that fight completely then all of a sudden boomx and uppercut to shut negi up that fight was to epic

  176. @Sage.

    Lol. Let’s not speak of the disaster that was the anime version of the Naruto vs Pein battle. Some things are better forgotten…

    @Ibiki

    Tell me which links don’t work. X___X

    @Simplyantony

    When you say “back in the day” you make us all sound old. Lol. But in saying that, it’s hard to believe how many years have actually passed. Time sure flies…

  177. Now we know why Oro didn’t use Sage Mode, he didn’t have the use of his arms. I still think that Jiraiya could have beat Oro. He seemed best adept to stop him. He wouldn’t have been as disgusted or caught off guard by Oro’s tactics and tricks. Again, this is an opinion because I haven’t seen Oro in sennin mode.

  178. @Ten the one piece one doesnt work at all

    @wiseman I agree with you Jiraya is a Beast

  179. so does anyone think Kakashi will die from using Kamui too much?

  180. Woot!
    I can once again use my wordpress login again =D
    Who else here thinks that we won’t get to see who Tobi is in the next chapter either. My guess is it will swap back to the Madara fight before ending up back at the Tobi fight just in time to see the shocked faces of Team Naruto before the chapter ends =P

  181. ashesreignited: I’m not really answering your question, but you made me think of this. Maybe I’m not remembering something crucial, but has anyone tragically died from overuse of chakra yet?

    I’m saying that it’s kind of ironic if no one has because it’s something that is constantly mentioned, especially to Naruto. It was mentioned when considering making too many Kagebunshins when using nine tails chakra, and it was mentioned to Sasuke regarding chidori.

  182. @Gavin I only point this out because that’s how Kakashi died during the Pein Invasion. I was asking the question because honestly I don’t know why Kishi would kill off Kakashi twice unless Kakashi was the only one who can identify Tobi ( since Guy has problems remembering faces) at the very least if Kakashi is unconscious wouldn’t that make it difficult to ID Tobi. ( I mean it wouldn’t be explicit, it maybe implicit in his facial features and we the readers might recognize him but Naruto would be left in the dark. ) Unless Tobi confesses and there’s also the possibility that after the Rasengan his face is damaged enough and the years have changed him enough Kakashi still wouldn’t be able to recognize him?

  183. In the Pein Invasion Kakashi died using Kamui to save Choji.

    What I’m saying is that if Kakashi dies or falls unconscious or Tobi being unrecognizable wouldn’t allow Kakashi to declare absolutely to us and Naruto who Tobi is….

  184. Chapter 424 pages 13-17 http://www.mangapanda.com/93-429-13/naruto/chapter-424.html

  185. ashesreignited: You’re absolutely right! Thanks for reminding me.

  186. I honestly believe Tobi isn’t Obito and I Predict the battle is going to carry on, and Kakashi comes back to his senses with a stronger mind and finally forgives himself for what happens to Obito because we see how Tobi said “borrowed power” I think the battle is going to carry on and Tobi is going to fall, kakashi going to say something like “This was given to me” blah blah and saying “You’re the one who doesn’t deserve it” or whatever… but now that I see the chapters developing, yeah I think this is Tobi’s last battle, and Madara is going to take over the Gedo Mazou, idk if madara is still invincible due to Edo Tensei, but that would be interesting. I really believe these ending chapters are going to resolve the past and secure the future. Kakashi with his guilt, Madara and the Uchiha’s hatred, *cough* Naruto and Hinata >_>… What better way to bring about peace than to talk to hatred himself(Madara) lol… fucking Uchiha…. If that prediction doesn’t come true, then Madara isn’t going to last that long, but I think the world is too small for Tobi AND Madara to co-exist anymore… so ONE OF THEM is going to have to go away before the story moves forward… And Tobi’s pride for his sharingan against Kakashi is the same pride Sasuke had against Kakashi if you all recall Sasuke told Kakashi how he should be thankful to the uchiha for their power… Tobi said the same thing in different words.

  187. If Kakashi dies, I’m curious as to whether or not he’ll end up giving Tobi’s eye and his own eye to Naruto. That would be almost fucked up.

  188. Kakashi won’t die as Kishi has stated that he still intends to give him a bigger role to play in events. His death would kind of put a halt to those plans.

    Either way I think the angst over Obito is going to be gotten rid of at the very least. Kakashi shouldn’t have to live with that guilt in the first place IMHO.

  189. how in the hell are we going to know who it is under the mask anyways? I can’t really tell who’s who when people age

  190. So what happens if someone wins the “Who is Tobi?” contest. Do we get to leave Tenrais stomach?

  191. Actually, what if unmasking Tobi looks something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qy4EIvvVj4

  192. @gavin LOL

  193. @gavin I’m a big comic books fan I think this is hilarious being that Lex Luthor took over Flash’s body and didn’t couldn’t figure out who the flashes Identity was …. lol

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