Naruto Chapter 580 Breakdown: The ties of brotherhood.

Hey everyone.

This latest chapter on Naruto got me thinking a bit. I know I’ve bought this theme up before, but I think I’ll revisit it again just for the sake of it, purely because it’s a theme that is becoming more prevalent in these latest chapters.

That is, of course, the theme of brotherhood.

This was the only time, Sasuke was ever above Itachi. <_<

With our Uchiha brothers united, this battle with Kabuto has evolved somewhat into a more nostalgic take on the old relationship between Itachi and Sasuke. For most of the series, the only interaction we ever saw between the two (flashbacks aside) was Sasuke trying to kill Itachi, while the latter generally thwarted his efforts only to then pursue a monologue about hatred and despair.

We got a glimpse of what their relationship was like before Itachi wiped out the Uchiha – how he always seemed to treat Sasuke with care and love – but that look into the past always seemed more like a dream than reality, because at the time, we all saw Itachi as the villain who had only put up an act to deceive Sasuke before.

Since learning the truth behind Itachi’s life, I think many of us have contemplated what must have been going through Sasuke’s mind, knowing he killed the brother who loved him and ultimately died for him. In the same breath, I think many of us also wondered what going through Itachi’s mind during those final moments leading up to his death, knowing that he had spent his life preparing Sasuke for the task of killing him and that he would meet his end at the hands of his own little brother.

At times, a single death can change the world more than the workings of an entire lifetime.

With these thoughts in mind, this reunion between the two brothers presents a unique opportunity, for confessions to be made, for feelings to be shared and for questions to be answered. Now that Itachi and Sasuke are face-to-face, perhaps we will see some form of closure between the two.

What I do like about this latest chapter, though, is how the two brothers seem to be behaving like… real brothers again. The banter between them seems almost typical of that between an older and younger sibling and the way Itachi’s actions convey his will to protect Sasuke, first and foremost, shows clearly where his greatest intentions still lie even after coming back from the grace.

This is one of life’s enigma’s, and it is a notion that stands in stark contrast to the nuances of another brotherhood we have heard of in this story, that being the relationship between Uchiha Madara and his younger brother, Uchiha Izuna. Where Itachi fought to protect the life of his brother, even above protecting his clan, Madara contrarily sacrificed his younger brother for the sake of gaining power.

You've got to hand it to Itachi. After all, he's got a lot of them. <_<

What I also liked about this chapter, was the tie-in with the flashbacks of the past. Unlike other flashbacks, which tend to dominate many pages at a time, these ones were instead interwoven with the events happening in this chapter, like a side-by-side slide-show between the past and the present that gives us look at the relationship between the two.

This serves two purposes. The one is to show how far Sasuke has grown since his childhood endeavors with his brother, the other is to reinforce the notion that at the end of the day, these two are still brothers and despite all that has happened, that fact has never changed.

Here we have a combination of past and present. Personally, I've always liked presents more than pasts. >_>

In the end, this chapter served it purpose well. As a battle sequence, it was as good as many we have seen in the past, but it also brought a few dashes of nostalgia along with it just to heighten its credibility as far as its contribution to the story goes. If there’s one thing I could fault it on, it’s that despite everything, the story still showed little visible progress, plot-wise, although it could be said that this chapter did contribute more meaningfully to Sasuke and Itachi’s development as characters, rather than simply adding to the bigger picture as a whole.

In saying that, I have a feeling that the events occurring right at this moment, will have a more significant impact on the plot later on as far as Sasuke is concerned. The only question is, what will the outcome of this battle be, and how will it affect the future of this story?

Contrary to the answers I’ve given above, to me personally, this reunion between Sasuke and Itachi was something I could only compare to the reunion between Naruto and Kushina. It is one of those bitter-sweet meetings that brings both smiles, and tears to the eyes.

Yeah, I know. I used a screen capture from the anime, but it has colors. X__x

In the end, despite his happiness through seeing his mother, Naruto ultimately had to let go and allow her to move on to rest. He didn’t want to, you could tell that by the look in his eyes when she said she would finally be able to see Minato, but he understood that no matter how much he wanted to, he could not hold onto those who had already passed on. He said goodbye with a smile, but remembered her with tears flowing from his eyes.

Will Itachi’s departure leave a similar impression? Will his last words give Sasuke hope, or will it simply renew those feelings of hatred he holds, deep down inside?

While we all ponder on that, before I forget, I should probably also mention Kabuto, because he’s pretty important too. Well, there’s one thing I really want to point, that I noticed from this chapter.

Take a closer look at Kabuto's stomach...

Yes, that is correct, ladies and gentlemen. That darned snaked that we’ve always wondered about doesn’t come out of Kabuto’s backside. It isn’t simply wrapped around him either, like I guessed in the last chapter. Rather, it comes out the front of his belly button! Now, that information will either go straight over your heads, or it will cause you to lose your dinner, but either way, the mystery has finally been solved for good.

What I’d like to know is how it got there. Does it serve any other functions besides anti-tickle defense? Or has it laid any eggs yet? Perhaps we will never know. All I can say is that snaky boy seems to have given Kabuto some form of motivation, because he is doing quite a good job of holding his own against two who are among the strongest Uchiha to ever live.

I hope this battle moves along well. I don’t mind it being long, so long as it is epic as well. In any case, that’s it from me, so with the theme of brotherhood being the focus of the week, here’s one last poll to see us off.

Here is the winner, and the runner-ups of last week’s bubbliton contest:

4th) Ashesreignited

Bubble: This floor is so clean you can eat off it!

Caption: Kabuto disregards the 5 second rule.

3rd) Kantonkage

Bubble: I’m too sexy for this snake! Too sexy for this snake! The snake that’s about to rape… your ASSES!!!

Caption: That snake is looking at ass alright. Don’t worry Kabuto will figure it out he always does.

2nd) Eke2k6

Bubble: I really have no idea why people think I’m creepy…

Caption: He’s just misunderstood.

Ashesreignited: Harry Potter Fanboy in Voldemort Cosplay.

There won’t be a bubbliton this week, sorry. See you in the comments! ^ ^

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~ by Tenrai Senshi on April 2, 2012.

66 Responses to “Naruto Chapter 580 Breakdown: The ties of brotherhood.”

  1. First

  2. second

  3. Yondaime!

  4. well maybe Zeke will forgive me for doing too many Bubbliton entries… Good breakdown! I know your right, I mean this is really the only place where Kishi could’ve displayed the brotherly love between Sasuke and Itachi. Again ,Your right, this chapter sets up the brotherly relationship better for later even if the story didn’t progress.

  5. @ Nikeairforce *Sandaime* ( third is nothing to sneeze at)

  6. Lol im a n00b…

  7. Wow, things are pretty quiet this week. Where did everyone go? O_o

  8. Actually Tenrai, we’re still waiting on you with the birthday drinks 😉

  9. If you don’t mind me asking, How old are you??

  10. Does anyone want to make bets about whether we go back to fighting Snakey or Madara? Kage’s fight or Uchihas fight? or any desire for like something completely off the wall like a return to Suigetsu and Juugo?

  11. sorry guys, school n baseball have had me stressin mad lately. but i will be around more often to agree with Eugen and argue with Ten or Kanton 🙂

  12. Another excellent breakdown Tenrai.

    I think Sasuke is going to kill kabuto, so that Itachi won’t be able to stop the edo.

  13. @The Incredible Marksman: I second that notion. Good idea Marks.

  14. @Eugen

    Sorry, but I don’t drink, if you were referring to the consumption of alcohol. Lol. 😛

    @Ashes

    I’d say Kishi may switch to the Kage battle against Madara for a brief moment and then possibly back to Itachi and Sasuke again. We may also get a brief glimpse of what Naruto is up to, but I have a sneaky suspiscion that we won’t switch over to that scene until these other two battles are dealt with.

    @Everyone

    I had another strange thought on what could be an interesting, albiet unlikely plot twist. What if Naruto’s battle with Tobi ends in failure and he is captured, but Sasuke – after having his heart-to-heart talk with Itachi – decides to reevaluate his actions and tries to rescue Naruto? It would kinda be like the Gaara rescue arc, only with Naruto being the victim and Sasuke being the one trying to save him.

    I know this is unlikely because Kishi has been building up for a Sasuke vs Naruto battle for ages now and it would be odd for him to just suddenly avoid that confrontation. Still, it would be quite a unique situation. It would also have some deeper connections to the Sasuke retrieval arc, where Naruto and his team were trying desperately to bring back Sasuke. This time, though, it would be Sasuke trying to bring back Naruto and maybe he’d ponder back to that time when everyone was trying to save him.

    Of course, maybe Sasuke would rescue Naruto purely for the sake of wanting to fight him himself. Lol.

  15. That would definitely a major reversal though I think he would have a hard time getting anyone to help him because he’s untrustworthy in the eyes of the Konoha villagers, I mean Naruto took the rookies with him but Sasuke’s by himself. So not a complete parallel, still let’s say Kabuto snuck away from this fight somehow after Edo Tensei was ended ( assuming either Sasuke or Itachi ended it) Sasuke vs Tobi and Kabuto? The final Showdown? I don’t know why but I have a feeling that the 1st Hokage whose being kept alive this whole time is going to go at it possibly with Madara or something important… there sure has been alot of emphasis on the 1st Hokage lately… Anyways what I’m saying is that we want a decently epic battle at the end and i don’t think Sasuke vs Tobi( ten tails?) and Kabuto would be enough.. well I mean it’s crazy because apart from Sasuke vs Naruto… what epic fights are left? Though I think Gai’s 8 gates requires him to die an epic death fighting… i would love to see Hashirama vs Madara.

  16. @ashesreignited

    I’ve been thinking of that too.. I have commented about it few breakdowns ago that Hashirama is somehow gonna appear and do it again with Madara. But still we only got high hopes. And wait for like eternity to come that up.. lol! Naruto will defeat Tobi. I have this weird feeling that Orochimaru is still alive. I don’t know but dying like that isn’t appealing like when Sasuke pierced his chest with lightning blade. A one of the most fierced villain to go down just like that? I don’t think so. 🙂

  17. @ pisbolman I really doubt Orochimaru is coming back unless Kabuto somehow frees him from Itachi’s sealing jar. I know there’s alot of people that want Orochimaru back but I don’t think it would make any real sense unless somehow Kabuto wants more power or Kabuto is half possessed by Orochimaru … but I just think Kabuto was like Sasuke in that he absorbed part of Orochimaru’s power and has surpassed his master and Orochimaru like all the other Akatsuki are sealed because there place in the story is gone… I don’t see Orochimaru coming back…

  18. more eye spam for the uchia bros….Man i’m glad because the supporting character isnt op enough

  19. Here are some spoilers:

    http://weareawesomeness.net/2012/04/03/naruto-chapter-581-spoilers-pics-summaries/

  20. Naruto is out now.

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/581

  21. @ last chapter
    damn Itachi, you never disapoint your fans, but how much much ultimate & ultimate jutsus u can pull from your ass… 😀
    that chapter was cool one to me. 🙂

  22. I have a question. Does Izanami requires Hashirama’s dna/cell? Like of that Tobi used against Konan? Isn’t that Izanami? If so how are Itachi or Sasuke can pull Izanami if they don’t have the 1st Hokage’s cell/dna flowing in their body?

  23. Sorry. Tobi did used the Izanagi but much longer than that of Danzou.. I don’t know where i read it but i’m kind of sure Izanami was stated already in the manga last year. I’ve been looking for the chapter.

  24. @ Pisbol, I pointed this issue a long time ago when Sasuke had his fight with Danzou.
    Tobi mentioned that Izanagi was a tech forbidden even to a Uchiha implying it was a Uchiha technique, so basically the technique could have been used by a Uchiha without the aid of a Senjuu’s cells.

    Now it was indeed expected for Danzou to use this shortcut because he wasn’t neither Uchiha nor Senjuu so his body, like Kakashi, wouldn’t sustain even a normal Sharingan in the way a Uchiha would so using 10+ eyes and casting Izanagi would have been a feat far more harder to achieve.

    So from what I gather it’s something like this.

    Itachi = Best Uchiha without EMS => Eyes adept to using the highest Sharingan techniques but with the downsides that EMS probably overcomes. So Izanagi, Izanami, Susanoo, Amaterasu, Tsukuyome take a heavy tole on the body and eyes.

    Madara = EMS probably can do all the techniques mentioned above without heavy strain and so the only thing left was the ascension to the Rinnegan and probably decided his faith with Izanami in his battle with Hashirama.
    Now he has the Senjuu cells implanted so he can use the rinnegan to it’s fullest potential and also have access to the mokuton and also the body power of the senjuu.

    Tobi = used Izanaghi and lost his eye and there’s so much skills he hold his own that don’t characterize him as Uchiha, even the Sharingan that doesn’t close (Like Kakashi’s own) so his Senjuu cells might have been the only way he could have cast Izanaghi on Konan because his body and chakra wouldn’t have been able to cast the jutsus otherwise.

    So now Sasuke might be the only Uchiha that can come close to Madara because he already meets all the necessary requirements to go to the next step, that being the Rinnegan. He has the EMS he learned how Izanaghi works from Danzou and is about to see Izanami in action from The Awesome Itachi. What’s left after that nothing’s left as far as the Sharingan goes.

    @ pownman, I actually knew from the japanese mythology that Izanagi and Izanami were deities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izanagi_and_Izanami).

    So I was actually looking forward to seeing if Izanami would be included in the Sahringan universe, so to speak.

  25. I had a feeling Izanami would make an appearance, because in Japanese mythology, Izanami was married to Izanagi. They were two deities that gave birth to Japan and to many of the other gods.

    However, it seems things went badly between them further down the line, so it wouldn’t surprise me that Izanami is like a counter to the Izanagi. Still, one thing that does bother me, is how many of these eye techniques keep coming out of the woodworks. It’s like the Uchiha clan is becoming more hax with every month that passes. <_<

    Speaking of the Izanagi and Izanami, it is quite possible, and even likely that Madara can use these techs now, or at the very least, he can use just the Izanagi. Isn't it possible for him to bring himself back to life, using the Izanagi? Even if it means losing an eye? With that in mind, there is a possibility that even after Edo Tensei is cancelled, that Madara may remain.

  26. Is it my imagination, or is the chapter on mangareader broken?

  27. @ Arpotu, I read it there and it seemed fine. You can try here
    ( http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c581/ ) if there’s problems with MangaReader.

  28. @tenrai I also thought it would appears as well. The most likely thing would appear next would be the Ame-no-nuhoko (heavenly jewel spear) I guess.

  29. @Kantonkage

    I swear if Sasuke pulls that Heavenly Jewel Spear out of his nether regions, I will jump off the second floor. <_<

  30. @tenrai I would stick it back up the way it exited via spear end.

  31. Maybe Itachi will give Sasuke the Sword and Shield (totsuka and yata) from his Susanoo?

  32. This place is so different now. As promised, Tenrai, I have caught up and returned!

  33. OMG Kisu is back for the underworld and hellish realm that is Tenrai Senshi’s stomach. Welcome back dude !!!

  34. back *from*, (my bad).

  35. @Kisu

    Welcome back. Lol. Hopefully, you’ll stick around for a while.

  36. The place seems a bit gloomy especially now when we’re having such a powerhouse fight with all the great Uchiha Trade Marks (Ass Pull no Jutsu).

    I really am looking ffw to see Izanami’s use and how Itachi plans to use it and if his Edo Tensei eyes will loose there light. Maybe unlike Izanagi, Izanami takes both eyes instead of one or maybe it takes one’s life all together. I really am pumped to see next week’s chapter and if I can I’ll try and resist 2-3 weeks without reading the manga so I can have a brain short circuit when I finally read all 3 at once.

  37. Kisu’s back. Unfortunately, we’ve been overrun by the Uchiha virus. If Izanagi required a Uchiha stealing Hashirama’s genes, could the same be said for Isanami (I still think Mikoto could possibly be a Senju.)

  38. well i see it like this..izanagi and izanami are opposites. so if that’s true, then this statement by tobi: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/4.html

    should give us a mild idea of what izanami might be capable of. if izanagi is “the most powerful genjutsu anyone can cast on themselves”…then i feel like izanami is similar but is cast on an opponent? it surpasses the 5 human senses so kabuto doesnt have to be able to see it, hear it, touch it etc..to be affected by it. and itachi literally forces him to stop the edo tensei by controlling the space between illusion and reality.

    idk what do yall think?

  39. and once it’s activated it stays on until the user turns it off. like in the sasuke danzo fight, danzo kept turning it off n on to conserve chakra

  40. I thought Izanami existed but I was sure the technique would required alot more than Itachi’s MS, so that was a bit of a surprise! This chapter has me wondering what the heck Itachi’s new ability looks like…. I don’t want to speculate on the ability because I think it’ll be something we can’t predict…. however it must end Edo Tensei or something spectacular to be able to affect Kabuto and “decide fate”( whatever that means). The only question is whether Kabuto knows what Izanami is or not… I mean if Kabuto knows what it is and has already prepared a counter then I call “foul”. It’s one thing for a Uchiha to pull an ocular jutsu out of thin air but Kabuto maybe smart but how in the heck would he be that well researched?

    @ Tenrai so is Madara waiting to defeat the Kage’s Because his Edo Tensei body can take a beating and is Hashirama enhanced, is that why you think he hasn’t used Izanagi to bring himself back to life yet? He would have to use Izanagi before Edo Tensei is ended in order to stick around… and so far as long as the Kage’s are around I doubt he’ll use it.

  41. @ Tenrai so why do you think Madara hasn’t used Izanagi yet?

  42. *sprays pine-sol on the uchiha virus*
    There… that’ll kill that virus, leaving only the fresh scent of pine, and dead uchihas…

  43. Silly Kabuto! He thought he could ass pull one over on Itachi and Sasuke…

    Seriously though, we don’t see Kabuto for a couple of chapters and all of a sudden he’s a sage?!? I thought that level of ass pull no jutsu was restricted to Uchiha members only. I know Naruto basically pulled it off in the same time frame but Naruto wasn’t perfecting edo tensei, searching for and digging up corpses, collecting victims he could use for edo tensei summons, planning evil schemes and figuring out how to counter Tobi and his hax all at the same time.

    Considering Kabuto did all this in not even a years time one could wonder what Kabuto would be capable of when given a hyperbolic time chamber.
    I think he would have been at least an Ascended Super Saiya… uhmm… Dragon.

    “Tobi = used Izanaghi and lost his eye and there’s so much skills he hold his own that don’t characterize him as Uchiha, even the Sharingan that doesn’t close”

    Tobi is still very much a mystery but I believe that his ability to constantly use the sharingan is proof he is a genuine Uchiha. Remember Kakashi and even Danzo with Hashirama’s cells can’t/couldn’t use the sharingan for extended periods of time. Both of them will/would cover their sharingan eye when they don’t/didn’t need it because of the vast amount of chakra it would use up. Also, Danzo was only able to make Izanagi last 1 minute per eye whereas Tobi was able to make Izanagi last for more than 10 minutes.
    I constantly see people suggest Tobi isn’t an Uchiha because he can’t turn his sharingan off. I wonder if that’s indeed the case. I think Tobi just doesn’t need to turn it off because, like Itachi, he’s developed his sharingan to such a level that it barely consumes chakra when active.

    As for the Izanagi and Izanami talk. I agree with dish11. The way Itachi talks about it is as if it, unlike Izanagi, affects an opponent. So Izanagi can change ones own reality whereas Izanami changes someone else’s reality.

  44. @Prawl welcome back *with a Russian* Comrade. Did Kabuto’s crotch snake eat you?

  45. @redbaron Ascended Super Saiy…Dragon Force would be appropriate. Besides Naruto was shown training. Kabuto like you said, snuck in all five villages completely undetected and stole a number of graves, somehow had managed to resurrected a guy who blew himself up, make a clone of a dead snake with numerous new features, perfect replicate a person genetics and add them to his genetic structure. Surpringsly, he doesn’t have the Sharingan or the Mokuton. It come to my attention that his glasses are the new Hogyoku!

  46. @Baron

    “As for the Izanagi and Izanami talk. I agree with dish11. The way Itachi talks about it is as if it, unlike Izanagi, affects an opponent. So Izanagi can change ones own reality whereas Izanami changes someone else’s reality.”

    I don’t think the Izanagi works that way, whereby it only affects the user. According to Tobi, the Sage of the six paths used the Izanagi to turn dreams into reality, to create life. He created the nine Bijuu using the Izanagi, so clearly it can affect the world around him and not just himself.

    To me, the way Itachi described the Izanami compared to the Izanagi, is that the Izanagi can alter reality according to the users imagination, which is why the user can alter the reality of their deaths and change their fate, while the Izanami, on the other hand, determines ones reality and then makes it “unchangeable”. In other words, it determines their destiny and seals their fate in stone, so to speak.

    So, it wouldn’t surprise me if Itachi used it to set Kabuto’s “defeat” into stone, thus creating a reality that is unchangeable and dooming Kabuto to that unnavoidable fate.

    In a way, one could also say that in this sense, the Izanami could be a counter to Izanagi, because it would cause the opponent to be incapable of changing their own destinies, thus making the Izanagi’s power null and void.

  47. I have a theory that it connected to their mother, Mikoto in some way. I don’t think it’s a concidence considering the name of the goddess is Isanami-no-Mikoto

  48. “According to Tobi, the Sage of the six paths used the Izanagi to turn dreams into reality, to create life. He created the nine Bijuu using the Izanagi, so clearly it can affect the world around him and not just himself.”

    He turned his own dreams into reality. He didn’t affect anything from the world around him when he created the 9 tailed beasts. He divided the Juubi’s chakra which he already possessed after becoming the Juubi Jinchuuriki.

    “The Izanami, on the other hand, determines ones reality and then makes it “unchangeable”. In other words, it determines their destiny and seals their fate, so to speak.”

    I highly doubt this. If that’s the case then Izanami is unbeatable. Also, if Izanami sets ones destiny in stone don’t you think Itachi would have used it to make Sasuke the Uchiha hero he wanted Sasuke to be?

    “In a way, one could also say that in this sense, the Izanami could be a counter to Izanagi, because it would cause the opponent to be incapable of changing their own destinies, thus making the Izanagi’s power null and void.”

    Only Itachi didn’t say it’s a counter. He said, and I quote; “It’s another one that forms a pair with it”. If it was a counter Itachi would have said so.

    Actually, after reading it again I notice Itachi doesn’t say who Izanami affects. Going with the fact that it’s a pair I now believe Izanami affects the user also. Itachi says Izanagi changes reality and Izanami decides it. Perhaps that’s how the Sage created the 9 beasts. Because we know Izanagi is only permanent so perhaps Izanagi makes the dream or illusion a reality and Izanami than makes it permanent.

  49. I’ve tried to comment here about five times this last week and I don’t know why this hasn’t been posting… sigh….

    @Tenrai Why has Madara waited to use Izanagi do you think? Is he waiting to finish his fight with the Kage’s because he likes his nearly indestructible body and his Hashirama powers?

  50. @ Tenrai the only time we see Izanagi used is to prevent an inevitable death (change fate), so are you saying that Edo Tensei Madara maybe able to stick around if he uses Izanagi before the Technique is ended to keep himself around. First off how would he know when the technique is about to end and second he hasn’t cast it yet so….. I would have to say that Izanagi is not of great use, unless he uses it to get out of a sealing?

  51. @Baron

    “I highly doubt this. If that’s the case then Izanami is unbeatable.”

    Itachi did say that the Izanami was an even higher level than Izanagi right? What else could be better than the ability to create life and change reality itself?

    “Also, if Izanami sets ones destiny in stone don’t you think Itachi would have used it to make Sasuke the Uchiha hero he wanted Sasuke to be?”

    Maybe that’s why he learned it in the first place, as a back-up to set Sasuke on the right path in case Itachi’s original plan was unnable to come to fruition for some reason. Itachi had already considered using Shizui’s sharingan on Sasuke, so it isn’t like this alternative would have been out of the question for him.

    “Only Itachi didn’t say it’s a counter.”

    I know he didn’t, I only suggested it because I was thinking of how Tobi can be beaten when he still has the Izanagi up his sleeves. Or worse yet, if Madara can use the Izanagi as well.

    “Itachi says Izanagi changes reality and Izanami decides it. Perhaps that’s how the Sage created the 9 beasts. Because we know Izanagi is only permanent so perhaps Izanagi makes the dream or illusion a reality and Izanami than makes it permanent.”

    That is another possibility. However, when Danzou prevented his own death, that new reality wasn’t just temporary, so I don’t see why the Izanagi would need the Izanami to complete it in that particular respect. I can, however, understand your point that they form a pair, rather than necessarily being counters to one another.

    In any case, about your point of the Sage’s Izanagi still only affecting himself, didn’t he use it to create other forms of life as well? That still suggests that he can affect the world around himself and not just himself. Of course, we also need to remember that the Sage also had a perfect and complete form of the Izanagi, while others we have seen (Danzo and Tobi) only seem to be able to use an incomplete version of the Izanagi, which is probably the main reason why they lost their sight, and why they can only change their own realities, or so it seems.

    Well, that’s how I see it anyway, I may not be correct. After all, we don’t really have much info on the Izanami to go with other than a few words that are also subject to the nuances of translation glitches.

  52. @Ashes

    If the Izanagi can change one’s fate or reality, I don’t see why Madara can’t use it to avoid dissappearing when Edo Tensei is released, or even to just bring himself back to life properly.

    That is, if he knows how to use it yet…

  53. Oh, and on a final note, happy Easter to all of you who celebrate it! ^ ^

  54. @Tenrai
    Izanami and Izanagi both probably cost a sharingan eye whether your edo tensai resurrected or not as it’s not technically damaging the eye but sealing it permanently. I’m assuming that Madara probably doesn’t want to lose an eye as for him it would be losing not only a sharingan but a riningan as well.

    Also I still say that Madara wasn’t edo tensei summoned by Kabuto durring that battle. I still feel that Kabuto made the Edo’d Tsuchikage Edo summon him. As for the arguments that he didn’t have enough chakra to summon someone as powerfull as Madara, I give this argument.

    The first Hokage was considered to have god like powers and yet Orochimaru was able to summon him with Edo Tensei. I propose that a majority of the energy/chakra needed to summon an Edo Tensei zombie comes from the human sacrifice. Assuming this is the case it makes more sense for Kabuto to have undone the original edo summon of Madara (the one that scared Tobi into letting Kabuto join his side) and make Edo Tsuchikage do another summon.

    If my theory is right then even if Kabuto is made to undo the edo tensei, Edo Madara would be unaffected, I would even go so far as to say that it would eliminate any chances of getting rid of Edo Madara short of besting him and sealing him that way.

    That being said I think Izanami is the ability to alter the fate of another, Much like Izanagi lets you ignore fatal wounds, Izanami probably allows you to ignore that your opponent managed to dodge just in time, allowing you to strike true even though fate would have said otherwise.

  55. @Michael

    I’ll remind you that when Muu summoned Madara, he used a normal Kuchiyose no Jutsu (Summoning Jutsu), as seen in the bottom panel of the page below. He even says “Kuchiyose no Jutsu” and makes no reference to Edo Tensei whatsoever.

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/558/21

    This means that all Muu was doing, was summoning the already revived Madara to the field. You need to remember that Kabuto had already revived Madara long beforehand. He even showed Madara to Tobi in order to get him to cooperate with him, which he could not have done if he had not revived Madara yet, for obvious reasons. If it’s already clear that he revived Madara some time before his meeting with Tobi, then why would Kabuto waste time and resources releasing Madara after that, only to summon him again later? That doesn’t make any rational sense to me.

    In addition to that point, when Kabuto does use Edo Tensei, he doesn’t just use a normal summoning technique like Muu did. Rather, Edo Tensei looks like this…

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/520/12

    As you can see, the extravagant seals that form around the live body that will host the deceased soul are clearly visible here with two Kanji that dislplay the words “Impure” and “World” respectively, where on the other hand they were not even present to begin with when Muu summoned Madara.

    Another flaw in the theory that Muu performed Edo Tensei himself, is that he had no living host body to use as a host for Madara’s soul present at his location, which means he couldn’t have possibly used Edo Tensei as it requires a living body for the technique to work.

    And lastly, the reason Muu struggled to summon Madara was the same reason someone would struggle to summon something as large and powerful as Manda if they had insufficient chakra (Except Sasuke, who seems to be able to perform miracles without any chakra whatsoever). Muu’s chakra was weakened from splitting himself, so it took longer to perform a summoning technique than usual, there isn’t much more to it than that.

  56. All of this discussion about fate takes me back to the Naruto / Neji fight waaaaay back when, when Naruto showed that fate is not determined by blood lines. Think there’s a connection?

  57. @Tenrai
    I believe the summoning Muu performed was not one that summoned Madara to the field but one that summoned the required materials to his position to Edo Summon Madara. Specifically the Human Sacrifice and the DNA sample.

    The images on Mangareader aren’t showing up for me for some reason so I had to look elsewhere but I saw no seal when Muu performed his summoning, also there is no way of determining just how much time there was between the two chapters, he could have easily done as I have proposed in the above paragraph. You’ll also note that even though Edo Tensei’s seal is a lot more elaborate, it doesn’t stick around as you can see on the second page or so of chapter 521.

    As for Muu’s ability to summon Edo Madara after he was resurrected, I do not think he is capable. If the power of a summoned individual indeed affects the ammount of chakra needed to summon them then Madara is way too powerful for a less than half strength Muu to summon. Consider the following, at this point Edo Madara could easilly take just about any individual shinobi that ever lived with only one real exception (the Rikkudo Senin) including Jinchuriki. To me it seems more than a tall order for a weakened Edo Muu could gather the chakra needed to summon him to the battle field.

    In the end I feel that my theory is possible at the least, probable at best.
    We’ll just have to watch and see =]

  58. @ Michael Crume, sorry bro but Tenrai’s right on this one. Muu only did what Kabuto ordered him to do and that’s exactly why he was so surprise when he saw who was inside the coffin. If Muu had any knowledge that Madara was inside the box he wouldn’t have acted so surprise.

    That, plus the fact that Kabuto said “It’s time to use my trump card”. All that indicates Muu was only there to summon Kabuto’s edo tensei coffins to the battlefields, as he did with the 2nd Mizukage, 3 Raikage and the 4th Kazekage. Not much else left to say about this and actually to me that was a pretty str8 forward thing without any hidden meaning.

    And Tenrai you should keep in mind that what you posted about the edo summoning is actually the whole creation process not the actual summoning. What he did in your previous link was the whole process of creating and summoning the soul to inhabit the living body, while on the battlefield we assume all this is already done and the summon is all set to go to action and all the shinobi has to do clap his hand in the Edo Tensei seal and summon the coffin containing the resurrected body + adding the tag in his head in order to take full control of the body.

  59. @Michael

    “I believe the summoning Muu performed was not one that summoned Madara to the field but one that summoned the required materials to his position to Edo Summon Madara. Specifically the Human Sacrifice and the DNA sample.”

    If Kabuto had already resurected Madara before, which we know he did, then why would he need the materials and sacrifices needed to resurect him again? You’re assuming that Kabuto, for some reason, released Madara from his edo tensei summoning, which to me would be pointless because all that would be doing is wasting time and resources when it was easy enough to simply keep Madara in his coffin until he was needed, like he did with Itachi, Deidara, Sasori, etc.

    “If the power of a summoned individual indeed affects the ammount of chakra needed to summon them then Madara is way too powerful for a less than half strength Muu to summon.”

    That isn’t entirely accurate. Remember that Orochinmaru summoned both the first and second Hokage to battle Hiruzen. If we consider now that the first was the “strongest” shinobi to ever live, other than the sage of the six paths himself, then wouldn’t that mean Orochimaru should not have been able to summon him at all, let alone his younger brother at the same time as well?

    I would say it’s a case of the more powerful the summon, the more effort it takes to summon them. Yes, chakra would be a factor, but so would time, because instead of devoting all your chakra to an instantaneous summon, you could simply draw that chakra slowly out over a long period of time to make it more efficient and less taxing on the summoner. We’ve seen examples of this in the past where Jiraiya was preparing to summon the two elder toads. It took him a good few minutes before he was able to summon them and he even had Gamaken fight on his behalf while he continued his long summoning ritual. All this was needed even though he was still at full strength at the time he fought animal path, although he himself said that he was just a tadpole compared to either Fukusaku or Shima, so they are strong, no doubt about it.

    With Muu, it was a case of only having half his chakra, so that effort to summon Madara to the battlefield just took even longer as a result.

    @Eugen

    “And Tenrai you should keep in mind that what you posted about the edo summoning is actually the whole creation process not the actual summoning.”

    The creation process IS Edo Tensei. Summoning someone to a battlefield is not the same as resurecting their soul from the afterlife of the pure world. I was showing the difference between the two, because Michael was presenting a theory whereby he belevied Muu was using Edo Tensei.

    In any case, as for adding the tags to the summoned dead, it’s clear that Kabuto likely did that before any of these battles even started. When Muu summoned the other Kage to the field, I don’t recall him making any effort to place seal tags on them. The same could be said for when he summoned Madara. That’s because it’s likely that Kabuto had already done that long beforehand, after all, most of those he summoned have no allegeance to him, so trying to apply control to them on a battlefield full of enemies would mean risking that process to any manner of interuption, which means he could not only lose control of a powerful summon due to enemy intervention, but that summon could also join forces with the alliance and turn against him, kinda like Itachi did.

  60. Actually Ten, now that you mentioned it, you made me think of something: So far every Edo Tensei Summon in this manga was first summoned and after the Fuda tag was placed in there head to gain complete control over them. This happened to the 1st and 2nd Hokage, to Didara and Sasori and the fat Mist Shinobi who was supposed to have a kekegenkai and to many others, the only one I can think of that hasn’t been given any time to insert a tag is Madara himself.

    The former kages and the other dead shinobi were summoned beforehand and send to the battlefield, so Kabuto had time to place a tag inside there skull, but Madara was only showed to Tobi and then resealed in the coffin until his summoning to the battle by Muu.

    In this time span Kabuto could have placed the tag any given time but if you take a close look to the way kabuto speaks to Madara it’s just like he wants to gain Madara’s respect and permission to use him.

    I actually think Kabuto can’t control Madara one bit in the present moment only to unsummon him and seal him but other then that I think Madara has no strings attached what so ever.

  61. @Eugen

    That is a possibility. Perhaps Kabuto wanted Madara to retain his free will in order to see him demonstrate his full potential. He may also want to gain Madara as an ally, rather than simply use him as a pawn.

    Still, that would also be very risky. Kabuto risks a huge backfire if that’s the case and he’s always seemed so cautious.

  62. @tenrai
    I think I have covered most of what you went over just not in once post so let me try to put it mostly down in one post. I’ll try to keep it condensed

    The reason I believe there is to undo Madara’s initial Edo Summoning

    Kabuto would have likely considered the posibility that Tobi or someone else could potentially force him by some means to release the Edo Tensei, this is within reason as he tends to be crazy prepared.

    To prevent this all he has to do is have someone else Edo Tensei summon him. If that person that Edo Summoned him was an Edo Tensei then so much the better as if Kabuto’s Edo Tensei jutsu were released then you would literally be getting rid of the only person who could release Edo Madara’s Edo Tensei. Thereby forcing your enemies to seal him the hard way.

    I believe Muu had the power to summon the required materials to his position and the ability to do the Edo Tensei (seeing as the human sacrifice most likely provides the required energy for the summon in the first place).

    If it isn’t that way then the Madara fight with the Kages may just have a rather anticlimactic ending, otherwise Kishi will have to have Madara pull another Dues Ex Machina out of his arse.

    Either way you have to admit that it would be an impressive set up to have an edo tensei’d summon use Edo Tensei to summon other edo zombies just so you could have a nearly unstopable army.

  63. @ Michael – Yo Dawg, I heard you like edo tensei so I put an edo tensai in your edo tensei @___@

    Something like that?

  64. @ Michael Crume, that would be a good back up plan, the way you presented the facts but the only down side is that Muu didn’t know Edo Tensei. The only time he had to deal with it was in his fights with Tobirama Senjuu, other then that only Orochimaru and Kabuto learned this jutsu and I doubt Kabuto would have showed Muu how to use it and risk presenting a glitch with witch Muu could take command of the Edo Army.

    Kabuto stated time and again that the jutsus is unbeatable, but I doubt the jutsu is that great, even if Tobirama created it. If that were the case Tobirama would have used edo summons to counter the 20+ Kumo nin that were on his and his team’s tail and survive long after that (supposed) death encounter.

    Just my two cents. I for one don’t think Kishi is the type of guy to hide things like this in substrate after he already explains the use and hicks of the jutsu. Remember Kisame and Zetsu’s switch in the water bubble, that was a situation in witch he could take advantage of the unknown variables but here we have all the cards in front of us.

    I’m sorry but I just don’t see a Edo Summon pawn like Muu is to be able to use his free will and Kabuto risking to give him that much freedom. Madara and Itachi, so far seem like the only guys who can oppose Kabuto and that’s because they have a very very very very high hex level in there Sharingans.

    @ Everyone

    If Itachi learned so many hidden Sharingan jutsus in his short life I think Madara is now fully aware of Izanagi and Izanami considering he read the tablet long before Itachi and probably Tobi and also the power and wisdom Madara possesses would make him the pinnacle of the Uchiha. I would like to see if he would use this forbidden jutsus against the Kages right when they think they’ve beaten him. Now that would be a epic move on Madara’s part and the despair on there faces will be epic.

    The thing I’m most curious about is if one possesses the EMS, like Madara and Sasuke, and use Izanagi (and probably Izanami) will there eyes be lost in the darkness or will they survive with only the major chakra drain, and how about casting the jutsus with the Rinnegan. I wish Kishi would clear all this doujutsu mess up because from the start of this manga I’ve heard so many stories that I for one don’t know what to believe anymore:

    first we’ve been told that the Sharingan was a deviation of the Byakugan, now we see that if your a total badass and complete the 5 stages of the sharingan (1 tomoe, 2 tomoe, 3 tomoe, Mangekyo, Eternal Mangekyo) and eat all your veggies you’ll get the Rinnegan.

    I wish from the bottom of my heart that by the end of this war neji will be pushed so far into a corner that he’ll suddenly spam a Sharingan and open the way to Uchiha revival all by himself and this completing the circle he started with Naruto so many years ago and toss destiny to the trash, thus making a new start for everyone.

  65. :))) lol Pein =)) that made me laugh so hard I almost fall with my seat !!!!

  66. @ Eugen – maybe when Kabuto takes control of a summon, like he did with Muu he can then use jutsu through that person? Kind of like how he is able to speak through Muu, this would explain the Edo Tensei but saying that Muu is in fact the creater of this Madara’s edo seems a bit of a stretch, it would be cool it would mean that Madara could remain a villain even after the war but, it would also mean that somehow Kabuto switch the contract when we have already seen Kabuto summon Madara long before revealing Muu… Weird though that Muu was able to summon the other Kage’s and I think Zabuza was able to summon the other swordsmen…?

    I think the Sharingan will be sealed once the jutsu is used, unless you have the vitality of the Senju… or else Madara (should know Inzagi) wouldn’t bother using the Rinnegan to absorb techniques. I think that its a ability no mater what with a cost though the length and strength of a inzagi with EMS and MS may be different to that of the one Danzou used…

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