Naruto Chapter 574 Breakdown: My emo sense is tingling…

They say that a person’s eyes are the windows to their soul. If you take that concept literally with regards to Naruto, then one could say that Sasuke’s eyes most certainly represent him as an individual in almost every way. They are a sign of his strength, power and his ambition, but at the same time, they also harbor and reflect his feelings and emotions.

Every time you see him, you can’t help but notice how his eyes have changed as time has progressed, from the wide-eyed, curious gaze he adorned during his younger years – before his hardships began – to the darkened glare that now mars his expression, Sasuke’s eyes tell a story about his journey into a cold abyss, and in this latest chapter, one could say that they were at their darkest so far.

When our eyes are closed off to the light, only darkness remains in our hearts.

Before I get too far ahead of myself with this chapter – and with the subject of Sasuke as a character – I suppose I really should take a few steps back and start at the beginning of the story. Now usually, I’m not the type of person who is really interested in the escapades of team Hawk as a whole, because I find their involvement in this war as more intrusive than significant and they always seem to be an afterthought as far as the main plot is concerned. However, this latest chapter threw a spanner into the works and seemingly made the remnants of Sasuke’s old team important again.

It starts with something simple – the suggestion that Karin is about to escape from Konoha’s prison cells and possibly caused havoc – but then it moves onto something far more mysterious as the scene changes to Juugo and Suigetsu, the latter of whom finds a curious unknown item in Orochimaru’s lair after a brief bout with the former.

Suigetsu just discovered some scandalous pictures of Sasuke's affair with Orochimaru. Can anyone say "blackmail?" <_<

Of course, much like the mysteries of “That Jutsu” and the enigma that is Tobi, Kishi has once again left us with yet another set of question marks above our head as he introduces another unknown factor into the plot. Now we’re left asking ourselves what the possible contents of the scroll Suigetsu found might be and why it is considered to be so profound.

In my personal opinion, I believe it has something to do with evolving the Sharingan into Rinnegan. Orochimaru always had a deep fascination with immortality and learning all jutsu in existence, so acquiring the Sharingan from Sasuke (his original plan), only to then evolve it to the Rinnegan, would most certainly have helped him meet those goals.

This would also remain consistent with other events in the story, as Kabuto has already suggested in his discussions with Madara that he had suspected that the Sharingan was capable of evolving under the right conditions and it seems that he and Orochimaru had likely already investigated and experimented with this subject matter in the past, as suggested by the page below.

There’s a good possibility that Suigetsu has just found a collection of the data Kabuto and Orochimaru had previously compiled some time ago already. It would also explain why Suigetsu would believe this information would make a suitable gift for Sasuke, as he is the one individual who would benefit the most from it if, especially it involves making his eyes even more powerful than they already are.

In fact, for all we know, when one considers how Orochimaru had injected numerous different antibodies and who knows what else into Sasuke in the past, there’s a chance he already implanted some of Hashirama’s cells into him as well, which means Sasuke might already be at a stage where he could awaken the Rinnegan. For those of you who were wondering if there was a possibility of Sasuke acquiring the Rinnegan, this may just be the missing link that would make such an event possible.

But, that’s just one theory. What are all of your thoughts on this mystery?

If anyone else has any theories regarding this matter, I’d love to read them, so feel free to post them in the comments section. Maybe someone will hit the nail right on the head. All DIY aside, let’s get back to the subject of Sasuke, the real star of this chapter and beloved of many, including Ahsan and Deathcon4.

I told you not to pull my finger...

Things are pretty much how we would expect them to be as far as our renowned brooding Uchiha is concerned. Sasuke was busy taking his emo stroll through the emo storm – all alone and peaceful… and emo – only for him to then be suddenly and rather rudely interrupted by some rather cranky anti-emo squad members.

Unfortunately for this small crop of white Zetsu’s, they all died gruesome, horrible deaths. Of course, we readers simply nodded our heads at this overly predictable outcome, because by now we all know that white Zetsu’s are simply cannon fodder used to help demonstrate how strong everyone else is, but what was more fascinating about this turn of events was Sasuke’s demeanor throughout it all.

The last time we saw Sasuke, he had practically lost the plot – so to speak – and was behaving like some sort of maniacal crackpot. This time, however, he was completely calm again, as if he had returned back to the old Sasuke he had been before he killed Itachi, albeit just darker. Perhaps his last encounter with Naruto affected him in a far more profound way than he would care to admit. Naruto’s words, whereby he told Sasuke to focus all his hatred towards Konoha towards him instead, seems to have given Sasuke a sense of drive and purpose, the same kind of purpose he had when Itachi was the sole target for his hatred.

In a way, you could say that Naruto has replaced Itachi as the “sacrifice” to quell Sasuke’s hatred and Sasuke seems to acknowledge that, because he even promised that Naruto would be the “first to die”, which means no-one else in Konoha would fall before him. Sasuke even seems to honor this unofficial agreement between the two of them by taking out his frustrations on a white Zetsu, all the while reiterating his dedication to this unspoken contract by saying “you are not shinobi from Konoha. You are not included in my promise.”

It’s this kind of behavior that leads me to believe that, despite anything Sasuke says, in truth he has an unusual form of respect for Naruto. Perhaps he sees Naruto as an equal after all, and maybe, deep down inside, he is waiting to see Naruto prove himself in a similar way Kurama also wanted to see proof that Naruto had what it took to back up his words and his promises. Maybe Sasuke really just wants to be saved from his hatred and he just needs someone strong enough to do it. Naruto, all the while, seems prepared to bear his wrath and animosity, and it wouldn’t be the first time he has undertaken this kind of burden either.

Even though we might like to, we can't carry all the hardships of the world on our shoulders alone. No person is strong enough to bear such a burden...

There is also a slight possibility that by taking Itachi’s eyes, Sasuke may have inadvertently inherited some of his will as well, which would explain why he is suddenly so calm again. Perhaps Itachi’s desire to protect Konoha has imbedded some doubts in Sasuke’s mind about destroying it. It may not be obvious or prominent; just a nagging feeling that tickles the back of Sasuke’s subconscious without him realizing it.

The transition from Sasuke’s eyes to Itachi’s on the last two pages of this chapter definitely suggest a link might be present. The last page also suggests that a meeting between the two brothers may be inevitable and I can only wonder how such an event would turn out. Either way, despite all this, Sasuke seems to be dead-set on killing Naruto, which means the battle between darkness and light may arrive sooner than we think.

So... we can't do it somewhere else? O_o

Would a meeting with Itachi somehow deter Sasuke from his chosen path? I somehow doubt it, because it seems that to Sasuke, his purpose in life is to always be an avenger and I don’t think even Itachi could change that now. Sasuke is too dependent on that single focus to simply give it up or abandon it, otherwise, he may lose his purpose and therefor, his reason for existing.

Much like how Gaara saw killing others as a way of acknowledging his own existence, Sasuke may also follow a similar creed. Anyway, I guess that’s all I have to say for this latest chapter. I apologize if my breakdown was a bit long again, but I guess I had a lot to say.

Here are the winners of last week’s bubbliton contest:

3rd) Holydemonandy

Bubble: F***** Naruto, using his harem no jutsu again.

2nd) Gavin

Bubble: “Can’t… stop… watching… virtual porn.”
Caption: 2012, The end of humanity with this new technology.

Kantonkage: Inoichi after getting caught by Shikaku.

Well done to Kantonkage for not coming second.

As for this week, I decided not to do a bubbliton contest, because I couldn’t really find a panel that seemed suitable from this latest chapter. Instead, I’m hoping to hear some good theories on what all of you think Suigetsu found in Orochimaru’s lair.

See you all in the comments. ^ ^


~ by Tenrai Senshi on February 21, 2012.

152 Responses to “Naruto Chapter 574 Breakdown: My emo sense is tingling…”

  1. Silence I am first. *attacks Tenrai with a chainsaw/scythe thing*

  2. Second! Time to go read the BD…

  3. Omg yes! Hiruzen Sarutobi!!!!!!!!!!!!11!1 /m\

  4. Kantonkage seems to like attacking me. Even when I give him first place in a Bubbliton contest. <__<

    Is this his way of showing affection? O__o

  5. first!….. damn

  6. Sauske was a skater boy
    kohna said see you later boy
    he wasn’t good enough for ino
    now hes an avenger
    whailin’ on naruto….
    ok that jokes gone on long enough. The mysterious intel’ is going to be something to help naruto not hurt Tobi. I’m laying that much on the table. Ill hold out on saying its a way to evolve the rinnagin (even though that seems most likely) because I’ve always wanted the next Naruto/Sauske battle to be a sage/EMS battle not Sage/Rinnagin mark 2.

  7. @coolbeans
    its not gonna be sage/ems its gonna be kyubi chakra mode / ems and then if sasuke does get the rinnegan id imagine naruto wud have to find a way to mix sage and kyubi mode to beat it unless he masters “that jutsu” (which i believe was the tailed beast ball)

  8. *help naruto should read help sauske

  9. I just thought of what else Orochimaru could be hiding, and that is a means to acquire the other half of Kurama’s chakra. Imagine Naruto had the Yin and Sasuke had the Yang. Then it would truly be a battle between two oposites in every way. @___@

    Maybe I should add that possibility to my poll…

  10. @Tenrai, isn’t that supposed to be sealed away for ever and ever, amen?

    Then again, it’s Orochimaru….

  11. @ten the addition of orochimaru to anything busts the field wide open. that crazy s.o.b was into all kinds of weird um lets say “science”. anything from life extending to chemical power ups, to transformation/transfering jutsu to whatever he was doing to sauske with the leather mask and chains *shivers* is on the table. the death god seal is supposed to seal the power forever but the rinnagin makes you the master of death. all you need is some manga spice (something about the power being so great that its still retrievable after this much time or what ever other hundred manga reasons kishi comes up with) and youve got a theory dish ready to serve. im not sure thats a direction that i personally wish it to go but its for sure a very plausible and very manga-esq story line.

  12. I will comment after reading the next chapter..

    that is all.

  13. @Dish

    Y U no comment now? <___<

    The blogs pretty quiet this week, it seems. T___T

  14. Spoilers are out. True story

  15. @Eugen

    I posted them on the blog, under the spoilers section. <_<

  16. *Spoiler alert*

    Sorry for the double then, It looks like Madara truly is now at peak of power and Kabuto seems to have a more dedicated mind then Orochimaru had in his pursuit of knowledge.

  17. @Eugen

    Lol. Alright, I think some people get a bit confused, but I created the spoiler section as a place for people to view and discuss spoilers for the manga we do breakdowns for. This gives all the users on WRA a place to discuss spoilers separate from the main breakdown areas, so that those who don’t want to be ‘spoiled’ can avoid them and simply continue to discuss the chapter on the breakdown sections as per usual. Preferably, I would like to keep spoiler discussions separate from the main manga discussion areas.

    Your above comment had no spoiler warnings (I’ve since edited it), so someone might accidentally read it and spoil the surprise of reading the manga when it comes out by reading details they didn’t want to see beforehand.

    I hope this isn’t too much of an inconvenience to everyone. Rather, I was hoping it would serve to better the experience for all users on the blog.

  18. The thing is , Ten, while we used to have spoilers 2 days in advanced before the mangas came out, now we usually get the spoilers a few hours before the manga is being released by the sites. So i’m sorry for causing a inconvenience with my last post, but regarding what I said earlier I don’t see any reason why people who come here reading the manga would discuss something that might be very important on the spoiler section and have to repeat the same statement back on the manga breakdown.

    That’s my biggest drawback concerning this protocol

  19. @Eugen

    It’s something I hoped to make work for everyone, not just some people, and I do know some readers don’t like to see spoilers. If we want WRA to grow as a blog and as a site, we need to be accomodating not just to some readers, but to all readers, and these changes were made with those goals in mind. I don’t see why or how commenting on spoilers in a spoiler section is a big deal or a major inconvenience, but if everyone is against it, they are more than welcome to say it and I will simply do away with the system.

    I would like more feedback on this subject from everyone if possible.

  20. Ten, I know we had a big discussion about this thing and Penny got a bit of a uprising on her hands so I too will most likely leave the spoiler section as it is now. I only posted the spoilers here by mistake and maybe from the rush I had when I actually read about them, so the real problem is actually my mistake and I see no need to change an already good thing just because someone like myself thinks it’s easier not to have a separate section.

    Truth be told democracy already spoke and the separate spoiler section was made just for that and it was a great ideea so IMO we should just keep it as it is and I’ll try not to forget to post the spoilers in there correct place.

  21. @Eugen

    Yeah, but that situation involved only posting links to the spoilers and not discussing them, period, so I can understand why that was not ideal.

    Anyway, I don’t mean to come across as some sort of blog police officer and I am sorry if I did. I also wasn’t trying to make your mistake out to be a big deal because really it wasn’t. I just didn’t know if everyone was aware that we had a spoiler section, which is why I bought it up. It wasn’t to single you out in any way.

    I hope I didn’t sound like a dictator. X___X

  22. It’s all good Ten, don’t worry about it, after all we do need a bit of order in everything we do.

  23. @ten/eugen, now you two kiss and make up!!! @_o


  24. The chapter is out,and it`s awesome:

  25. i love it when we get flshbacks of former kages and as of today we know how all 3 of the tsuchikages look like. Madara truly is a of epic proportions and just like Kabuto said he’ the strongest guy out there, probably on the same level as Naruto, the dude can even make use of Izanagi and with the rinnegan I doubt he can go blind anymore and I’m willing to bet even the EMS ca use it without loosing ones sight so Sasuke might be in the books for Izanagi also seeing as he knows exactly how it works when he fought Danzou.

  26. So, Itachi and Sasuke meet after all. It’s anyone’s guess how that will turn out, because I can’t see Itachi convincing Sasuke not to take revenge and yet I also don’t just see Sasuke blatantly attacking Itachi either.

    Unless Sasuke truly believes he isn’t his real brother, in which case, we may see a battle between the two after all. If that does happen, it will act as a good measure for Sasuke’s new strength.

    As for Madara, and Hashirama’s apparent strength, we now know that Hashirama was stronger than any Shinobi currently alive. He was even stronger than Madara, which stands to reason because he defeated Madara. The question is, how does he compare to some of the shinobi who aren’t alive anymore, like Hiruzen, Tobirama, or Minato, his successors? I think I’ll put that in a poll in the next breakdown. Lol.

    Still, Kabuto doesn’t know that Naruto now holds Kurama’s full power now, or that Sasuke has the EMS, so his statement may only apply to what he is currently aware of. It would be interesting to know how those two compare as well, because they will likely eventually both replace Hashirama and Madara respectively.

    Overall, it was a good chapter. I’m glad to see it isn’t all just about the Uchiha all the time and that the Senju’s true strength is finally being related to us.

  27. @ten, sauske may outright attack itachi if he gives some kind of “omg this is an abomination to the uchia name, i must now destroy you and the jutsu wielder rarrr” and then he would cut himself and cry about his dad not hugging him enough. but the first part was true he could go all “this shall not stand!”
    Hashirama takes the other kages hands down, he was elected hokage at the same time his brother was also in his prime so thats a pretty easy argument to make. the fourth was strong but he lost to a madara wana-be. the only question id have is they mention a few times that the third was the best of the kages or some wording like that (smartest, most skilled, something like that depending on which version you read) so he might be a wild card in the debate. he did stand up to edo tensi hashirama/tobirama/ orochimaru attack when he was well into probably his 70’s or so (aka old as balls and should have been retired for no less than 16+ years, ie. when minato died but his reign time was undefined as far as i know)

    on that note my prediction is somtime in the next few chapters we are going to start seeing LOTS of flashbacks, i mean all five kages on the rope against a combo of 2 legends, sauske running into itachi, naruto in a possition that in the past kishi has used to take time out of the battle for the discussion and or boasting phase (“haha youll never overcome my hate… wana know why?” 2 chapters later “so now what do you think of me, hahaha”)

  28. ok, my crazy just for joke theories as of late have had at least a bit of fruition in the manga soooo, whats the chances sauske talks to itachi for a bit and then they together go to see and or pwn kabuto-maru?

  29. i mean im just saying, a “free” itachi and sauske going to meet kabuto and presumably orochimarus memories or something like that could, under totally different circumstances and settings, be almost the better part of an arc by itself. its only speculation because no one can actually know where the story will continue in the way down the line sense but think of the story possibilities that would be opened up from even a short convo between them that would contain lots of, “that.. certain man” or “no, no not….” or lots of other ways mangas use to say that they expect to pick up a topic later

  30. @coolbeans: What are you talking about. Minato didn’t lose to Tobi. It was the exact opposite (if your talking about the day Naruto was born.) The all out kage battle would be fun. I really don’t know who’d win.

    I don’t like what keeps getting added on to manga’s. First, the people of Konoha considered the 3rd Hokage to be the strongest of them all. Now the 1st Hokage is said to have been so powerful that was considered mythical? Come on. I’m tired of the changing ideas kishi is spewing. I didn’t like how he is still using Orochimaru as a main villain even though he is dead… He was killed by a regular sharingan Sauske for crying out loud. And then Kishi decided to keep Oro by saying how he worked on the 1st Hokage and Madara, and had all this information; enough info to bring the Shinobi Alliance to it’s knees and the evolution of a Sharingan to a Rinnegan? hogwash I say! For the whole of the Narutoverse to be calling themselves ninja’s they really can’t be secretive with their identites and what they’re capable of. So many people know so much about each other, it’s not even cool. I bet there is an even more evil ninja other then Kabuto, Tobi, or Sauske. I bet he’s the most ninja of them all. Nobody knows he exist, he’s really in the shadows, now wouldn’t that be a site?

    @chapter: I think Sauske is caught in an Itachi genjutsu. There is no way Itachi didn’t notice him. I bet itachi is doing the whole genjutsu thing to communicate or test sauske. yeah yeah sauske has the EMS but he wasn’t really using it.

    I am really confused on the Madara and 1st Hokage unity. Was he added on to Madara when Madara was still alive? Or were those cells implanted on to him in his edo tensi form? Because it looked like Madara knew what was added on to him. That is the same face that is on the roots that are growing the white zetsu. How is the 1st being used? wasn’t his soul taken into the Death Demon? I wonder if there is another shinobi that knows the Death Demon seal? I think Minato learned how to create from an Uzumaki. Kushina’s mom was the one who taught him sealing techniques, so he must have sought out a temple in the whirlpool village ruins or something.

    I’ma just wait until next week, then maybe Kishi might drop a bombshell and tell us all those things he kept secret: “That jutsu…” ; what Master Jirayi did with the scroll that he sealed the Amerterasu in, in the first part ; Oro diabolical scheme ; Tobi’s identity ; the reason the Byakugan was considered so powerful in the first part that Kakashi said the sharingan was created from it, then was casted aside in the 2nd part ; Hinata’s relationship with Naruto (are the ever gonna bone or what?); What the Uchiha were doing on the night Kurama attacked etc. etc.

  31. @thelaughingwiseman, minato and his wife died just to make tobi run away….sooooo

  32. oh and @thelaughingwiseman i agree with the most of that. it always bugged me that the “ninjas” had the myth powers of ninjas but literally nothing else since shippuden began and some before. there is 0 anonymity or stealth really. they are all super stealthy until they all run into each other and thats all cool… you have to work in four man teams but always split up as soon as you encounter the enemy ext… but i always swallow my pride and say its cool thats just manga format. and im too busy with other manga resarch to go check but i was right, right? they did say something like the 3rd was the strongest/best i know it was different on the 2 sites i used to read back then but it did say something like that. now the 1st is the end all be all, not to mention the legendary sannin orochi was pwned by like level 3 or so sauske (now idk but a lot of power ups later) but at some point it gets harder to swallow the differences and just say its cool thats only 20 mistakes i wont be mad till it gets to 30.

  33. beans- no my friend minato defeated him. to the point where tobi had to retreat. but it didn’t matter all that much cuz he was spouting something about having plenty of time to get his revenge/immortalness or something like that. minato n kushina died stopping the kyubbi. tobi was effectively defeated at that time personally though.

    sweet chapter, glad kishi went back to revisit this battle.
    even if itachi n sasuke do talk, I doubt it’ll be a particularly long conversation..itachi already told naruto he wasn’t gonna try to convince sauske to stop.

  34. @dish im glad the community has enough contributors to point out my oversights because now that you mention it your right and TLM as well i had the time line a bit wrong. but when the fourth talked to naruto he said that “he” saw through everything he did… not really what the battle showed but lets just chalk that up to, 570ish chapters is hard to keep 100% congruent. fair enough? also i agree with the itachi/sausu part see my above post. “raarr this is an abomination”

  35. @ Laughingwiseman

    Nice.. There are lots of answers we need to all of those questions.. 😀 And i’m so effing excited to know even just one from those..

  36. @dish and i say that because i post without fact checking from time to time and if no one points it out then whats the fun of an interactive community. lol um jerk or something umm im grr *beans throws dirt at dish and runs away*

  37. We don’t know yet if Itachi really didn’t notice Sasuke coming. We’ll find out in the next chapter. 😀 I just wonder how in the world did Madara acquired Hashirama’s cell. Now my theory is still alive that the man behind the mask(Tobi) is Hashirama. He might gotten some of Madara’s power too.

  38. @pisbolman never thought of that but the fact the he only shows some if any of the established uchia powers and he has shown a huge control of the tailed beast has got to be a pretty good plus to that theory… there are things that need to be filled in but dont forget its a combo power theory so not to out there really. only problem is hashirama was resurected by edo tensai and then sealed away so tobi being him or madara are now in the if-y category id think.

  39. I for one am sure Sasuke will most likely be all ears now that he has one more chance to save Itachi from death and he’ll try to probably make his resurrection permanent, and the only way to do that is to gain the rinnegan and hocus pocus some Yin Yang combination to make his will become reality.

    Maybe I’ve went a little to far there but non the less Sasuke will share some intense moments with Itachi but he will still pursue his goal and promise to Naruto to have there epic fight.

    As far as Hokages go, I for one consider the following hierarchy:
    Minato/Hashirama sharing the firs place, Tobirama a close second due to the fact that he was the father of some great forbidden ninjutsu and just like his brother he had tons of chakra that allowed him to use the Suiton to such a great level, the same way Hashirama could make forests in seconds. The next is Hiruzen who in spite of the fact that he was considered the professor of ninjutsu in Konoha, didn’t really show all that much.

    I know all of you will throw the Kage battle down my neck, but let’s be realistic and agree that Edo Hashirama and Tobirama from the Konoha Invasion were so weak, compared to what they were know for in the past, that I would go and say Kakashi and Gai can probably take them out on there own.

    True Hiruzen also had Orochimaru to deal with but he was still not enough of a epic fight to change my mind.
    And finally the last one is Tsunade, who didn’t show anything in her fight with Kabuto way back, she didn’t do any fighting with Pain and now she’s not contributing with action against Madara, so all she’s good for is healing and trowing a good punch, even Danzou was better prepared.

    Minato was truly a peak shinobi because of his FTG and his knowledge of seals and other ninjutsu, that added with his skill in taijutsu and assassin instincts made him one of the greatest shinobi out there.

    Concerning Edo Madara, I was wondering the same thing about the integration of Hashirama’s cells into his body. Now we’re split between 2 things we know for sure:

    1. Orochimaru was the greatest scientific mind in Narutoverse and he pretty much wrote the book on the 1st son and 2nd son DNA fusion. So what Kabuto said makes the most sense and we can pretty much be sure Kabuto integrated the cells into Madara’s Edo Body and made him “Above his Peak”
    2. Madara lost to Hashirama at the Valley of the End for this exact reason and probably was going to do this merger on his own, seeing as Tobi already used Hashirama’s cells for the Zetsus we can conclude that both him and Madara were capable of using the Cells of Hashirama on themselves.
    That’s why Madara looked to his heart with no surprise and that’s why he said he’ll use Maokuton with such confidence, because he knew he already used it before and knew the impact it would have on the army.

    Now both points of view can be valid but witch one is it, and if it’s the later, then why did Madra die with a body of epic powers that had both Uchiha and Senjuu running through it’s vanes and the Rinnegan on top of that.

    He should have been able to save his own life and do cast Izanagi on himself with no problems at all.

  40. Just remember, who the most powerful ninja was, according to Kabuto, was based on his own opinion. That doesn’t necessarily make it fact. I’d say, take away Madara’s Rinnegan, leave him with the EMS and no Mokuton, and Hashirama was probably a bit more powerful than that. Not much more powerful though, because from flashbacks and such, it looks like the battle between Madara and Hashirama was close fought.

    We’re getting the wrong impression here because Madara is using his own and Hashirama’s power at the moment and defeating the five Kage with them, but would he be doing as well with only one half of that power? Let’s consider the facts:

    1: Madara is an immortal Edo Tensei Zombie. He’s already been hit with a few attacks that would have been fatal if he were alive, so even with the combined strength he has, he’s only winning this battle because he can regenerate.

    2: Madara has his and Hashirama’s strength. If he only had one or the other, he wouldn’t be doing as well as he is.

    3: Hashirama was chosen as the first Hokage because of his ability to control all the Bijuu and because he had a number of them in his posession at the time Konoha was formed. It wasn’t because he was infinitely more powerful than anyone else. He just had the right stuff as far as an image of power was concerned. He still decided to give away the bijuu in either case though.

    4: Kabuto said that Hashirama was stronger than any ninja currently alive (according to some translations). He never said anything about Ninja who were already dead, which means the likes of Orochimaru, Itachi, Minato, Hiruzen, Tobirama, Nagato, Jiraiya, etc, are still in the runnings and Ninja like Naruto and Sasuke, whose most recent growth Kabuto is unnaware of, are also probably comparable as well.

    The Sage of the Six Paths still pwns everyone though.

  41. <__<

    *reads chapter*

    @ Chapter – I must say Naruto's gotten boring to me. We are basically seeing the exact same flash back we seen before only instead of Fire we now have Stone. Oonik being actually a dancing nice guy seems to be a theme that Kishi now just repeats over and over again. If it said, the will of the Village is like this stone, Strong Rigid and unchanging, then the new Oonik saying maybe sometimes a stone should learn to adapt and join together to create a wall… For example would of been cool, it would of shown the change that has happened over the past few days within him and not just saying the change was always there and he just changing back…

    2nd Issue I have is the over powering of the 1st Hokage, seriously this is the same guy that was sealed (while fighting with his brother and Orochimaru) by a super old 3rd Hokage who had trouble keeping up with the Kyuubi… I remember people tuning Bleach because power levels don't matter but Naruto does the same now. We have this "God" in the 1st Hokage but when he had a chance to battle he was ineffective…

    Madara is at the moment my favorite character, EMS from 2 brothers of the Uchiha Clan and the Wood Release of the 1st Hokage and brought him back using the 2nd Hokage's Jutsu…

    Sasuke meeting with Itachi seemed a bit of a rush job, I look forward to it but it felt like kishi just rushed the art work on it cause he wanted this effect at the end of the chapter…

  42. @ Tenrai – but Kabuto also stated that they referred to him similar to the Sage of 6 Paths.

    We cannot say however how strong Madara is since we haven’t seen him in the manga yet without the abilities of the 1st Hokage or at least his vitality…

    But if the 1st wasn’t as powerful as the 3rd why would his power be Legendary… It just seems too randomly thought up…

    Also Madara may have been hit but the hell Oonik and Gaara should be dead by now, they been fighting this battle for how long and I remember Oonik being finished when the 2 astroids came now he summoning and using dust etc etc… Even with Tsunade healing she heals the body not the chakra as I understand it PLUS Tsunade released her seal so she shouldn’t have infinite chakra either while Madara has the vitality of the 1st and the Edo Tensei. This is truly bugging me, Kishi shows us a character nearly dead then a few chapters later he has more energy then freaking Naruto… @___@

  43. @pein – It’s a bit of a stretch but I think Naruto had something to do with them being charged up again. I recall him having profound effects of Yamato’s mokuton. So I guess while his clone was fighting with Madara, it was recharging them up… That’s the best I can come up with.

  44. @Pein

    Firstly, Hashirama may have been legendary, but so was Madara. His name was so revered, Tobi used it to succesfully start a war.

    Hiruzen was also lengendary in his own right, as he was known throughout the Shinobi world as “The Professor” because of his knowledge and mastery of over 1000 jutsu. It doesn’t make either of them godly though. Remember, most legends steer away from facts, and very few are 100 percent accurate, and the longer time someone is dead, the more their exploits fall into legend and the more mysterious and revered they become.

    It’s like the legends of the Gold and Silver brothers and how they ate Kyuubi flesh and almost killed the second Hokage and the Raikage. Yet, they were both defeated by three Chuunin and a Jounin. When legends come alive again, they often fail to live up to their often exagerated reputations. <___<

    As for this battle, you say half the Kage should be dead by now, but remember, technically, that first meteor would have killed Madara as well. He had to regenerate after the impact so if it weren't for Edo Tensei, his own technique would have killed him and he was aware of that. He's using his immortality to his advantage, but without it, this Kage battle wouldn't be so one-sided.

    Remember, there's a difference between Tsunade healing someone who is still alive and breathing, and regenerating from being oblitterated in an attack that would kill any normal living person. Also, Tsunade didn't release her seal fully. She only release part of it's chakra to heal herself, but she already remarked how she wouldn't make the same mistakes she did against Pein.

  45. @ Tenrai – I think you confused… I know Madara’s cheating he has the ability to be immortal, that is explained but now the 5 kage’s have shown that they where finished and tired a couple of chapters ago… its almost like when Sasuke was… I have no strength… lets summon manda… @___@ now they summoning using elemental techs etc, always using the “last” of their chakra but never running out lol

    I mean how the hell is it that, Gaara was Physically tired after fighting his Father and the Mizukage and Muu but now he pulling Jutsu like its coming out of fashion… Oonik even more so, his back given in more times in this battle then I believe any human can withstand… he probably broke each bone… plus he was tired too against the same oponents as Gaara…

    Now he can use Dust Elements as much as he wants almost summoning golems etc… It just doesn’t make sense… Then Tsunade uses a jutsu that usually uses up all her chakra now she can use it all the time…

  46. @ Wiseman – Only thing is Naruto wasn’t there very long after the other kages arrived so… not sure how that works and most of all Naruto would help Madara more then the other kages lol

  47. @Pein

    Actually, Tsunade and the Raikage came into the battle fresh. They were at HQ pretty much during the entire war, so it stands to reason both would have come into the battle at full strength.

    Even the Mizukage should have been near full strength, because she seemed to take less part in the battle against Black Zetsu. The only two Kage that would have been exhausted were Gaara and Oonoki. When Tsunade healed them, there’s nothing to say she can’t give them some of her chakra to help them recover as well.

    And once again, Tsunade didn’t fully release her seal. She only used some of the chakra from her forehead seal, not a lot of it, so I don’t see why you think it’s a big deal or why you feel she should suddenly be exhausted. Maybe you’re underestimating how much chakra she actually has.

    In the battle against Pein, Tsunade was healing just about every single shinobi and civilian in Konoha, and she still manage to make her chakra last long enough for Naruto’s arrival. Only then did she finally become exhausted. Note, at that time, she was healing hundreds, if not thousands of individuals at the same time, all with her own chakra. I don’t see why it’s so hard to believe that she can heal just herself and five Kage without running out of chakra, when she was healing thousands at a time just a month or so before. It’s not like Pein’s siege on Konoha was short-lived either, so Tsunade was weathering that storm for quite a while. I’m pretty sure she can last for a decent amount of time with a lot less healing to deal with.

    If you ask me, the only one that seems odd is the Tsuchikage and how long he has lasted. Once again, there is a chance that when Tsunade heals people, she could give them some of her chakra as well, but that’s open to debate. Gaara I can understand lasting long because he was a former Jinchuuriki and he probably has very high chakra reserves. It may also take very little chakra for him to control sand, for all we know, so we can’t presume he should get tired quickly.

  48. @ Tenrai – You right with Raikage, Mizukage and Tsunade but in this last battle it was Oonik and Gaara that did most of the fighting lol… and that is where the problem lies

  49. Hello, ive been reading this blog since IRA and now I thought i start leaving some comments here. Sorry in advance for my english.
    Please dont eat me >__>

    I think u really cant compare an Edo Tensei, especially the 1st and the 2nd Hokage, with the real ones in their prime, that would be a kick right into their ….
    Even Kabuto stated that he mastered Edo Tensei to a degree, where he surpassed the 2nd Hokage and Orochimaru, and I dont think that it is just based on the amount of corpses he has collected but the skill he can use them or their skills. So imho it is normal, that a Shinobi like the 3rd Hokage was able to hold his own against these two.

    The Edo’s nowadays are on a whole another level than in the past, even with their mind completly set on “must not think, must destroy” and fighting on their own.

  50. @Gadoneer

    Lol. Two things people seem to say the most when they first comment on the blog: “I’ve been reading for a while…” And “please don’t eat me”.

    Welcome to WRA. I hope to see you joining the discussions more. ^ ^

    *Starts nibbling on his arm* @__@

  51. @The people saying the first and second aren’t so strong, please remember that they were under Orochimaru’s control during the fight with Hiruzen. They didn’t have any control over the choice and intensities of their jutsu. Also, the battle was confined to a rooftop. Who knows what would have happened if they were given free rein like Madara is getting right now. I think Naruto would be on a much different course right now.

  52. i think tsunade has a lot more chakra then most people estimate. like Ten’s been sayin, it had to have taken a lot to sustain all that healing during the pein invasion arc.
    also let’s not forget she is a senju descendant n every person we’ve seen so far that is from that clan has had fairly high chakra reserves as well as being powerful individuals. we haven’t seen her really fight since kabuto, yeah she couldn’t beat him but that was in part due to her blood phobia, after she overcame that she beat the crap out of orochimaru (and yes i realize he couldn’t use his arms)

  53. i dont know why more people aren’t backing up ino for strongest! i mean she did train under a legendary sannin and current hokage and in the narutoverse things like that matter!
    wait what? ohhh tenrai is right legends are just that and stories aren’t 100% locked in no changing it truth. game, set, match
    As far as Tsunade goes, she collected her forehead seal for years before the pain fight, that is explained in the kabuto fight as well, this time she had like a week and a half since she woke up from a comma…. how much is stored?

  54. oh and i realize that example in my last comment is for dramatic effect, i mean come on ino? im surprised she wasnt held up as a meat shield for the important ninjas. lol jkjk for any ino fans out there….. *cricket chirps* …thats what i thought.

  55. *cricket chirps*…
    hahahaaa yeah exactly

  56. Another GREAT Breakdown! Thanks Tenrai! 🙂

    @Eugen: I read your post at the end and so I wan’t to acknowledge it and say you’re right. Zetsu is such a minor character that he isn’t really worth a whole lot of mentioning since we don’t really know a lot about him, but I will point out that I said “he makes trees”. I wish to correct that due to the fact that after further analysis I realized that he makes ROOTs….

    @wra: who thinks Kabuto will get the rinnengan?

  57. @visionary I doubt it. He’s no Uchiha.

  58. @kanton: Neither was Nagato… >_>;

  59. @visionary but he an uzamaki which aparently counts as senju. im going with no

  60. @visionary, well i guess by my logic a byakugan would be able to evolve into a sharingan… because they said the sharingan evolved from the byakugan but that evolves into the rinnagin soooo is hinata gona sport some red eyes at some point cause that would be hotter than forehead veins

  61. @coolbeans: lmao! Yeah red eyes would be HOT! lol But don’t forget Kabuto is the guy who put Oroch’s DNA in his body and thus got all his powers. Whose to say he can’t do the same thing over and over again until he’s the baddest mofo in the planet. (ahem! someone that might require both a senju and uchiha to beat. ahem!) By my account Tobi is SS6 lvl 1. Madera is SS6 lvl 2. and if Kabuto does what Kabuto does best which is steal other people’s powers he could very well become SS6 lvl 3.

  62. Has anyone thought of WHY Hiruzen Sarutobi FEARED the 3rd coffin(Yondaime) from Orochimaru’s Edo Tensei when in fact that the first coffin(Hashirama) is the STRONGEST of them all? There’s still a mystery of why Hashirama vanished(yup because we don’t know how in the world his death happened). Why Kabuto didn’t have the 4th Hokage’s DNA? The question is where does Yondaime’s body went after the Dead Demon sealing? Isn’t it the soul of the caster only to be sealed not the body?


    Yup.. I’m aware of that.. and that’s really the only problem.. maybe in the few chapters we’ll be all enlighten by Kishi as to how Hashirama died or did he really die? There are only two people I know that can control the nine-tails on a loose and we all know that the other one is Hashirama besides Madara. And the signs are not far from the masked man be Hashirama because he can control the nine-tails pretty damn well.. As i have commented before Hashirama can do implantation of sharingan thus giving some uchiha power on top of his senju power.. Hashirama lives got some power from Madara. Hashirama maybe got some beating from Madara despite winning the battle and from severe damage from battle his memory has affected or Madara before dying cast a powerful genjutsu to Hashirama like that of Shisui that would turn to push his(Madara’s) plans using Hashirama’s body.

  63. @pistol. Huge hole in the second half of your theory. If he was Hashirama, why would he have needed to kid/rapenap Yamato to get at the first’s chakra/DNA?

  64. @pisbolman, i thought something similar to that and i cant remember if i posted it but anyways, hashirama was senju (duh) and that gives good chakra reserves. tobi has never used any of the traditional uchia techs. take those two things together and you get a stolen sharingan that acts kind of similar to kakashi’s (both use space time manipulation, but they are the only ones to use it in this kind of fashion) but he has the chakra to spam techs better, as well as better use the rinnagin that he showed up to the war with.

  65. Is their a chapter this week?

  66. @antnasty
    happy reading

  67. @antnasty btw if you were looking for it on manga stream they were forced to shut the manga down along with bleach, one piece and i think a few others

  68. @Eke

    haven’t you forgotten that it was Kabuto how kidnap/rapenap Yamato? Are we reading the same manga? O_o

    It was Kabuto’s idea to strengthen the white zetsus not Tobi..


    Makes sense as Kakashi can’t spam his techs using sharingan that much because he doesn’t have Hashirama’s cell implanted on his body.

  69. @pisbolman, agreed. and only non uchia (as far as we know) have used extensive use of the type of time space jutsu that tobi and kikashi use (not fact checked) but those are 2 non (speculative) uchia that have sharingan and dont use traditional sharingan powers other than like base level, oh i see stuff good n’ such.

  70. @pistol

    Yes, but tobi wouldn’t have needed to grow a culture of hashirama’s cells if he was in fact, hashirama

  71. @coolbeans i was 4 real fml smhis one piece their also?

  72. @eke, ya and if he was hashirama that would be a totally hard lie to pull off o.O … it is at this point i should say i dont think it is the first but i do see alot of things pointing to him soooo make up your own mind. im just saying theres at least some good points in his favor 😉

  73. @antasty ya there was a good bit of grief but hey we all seem to have come to the conclusion that oooooh man onemanga took it down!!! fire to all!!! wait mangastream… less fire. it sucks but its not the first time. the best provider always comes to the top because…. well its better. so lets hope manga reader gets a bit better

  74. @Pisbolman

    The thing is, if Tobi was Hashirama, then why did he give away all the Bijuu when he became Hokage? Wouldn’t that be somewhat counterproductive as far as achieving the Moon Eye plan is concerned?

    Hashirama’s character profile really just doesn’t fit Tobi’s in any way. We have never seen or heard of Hashirama using space-time jutsu, nor have we seen Tobi ever use Mokuton. There’s no reason Hashirama would want to take revenge on Konoha or destroy the village he essentially helped create either. Hashirama fought against Madara and was at odds with him while Tobi seems to have worked with Madara, and the whole turn the world into mindless zombies thing just really doesn’t fit Hashirama’s “Will of Fire” creed which has been passed down Konoha through the generations.

    Of course, there’s always the slim chance that Kishi could turn things on his head if he wanted to, but I just don’t see why he would suddenly make Hashirama an archvillain.

  75. @tenrai, how many times have mangas used the “but what i later realized…” story to use character shock value? again i dont think its him but with this particular theory its easy to play devils advocate because there’s plenty of manga president for that sort of thing. im still saying obitos father for timeline and consistency points

  76. @pisbolman: Tobi is not Hashirama for the same reason he’s not Madara since both are confirmed to be dead via Edo Tensei.
    @coolbeans: Possible since he’s most likely is an Uchiha with whatever the hell Zetsu is.

  77. @Tenrai

    I said from my last two comments that maybe from the fight against Madara he got genjutsu’d like that of Shishui to make revenge on Konoha which is like the one Itachi planned on doing to Sasuke. I see Hashirama the best and fittest villain who should appear than Kabuto and Madara. It’s like movies you know good guys at the first part of the movie then would turn and be a bad guy. Like Coolbeans said the odds of Tobi being Hashirama is small but there are things pointing to him also. I know the Edo Tensei Madara and Hashirama is the big hindrance for this theory but still we don’t know yet what really happened to Hashirama and Madara.

  78. @pistol

    So he “won” the fight, went back to konoha, continued to be hokage, watched the birth of Tsunade, got old, died, came back to life as half man-half zetsu, and now wants to control the world….

    Seems legit

  79. @eke, and was sealed away so its cool sealing means the other stuff doesnt matter if your brought back (time line supports it) btw no one in the manga said he died right? just curious because as long as your taking fan theories like that nothing said he returned after the battle. i still say obitos father though. its just sooo easy to make it hashirama with the facts provided.

  80. So does that mean Madara or Tobirama aren’t dead either since no one said they died right. So Tobi could still be Madara if that’s the case.

  81. “So does that mean Madara or Tobirama aren’t dead either since no one said they died right.”

    We have seen them get revived with Edo Tensei so they’re as dead as a door nail. But Tobi could still be Madara. Madara could have created Tobi from his own cells before he died. With Izanagi, anything is possible.

    That would also explain why the bandaged Tobi/Madara that controlled the 4th Mizukage has the same voice as the masked Tobi/Madara who can drop and replace limbs when he pleases.

  82. @wra: This may be obvious to some but I believe this needs to be addressed. Sarutobi surprised Orochimaru with the Dead Demon Seal for the same reason why Orochimaru tried to summon Minato with Edo Tensei: Orochimaru didn’t know HOW Minato DIED and he NEVER LEARNED about the jutsu Dead Demon Seal.

    Can anyone name a time when Naruto was able to create a Rasengan with just one hand? (extra credit) 🙂

  83. omg guys just watch this!

  84. Great share, Dan!

  85. Naruto is taking over Bleach sort of.

  86. Love what you’ve done with the place.

  87. @Pickles I think they’ve done a great job too and on a side note,Thank you for all the great breakdowns that got me coming here in the first place.

    Since this breakdown was basically “spot on” with how the next chapter turned out, I was wondering if anyone else got the feeling that Sasuke might only think he saw Itachi. As far as I can remember, he has never run into an Edo Tensei before and he knows Itachi is dead, but with him already talking to Itachi because of the eyes, he may think he’s seeing things with the eyes as well.

    To me, the last page was very profound as it really tears away at Sasukes new found composure. That look of shock on his face really makes you wonder if his need for revenge on konoha outweighs his need for closure with Itachi.

  88. @visionary whenever he uses it while in the kyuubi cloak, ie. against both sauske and the ahhh cant think of it, blow stuff up guy. deidra.

  89. @dan that was F***** awesome! that was one of the best fights i’ve seen to date with naruto. If that’s any kinda of foreshadow to what naruto and sasuke will do, their battle will be epic.

    @WRA after seeing the above fight with the first and madara, why is it that the first never sucame to genjutsu. Surly madara had beast genjutsu and he was spamming sharingan left and right, so why did the first not drop from looking at it?

  90. another thing, what do you guys think that scroll is on the first’s back??

  91. @dricedt b/c as Bee stated if you have a tailed beast(the first had a few) you have the perfect defense against a sharingan. To counter genjutsu, you need to either look away, or have somebody else disrupt the flow of the casters chakra in your body. A tailed beast in you does this, making genjutsu not very effective.

  92. @Dan

    Amazing video find! Is there an English Subbed version so we can tell what the narrator is saying? I feel like there is some good info in there..

  93. @Pickles


    *Eats him*

  94. “@WRA after seeing the above fight with the first and madara, why is it that the first never sucame to genjutsu. Surly madara had beast genjutsu and he was spamming sharingan left and right, so why did the first not drop from looking at it?”

    We don’t know. Perhaps the most logical reason is that Madara is unable to use (a powerful) genjutsu on people. Even now, with him fighting the 5 kages he’s not using any genjutsu. But that would be my guess and could easily be proved wrong in a few chapters time.
    It could also be that Hashirama had the capabilities to see through and overcome any genjutsu, even a Mangekyo Sharingan powered genjutsu or even a Tsukuyomi of sorts. Genjutsu is basically mind tricks so someone smart enough can see through them. That’s ‘a bit’ harder with something like Itachi’s Tsukuyomi or Shisui’s Kotoamatsukami but in general the rule applies to all genjutsu.
    Also, I wouldn’t use the clip too much when trying to figure out Madara’s or Hashirama’s powers. The clip is clearly based on the single frame we saw in the manga. The fight around it can be considered filler at best. The actual fight probably went down entirely different. Note the lack of Madara’s Susano’o for starters. I really doubt Madara wouldn’t have used that kind of power in his fight with Hashirama.

    “another thing, what do you guys think that scroll is on the first’s back??”

    It could be just a weapons scroll seeing as he summoned various blades, shurikens and kunais with it.
    It could also be the scroll of seals. The scroll Naruto stole at the beginning of Naruto and used it to learn the kage bunshin. It is said to contain many kinjutsu and belonged to Hashirama.

  95. @mantisguy i was never aware that the first had any of the demons sealed in him. Infact i think the above video is evidence of that. When madara tries to summon the kubi in the manga, he can’t because it’s sealed in naruto. However above he summons it no problem because it was free and walking around. Thats also why the first says to the kubi that he is to dangerous to just let roam and that he needs to be sealed. So with all lthis we can say that the fist probably had some other tech that made madara’s genjutsu useless. He also didnt use sasuno or ameruetsu

  96. To itterate on what Baron said about Madara and genjutsu, the truth is that each Uchiha’s MS seems to differ from the next. The only two Uchiha who we know can use Tsukyomi for certain, are Sasuke and Itachi, and that could be explained by the fact that they are related to one another and thus, it’s reasonable to say that they have genetically similar eyes. The same goes for Amatarasu as well. Madara has yet to use either, and no other Uchiha has been suggested to have used Amatarasu or Tsukyomi other than the two brothers I mentioned above.

    Then we have the likes of Shisui, Kakashi and Tobi, who have all demonstrated their own unique Sharingan techniques.

    Going by this, I think it’s safe to presume that each Uchiha is unique in terms of their eye techniques and not all of them are necessarily good at genjutsu. Sure, Madara was able to control the Kyuubi, but according to Itachi, that seems to be an inherent ability of the Sharingan present in Uchiha who have elevated their eyes to a certain level of power, so that particular factor does not necessarily point to Madara having impressive abilities as far as genjutsu is concerned.

    There’s a chance Madara simply chose to play to his strengths in the battle against Hashirama. It’s no secret that genjutsu can be broken with the right countermeasures, so it’s quite possible that Madara simply knew that Hashirama had enough skill to break his genjutsu attempts, to make them not worth using or wasting energy on.

  97. im going to say that Tobi is sasuke’s dad. If you think about it, it fits. Tobi has always had a fatherly role when concerning sasuke. Itachi never went after tobi while he was still alive. Itachi figured out who tobi was long before his death and worked with him to slay the other uchiha. Though sasuke thought he saw his dad dead, it could have been easy to make a clone that looked dead and fool sasuke at that age. AND the night the kubi attacked kohna, sasuke’s parents were gone. Sasuke’s mom knew when kushina was giving birth, would have told her husband and that night they left to initiate the moons eye plan. Sasuke’s father was a high member in the uchiha clan and would have easily had access to the stone from the S06P. We know that sasuke has a link to the S06P as does madara, which means sasuke and madara would be related though extensivly. We can assume that the father had this connection and thus felt the kinship to rally the clan against the rest of the village like his ancestor madara did. Infact we already know that he was leading the resistance against the village and if he knew he was related to Madara, he might have thought that he would have a good shot at the cue. With enough evidence to at least stand and there might be more that i can’t think of off the top of my head….I”M GOING TO SAY THAT TOBI IS SASUKES FATHER!

  98. @dricedt the problem with that theory is that it implies that Fugaku had Hashiramas cells since we know that tobi has them. plus we know Fugaku is a person whereas tobi is just a shell of a man. So if he really did have Hashiramas cells then he could have just used izanagi when Itachi tried to kill him but if he did then he’d also be the most powerful person in the village and Itachi wouldn’t have stood a chance so i’m still standing by the chance that he is either created by Madara, or is Izuna and was resurrected by Madaras rinnegan.

    as for the Madara vs Hashirama video, that’s from the video game and I don’t think holds too much weight with the actual series since it’s just made by the anime company and not Kishimoto. they added 60+ minutes of ova’s to game but it’s all basically filler.

    Although the one thing in that fight i’d like to point out in that fight is the time reversal Madara is using. I read a theory this weekend that Sasuke might have a similar power with his EMS, because he’s gonna need something to counter Naruto’s speed.

  99. @dricedt…

    The theory is amazing, but there a few holes. Remember that Tobi showed his face to sasuke once. I know he was young when he last saw his father, but I think he would have recognized him. Also, during tobi’s fight with the 4th and he got injured, I think there was some white stuff around his hand. It was almost as if his hand was melting off afte it got cut. I’m not sure though, so you can see for yourself on the link, and the page after:

  100. @Tenrai: Madera used genjutsu to control a jinchuuriki remember?

    I believe if you look at the history of Uchiha fights you’ll see that when they are up against kage level characters they never use genjutsu. There are probably 2 reasons for this. One is Kishi’s choice where he may feel it detracts from the essence of the fight(kind of cheap like poison) and the other is that genjutsu is not a high enough level jutsu. Genjutsu is good enough against lower level shinobi like Kakashi but not against someone like the Raikage. Why? If you are intimate with a character, like we are with Kakashi, then there needs to be more pitfalls to make it more exciting by raising the stakes, but with extremely high level characters, which we aren’t as intimate with, you have unknown outcomes like unexpected jutsu or even death. You could say the ultra high characters help alleviate us from the sense of predictability that can be associated with the regular characters, but the idea is that a kage level character is too disciplined to fall for genjutsu.

    @coolbeans: Awesome thanks! I remembered the battle in the valley of the end when he was battling Sasuke, but I forgot about when he fought Daedera. I will definitely read through that! The reason I brought it up was to point out that when Naruto’s heart was in line with Karuma’s he was able to create a rasengan with just one hand!

  101. Honestly, Tobi cannot be Hashirama because as Katonkage said, Hashirama was revived by edo tensei only a dead person can be revived that way. the 3rd hokage sealed HIS SOUL. Madara was revived by Edo Tensei, so they were both dead. Can’t be sasuke’s father because when Itachi met with Tobi in the forest (discovering Tobi) Tobi had very long hair as to His father having a different hairstyle. and… DO YOU EVEN KNOW OBITO’s father????? We never heard a thing about him or even if he was an actual Uchiha…

  102. that…….is……………… A BRILLIANT THEORY!! it just hit me like a brick now, plus if its sasukes father, now that will add some serious dramatic affect lol, good call dricedt!

    so now sasuke’s father is my second guess for tobis identity but ill say it once more! TOBI IS OBITO, beeeeeelieve it!

    Runs like hell from the hungry-wants-to-eat-obito-theory-fans horde, aaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

  103. @Visionary

    Firstly, it was Tobi who used the sharingan on a Jinchuuriki and the former Mizukage, not Madara. So far as I can recall, I’ve never seen Madara use genjutsu on a Jinchuuriki. The only thing we’ve really seen Madara use genjutsu on was Kurama, and we can’t be sure if it even was a genjutsu in the purest sense of the word, or if it was just his inherent ability to control the Kyuubi everyone mentions Madara had.

    Secondly, referring to Kakashi as a low-level shinobi just because Itachi was able to use Tsukyomi on him is like shooting yourself in the foot, not only because the Kakashi fans on WRA will eat you alive, but also because it is an innacurate statement. In fact, your whole statement about Genjutsu as a whole is innacurate. You say genjutsu only works on low level ninja and isn’t a high enough level technique to use against the likes of the “Raikage”? What about Pein? Three of his bodies were killed thanks to a genjutsu used by Jiraiya. What about Orochimaru? He lost a hand to Itachi because of the strength of Itachi’s genjutsu.

    Need I remind you that Itachi’s strongest weapon that saw the end of Orochimaru and Edo Nagato, was, in fact, a form of genjutsu using the sword of Totsuka? And then there’s the fact that Danzou used genjutsu to fool the entire Kage summit (all kage), only to be killed later by Sasuke thanks to another genjutsu used against him.

    Genjutsu works on the best of them and Kishi has never been shy about using them in even the highest level battles. Victims of Genjutsu include Sasuke, A, Itachi (Shisui’s protect Konoha genjutsu), Naruto, Orochimaru, Pein, Nagato, Konan, Deidara, the third Mizukage, Kakashi, everyone at the Kage summit, etc. Lol.

    Anyway, I think I made my point on that matter. My real point stipulated in my last post, however, is that we cannot presume all Uchiha are good at genjutsu just because they have the Sharingan. Even among Uchiha, some will be better at Ninjutsu, while others are better at Taijutsu or Genjutsu. The same goes for all Shinobi. The only thin you can really say for certain is that what the Sharingan does give all Uchiha is the ability to see through genjutsu.

  104. @Tenrai: First of all, I said LOWER not low. This means Kakashi is LOWER in level than the Raikage. Kakashi is LOWER level BECAUSE, although he is resourceful and knows a lot of jutsu, he is WEAKER in chakra and body compared to a Kage. I just don’t see him protecting a whole village, sorry…

    Second, as far as I recall, Genjutsu refers to lulling your victim into a state of trance by using your eyes, a body part or by summoning something powerful. Susanoo and amaterasu ARE NOT GENJUTSU!!! The sword of Totsuka is not either. You could say that it puts the victim into a infinite dream like state, but the ultimate truth is the victim is SEALED AWAY SOMEWHERE i.e. the victim is GONE! So Totsuka is more of a sealing technique. Once again, sorry…

    What I should have said is OCULAR genjutsu in a battle is like saying one’s WILL is STRONGER than another. A genjutsu that works by just looking at a Sharingan would take away the real meaning of a HIGH LEVEL FIGHT between two TOP LEVEL opponents. I’m not saying it’s impossible. I’m just saying it would ruin the fight. If you remember Jiraiya’s genjutsu on Pain, he performed a SUMMONING to do it, i.e. he relied upon EXTERNAL help. I guess what I’m saying is Ocular Genjutsu is more of a upper mid level jutsu rather than a high or ultra high level jutsu due more to the discipline of the potential victim rather than the ability of the caster.

    In response to the summit: it was a PEACEFUL process – NOT a fight. I also believe Danzo’s genjutsu only worked on the guy moderating, but I would have to fact check for that…

    I also believe IT WAS Madara who Genjutsu-ed the Mizukage(jinchuuriki) due to the LONG HAIR unless you want to base your assumption on the fact that he was wearing a mask then he should be Tobi. A curious fact is that when he first appeared before Kisame it couldn’t have been more than 20 years ago…

  105. about the video i shared there is no need for subtitles because its exactly what tobi said to sasuke in the anime/manga when he told him about madara and hashirama story.
    as for the genjutsu debate you can see this fight is imcomplete as you can see the moment kurama was suppressed you see smoke and then in the morning the outcome,im sure madara used his big jutsu like susanoo and amaterasu and tsukuyomi in this fight but maybe they didnt want to spoil madara abilities to anime viewers and even manga readers because in the manga we only saw the susanoo but not any sign of tsukuyomi and amaterasu,and about genjutsu danzo used it sneakily nobody knews that a sharingan was under that eyepatch and that it used the most powerfull genjutsu ever the kotoamatsukami(which in my opinion is definitly more powerfull than tsukuyomi) and the reason why in major battles sasuke didn’t neutralised the kages with genjutsu is because of 3 reasons:
    1.sasuke fighting style is more about sheer brutal force than genjutsu which you can all see that his mangekyou sharingan techniques are more about powerfull jutsu than genjutsu like his final susanoo throwing amaterasu shurikens and an amaterasu sword while itachi susanoo’s sword of totsuka could seal people in a eternal genjutsu
    2.the kage’s or any powefull ninja might have been fooled by danzo but if they know they fight a sharingan user they will be more careful about prolonged eye contact and might have high abilities with disrupting their flow of chakra to snap out of genjutsu
    3.storywise it would have been stupid to see a supposedly strong character being beaten in such a cheap way before we even seen his abilities
    (of course it happens some times,in naruto case mifune vs hanzo fight,this fight ended so fast and was such a letdown)

  106. @ WRA i have a big post coming that i think cements Sasuke’s father as being Tobi. What else would make a better story than to have the guy Sasuke hated, his true best friend and the only person that loved him. While the person sasuke tried to impress and looked up to, his father, was really the person stabbing you in the back the whole time.

  107. @ WRA
    We know that tobi has the first’s cells. But the question is where he got them from. So far the only person/s that we know had access to the firsts cells were kabuto/ori. We know they were doing dealings with the higher ups in kohana so it’s safe to say that they could have done dealings with the police as well. What better way for ori to do his activities without getting caught than to have the police on his side turning a blind eye. If Fugaku was really planning on taking over the village he would need some sort of boost to feel competent enough to even attempt it. Sure being related to Madara is good, but having the first’s cells makes you even better. If the Real Madara was the originator for combining hirishima’s cells, and if sasuke’s dad was related to madara, it would be a perfect gift to give Fugaku, the head of the police; the perfect gift to give somebody power, somebody who was related to madara. This would also work out for ori because it would act as a test to see if you could really combine the first’s cells into people. We’ve seen evidence of this with Yamato and Danzo. The key/smoking gun to this is Zetsu. Zetsu is plant like, Madara “won” the fight at the valley of the end because he obtained the firsts DNA. Zetsu was somehow created from the first DNA with the sole purpose of being able to incorporate itself/himself into other people to give them powers. If we look at the fight with Kisame and Bee, we see that Zetsu can match his chakra and body to make them IDENTICAL to any person he chooses thus further backing Zetsu being created to be like a stem cell that can incorporate itself and augment the host. Ori found out about madara’s plans back at the valley of the end and conducted his own experiments, either finishing off Zetsu or making a Zetsu like substitute. Ori then implanted Zetsu cells in Danzo and tobi but seeing different effects with each, he continued until he perfected the addition with Yamato. And THAT is why Yamato is so key to Kabuto, because he was the perfect incorporation of Zetsu cells. Something that wasn’t achieved with tobi, Danzo or madara. This makes sense because we can see an evolution taking place as the incorporation is perfected from Danzo to Tobi to Yamato (the youngest) and probably countless people in-between the three.

    So how does any of this relate to what was said in the above posts, well if Sasuke’s dad had the ability to regenerate himself due to the first’s cells. He would feel unbeatable, even by the fourth, no matter how hard you knock him down he can get back up. We however, don’t know how long it takes to re-grow a hand or an arm. However that doesn’t matter, you say you hurt it in the attack from the Kubi, wrap it so it looks like there is still a hand and nobody is the wiser.

    The Kubi mentioned that Sasuke had chakra like madara, and madara was the only one able to control him. We know through sasukes lineage that he is related to madara in some way or another. Therefore, since the father is related to madara and related to sasuke, he would have the ability to control the kubi like tobi did.

    @Tommy/ WRA we have to remember that it was ITACHI (that is key) who said Tobi was a SHELL OF HIS FORMER SELF. Look at this from itachi’s point of view. His father was the head of police, he was the upholder of justice and good and a VERY prominent figure in the village. Itachi was a man who HATED war and only wanted peace. As a child he would have seen his father in a very good light but once he found out the truth about the kubi attack and that his father was behind it, in itachi’s eyes, his father became a shell of his former self. A man who was supposed to be upholding the light but instead the harbinger of darkens.

    Furthermore, as I stated in another post, it would have been a genjutsu that made it seem to sasuke that his father was dead. There would have been no need for izganzi. But then why would itachi create an illusion to fake his farther’s death. Well, killing the uchiha clan was inevitable but beneficial for Fugaku and itachi. Itachi was willing to kill the clan but not sasuke, the dad probably was going to kill sasuke if itachi tried killed him. HOWEVER, Fugaku could have struck a deal that if itachi let him live, his father wouldn’t harm sasuke. This would have worked out well for FU because now he could go on and complete his plans from the shadows, he could control the fourth Mizukage because guess what…he’s dead nobody would be the wiser except for…itachi. So what does itachi do, he joins Akasuki, the same organization that Tobi/his father joined in order to keep watch from the inside and to keep track of his father. We know that itachi frequently visited kohana to say to the elders “dont touch sasuke or i’ll kill you”. By being part of akasuki and being around his father/tobi he would have sent the exact same message while keeping an eagles eye on what tobi was doing.

    However the key behind all of the above, is when itachi and sasuke finish their fight. Tobi was interested in that fight, probably to see which of his sons was stronger BUT more importantly to see if he could NOW reveal himself to sasuke for who he truly was. So what happens, tobi takes sasuke to his lair and attempts to remove his mask, but why? He says that if sasuke would see him he would trust him. Sasuke would trust tobi if he found out tobi was his father. But this was cut short because after only showing a FRACTION of his face, itachi’s booby trap sprung, igniting the only visible part of his face with ameretsu. Sasuke never saw Tobi’s true face, but then did itachi? Itachi is never revealed to have seen tobi’s face, so then how could he have set a booby trap that ONLY ACTIVATES when seeing tobi’s face? The only way would have been if itachi knew what tobi looked like BEFORE. This would have been easily possible if Tobi was itachi’s father. He would have already known what his dad looked like and have set up that trap years before. Furthermore, Tobi goes on to reveal ALOT about itachi, in fact he reveals his whole history that is later confirmed by donzo. Who else in the story knew of itachi’s past and almost all of his inner-workings…..but itachi/sasuke’s father.

    As head of the police and as head of the uchiha, as the mastermind behind the WHOLE coup d’etat and seeing everything that goes on behind the scenes, you order your eldest son, a prodigy to do the dirty work to fulfill your power hungry dreams. Because after you read what was on the stone tablet, after you found the connection that you had with madara and discovered his plans involving the first’s DNA, you Fugaku decided that you could become the sage of the six paths. Years before, you went to orichimaru, whom you knew was administering the first’s cells, to get them implanted in you so that you would become virtually immortal and could regenerate. Because you are the head of the police and Intel you know how to counter any measures that would protect the village, or how to counter protection for any one person and being power hungry you bide your time so that you could start off big. After you found out from your wife when the Host of the ninetails was at her weakest, you bypassed the security measures and extracted the kubi. With this huge boost in power and the firsts cells you thought it would be simple to crush your village, defeat one of the most powerful and fastest ninjas ever alive, leave your clansmen behind and obtain the other tailed beasts. However your plans were set back because of the fourth, you underestimated him but that was no problem because even he didn’t know your true identity. Live or die, not even the fourth could reveal who you were; you could return to the shadows and plot again. Having forsaken your clansmen for your own greed during the kubi attack, making the decision to kill them in the future was no problem. By controlling your eldest son through his love for his younger brother, you planed a second coup, or at least that’s what you told everybody else. But in reality it was a slaughter for your own greed, it was just an escape so that you could really push your plans into full swing, and for that you needed to be “dead” so that nobody could catch on to what you were really up to; save itachi. By making the higher ups of kohana think you were gone and leaving itachi to take the brunt of all your schemes, you pitted your sons against each other; absolving any problems that you might have had. Though itachi was a thorn in your side constantly keeping watch and suppressing you, you knew there was another option. Turning your attention to your other son, you forced him to grow, pruned him and filled his heart with hatred so that he would pluck the thorn from your side and cast it away. Knowing that itachi still loved you, loved his clan and loved his brother you allowed him to AGAIN take the fall but this time in sasuke’s eyes. Having your problem gone and new hope on the horizon you continued to nurture sasuke to grow so that you could control him through the hate you seeded so long ago. With all of this, you set yourself up for a perfect “out of left field” takeover. Though as you stated in chapter 453 there is wrench in you plans you never anticipated…and his name is Uzumaki Naruto.

  108. @Visionary

    I never once mentioned Susanoo or Amatarasu in my comment, so I am not sure where you got that from. Anyway, the term Genjutsu does not relate specifically to just occular techniques. The term genjutsu itself means “illusionary techniques”. These can be performed in a number of ways, from Itachi’s Tsukyomi, to Ma and Pa’s song genjutsu.

    Genjutsu is a technique whereby the user changes the chakra flow to the victim’s brain to cause halucinations, paralization, or to inhibit them in any number of ways. Danzou used Izanagi, which is a form of genjutsu that turns the illusions he creates into reality. The Sword of Totsuka that Itachi uses seals the victim in an eternal genjutsu, as stated clearly in the manga, so it is, in fact, a form of genjutsu as well.

    None of my points were invalid, and your response has not disproven any of them as of yet, save for perhaps the Kage summit one, where it may have been only Mifune that was affected by Danzou’s genjutsu. My point about genjutsu being used in the highest level battles still remains though.

    Remember, Itachi used Tsukyomi against Sasuke in their final battle. Sasuke used Genjutsu against Bee (although it failed), and he also used it to defeat Danzou (he was only able to inflict the final battle-winning blow thanks to a genjutsu). Pain, as I mentioned before, was a victim of Ma and Pa’s song genjutsu which paralyzed three of his bodies long enough for Jiraiya to kill them. Sasuke also had genjutsu used on him in the Kage summit battle by one of the Raikage’s bodyguards, which would have resulted in death or serious injury if it weren’t for Juugo and Suigetsu being there to block the follow-up attack by the Raikage and Darui.

    If these aren’t considered highest level battles, then I don’t know what you see as “high level”, because some of the battles I mentioned involved ninja who are Kage level or above, unless you consider the likes of Itachi, Jiraiya or Pain to be bellow Kage level.

    To answer your other point about who controlled the Mizukage, you forget that when Tobi revealed his face to Kizame just after the battle between Sasuke and Itachi, Kizame immediately reckognized him as the same person who had controlled the Third Mizukage and even referred to him as Madara. That was clearly Tobi posing as Madara, if we go by that piece of evidence. Also, so far as I know, the Third Mizukage was the current Mizukage’s predecessor, so it may not have been that long ago that Tobi had her under control. A few years at the most is a possibility.

  109. @Tenrai will you read my theory :/ please! I know it’s long but i put a lot of time writing it 😀

  110. @dricedt, I read that big wall of text you just posted but you have to be objective when you look at things like this and not speculate too much.
    There are 2 main reasons Tobi isn’t Fugaku;
    1. when Tobi revealed his face to Sasuke only we, the readers didn’t see his full face, because we were sent to Sasuke’s reaction, but I can bet you anything Sasuke saw more then half of Tobis face. And I know he would have had a hell of a long talk with Tobi if he were Fugaku.
    2. Itachi would have told Sasuke the truth about Tobi if it were there father because he would have wanted Sasuke to know every bit of the truth about what happened.

    You pointed out a lot of thing in your post but as I said more then 80% is just speculation. Also, do you think Fugaku would have been wondering around with no scratches and scars all of Itachi’s and Sasukes youthful years when he was covered in bandages back when he met Kisame and was controlling Yagura and was left without a arm and had Zetsu material gushing from his arm that Minato tore off.

    Sure he and his wife were gone while the Konoha assault by the Kyubi was ongoing but that doesn’t mean he was behind it.

    As another fact, you can check out both fugaku and Tobi’s features. Where’s Fugaku’s hair is long and straight, just like Itachi’s, Tobi’s hair is like Naruto or Obito or Tobirama or Hiruzen, spiky and short.

    And if Tobi was the one Kisame met after he killed Suikazan, then we know how that Tobi’s hair looks just like Madara’s when it’s long.

    No offence, but we have to find facts and speculate from stuff we can be 85-100% sure of from the manga.

    All in all I for one think Tobi is either Obito (because of the bandages he showed, especially in the last manga episode that were on the whole right side of his body, the part that was under the boulder), or a powerful descendent like Hashirama and Mito’s child (Tsunade’s Father), Hiruzen’s other Son (Konohamaru’s father, notice the similar hair) or a Zetsu like hybrid between a Madara clone and zetsu experiments.

    Those are my top 3 predictions for Tobi’s ID because there loos ends easily included in the story, with Obito being the most easy to include and Tsunade’s Father a close second.

  111. Obito cannot be Tobi because as said before there is the age gap… Kakashi was young and about 12 during the attack of the kyuubi, Tobi was a GROWN MAN. the way he talked to Minato wasn’t how a former student would. “I see why you’re the 4th hokage” or he said something about his flash step. His powers could not grow that quick enough to control the tailed beast or use the warp jutsu, or learn how to fight with the chains so quickly. Even though the Madara theory is now invalid it still sounds more reasonable than Tobi being Obito. We seen Tobi’s top half of his face. His head is intact, and he had two sharingan eyes. Tobi basically admitted he wasn’t Madara by saying it doesn’t matter who he is anymore…

    He can’t be Fugaku because their hair color is different… Fugaku’s hair is brown and Tobi’s hair is black. You’re telling me he keeps changing his hair color? Just physical features kill that theory. It would break the whole story for that anyhow, because Itachi was a peaceful person and only wanted peace. He wouldn’t help his father. The 3rd hokage administered the wipe out of the Uchiha clan and Danzou confirmed it by saying “I wouldn’t expect Itachi to tell”. Itachi joined akatsuki to keep a close eye, nothing to do with Fugaku.

    If he was Hashirama, wouldn’t he use that identity rather than Madara? Hashirama was more feared than Madara seeing as how people would put him on the same level as the SO6P. I’m sure he would’ve used wood element jutsu as well. Hashirama had a more democratic mindset as to why he spread the bijuu about. The moon’s eye plan is more of a monarchy or just complete control and no power to the people. ALSO, Hashirama was sealed in the death God, same with Tobirama, Minato…

    Obito’s father???… stop it right now…

    You’re naming characters that would not make an impact on the story. Why exactly did Tobi say the rinnegan was his? We all seen Nagato awaken the rinnegan through adreneline… Why would Tobi want the body of the Juubi? Why not just keep the bijuu??? They seem to be more of a threat in seperate bodies

  112. @dricedt wow, that’s an amazing side story and if this was a seinen manga i’d have a better time believing it. but like Eugen said, it’s a lot of speculation and there is some holes in the reasoning for it.

    Like for instance about Fugaku threatening Itachi that if Itachi tried kill Fugaku then Fugaku would kill Sasuke. that can’t really be taken as a threat since how can a dead guy kill someone that isn’t even present at the time(that’s a hollow threat in my opinion).Nevertheless,I applaud your imagination.

    Although now I find it funny because for months we have been speculating as to who Tobi really is, and now that Naruto is so close to taking that mask off. i’m more interested in what’s about to happen between Sasuke and Itachi, and i’m not even a Sasuke fan 😛

  113. Hey guys, sorry, but it seems I’m not having a good week, so I won’t have a breakdown out for the latest chapter. I’ll have to do a double breakdown once the new chapter is out. I hope that’s alright.


    I’ll take a look at your theory soon, I just need to get my head in a place where it can work a bit. I’ll nominate your post for longest comment in the meantime. It’s almost as long as the first book in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. X__x

  114. Also, on another note, I would like to ask our readers to please support our other authors who have worked hard on the other sections of this blog.

    The One Piece manga breakdown section has a new author, Coobleans (whom many of you know already), who is trying to resurrect the series on this blog for many of the readers who followed it before and he would like some feedback so he knows where to take the series.

    The Fairy Tail manga section is currently being covered by Dragon, who is also a relatively new author on the blog, but who has dedicated his own free personal time to bringing out breakdowns for any would-be Fairy Tail fans out there.

    And then there’s the Bleach manga being covered by Pein0Avenue, who has been putting a lot of effort into this blog for quite a while now and who has helped me a great deal with keeping things going.

    Please don’t neglect the hard work these writers put into this blog and please show your support for them. I know there’s a lot of silent readers out their who only view the posts or breakdowns, but never give feedback, but remember, these guys write for nothing in return, and they do all that work for no rewards other than the feedback they get from everyone who reads their work, which at the moment, is very little for some of the sections I mentioned above. It can be discouraging for some.

    Anyway, sorry if I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I felt that needed to be said.

  115. @greyfox2012: I may not be remembering this correctly. But didn’t we all see Kakashi and Guy all grown up during the Kyuubi attack? Maybe it was only in the animated series? My point is, there is no age gap if I saw what I saw. I’ll have to go see it again unless someone can back me up on this.

    That said: I think Obito is still Tobi. Has anyone discussed the possibility of Obito getting Madara’s eyes? If, say, Pain was given his eyes for safe keeping – then it might stand to reason that Obito… wait a second…

    So Kakashi has one of Obito’s eyes and because he can’t use it to the fullest extent, he can only suck things into another dimension. But Tobi can suck things in and go to that dimension himself. Maybe I’m late to the party on that one, but that particular power seems relevant.

    Also, what if Obito realized he had that power to go into ghost form, but only after the rock had crushed him. Then he could have survived that encounter. And considering all that happened, he’d be pissed.

    Anyway, the first point I was trying to make was that there is also a possibility that Obito had Madara’s eyes. That could be the reason for all the references to Madara, and even though it is far fetched – Madara still having his eyes for his zombie form still adds up because Itachi had his.

  116. Gavin, true enough, but the only funky thing about Tobi is that he never used Mangekyo or EMS, the extent of his sharingan was at the level Sasuke had it when he fought with Itachi, the 3 tomoe at full throttle.

    It’s like Vegeta’s and Trunk’s SSJ style when they fought Cell, it was the highest they could go before achieving SSJ 2, in my mind that’s what Tobi has. The only thing is, WHY, being a person of so much skill and intellect, why only use a normal sharingan, the only explanation I can think of is that he’s not a Uchiha and he can only evolve as far as the MS, and knowing the draw back of the blindness he decided not to use it seeing as you can only transplant a very similar pair of eyes from sibling to sibling, like Madara and Izuna and Saskue with Itachi, thus far the only 2 cases of EMS we know about. Tobi only risked his eyes when he was in the most dangerous situation of his life, the fight with Konan, and lost his sight in the left eye from using Izanagi.

    As far as the Obito scenario, that was a great thing you just pointed out Gavin: Obito, accidentally, triggering the ghost jutsu ( he might have learned while he rescued Kakashi from the Rock nin, the same jutsu he used) and thus him being surprised and saying he didn’t feel his right side anymore. Maybe he was hurt but the extent of the injuries might not have been fatal only due to this last second reaction he might have had.

    Great stuff you just stumbled upon here, and one I’m really making a solid argument of in future debates about Tobi, seeing I wasn’t a supporter of the Tobi/Obito theory until recent.

    WRA please pitch in if you feel this scenario is going somewhere.


    Spoilers Are Out

  118. well it’s weird that Madara and Tobi don’t share any abilities but I still find it hard to connect Madara to Obito. Considering that Tsunade is old enough to be his parent and Madara is around the age of her grandfather, his original body should have been dead before Obito was born and Tobi would of had to be around for part of Madaras life to know as much as he does.Plus the fact that Nagato was given Madaras rinnegan before Jaraiya was Minatos teacher is another reason.

    As for the ghost jutsu thing……it’s a real stretch to think that anyone could create a jutsu while half of the body has been crushed, like forget about weaving hands signs and even if he learned that technique while being crushed, his bodies still gonna suffer that damage when the technique isn’t active(as seen in the masked man vs minato fight)

    The hardest thing to disprove is that damned sharingan, it really is the only thing that connects Obito to Tobi and they aren’t even the same lol. It would be much easier to find out if they’d actually show us what Tobis MS looks like because it should be similar to Kakashis but Kishi really wants his fans to fight with each other over who/what he is.

  119. @tommy3h: You’ve got a point there. I think I agree that it is a stretch. But I think when it comes to trying to figure out Tobi’s character, people have been holding onto any little tiny bits of info that they can get. I’m not saying that he invented the jutsu though, um… It would be more like Sauske evolving another level of sharingan. Obito could have been stimulated by the rocks crushing him and went all ghost-like after the big rock cave-in.

    I’m not saying this isn’t a stretch. But, if Obito did survive that rock avalanche, then it just make sense that the ghost jutsu saved him.

  120. @Eugen: Hmm… That is really weird. Could it be that Obito had his eyes transplanted later on by someone else? That might explain him wearing the goggles for a while. Anyway, you’re right – he seems like he hasn’t used very much of the potential power of the sharingan. That might be one of the reasons that he’s trying to evolve Sasuke’s eyes.

  121. andddddddd it’s out

  122. I already read the chapter two times now just so that I can get the feel of what Mangareader normally F***up. (Damn I miss Mangastream and Onemanga). The chapter was interesting and I am happy that Sasuke will continue to speak with itachi a bit more and probably get a little more enlighten. As for Hashirama, I saw that people already knew about his healing ability, did I miss the chapter when that was stated the first time because only now do I see it in black on white for the first time.

    This actually makes me think Minato was part Senjuu also, Had the FTG like Tobirama, and now Naruto has this ability to make trees grow and affect the zetsus in that way while in Chakra Bijuu Mode.
    Also Naruto already had the Uzumaki blood flowing through him but maybe the Namikaze were a Senjuu+other Konoha clan descendants.

    Even Jiraiya showed signs of powerful lineage, that compared in looks with Tobirama and had a chakra reserve higher than anyone until Naruto became a grown up, the likes of with Itachi and Kisame would not want to mess around with. Hell the J-Man probably could have taken Pain out if he had all the intel from the start, and I say that with every bit of confidence.

    Anyway there’s a thing that bugs me a lot, the Hidden Leaf was founded by Sejuu and Uchiha, both top clans with only the Uzumaki and Hyuuga to compete “probably”, but now in the Hidden Leaf, there’s no Uchiha and no Senjuu left, sure the Uchiha were slaughtered but the Senjuu seem to have gone extinct after Tsunade and no later references were made about them, except one very important fact Tobi said is that he can see Hashirama in Naruto:

    Now you can look at this from two angles;
    1. Either Naruto is a descendant of Hashirama through Minato.
    2. It was a assimilation due to the fact that both Hashirama and Naruto share the same principles.

  123. smh… even if Obito could go all ghost like, the damage had already been done to him. Tobi’s character doesn’t match Obito, I’m sure Madara wouldn’t partner up with a child… Also, when Tobi was confronted by Kakashi and such he said “I’ll play with you kids later” i’m pretty sure if Tobi had any reference to Kakashi, there would’ve been a slight clue. Obito would’ve had some familiarity with Kakashi if he knew him personally. Why would Obito be mad at Konoha? He saved Kakashi ON HIS OWN WILL. Why would someone become bitter because of something they did? It isn’t like Kakashi and Rin just left him in a collapsing cave while he was calling for their help. He jumped in the way of the rock pushing Kakashi out of the way. Obito is NOTHING but a support character to Kakashi. Kishimoto was nice enough to show you how Kakashi got the rinnegan eye, nothing more. There is nothing more to the story of Obito, and yet they have the stupid theory of Tobi being Obito? BECAUSE OF THE HAIR? NOTHING else adds up to him being Tobi besides the freaking hair. His personality doesn’t add up. His entire half of the body was F***** up by the rocks, EVEN IF HE COULD GO GHOST, the damage was done already, and don’t say he probably did it without realizing while under the rock until later because he was bleeding his a** off on his deathbed. We even seen the entire top half of the face, doesn’t look reconstructed to me. He isn’t Obito, he isn’t Tobirama because Tobirama would’ve known about Minato’s ability, and simply because Tobirama already appeared from the edo tensei, his death is confirmed. Hashirama’s death CONFIRMED, even if so, WHY would Madara partner up with a clan he dislikes? This latest chapter even shows his hatred for the Senjuu… so Hashirama cannot be Tobi. Of course he isn’t sasuke’s father, the hair says it all and by what Itachi said disproves him being his father. The izuna theory seems improbable because alot of these characters are just minor characters from the past to explain events… His death was already confirmed when they shown his funeral and Tobi stating Izuna died in battle, but iit wouldn’t be the first time he lied…

    Now I think he is the juubi… why?
    1. We don’t know what the Juubi can really do, afterall the Juubi’s eyes were that of the rinnegan/sharingan
    2. The sage probably obtained the rinnegan powers from the Juubi
    3. Tobi made claims to the rinnegan even though Nagato awakened it from pure adreneline
    4. Tobi’s body is fake
    5. He said he is a shell of his former self
    6. He wants the Juubi’s body, even though he would be better off with different entities of power at will (Such as the 6paths of pein is more dangerous than just one)
    7. Madara and Tobi probably made a pact that madara would be Tobi’s jinchurriki if he releases him from the moon.
    8. Tobi probably had other plans when Madara died, afterall he does want to synch Sasuke with Gedo Mazo for some reason.

    Now at the same time, maybe the Kyuubi plays a big role in this plot. Madara obtained the rinnegan after controlling the kyuubi. Naruto seems to have the body of the sage after syncing with the Kyuubi… possibilities…

  124. Isn’t Obito lying in a grave in Konoha? The same grave that Kakashi goes to mourn every now and then.

    The thing that makes me curious though is Tobi’s eye techniques. They seem to be the reverse of Kakashi’s. We have all seen that a sharingan user can have different powers in each eye. For instance, shishui’s ultimate genjutsu resides in his left(?) eye, and amaterasu and tsukuyomi reside in different eyes. I’m wondering if somehow there was some sort of grave-robbing where someone stole obito’s other eye, and reconstructed it. We know orochimaru is a mad genius, and tobi seems to have an obsession with eyes as well. There are just so many things going on.

    Kishi sure knows how to tease people

  125. I do miss that mangastreams version had a proofreader but mangazone is still way quicker than SJA.

    Minatos lineage is something that has bugged me for a while now too because we have never heard of a 2nd Namikaze. If we go by the most popular trend in the series and go by hair, then the only other blondes are Tsunade, Samui, C and possibly Yugito(her hair was a little darker though) the Yamanakas, A , Bee and Darui have more of a whitish tinge to their hair so I think they can be ruled out.

    I always though Naruto was related to the Senjuu because of Kushina but I was going over facts while writing a theory here months ago and found out that Mito wasn’t her grandmother so that shot that theory down before I could even post it *facepalm* (it was a big one too)
    *denies everyone of a that what she said joke*
    Now we just have to find a way to connect Minato to Tsunade because it’s much easier than any of the kumo shinobi but still harder than a diamond in an snow storm.
    *denies another one* XD
    but considering the only sibling we know she had died as a child leaves me as clueless as these blondes are supposed to be. So now that you’ve realized there is nothing new in this post, I hope it at least sparks some ideas with the rest of you.

    About the Izuna theory, most of them were tossed out before we found out that Madara had a rinnegan so he could have used that samsara of heavenly life jutsu to revive Izuna. but since Izuna wouldn’t have EMS or hashirama’s cells, couldn’t activate the rinnegan on his own, so he needed to find someone with senjuu DNA. it still doesn’t explain the zetsu material but it has some credibility as far as theories go.

    P.S. did anyone else think it’s weird that Tsunade got her mark back even though she used it just to show up to the fight with Madara?

  126. @eke2k6

    It’s not a grave, it’s a monument stone or something to honor those that died in the war

  127. Any one else anticipating an Itachi vs Madara showdown?

    I personally am wondering how Yata’s Mirror and The Sword of Totsuka is going to stand up to the might of Uchiha Madara.

  128. “This actually makes me think Minato was part Senjuu also, Had the FTG like Tobirama, and now Naruto has this ability to make trees grow and affect the zetsus in that way while in Chakra Bijuu Mode.”

    Tobirama didn’t know FTG. Tobirama knew an unknown space time jutsu.

    As for Naruto’s ability to make trees grow. It has already been explained that it’s a side effect of the life giving chakra that Naruto took from Kurama. Along with the ability to sense malice.
    It’s therefor a heritage from the Sage of the 6 Paths (or the Juubi). Who fathered both the Senju and Uchiha bloodline. Therefor it makes perfect sense Naruto is now using chakra the senju and Uchiha used as well.

    Minato could be born from a Senju bloodline branch I suppose but if he was from the Senju clan his name would have been Senju Minato. I don’t see any reason why Minato would have to change his clan name.

    Don’t forget we’ve seen plenty of powerful ninja that had no relation to the senju whatsoever so Minato could very well be, and I think that’s most likely the case, not related to the senju.

  129. @ Michael Crume,

    I haven’t seen anything from Madara that could defend him against the sword of Totsuka. So if Itachi does face Madara I don’t see any other outcome than Madara being sealed for an etirnity.

  130. @redbaron,

    Apart from the forest that he can use to push susanoo away?

  131. @Redbaron

    Just because you don’t have the last name “senju” doesn’t mean you aren’t senju. Naruto’s last name is Uzumaki but Minato is still his father.

  132. @Tenrai: Hey man it seems the point of what I was saying is that a genjutsu by Sharingan against a Kage level opponent is very unlikely due to the fact that it’s too unbalanced of a jutsu. A high level opponent just won’t fall for such a jutsu. From what I see we are both right about the sword of Totsuka. It SEALS a person for, as far as we can tell, for eternity in a state of GENJUTSU, but lets be clear it has nothing to do with his Sharingan except that it manifests in his Susanoo for an unknown reason i.e. we don’t know how he got it and in what other ways it can be used. It could be sharingan independent. I’m hoping its bonded to his soul and that he can choose who to pass it on to…

    @wra: I’m gonna have to go with a weird theory on what Tobi is. I can’t help but notice that there is a problem with the tobi with long hair and tobi with short hair. My theory kinda goes with the saying, ‘The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he does not exist.’ And, so, to that, I present my theory that when Madera made a deal with Zetsu, he got more than he bargained for. In other words, when he bonded with Zetsu, he was overtaken. I think his physical make up is somewhat similar to the way white Zetsu bonds with dark Zetsu. Not quite the half and half cookie, but enough that he would need to wear a mask. How else can you explain such complicity when Tobi orders dark Zetsu around? “As you wish.” -Zetsu

    You may ask about Tobi’s ability to use his jutsu over and over again. Zetsu has the power of Senju coursing through him giving him limited spamming capabilities (time gap). As far as I can tell, Tobi’s Sharingan is the same level as Kakashi’s in terms of ability (except he can spam decently). No Ameterasu, no Susanoo, no Tsukiyomi. So why does Tobi have everyone do the work for him? Tobi is weak in body and chakra – very different from the real Madera. Usually when somebody is impure in Uchiha/Senju blood the manga points out their limits in terms of spamming their jutsu. Just in case I’m still unclear, I will remind you that Tobi said he has the power of Senju which is from Zetsu, who because he is not a Uchiha, has mediocre ability to spam his Sharingan. Remember that Karen noticed and planned Tobi’s defeat by calculating the time he could ‘hold’ his jutsu. If he could use Susanoo, why would he use Izanagi and waste a perfectly good Sharingan?

    Does anyone else sense that Sasuke may be on the road to being a good guy? or am I seeing things?

  133. “Apart from the forest that he can use to push susanoo away?”

    Can he?

    Remember how easily Susano’o cut through Orochimaru’s Yamata no Jutsu?

    “Just because you don’t have the last name “senju” doesn’t mean you aren’t senju. Naruto’s last name is Uzumaki but Minato is still his father.”

    Yes it does. Naruto was given his mothers name so people wouldn’t know he was Minato’s son.

    There’s a difference between being a Senju and being related to the Senju btw. Someone who’s only 1/16th Senju isn’t a Senju.

  134. @ visionary,

    If Zetsu took over Madara/Tobi, how come Zetsu is the one following orders in stead of giving them. That doesn’t make much sense.

    As for the mask, I believe that Tobi used the single hole mask to keep his left sharingan unused. Much like Kakashi keeps his sharingan covered up so it doesn’t use up chakra. For Tobi I don’t think it was a matter of conserving chakra. I believe he kept it covered up for the same reason Danzo kept the sharingans on his arms sealed. To keep his Izanagi at the maximum potential. We all know how risky it can be when the user is counting on Izanagi to continue to work. Just ask Danzo.

    “I will remind you that Tobi said he has the power of Senju which is from Zetsu”

    No, Tobi said he gained the power of the Senju from the first Hokage.

    “Remember that Karen noticed and planned Tobi’s defeat by calculating the time he could ‘hold’ his jutsu.”

    I’m guessing you mean Konan here.

    “If he could use Susanoo, why would he use Izanagi and waste a perfectly good Sharingan?”

    You’re right, he can’t use Susano’o. Because he doesn’t have the Mangekyo. As for him wasting a perfectly good sharingan. I wouldn’t worry too much. Did you see his collection? It’ll be a long time before Tobi runs out of sharingans.

    “Does anyone else sense that Sasuke may be on the road to being a good guy? or am I seeing things?”

    I think Sasuke will prevent Itachi from stopping Edo Tensei. The battle has been going in Naruto and co’s favor for too long. Sasuke might retrieve his marbles some day but I don’t think that day has come yet.

  135. @redbaron

    Those were a few snakes. What I’m talking about is something on the scale of a whole forest:

  136. @ Red, Might I point out that, in regard to Tobirama space time ninjutsu, he had a unnamed jutsu but when Minato stated “Tobi’s jutsu is superior to his and Tobirama’s own styles” you can pretty much fill in the holes of that unknown fact without much debate.

    That makes it even more interesting because Minato had to learn the FTG style from someone or somewhere and seeing as it was his special move I gather he either got a scroll form Hiruzen that belonged to Tobirama or Hiruzen himself pointed out the steps he needed to take in order for him to achieve this skill.

    Minato never met Tobirama because he was probably gone way before Jiraiya was even born, so why mention a jutsu nobody else used in the Hidden leaf unless you learned that skill indirectly from the only man who did know it.

    Speculation is taking the best of me here but it’s logic that shows us Minato was seen as a shinobi capable of learning this jutsu and it was probably pointed out by Hiruzen or Jiraiya, the same way Kakashi trained Sasuke to use fast taijutsu and Chidori. A shinobi can’t make jutsus on there own unless there Uchiha or have the rinnegan, they can only learn from former users.

    Tobirama was a pioneer in this department, an that’s why he’s one of my favorite characters, he made jutsus like the “UNKNOWN” space time ninjutsu he made Edo Tensei and he was adapt at using water style in the same brute matter Hashirama could use mokuton.

    As for Tobi’s eye hole maybe you got that backwords, maybe because he’s not a Uchiha, but still has a lot of chakra in his own right, he keeps the mask over the unused eye just like Kakashi so as not to use extra chakra.
    We all know that if you’re not uchiha the Sharingan never turns off. Tobi’s right eye has always been running in Sharingan mode from the start. Even Itachi, who was seen 90% of the time with it active, had times he kept it turned off. Now that’s why I’ve always thought Tobi wasn’t Madara because he’s not Uchiha and the eyes he has are implanted. Now the only ones who are capable of sustaining this eyes are people who have large reserves of chakra or senjuu/uzumaki blood. Tobi already stated that Zetsu is a creation of the harvested Hashirama cells and seeing as he uses the flower zetsu thing in his hideout to restore his lost limbs I guess he has the same cells running through his body. Also, only a Sharingan+Senjuu blood can use Izanagi =>Danzou & Tobi.

    Also Baron, you said that a 1/16-Senjuu is not a Senjuu, then how can you explain Nagato’s perfect Rinnegan. He wa said to be Uzumaki but no one said both his parents were Uzumaki or Uzumaki descendants, yet he was the closest thing to the Sage of six paths.
    i know Tobi said that he gave Nagato those eyes but from what I can figure out that was only a situation where he set things in motion in order for Nagato to activate the Rinnegan the same way Sasuke did it the first time after Itachi killed off the Uchiha, through Rage.

    That of course is only speculations, but seeing as Nagato never pointed out ever meeting Tobi before Akatsuki I doubt it was a transplant while Nagato was young or something like that.

    So a 1/? part Senju or uzumaki or Uchiha or Hyuuga dose mean you can be a true descendant of that blood line if the conditions are just right.

    More to come later.

  137. @Eugen

    Good to know that there are someone like you that consider Tobi is not an Uchiha too. Been pointing that ages but the only question is who is the fittest of good shinobis out there to be him. I still still go with my theory that Tobi is Hashirama even though the only problem that makes it not so believable is that edo tensei of Orochimaru but I still think that the fittest of them all is Hashirama. Badly injured from their fight with Madara, Hashirama survived and got sharingan implanted on him. As to Madara got some of Hashirama’s power too.

    On the sidenote, I wonder where Minato’s body went after the sealing of Kyuubi as well as Kushina. Isn’t it that only the soul of the caster will be sealed away not the whole body?

  138. @redbaron: The right half of Dark Zetsu is the one we see in the series who talks to White Zetsu, but where is the other half?. The other half, the left half, is in Tobi. So he’s really giving orders to himself. The power of Hashirama(Senju) is, albeit not as powerful, but it’s in Zetsu. Remember when he fought Naruto? He can make ROOTs… Konan is the name I meant btw, whoops! Thanks!

    @pisbolman: The soul or soul energy is needed to bring someone back and Minato’s is sealed up, but Kushina’s isn’t lol, but I doubt that would happen!

    @Eugen: Heavy use of the Rinnengan by Nagato brought him severe strain but perhaps transplanting them gives the new owner a type of Eternal Rinnengan? Does the Rinnengan require both Uchiha and Senju? And if so, how did Nagato have Uchiha in him(I just thought of a horrible joke :/)? Maybe Tobi transplanted Sharingan eyes into him?

  139. @ eugen i dont see how u think its impossible for minato to have come up with the ftg on his own….he created the rasengan remember? another sick justu created by him isn’t hard to believe at all.

    @visionary we dont know if nagato actually awakened his own rinnegan or if tobi gave it to him so its impossible to tell what is required..

  140. @Pisbolman: I’m pretty sure they were buried. It’s impossible for him to be Hashirama as much as it’s still a chance he could be a cheap imitation of Onslaught.

  141. @Eugen

    I agree with Mordi here. Minato was considered a genius among shinobi. Even Jiraiya stated that a genius like him only comes around once in a lifetime, so I think that in itself speaks highly of Minato’s skills. We can’t presume that the only way Minato could have learned the Hiraishin is from someone else or from a scroll, because, if you ask me, he had more than enough talent to create the jutsu himself, purely from his own knowledge learned over time.

    If someone like Tobirama can come up with a jutsu like Edo Tensei, then why can’t someone like Minato come up with the Hiraishin? The technique mostly involves seals and Minato learned a lot about seals from studying the Uzumaki style of sealing techniques with help from Kushina. He had all the knowledge he needed, going by that.


    According to information suggested by Kabuto, and from evidence looking at Madara as he is now, you require the Yin powers of the Uchiha and the Yang powers of the Senju combined to create the Rinnegan. It makes sense, seeing as how the Sage of the Six paths split his power between his two sons, and the decedents of those sons are apparently the Uchiha and the Senju. This means that it is also only natural that reuniting those two halves (as seen with Madara) would make it possible to acquire the Rinnegan again.

    In Nagato’s case, we already know he is an Uzumaki and we know that the Uzumaki are related by blood to the Senju, which means they are also decedents of the Sage’s youngest son and it stands to reason that they also inherited his Yang power. This means that all Nagato would have needed to awaken the Rinnegan, was the Yin power of the Uchiha (seeing as he already had the other half).

    Tobi might have transplanted normal Sharingan eyes into Nagato (as you suggested), and then Nagato awakened the Rinnegan from there with the combination if his Uzumaki genetics and those of an Uchiha’s eyes. Tobi had more than enough spare sharingan to go around, so it’s definitely plausible. The other possibility (and the more likely answer) is that Tobi took Madara’s eyes when Madara died (we know he must have died at one point and we know he awakened the Rinnegan just before that happened) and then transplanted them into Nagato in order to use him as a scapegoat to lead Akatsuki while he (Tobi) hid in the shadows and manipulated things from behind the scenes. I say this possibility is more likely, because Tobi says that Nagato’s eyes were originally his, and at the time, he was referring to himself as Madara.

  142. Ten, as true as the Minato part might be I already said most of what I said is speculation and what you pointed out is another great theory to go along with the countless other we discuss here.

    As for Nagato, the Sharingan theory is the best one yet, great job Visionary, but there’s a hole in the Madara rinnegan theory and that is the fact that Madara said, ” So that kid Nagato finally grew up” or something like that, implying he already knew of Nagato but the question now is:

    Did Tobi and Madara decide to implant the Sharingan in a very young Nagato and planned on his eyes activating in rage.
    And he second one was a huge gamble for Madara, to give up his own eyes for a kid who might not have followed the path they set in front of him.

    No from my stand point Madara was a arrogant and power hungry dude who’s life long goal was to rule the world. Now why would he give up the eyes that could save his life with the Rinne Resurrection jutsu and probably made him immortal, and just give that all up for a kid that might not have even ended up a shinobi.

    I am very curious how this all happened because no only Tobi can give the answers. This kid lost his parents, wondered the pain filled lands of amegakure in search for food and was found by Konan ringing deaths doorbell. Now if I were Tobi and especially Madara, I would have protected that investment with my life and would have trained that kid myself thus excluding the off chance he might turn on me.

  143. Ok, I know what Tobi is.
    When Madara dies, his companion Mr.X has the ability to “fuse” his half with half of Madaras body, to obtain his power, or to fulfill a goal or whatever.
    But Madaras body is so strong it takes over the original personality , thus changing the parts involved.
    The part that is fused with Madara is a new entity, a former shelf of himself, and has troubles distinghising between his past personalities, thats why he refers himself as Madara. This new personality has a “new vision” , thats why Madara, who is recently awaken, thinks is strange the things that have happened. He´ll be called a new name, Tobi.
    The other Mr.X part, has lost his half, has no real purpose in life, he is also a shadow ( thats why he is black) ,so now has to obey to someone that is himself, but isnt at the shame time, theres come the total devotion and knowledge of the plan. He´ll be called a new name, Zetsu.
    The white zetsu is formed with the new power acquired by Tobi (Ying+Yang in Madara body) to complete “his” other part.

  144. My post answers Eugens question.
    Something happened after Madara and Mr.X gave the eyes to Nagato that made Mr.X (now called Tobi) to change plans.

  145. Two of the biggest questions are: One, how did Hashirama die? Two, how come all these villains have his DNA?

  146. @wra: Yeah it seems that Madera’s death has something to do with the Rinnengan…

    Perhaps Madera passed on his ocular powers to Nagato similar to how Itachi passed on his to Sasuke? Perhaps knowing that the technique will kill him, he made a deal with Zetsu to resurrect Madera using the Rinne Tensei no Jutsu (Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique)? In order to do that, Zetsu would need Madera’s powers to properly complete the job. The problem with the eye of the moon plan(Tsuki no Me Keikaku) is that the one who would benefit the most of all this is Zetsu. He could feed on everyone while they’re being mezzed.

  147. This might also explain why Tobi has no EMS…

  148. Nice theories… however, how exactly does Tobi transplant the eyes in the young Nagato?… as a baby, to take his eyes out the baby would immediately die. Pain’s threshold is small when a baby. I’m sure Nagato would of known the eyes were transplant, but they were activated upon rage. Itachi didn’t give Sasuke the mangekyu sharingan, Sasuke awakened the eyes… Itachi only set an amaterasu trigger in his eyes to activate when met with Tobi’s sharingan(That is what happened). Itachi didn’t transfer his eyes, that is impossible, you would have to transplant the eye surgically. There are certain rules Kishimoto is bound by in his narutoverse whether you believe it or not, otherwise his story would just fall through the cracks. I have already stated about Tobi being the Juubi and gave my reasons. The only way you can claim the rinnegan that Nagato awakened, is if it was your very own original power, and I know for a fact, the rinnegan’s power is the Juubis. The Sage of six paths acquired that power from the Juubi, the evidence is clear as day. Tobi lived a very long time, longer than Madara, longer than Hashirama’s wife. Like I said before, Tobi really wants the body of the juubi released from the moon for a reason. I can already tell the final battle is going to be the Juubi vs Sasuke and Naruto. Sasuke will probably die saving Naruto…

  149. Come on guys isn’t it obvious yet… Tobi is Madara’s Horcrux, <__<

  150. Madara did not die in the battle between him and the 1st, he just lost most of his abilities making him weak, so he decided to “heal” himself by gaining the Senju DNA and wanted to combine it with the power of the Tailed Beasts, he then created Zetsu as a beginning experiment, but this took time so he began to grow old and frailer, he found a young boy Uchiha in a cave, he then used his knowledge gained from the Senju and some of his own soul to be placed within the boy, “creating tobi” thus Tobi he would have all Madara’s memories and dreams.

    They had learn’t how to gain the Rinnegan and merely before his death Madara unleashed it himself but knowing time was against him he intrusted Tobi to fight on his behalf and eventually learn to bring back the dead. Though as Madara weakened the old Obito’s memories and behavior returned now he regained his old self but had seen all the pain and suffering the world had to endure he promised madara to revive him but ultimately lied as his true goal now was to unite the powerful nations against him, as he could see that evil was brought forth by the distrust and hatred that madara minipulated between nations and villages…

    Tobi also then knew he couldn’t keep the Uchiha alive as they would know too much (reading of the stone) using Itachi he killed the entire clan, but Itachi wouldn’t harm Sasuke leaving a final loose end that he would need to tie up, thus he gained Sasuke’s trust by doing good for him and saving him when he needed it.

  151. @joey I think they could have implanted Uchiha DNA in baby Nagato when thet “killed his parents”, thus giving him the possibility of obtaining the rinnengan and claiming rights.
    @pein: I like it, but, IMO, Zetsu is a more powerful presence than just a mere creation of Tobi. (Black Zetsu that is). For me, its as important as Tobi or Madara. Its black, with no “definition”, his hair resembles Tobi´s …
    I stand in my view that Zetsu and Tobi where once the same entity.

  152. Zetsu is a Top Deck and Tobi is a Flaky (because he keeps falling apart). There, mystery solved. <_<

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