Naruto Chapter 567 Breakdown: This is a story about a boy and his… fox?

Over these last few chapters, one specific theme has been lurking in the background, waiting for the right moment to jump out and make itself known to us. In fact, it would be more accurate to say that this is a theme that has been skulking in the backgrounds of this story throughout pretty much the entirety of Naruto as a manga, and, 567 chapters later, it has finally found itself at the forefront of the story and taken center stage at last.

That is, of course, the story of the relationship between Naruto and the Kyuubi.

If the word "cute" was represented visually in the most literal, brain-imploding way possible, this would be it... <_<

For those of you who haven’t imploded from an overdose to the almost nauseatingly cute image above, let us continue.

Admittedly, the relationship between Naruto and the Kyuubi didn’t get off to a very good start, unlike what is depicted in the picture you just saw. It stands to reason why this is the case though, because on both sides of the coin, Naruto and the Kyuubi probably had more than a few good reasons to loath one another, however justified or unjustified those reasons may seem.

A dark shadow is cast over a boy's life. To be hated for no reason. To be left alone without any hope for comfort. This is the fate of a Jinchuuriki... or is it?

From Naruto’s perspective, the fox was the very reason he was hated and shunned by everyone around him while he was growing up and for the Kyuubi, it was a case of being trapped as a prisoner against his will – inside a child no less – and being used by the shinobi system as nothing more than a weapon or tool.

I also think that part of the reason the Kyuubi tried to control Naruto to such a severe degree, was because it was – in a sense – a form of revenge against the shinobi system that tried to control him in a similar manner. The results of this early, tremulous relationship were plainly disastrous.

Overwhelmed by the Kyuubi's hateful will, Naruto himself becomes a puppet lead by a dark and sinister desire.

But in the end, however you may look at it, both Naruto and the Kyuubi were simply the victims of a world run by a system of power, with individuals who saw both Jinchuuriki and their Bijuu, as nothing more than a source of that power and as a weapon to be used.

I think this is a realization that has slowly been surfacing between the two of them over the years and it is something that has become most prevalent in these last few chapters specifically. Since Naruto fought the Kyuubi for control of its power and heard the story of how it was sealed inside him at the time of his birth, I think he’s started to realize that as much as he suffered because of those events and the fate he was burdened with because of them, the Kyuubi has suffered just as much as well – perhaps even more so when one considers that the Kyuubi has been detained by two previous Jinchuuriki, as well as being controlled previously by both Madara and Tobi on top of that.

I think it was this sense of understanding that allowed Naruto to see the Kyuubi in a different light and to understand his hatred, which also helped him change his perspective on what it means to be a Jinhuuriki.

I suppose there is some truth to what Pain said. That those who share the same pain will be able to understand one another.

Naruto’s more recent understanding of the Kyuubi has also ignited a new goal as well; to rid the big fluffy fox of his hatred. Although the Kyuubi verbally dismisses Naruto’s desires as being folly, it’s easy to see that those words affected him more than he would like to admit.

I think from there on out, the Kyuubi also started to realize that Naruto was different from the other shinobi who always sought to control him before, and that Naruto also saw him as something more than just a weapon or monster. Perhaps the fox is finally starting to understand that he and Naruto are essentially just two sides of the same coin. They were both used, both shunned and both seen as weapons or monsters. They both shared the same pain and misunderstanding and they are both still being hunted like animals to this day. In truth, they should be able to understand one another more than anyone else, purely because of those bonds shared through their mutual suffering.

This is a connection that the Hachibi is able to notice and he even calls out the Kyuubi on it, citing that something must have happened between the two. With Naruto now in peril, the time has come for the Kyuubi to make a choice; to either aid his lifelong companion, or to abandon him to his fate and allow his hatred to consume them both…

Dun, dun, dun! Well, this isn't exactly 'hatred' that's comsuming them right now, but it's close enough. <_<

And so, we’ve gone through the story of Naruto and the Kyuubi up until the present day. Now all that’s left is to see how the rest of their story unfolds. As they say, the journey is more important than the destination, so let’s just enjoy the ride form here on out.

In any case, I am sorry if my breakdown went off a bit into the deep end of the psychological spectrum, and I’ll take full responsibility for any emotional breakdowns some of you might have suffered as a result, but that’s just how it goes sometimes. I would have mentioned a bit more about Suigetsu, Juugo and Sasuke, but honestly, there was nothing to say about them because they didn’t do much in this chapter other than take up unnecessary panel space and I also believe that Naruto and the Kyuubi were the true focus in this chapter.

But, for the Sasuke fans out there who still need their fix, I’ll give you a nice picture just to keep you happy. <_<

Hmmm... He seems pretty emo...tional to me. Don't you think? O_o

Hopefully, he’ll have a more fulfilling role in the upcoming chapters, as opposed to the “ramp model” role Kishi has subjected him to of late. Of course, Kakashi and Gai also filled more of a support role in this chapter as well, but they managed to at least still be awesome while doing it, despite their brief page time.

Alright, I’ve done my duty for the fans out there. That’s it from me this week. But of course, we still need last week’s bubbliton winners, so here they are!

3rd) Michael Crume:

Gai: How dare you try to lay a single finger on Konoha’s precious youth! THAT”S MY JOB!!!

Kakashi: That’s right…. wait a second…

2nd) TheLaughingWiseman

Naruto: Ga-Ga-Ga, Abababa, on Fuh-Fuh-Fuh-

Gai: Out with it Boy!

Caption: Gai, your on fire… O.O

And the winner is, The Incredible Marksman. P.S. this is what happens when a Kakashi fan has a breakdown. <_<

Well done to Marksman for his entry. To be honest, this was a tough pic because there were quite a few good ones out there.

For those of you who enjoy their weekly dose of the caption contest, here is this week’s screen.

*Insert possible caption here.*

See you all in the comments!

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~ by Tenrai Senshi on December 19, 2011.

96 Responses to “Naruto Chapter 567 Breakdown: This is a story about a boy and his… fox?”

  1. FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. Second

  3. Second again Kantonkage? O_o

    Are we going back to old habits now? 😛

  4. Yondaime!!!

  5. Itachi HA!……oh uhhhh i meant to say 5th hehe.
    thoroughly enjoyed the breakdown Ten, though i didn’t make it past the 1st picture cuz i sploded…<_<

  6. Awesome breakdown tenrai. I don’t know about the other guys, but i like breakdowns with a psychological touch. Maybe I just was in the right mode right now.

    Caption: Naruto: Uh, good boy, nice pony- KAKASHI!! HALP!
    Kakashi: Seriously Guy, there’s a five story-tall dolphin-pony behind you and I’m not sure I like the way it grins at us, get us out of here asap!
    Gai: Ah, Kakashi, a lying contest is such an unyouthful challenge, but one I will win nevertheless! Let’s see…my unitard makes a horrible behind!

    Mwahahaha! Good luck in trying to fit that in the bubbles.

  7. i think may people fail to realize how amazing naruto is for forgiving and wanting to befriend th kyubi….has everyone forgotten that not only is the kyuubi al those things mentioned in the breakdown but he also murdered naruto’s parents by trying to kill naruto himself…the fact that naruto can even stomach him (get it?) is pretty awesome

  8. @mordi: You’re wrong about that. One, if Naruto didnt kill Nagato for what he did after seeing that he had reasons however doubtful they may be, what makes you think he wouldn’t forgive the fox. Believe me, it’s hard to feel hate for someone for taking away people who loved you when you never eben knew them.
    Two, Kyyubi didn’t kill anyone willingly. The one to blame is Tobi, and Tobi alone. I know it sounds surreal, but even a giant mass of hatred can be the victim sometimes 😉

  9. Gai: Just what the hell is that thing supposed to be?!?!?!?

    Kakashi: Can’t you tell Gai? It’s Charley the unicorn!

    Naruto: Charley….

    Caption: And this is his Chu-chu-shoe impression….


  10. Naruto: Is that pikachu?
    Gai: What, where?
    Kakashi: Is he doing a Quick Attack?!

    Caption: RedBull, It gives you tails !!!

  11. @dmaxx

    I don’t entirely agree with your last comment and I have to somewhat agree with Mordi on this one. You say that it’s hard to hate someone who killed your loved ones, but the truth is, it is actually very easy to feel rage towards the person who took them away from you, even if you never knew them. It’s not like you’ll care for their motives and say “Oh, I understand why he did it so I’ll just forget about it.” When something like that happens, emotions take over and rational thought becomes near obsolete.

    To forgive truly is harder than it is to hate, I think.

    Remember, that before Naruto decided to spare Nagato, he felt so much hatred towards him that he admitted that he just wanted to kill him on the spot after seeing him. It was the teachings of Jiraiya that saved Nagato in the end because Naruto realized that despite how he felt, he knew that all his actions would do is cause even more hatred in the hearts of others – the same kind of hatred that he himself felt. Essentially, he realized there was no justice in committing the same act he condemned another for and that all he would be doing would be to contribute to the very cycle of death and destruction that had already victimized him through the loss of his master.

    However, in saying that, I believe that is exactly why Naruto CAN find it in himself to forgive the fox. Because he understands what that hatred feels like. He understands what it feels like to be blinded by revenge so much that it consumed him and that the Kyuubi must have been blinded in a similar manner. I think the loss of Jiraya taught Naruto to truly understand what hatred really is and, in a way, it also taught him to understand the hatred of others as well. That is why he mentioned after his battle with Pein, that he finally believed that he understood Sasuke’s feelings. In a similar sense, I believe he understands the Kyuubi’s hatred even more now as well.

    Naruto also understands now that if he wants to fulfill his master’s wishes for peace, then he needs to destroy that hatred in all its forms to end the cycle. Not just the fox’s hatred, but all signs of hatred within himself as well. He can’t just want revenge all the time and he can’t afford to give into hatred anymore like he almost did when facing Nagato. After all, you can’t defeat hatred if you are one of its thralls, now can you? I also believe that is exactly what Naruto achieved when he did his training at the falls of truth with Bee. He was finally able to destroy that dark part of himself that caused all those negative emotions, and if you’ll notice, that was when he was first able to start seeing the Kyuubi, and even the villagers of Konoha, in a different light. Even Nagato mentioned how Naruto’s expression had changed when meeting him again after that episode and how different it was from the last time he saw him. I think that in itself says a lot.

    In any case, I went off on a bit of a tangent. To me, as Mordi said, it is very impressive that Naruto was able to overcome hatred in order to forgive, in both cases with the Kyuubi and with Nagato.

  12. 12th! Ha!

  13. Tenrai, maybe I didn’t come out exactly that clear. I didn’t say Naruto forgot everything Nagato had done, but he heard him out and understood why he became the kind of person he was. Still, he couldn’t forgive him, and as you said, forgiveness is something extremely hard to achieve, especially when the person who wronged you, did it recently.
    But, and again you are right, that Naruto was able to overcome his hatred by choosing not to do what everyone else would have done, he showed what an extraordinary character he is. That is the reason I like him better than Sasuke. Naruto was able to overcome his urges even if it was probabaly his hardest decision yet. It showed his mental growth. Despite being an idiot, I think he did inherit some of jirayas, well I don’t know if the words wisdom and jiraya could be said in the same sentence, but I think you know what I mean lol.

    About what you said in your first paragraph, it really wasn’t exactly kyuubi’s fault that Madara decided to control him. Still, forgiving Tobi, now that would be a challenge.
    However, in my last comment I didn’t really only speak about Naruto. Actually I was speaking out of personal eperience in this matter. Maybe I did not react to certain things in my life like a person normally would, but I the only thing I can tell you is how I felt.
    While I did and still do hate the person responsible for taking something precious to me, that is for other reasons entirely. The truth is, having this thing taken away from me, made me realize that I never actually had it, and it did not fill me with hatred as I expected it would, but left me rather feeling just sort of hollow, as if I weren’t a whole person.
    Well sorry if I bore you with all of this personal stuff, but some discussions I can relate to bring that all up again and then I like getting all philosophical and shit. 🙂
    I guess in the end it really changes from person to person how you deal with life’s hardships, the only thing that matters is to not let it get to you.

  14. @Dmaxxx3d

    Don’t worry, you aren’t boring me, and I would never take your feelings lightly or just brush them off as insignificant.

    Circumstances do greatly affect how these situations may play out or what feelings are involved, so I can’t say that one prime example of human emotions can apply to all of them equally. Some people react more severely to certain situations, but I can say that feeling “hollow” as you put it, can sometimes be a severe reaction in its own way…

    I won’t presume to say I can perfectly understand your feelings, but sometimes allowing ourselfs to become “numb” is the best way to stop ourselves from feeling hurt. That too is a way people may choose to deal with pain.

  15. @ Tenrai Senshi:
    Thank you for your kind words. Most people may not realize it, but it’s amazing what apparently simple gestures can do.
    I would not exactly put it as feeling numb to choose to avoid pain. I was more shocked about my lack of reaction. I felt like a normal person ahould feel sad and that I was strange because it bothered me for a few days at most. It made me see how much of a cold person I am in certain aspects.

    Anyway, I actually wanted to ask you whether you were still writing fanfiction or not. I think I rememeber having started eyes of a broken soul but due to having no time i never finished it. I liked your writing style thoughp

  16. Too late for first… XD!
    Awesome breakdown Tenrai, and I loved your Charlie The Unicorn reference!

    Bubble:
    Gai: “And here at my left you can see the “three headed monkey”…
    Kakashi: No shit??! I ough to see that!
    Naruto: Guys, look out! A wild nuclear 5 tailed dolphin Ponyta is attacking!
    Caption: Not a good time to make “the Monkey Island” joke.

  17. Is it confirmed that there will be no chapter coming out this week?

  18. @Dmaxx

    Actually, Eyes of the Broken Soul already has 40 chapters. What I uploaded here was just three of those chapters that were fixed up and improved a bit. I haven’t actually written fanfiction in a while though, due to a lack of time.

    P.S. The fact that you’re thinking about your feelings means you’re probably not as cold as you might think you are.

  19. Tenrai: I know, I have an account on fanfiction.net and I read it there.

    Why shouldn’t. There be a chapter out? I demand my christmas mamga dose damn it!

  20. nice breakdown tenrai, the deeper perspective served this chapter the justice it deserves.

    I did see that there will be no shelf release this week but last week was a double issue so we should still get 568 this week. Last year they gave us the double issue chapters in the same week but then there was a break so hopefully Scantalators are spacing it out so we don’t go through with-drawls.

    Although i’d be lying if i said i wasn’t envious of the Scantalators that have had the chapter for a whole week now.

  21. I just realized that I put the words in the wrong bubbles for the winner of last week’s bubbliton contest. -___-

    Oh well, I couldn’t be bothered to change it right now. <_<

    P.S. if there's now new chapter this week, I will have an emotional breakdown. T___T

  22. So I just found out a double issue means that it’s taking a week off and not doubling the size *facepalm* so no new wjs until after the 26th. They are taking the first week of January off too *double facepalm*. My apologies if I got anyones hopes up 😦

  23. *Eats Tommy for getting my hopes up* T__T

    Now, excuse me while I commit Hara Kiri….

  24. I suggest, then, that we create our own stick-figure Naruto manga chapters to hold us over. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    I suggest many “pew pew’s”, a handful of “RAAAAAAAA’s”, and a modicum of “urggggh’s” and “whumwhumwhum’s”. Add others for flavor.

  25. No way, how can Kishi do this to everyone! This is what torture must feel like…… maybe

    @arpotu how would you continue on from last week?

  26. So what’s the verdict, is there gonna be a manga out this week or not??

  27. Gai: Did I tell you? I finally was able to punch Lady Gaga. I ran up stage and and then Falcon Punched her in the olvaries.

    Kakashi: Whoa! No Way! Was it everything I ever dreamed it would be?!?!

    Naruto: ….!!!

    Caption: (Naruto’s thought at the time, since he couldn’t speak) “those words?! They were uttered right before I died… my life is complete…”

  28. Damn week breaks. What is up with those people. I want my money ba… Wait a minute… *starts walking slowly backwards towards the exit… then sprints out the door!*

  29. -_- i was so consumed with stuff to do yesterday i completely forgot about naruto, and when i realized today was thursday i RAN to my computer to see the new chapter!………….except for the part where there was no chapter…just shoot me now <_<

  30. You know… If a sane person were to walk in here right now…

  31. OMG I can’t believe Kishi did this to us now of all times, I tell you if he will release the manga on Christmas Eve it would be even more F’ Up because he kept us in wait for so long. But non the less I would be grateful to get at least one more chapter by the end of this year.

    And also Kishi lied at the start of this year stating this would be Kakashi’s year when in fact Kakashi, except being a being of higher understanding and power, did Nothing, Kishi didn’t even show us the fight with the 7 swordsman. That was cruel as hell.

    So at least I would be really pumped to see something along the lines of Naruto reaching the perfect fusion with kyuubi and go on a Mind Fu**ing Rampage and managing to break Tobi’s mask and in the last panel we sould be left with the epic of epics and that is Naruto with his back towards us and facing a unmasked Tobi just so we can’t see he’s face and Kakashi and Gai with !!!!!! marks and a surprised and terrified look on there faces.

    At least that’s what I would like from St. Nick. Marry X-Mas and Happy Hanukkah if it be the case to all.

  32. @Eugen

    Firstly, you can’t really blame Kishi for a lack of a chapter. Shonen Jump as a whole is on a break, so none of our big three will be coming out this week.

    Secondly, that interview about all the stuff that was meant to happen this year, sometimes I wonder about their credibility. I mean, according to the one interview, the 8-tails was meant to attack Konoha and we know that definitely didn’t happen. I would take those with a pinch of salt if I were you.

    Other than that, happy holidays to everyone. Enjoy the break, try not to die from withdrawal symptoms and stay safe!!!

  33. Spoiler Alert never looked so sweet

    http://forum.mangastream.com/showthread.php?t=31729
    Praying to God it’s gonna be out soon.

  34. Spoilers Updated, Discuss at http://weareawesomeness.net/2011/12/15/naruto-chapter-568-spoiler-pics-summaries/

    Though they are still pending … :S

  35. Happy Christmas eve for those who celebrate Christmas!

    The best part is the dinner. @___@

  36. Merry Christmas to all of you, hope yall have been good boyz…

  37. Merry Christmas!!!

    Well, it’s Christmas here in South Africa now, at least. 😛

    *eats everyone*

  38. I got 4 get out of Tenrai’s belly free cards for Christmas!!

    guess i’ll use one now, i may sell the rest on ebay…for the right price 🙂

  39. Please, you’re all exxaggerating way too much. I’ve never been eaten before. It’s not like Tenrai’s just waiting for you to say something stupid and… *rounds corner* Well damn! *Sigh* I’d advise you to use some ketchup, I have a very dry humour I’ve been told
    Merry christmas people 🙂

  40. Marry X-Mas everyone, hope you party till after the new year’s eve.

  41. Is there gonna be double issue next this week? I read it on mangahelpers discussion. 😀

    Blessed Christmas to everyone! 😀

  42. SPOILER ALERT!!! 😀 😀 😀

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/74188-Naruto-568-Spoiler-Pics-Summaries

    It seems like Bijuu’s likes to eat Naruto. 😀 Last time na Sandi.. now the Yonbi. 😀

  43. New chapter is out! http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/52710473/1

  44. I can’t believe I waited a whole week to find out the 4 tails nae in Son Goku.
    Are you serious, is it or dose everyone feel the need to torture kishi for a whole week for this crap.

  45. That chapter was awesome!!!

    I don’t care about the son goku name reference. We already know Kishi was inspiderd by dragon ball so that was probably just a nod to that, but damn, everything else about that chapter was epic! @___@

    *eats Eugen for not agreeing*

    I’m so glad we got to have our manga fix this week, even though it’s a bit late.

  46. *gives eugen get out of Tenrai’s belly free card*
    crap now i’ve only got 2 left.

    i liked this chapter well enough, i think it opens up a whole new dynamic for discussion.
    knowing naruto he’ll probably make friends with all the tailed beasts n release them from “nobody’s” control.

  47. Dish11, Id ask for one card but i want to feed from tenrai´s stomach to get a hold of his awesomeness, like the Gin Kin brothers, kukuku.
    @Chapter, a meh one, but after reading Bleach it increased its power level over 9000.

  48. I didn’t feel this chapter. I guess it was the unexpected break and the harshness of reality that is Kishi. Should’ve known he’d flip the script and change tempo to another story plot (The Bijuu have personalities.) I think it’s cool that Naruto could go into the Beast one by one and liberate them but I wanted to know KURAMA’s resolve. I guess he is going to be last as Naruto attempts to break the chains that oppress all the Bijuus, saving Kurama for last. Lame…

  49. I enjoyed this chapter. I wonder if Tobi/Kabuto have taken this twist into consideration? What if Naruto could convince all the tailed beasts that he’s the hero, and they follow/merge with him? Would that leave Tobi/Kabuto in control of the shinobi, but not the beasts?

  50. Good chapter i been coming here 4 years and today i desided 2 make and account since i had 2 comment about the new OP anyways i feel like naruto has been blag lately and as much as it pains me 2 say this im looking forward 2 the new OP chapter its starting 2 get more interesting than naruto -__-

  51. @Antnasty

    Welcome to WRA!!!

    It’s always good to see new people coming on to comment and discuss all the manga and anime with us. @___@

  52. @wiseman

    Wouldn’t it be more lame if the Kyuubi just became friendly in one chapter? I mean, after hundreds of years being hateful towards the shinobi, do you just expect him to flip the switch so suddenly and become buddy-buddy with Naruto? Motivation is a key point here and by freeing the other Bijuu, Naruto would be proving himself to Kurama, by showing him that he wasn’t just all talk.

    I thought the chapter hit the right notes actually and it stayed on par with the theme that the previous chapter had already established – the relationship between Bijuu and Jinchuuriki. It also established the fact that the Bijuu not only had personalities, but also their own individual identities as well. This is the first step towards understainding them and their animosity towards humans, the latter whom have never even bothered to learn their names at the very least, much less anything else about them besides the fact that they have power.

    Other than that, the chapter also had enough action to keep me happy as well, not just all dialogue.

  53. I have to admit this latest chapter grew on me after rereading it. It was, just as Wiseman said, Kishi always knows when to screw your week over with something you can’t even predict.

    I actually think he stays at home an reads all the blogs about the next Naruto predictions and he goes back to his tablet and draws something in the opposite direction.

    Yeah he can do that, the little bastard.
    But all in all the chapter brought something new and Kakashi made a great jutsu. I’m glad to see both Gai and Kakashi fighting great opponents, but it downgrades the quality of the jinchuriki a bit seeing as both Bee and Naruto weren’t a match for them in human form and now Bee in the full 8 tails form, but Gai and Kakashi are managing just fine. I don’t know maybe it’s some of that left over RAMPAGE or who knows maybe it’s Chuck Norris undercover, but the fact is that the fight just got a little easier.

    As for the Naruto / Bijuu situation, I guess it all points towards the fusion of the jiuubi under Naruto’s control. Maybe after all the Bijuu start to trust Naruto and eventually fuse into the Juubi it will have a collective mind of all the Bijuu and will side with Naruto after and thus he’ll become the new Sage of Six Paths. The Kyuubi didn’t make the remark for nothing after Naruto turned into the chakra mode for the first time, the fox knows something and it already showed it wants to help Naruto, both in his fight with Edo Madara and by not absorbing anymore of his chakra.

    I am actually a bit suspicious of Goku, he seems a little to eager to get free and they way the translation sounded, it made me think twice about considering it a good idea to free him.

  54. Wow, this chapter was really good. I absolutely loved the panels showing Kyuubi’s memeories. It is so interesting to actually see a converation btween Kyuubi and one of tze humans he had contact with. And when Madara confronted him he looked like like a giant fluffy pokemon 😀
    And does anyone know whether Kurama actually means something? Damn, Kyuubi has a name. I’m suddenly reminded of tons o really cliche fanfiction

  55. @ DMAXX, I read it actually means Demon Fox

  56. Does anybody know if we are getting a double post this week?

  57. Oh. Well that’s less…original

  58. @Drice

    I believe the chapter we just read was in fact an early release of this week’s issue. So, chances are, the next release will only be out next week wednesday, as per normal. I highly doubt there will be a double post this week, but then again, I guess we can always hope, right?

  59. I was gonna ask the same thing. Is there gonna be a chapter going out next week? I read in in the discussion in mangahelpers that the next issue will be out in a couple of weeks, like 11th or 16 of January. I’m confuse with the double post thing. Does this mean that there’s another one coming out this week or one next week?

  60. The least you people could do is give me more bubbliton entries to work with! T___T

    I mean, I only have like two or three to choose from as winners. That’s hardly what I could call variety. Are all of you feeling a bit underwhelmed in the imagination department these past two weeks?

  61. Bubble

    Gai: Kakashi my Eternal Rival, how about a game of Chiken?!?!?
    Who jumps away first has to do 1.000.000 push ups on there eye lash.
    Kakashi: Riiiightttttttt, how about rock, paper, scissors again??

    Naruto: Uhhmmmmm, I’m a bit stuck over here !!!

    Caption: Never interfere with the AWESOMENESS of Gai and Kakashi, even at the cost of your existence.

  62. @ Tenrai, that one’s just so you spit me out again becuse it’s getting a little cramped in here with Jeramiah, Totalitarian, Super, Reflex, Kisu and Prawl.
    Pleaseeee…… Echooo… Echoooo..

  63. *crickets chirping* <_<

    uhhhh guys?? O_o

  64. chirp chirp chirp

  65. Bubble:
    Naruto: Can we keep him! Please!!!
    Kakashi: We said you could have a puppy, not a Kaiju
    Gai: Besides we can barely feed the Akamichi clan as it is, how do you expect us to feed that thing as well?
    Caption: Not to mention it’s likely not house trained….

  66. This is what happens when there is no new chapter. The blog falls into complete and utter silence. X___x

    I swear I didn’t eat everyone…. T___T

  67. The only “clever thing” I got to say is….
    …Im level 31 in Skyrim, XD

  68. Two words for ya Tenrai

    BATTLE DEBATE!!

    Edo Madara vs Pein/Nagato at full power

  69. Assuming that Madara is free of the summoner like itachi is…Edo Madara hands down, easy. Dosnt even matter if pain/nagato smeers him with tech, it comes down to a matter of stamina and from what we’ve seen the edo has unlimited. Madara can just sit while Nagato spams his tech. Nagato showed no knowledge of sealing tech and it’s unclear if he could extract madara’s sole from the “body” that it is currently in.

  70. @Drice

    Actually, from what we’ve seen, none of the Edo zombies ever seem to run out of stamina or grow tired. It stands to reason because of their regeneration factor. If they can regenerate wounds in moments, what’s to say that their chakra would ever run out when clearly they don’t abide by the rules of normal, live humans?

    This means we have no way of knowing the limits of Madara’s chakra reserves vs Nagato’s. Actually, to be honest, it might be more accurate to assume Nagato has higher natural chakra reserves because he is an Uzumaki, and we’ve seen how their stamina seems to exceed most others. Still, even that may not be completely accurate because it also depends on the individual and not just one’s clan or bloodline, so at best those are moot points. In saying that, however, let’s compare what we do know.

    Of course, this is me comparing one human to another, so I actually think this should be a debate between a live Madara and a live Nagato, both in their primes, because Edo Zombies have too much of an advantage with the whole “not being able to die or grow tired” thing.

    In any case, we know that as far as Jutsu go, Nagato has apparently learned every mainstream jutsu in existence, from every element. Of course, if Madara has the Rinnegan, it is possible that he may have also been able to learn a lot more jutsu himself as well, but we have no proof that he ever did, nor has it ever been suggested. We have seen him use the classical fire jutsu the Uchiha are renowned for, so chances are, Madara chose to stick to his strengths rather than to broaden things up too much. This means that theoretically, Nagato may know a far greater variety of jutsu than Madara, as well as more elements as well, unless the contrary is proven otherwise.

    On the flipside, however, Madara has the advantage of the EMS as a buffer for his Rinnegan and this means he has Susanoo as well. Although I can’t speak for whether Madara has Tsukyomi or Amatarasu like Itachi and Sasuke do, Susanoo in itself holds a great deal of leverage against Nagato’s theoretically more vast pool of jutsu.

    Besides those points, both have the power of all six paths of Pein (although we can’t be sure if Madara can Summon Gedo Mazo or not), so they are technically equal in that department. You’d have to weigh the other points mentioned to come to a conclusion as to whom is better.

  71. “Naruto 568 was a double issue (WSJ issue #5 & #6), meaning it covers both this week and next week’s issue. This means that there will be NO chapter on January 4th. The next Naruto chapter (WSJ issue #7) won’t be released until around January 11th.”

    I’m really confused with the double post thing. How come it’s a double post when it’s only one chapter? Does it mean something else i’m missing?

  72. I forgot; Happy and Prosperous New Year to all!! 😀

  73. Happy new years everyone!!!!! (It’s just turned for us now, and the world hasn’t ended. :P)

  74. @Debate
    If Edo Tensei summons had infinite chakkra then when Edo-Tsuchikage split into two wouldn’t he have just regained all his chakra rather than being at half levels? True he literally split in half but it was mentioned that he could recover from it, so if the power drop wasn’t permanent and Edo Ninja’s just automatically gained chakra back then wouldn’t he have been at full power again automatically?

    Also Madara may have all the powers of the 6 paths, but he wouldn’t have Pein’s 6 puppets. Pein’s 6 paths give him a much wider field of vision as well as being able to surround Madara, as Sharingan doens’t give 360 field of view and the Rinningan needs the 6 puppets to increase it’s field of view Nagato would have a slight advantage, though we still have little to no idea of what Edo Madara is really capable of.

    Also Gedo Mazzo is also another thing that would play a large part in the fight with Edo Madara, though I am not certain just how much a part it would play.

    In any case there’s plenty of room for either side of this fight to win in my opinion, the only thing that is certain is that it would be a good fight.

  75. Happy New Year!!!

  76. Hmmm you both make good points. I agree though that the edo part should be left out and just make both of them living. So if you took both of them at their prime and living, i’d say that nagato has the slight advantage. Remember that madara said he had JUST acquired the rin before he died. So while he has the powers he is not that skilled with them. Nagato has had them for a much longer period of time so he can use them more effectivly and come up with strategies madara might not be able to think of. Nagato knows most mainstream jutsu so it’s likly that he knows sealing tech. If Nagato uses his rin more effectively by distracting madara or subduing him for even a second he would be able to seal madara’s powers if not mardara himself. Another thing nagato could do is make his singularity and release it very close to madara and also use god relms ability to push/pull madara towards it, buying enough time to seal him

  77. Happy New Year Everyone, sorry for the late wishes but alcohol was, lets say, never ending this past 3-4 days.

    As for the debate, as mush as I like Nagato, experience will set the marker for this one and there’s no one with more experience then Madara.

    Assuming the both are at there peak and both edo tensei, Madara has the upper hand because he also has Susano’o, a jutsu Nagato doesn’t have at his disposal.
    Also Nagato was branded with a mobility issue by Kabuto and that could impend him for getting out of the way of, lets say, falling Meteors.

    Nagato has the Chibaku Tensei, I’ll give him that, but Madara must have it also thx to the Rinnegan,
    And also the Uchiha trade mark Genjutsu, Nagato already being fooled by such techniques by Jiraya.

    Not to mention all the mind F**king Madara’s gonna throw Nagato’s way.

    It’s a great debate, but Madara seems to have more tricks in his pouch and a hell of a lot more experience.

  78. I don’t know, madara was bested by the 1st Hokage who has far less abilities than nagato. The first was good but even he doesn’t have the ability to do every jutsu and use every nature type. Genjutsu affect a person unless there is a break in the chakra flow, and when nagato is using his bodies he is constantly changing the flow of chakra. I was also under the impression that when jiraya used gen it only worked on the bodies of pain and subdued those, not nagato himself, or there would have been no way to recover and nagato would be left drooling in his chair inside the tree until somebody interrupted his chakra. Since Konan was there she could have interrupted his chakra as soon as jiraya cast the Gen on him, but then there wouldn’t have been time for jiraya to stab each bodie individually and take his time, nagato would have just stood the bodies up and attacked. Furthermore, we are talking about both of them at their primes, nagato at his prime wouldn’t have had the mobility issue that he had later in his life. I’m sure that nagato would be more than capable of destroying one or more falling meteors. Besides madara said that that tech was only for wiping the board clean. So if madara used it he’d be loosing. If madara did, nagato could use animal path to reverse summon himself away from the impact site and let the rock fall on madara’s head XD. I don’t know, nagato is the reincarnation of the SOT6P where Madara is trying to attain that power. I think that speaks for itself to say that nagato is more powerful, so like you said it comes down to skill and experience. While madara may have fought in more battles, nagato has fought in a time where more jutsu have been developed, honed and practiced than madara faced while he was alive. There could be, and i’m sure there is, jutsu that nagato knows that madara has never seen before. Furthermore, there could be jutsu that Madara thinks is unbeatable and somebody could have found a counter too and nagato now knows.

  79. @ Dricedt,
    Jiraiya actually stopped 3 of Nagato’s six paths and just like itachi did to Orochimaru when he cut off his arm, the J-Man used a gen to paralize and immobilize the one that fall for it. The draw back was that Jiraiya didn’t know there were 6 paths and let his guard down.

    If Madara, the best Uchiha, were to use a genjutsu it would surely not fail and would be 100 fold more potent then J-Man’s frog song.

    As for the skills, Nagato has the cripple legs ever since he was first drained by Gedo Mazo while trying to rescue Konan. That being said, I doubt he was in his prime then and you can be sure his legs were F’ed after that fight.
    So the mobility issue is there to stay.

    As for Hashirama, well, till late last year I never saw Hashirama as a very strong shinobi because all we saw of him was a fight with Hiruzen that didn’t prove anything at all and from my point of view it actually lowered all 3 kages skill level to that of a Jounin at best (this was due to the fact that the manga was at it’s earlyest and strong guys are only shown later)

    But learning about Tobirama’s awesome skills last year I started to think in perspective.

    While Tobirama was known for Expert Water jutsu use, the creation of Edo Tensei and Space time Ninjutsu among other great skills a question pops into mind:

    Why wasn’t he the first Hokage, because Hashirama was even stronger.
    It’s true, all we know about his skills is that he uses Mokuton, so water and earth nijutsu to perfection and that’s about it.

    The fact is we don’t know a lot about the fist Kages and Madara, but what Madara showed against the five kages was nothing short of Mind Blowing Awesomeness.

    Oh and about the meteors, Madara didn’t react to it because he knew he would regenerate but given his knowledge of his own jutsu I doubt he wouldn’t take cover under Susano’o at a safe place while the rocks smash the battle field.

  80. @Eugen

    Remember, we are debating with both candidates in prime living condition, that means Nagato has no disability or mobility issues. Also, how can you say Nagato wasn’t in his prime at that time he fought Hanzou and Danzou? He summoned Gedo Mazo, used the power of his paths and forced two kage level shinobi (Actually, I believe Hanzou was above Kage level) and all their forces to retreat (those that survived anyway…) All this was after having his legs crippled in an explosion and while he was trying to protect Konan at the same time. Despite that, do you still think that somehow made him out to be weaker than the frail mess we saw sitting in a wheel chair controlling puppets from afar? Lol. No, if anything, Nagato was stronger when he still had his body intact.

    Anyway, you mentioned things like Madara using genjutsu and all that, but we don’t know what genjutsu he can use exactly or how good he was at it. We know the sharingan allows him to control the Kyuubi, but not much other than that. Madara may not even have the same genjutsu proficiency that Itachi or Izuna had, so I think that’s a dead point in the end, otherwise Madara would have already used genjutsu in his current battle, but he has yet to even do so at all.

    In any case, both Nagato and Madara have shown abilities that have destroyed entire battlefields. To me, Chibaku Tensei is about as impressive as Madara’s meteor no jutsu and probably affects a similarly sized area for destruction. One creates a moon, up in the sky, the other makes one fall from the sky, so it’s one of those glass half empty situations. We can’t really compare them accurately though, nor can we fairly conclude which is better or more powerful without making assumptions.

    I also don’t agree with you on the point of Madara having more experience. I say that because we still don’t know at what age exactly Madara died, so Nagato may have even been the same age at the time of his death that Madara was at the time of his. Both grew up in environments that involved shinobi world wars and both lived on the battlefield. In fact, you could say Ame was the ultimate battlefield that held the concentrated forces of all the great shinobi nations in one single place, with Nagato, Yahiko, Konan and the Akatsuki they created at the time in the middle of it all, so it would be prudent to assume they had any less war or battle experience than Madara himself.

    And about your last point, the reason Hashirama was chosen as the first Hokage was apparently thanks to his ability to control all the tailed beats. There were a number of them that were under his control at the time Konoha was formed. It was only after Konoha was formed that Hashirama decided himself to divide the tailed beasts between the other nations to establish a balance of power in an attempt to create peace between the five great shinobi countries.

    Having said that, I am sure Hashirama was very strong in his own right, otherwise Madara wouldn’t have regarded his power so highly. Tobi mentioned that Hashirama was the man Madara hated the most, but also the man he respected the most (although he was talking about himself as Madara at the time). I think that says a lot as far as Hashirama’s strength goes. But also remember, that was before Madara got the Mokuton or the Rinnegan, after which he obviously became more powerful and probably surpassed Hashirama by that stage.

  81. P.S. I know I am a bit late with the breakdown guys, but I have been on holiday and since I have gotten back, things have still been quite busy, so I just haven’t had the time yet. It will either be out later tonight (although I doubt it) or tomorrow (more likely).

    I hope that’s alright with you all. T___T

  82. All the talk about Madara made we wonder where the heck is Itachi @_@

    On a serious note I think Madara should be able to best nagato, I mean EMS + Rinnengan that’s Hax to the max.

    I have a question for you guys though, Can Itachi’s Sword of Totsuka seal Susano’o . E.g if he hits madara’s or Sasuke’s susano’o with it . What happens?

  83. @Ahsan

    Your guess is as good as mine. Lol.

    Susanoo should be able to defend against attacks, but we have seen some kinds of attacks that have managed to bypass that defense to some degree. It stands to reason that the strike from a weapon from one Susanoo should be able to bypass or destroy the defenses of another, depending on the nature of the attack and the differences in their power.

    So, I guess it is possible that the sword of Totsuka could perhaps bypass the defense of another Susanoo, but we can’t be sure until we see it happen.

  84. Here’s a cool funny video for everyone, compliments of Super! ^ ^

  85. @ Tenrai, sorry dude but I have to disagree with you on all point, not once did you make a valid point about your arguments.

    1st off, Nagato was chaotic and frenetic on the battle field when he saved konan, much like Naruto was in his 6 tails form, I mean there’s a pannel after he sucks the soul out of the shinobis where he looks like a mental patient.

    If your gonna point out to me that reckless action and all out power spamming defines one’s prime then naruto already was at his prime.

    No my good friend, One’s prime is a combination of great excess power and flawless control over it and the understanding of that power. What Nagato did was short of madness. When he finally beaten Hanzou I will regard him at his peak because he had control, understanding and calm over himself with the knowledge of a mature shinobi.

    Madara never once was shown to lose control in the few fights we’ve seen him in and with the powers he had at his disposal I’m sure he could have been a mach for Nagato even with only the EMS.

    As for Genjutsu besides the most potent one you’ve already pointed out against a bijuu what about this:
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/7

    Please try and tell me that wasn’t the effect of a genjutsu!!

    On other points, Nagato has only the RINNEGAN while Madara can spam form Rinnegan to Sharingan when ever he feels the need, so Amateras, Susano’o, Tsukuyome, Meteor Shower, God realm, Humain Relm. Preta Path, Animal Path, Naraka path are all at his disposal.
    While Nagato is only restricted to the rinnegan witch I will grant is the most powerful doujutsu but lacks some key features that the Sahringan can grant especially who knows what a EMS can do.

    Now for experience, Nagato was about 35-40 years o;d when he died give or take a few years, he must have been around Minato’s age + a few more years.
    Madara was more then 40-50 years when he fought Hashirama and from what we gathered he lived on after that time, thus the remark of achieving the Rinnegan, knowng Nagato and also knowing Tobi. you can do the math if you calculate how old nagato was and the Saruto as well as Jirayia when he met them from that you get roughly a time span in witch you can point the age of Hashirama and Madara.

    As for Shodai Hokage, I know he was a strong dude and no one can contest that but besides the control he had on the bijuu and mokuton witch go hand in hand there’s not much else we know about him, and all I said was that the only time we got to see him in action was a bit to soon for us to see what all 3 Hokages were truly capable of.

  86. Nagato would win.

    Kurama has stated that Madara’s chakra is more sinister then his own, but he did not say he had as much as it did. Nagato, being an Uzumaki, has more stamina and vitality then ordinary men. Madara might have been capable of powerful jutsu but I think he had to use the ones he could conjure up. I know he called 2 meteors from the sky but that was with him being resurrected and Kabuto manipulating him so that he’d be “above his prime.” I guess he was just seeing what he could do. We still don’t know what Jutsu Nagato was able to perform. He was trained in all elements by Jirayia to defend himself. Nagato would probably be fighting with his other bodies too. They’d be able to nullify the Genjutsu cast on by ordinary Sharingan and the Taijutsu would be a push because madara could use the sharingan to read moves while Nagato would use his other bodies for shared vision. It has not been proven that Madara can make one eye rineggan and sharingan. (tobi implanted himself with a rinnegan, he did not form the rinnegan and make one sharingan and rinnegan. So I will assume that’s the only way it can happen.) So Madara is going to have to switch between the two. There seems to be some time duration to switch because Madara mentioned how close he came to being hit by Narutos FRS. So Nagato could launch a missle and what not with one of his paths. It seems that the tools Itachi’s Sussano had were unique and were found by only Itachi, so most likely they were lost with him.

    Nagato could use the almighty push to push back the Amerterasu. He can use the Chibaku Tensi to Destroy the Susanoo it was going to be proven but Itachi had to think critically and found out that you can destroy it with (Susanoo’s most powerful long range attack+Bijuu Bomb+FRS!).

    His Bodies are going to be close to him so he wont have to consume a lot of chakra and can focus up on one guy much better to use the chibaku tensi.

    If Madara is in EMS mode, and uses Amerterasu then Nagato could almighty push it away and pull Madara to it. He can not stop it. It took a 6-tails Formation from Naruto to stop an Almight push when he was angry.

    When it’s rinneggan on rineggan it becomes much more complicated. Can an almighty push counter an almighty pull?

    Was Madara the only one able to summon the Meteore or was Nagato able to do it at full strength (remember he was just trying to capture Naruto not kill him.)

    Nagato has the edge in my books. He’s more of an unknown but in a dangerous way.

    It seems Madara was able to create powerful jutsu but not in a constant manner, meaning powerful chakra but not a lot of it.

    Nagato would seem to outlast him. He was more intune with the rinnegan the Madara.

    Madara would need to switch between dojutsu so that in itself is a flaw. During his switch duration, Nagato can almighty push him and pull his soul out.

    Nagato wins in 9 rounds. He won’t come out w/out any scars though. Hard fought but he is just too much for Madara. He called himself a God for crying out load! He didn’t change because he wanted to. He had to for the sake of the story. But if Nagato was fighting with the personality he had before Naruto, he’d be a viscious killer believing no other was his equal. Yes he was being controlled by Tobi but he was also trained by Jirayia and his students have the tendency of being very creative in the thick of battle. They are unusually in their tactics and approach to their opponents. Madara believed in his eyes, Nagato in his self. He wins.

  87. @ Tenri – I enjoyed the video! pretty sweet.

  88. Actually the name is not a nod to DBZ. It is a nod to the Journey to the West. Son Goku’s name existed long before Dragon Ball and was originally Sun Wukong in Chinese. Saiyuki…and other manga and anime have used Son Goku as the Japanese ‘translation’ of the name. However the big ape form…..is totally a nod to DBZ. Though the Journey story does have him as a monkey god…he was not a huge gorilla/ape thing. And the crown like horn This huge Son Goku has in Naruto is shaped more like the diadem that Son Goku wears in Saiyuki and the original Journey to the West.

    Kurama… There is a Mountain called Mt. Kurama in Japan where the King of Tengu (bird like monster/demon the Uchiha is hinted/referenced to twice) taught a man fighting, magic, etc. There’s a Kurama Fire Festival- Uchiha=fire, will of fire…think fire country. It’s the birthplace of some healing practice called Reiki as well.
    And was also the name of the fox yokai character in Yu Yu Hakusho which Kishimoto is a fan of. So the name could be a nod to ANY of the above information starting from the first use of Kurama.

    By the way the person who keeps arguing the words prime uselessly…that is a highly opinionated term. Prime denotes when you were at your best (simply put). In this case it doesn’t matter if you were frantic or calm. Crazy or emotionless. Happy or Depressed. Sane or Demented. If that is your best, then you were at your prime at the time. Kishimoto uses the word prime alot, but have you ever noticed how he used it?
    He didn’t use in conjunction with their emotional state, but their age, skill, and fastest level of talent.

    You guys should really learn to get into old folklore of Japan. A LOT and I mean A LOT of what Kishimoto uses in Naruto references heavily on it. Twice there are tengu birds seen with Uchiha which might be an allusion to something *hint hint.

    Hell, there’s a Sasuke Inari shrine! Every name used is more important to who they are than people think. The Japanese are probably far less surprised in what happens in Naruto than English people are.

    It was stated by other shinobi that Hashirama was possibly the strongest shinobi known (besides the sage who many have and still consider a myth). Madara was one of the strongest. Whether or not you’ve seen him use it doesn’t mean you can’t get an idea of what they could do.

    Also to give you guys a hint to Tobi: He’s more than likely not Madara’s little brother. I don’t say this just because of his name either. Izuna can be the name of a fox spirit or the “least weasel”. A ref to Itachi (weasel). Also Mt. Iizuna was the home to one tengu (sure are a lot of tengu refs mr. Kishimoto puts in). -izuna gongen was the same tengu I think that rode upon a white fox…
    Although Tobi’s height is just a few centimeters taller than Iizuna and they have the same weight they are clearly not the same age.
    For example: his face-people keep saying he’s old. I digress that it’s just that side. Why? Well take a look at Minato’s flashback to what happened during Naruto’s birth. You can clearly see that the hand is unwrinkled and VERY young. It is no older than Minato and probably around the age of Kakashi (at that same time was a older teenager which people like to forget) or the older Itachi-almost nearly an older Itachi hand.
    Young hand-. Yeah I’m going on a limb here and saying that that side of his face was terribly damaged. I had third degree burn once on my thumb. NO skin on it for…a month or something…weird sticky liquid. By the time skin regrew on it it looked twice as old, wrinkly and ugly. So my theory is that Tobi’s right side was damaged at one point in time.
    Some people like to think he’s Uchiha Kagami (Danzo’s teammate). I like to point out that the guy would have much older looking hands when he attacked baby Naruto and they don’t even have the same eye shape! Kagami has sort of droopy eyed look and he was NOT in Tobirama’s team contrary to popular fan belief.
    So it’s MAY not Iizuna or MOST LIKEY NOT Kagami.
    There’s another funny theory that he’s Uchiha and Uzumaki. Because of his chakra chains. Chakra chains are NOT specifically Uzumaki. Kushina said herself that she was born with ‘SPECIAL’ chakra. No other Uzumaki was born with it. Special…hint hint. Tobi probably has the similar chakra and he seems to know a lot more about Kushina and the Uzumaki then others did. He also knew a shit load about Minato. Somehow he’s connected enough to both Minato and Kushina, probably knew them at some point utilizing Kushina’s chain technique for himself. Also Tobi unlike other Uchiha (we have yet to see him with Mangekyou) seems to know a few earth release techniques. Strange for an Uchiha to know them (Uzumaki are not earth-release users). And it certainly wasn’t an Uzumaki technique or a Tobirama (water-release) speciality. Similar chains can be seen holding down Son Goku the ape beast. Hmmmm…seems connected to the Sage’s chakra to me.
    But Tobi seemed to know who Madara is and Madara too knows Tobi….he even asked if Nagato used that technique with Rinnengan to revive him. Strange, but that means he may have lived to when Nagato took over Akatsuki. So there’s that weird possibility that he is Iizuna. Everyone may think it’s not Obito- he’s isn’t that kind of character! What would we know happened in all those yeras? Iizuna wasn’t either. And they’re both supposedly dead. Obito was crushed! Boo hoo! There is no possiblity that a man (madara) helped him or some kick in the gut sharingan and earth-release jutsu isn’t a possibility. Iizuna? Dead right?
    Japanese like to base personalities on your blood type. Hell you could lose a job just because you have blood type AB (both Sasuke and Itachi). Iizuna and Obito have O. What makes Iizuna any more the possibility than Obito?

    Personally- knowing Kishimoto it could go either way. Iizuna or Obito. I don’t see him bringing in a random Uchiha unless one of the main or sub-main Naruto characters were well-acquainted with an Uchiha. Danzo is dead. He’s not going to be explaining. Hiruzen is dead. There’s basically no one on the battlefield who would recognize Kagami so that only leaves two people who are recognizable. And yes…people do like to argue Tobi is Obito backwards (I can’t be sure of that when I haven’t seen it in Kanji- only basic kana which means nothing- I have a Japanese version of the Naruto tankoban- so while everyone has at least some Kanji. Sasuke, Itachi, and Naruto are written in only Kana).
    So if someone tells you Tobi is Obito backwards you can counter that since it’s Kana and it means nothing it holds only a small claim to the argument. Kishimoto puts meaning in a lot of things including what Kanji he uses. Though with that kana Obito backwards is actually Tobio.

    Also Kurama knows the past, the Uchiha, Madara and he’s never once reacted to Tobi. But when the real Madara swept on the scene he immediately helped Naruto- this is more of Kurama’s selfishness than actually understanding Naruto. Even in that chapter Kurama says Naruto is still like his other hosts and won’t be any different. So I think he’s relenting right now mostly so Madara won’t win. He doesn’t like him.
    That also means Kurama might actually have some idea who Tobi is. He knew the whole time probably that the guy wasn’t Madara since he felt Sasuke’s chakra and made that remark 😀 That makes me happy. Does that mean he didn’t care about Iizuna? Iizuna was a kinder shinobi than Madara was (how much-not sure). Would Kurama know Obito?….Sort of I guess. It depends if Kushina was around Minato alot at that time.

    Iizuna was reported to be pretty damn powerful. Perhaps not as much as his brother…or maybe he closed it in because he was kinder, but considering he died by going blind with the mangekyou I don’t think that the case. But he’s an Uchiha I suspect his abilities are similar considering he’s been shown to wear the typical garb of the Uchiha clan of that time period.
    So Tobi hasn’t really used any fire-release techniques…curious. But he’s used a variety of space-time, earth-release. And remarks himself to be considerably weaker than Madara… why is he that much weaker?
    He’s no-one. He said that. Iizuna was never ‘no-one’. But we don’t know the extent of that personality.
    So these chains that is exhibited by Kushina, Tobi, and holding down Son Goku.. Naruto is going to try to break them probably with none of Kurama’s help.
    By now I know why Itachi’s name makes sense now. Totally forgot about those guys. The kanko are little fox spirits about the size of a weasel. And I think a fox was shown along that abandoned Uchiha hide-out. So Kurama knows a shit ton more of what’s going on than he wants to let out.

    Also Pein’s puppets are closely attached to the paths- why would someone believe they are so completely separate that Madara can’t use it if he had the choice? Tobi and I believe Zetsu as well said they never thought Pain could be defeated in battle (Naruto technically did not defeat him in battle and Pain was shown to be able to absorb chakra to regain mobility if he really wanted) and Tobi knew of Madara’s power (considering how obvious it was that they at least knew each other when Madara was alive) so he’s a pretty good source of what Madara vs. Pain would be like.
    Also I don’t think Kishimoto revealed Pain’s stats yet. Madara’s and Jiraiya’s are tied for the top highest stats revealed in the most recent databook. Pain defeated Jiraiya so it is certainly possible for him to defeat Madara. It’s not like he doesn’t have other resources.

    On regards to Naruto getting all the biijuu….eh maybe. That would be at least seven chapters more unless he talks to them and frees them all at once. Even if he does get all the bijuu. Tobi is capable of summoning and controlling Kurama/kyuubi. The only other person known for this is Madara. Which makes him still damn powerful against the bijuu. He has something up his sleeve. He can still control the others to an extent with his sharingan and rinnengan combined. Seven at once? Not if they fight with him that much. So Naruto’s biggest choice is to not only get the bijju on his side because Tobi still controls the human bodies which are damn powerful on their own ( look at Gaara for one thing). He needs to get those piercings out or they aren’t going to get to him.

    Although me and a friend have a a sort of joking theory (more for amusement) that as a point of symbolism we will only see Tobi’s mask come off when Kakashi’s does and vice versa. Tobi did almost reveal his face…and sometime before….Kakashi’s mask was being ripped all over the place. Oh well that’s just wishful thinking.

    And I give congratulations and props to the person who reads all of this. I know there are grammar errors somewhere but my eyes are dead after looking at this screen for so looooong.

  89. I’m still waiting to see if Kishi will ever reveal what happened to the scroll Jirayia used to record a sample of Amerterasu. (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v17/c148/8.html) (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v17/c148/9.html) I am totally 100% certain Jirayia found out some good information to fight against it but it wasn’t given to Naruto. If Naruto is able to find a counter to Amerterasu, he can easily beat Sasuke. I mean why would Kishi take not of that particular scene if he doesn’t eleborate on it (i.e. how the 4th’s coffin was shown during the Konoha invasion arc in the 1st part but later reveals it would not have been possible with the restrictions of the Impure World Ressurrection Jutsu) Or maybe Kishi got lost in all his madness that he totally forgot about this little chapter. It wouldn’t be the first time he wen against his own words…

  90. @Eugen

    I didn’t actually see that genjutsu, I must admit. Still, it looks like quite a simple one and Madara may not be as proficient as Itachi, for example. I never said he couldn’t use genjutsu, I just said he hasn’t shown use of it to the extent that the likes of Itach or Shizui have.

    Anyway, you make it sound as if Madara has many more techniques at his disposal than Nagato, when we have evidence to suggest that this isn’t the case.

    These are the powers we do know Madara has for certain:

    1: Susanoo.
    2: The Uchiha’s fire jutsu.
    3: Mokuton
    4: Genjutsu, to a degree we do not know of yet.
    5: The power of each path of Pein.

    These are the powers we know of that Nagato has:

    1: Every mainstream jutsu that exists in the world, from all six elements.
    2: Gedo Mazo.
    3: The power of the six paths of Pein.

    Now, I know Nagato only has three things on his list, but as far as I am concerned, the first one makes up for all of Madara’s genjutsu, Mokuton and his fire jutsu. I would say Gedo Mazo makes good competition against Susanoo, wouldn’t you? And they both have the power of the six paths.

    And as for your point about Nagato losing his cool, just remember, he did that much damage in an emotional state after he just lost his closest friend and what he saw as his brother. Yet despite his seemingly frail mental state, he still seemed fully in control of his actions. He performed Shinra Tensei when he needed to defend and he used Gedo Mazo to attack. Can you imagine what he could do if he was even calmer and more calculated?

    You need to remember that the death of Yahiko was what caused that emotional outbreak, but in a battle against Madara, one-on-one, there will be no such emotional factors involved because there will be no-one else involved at all. This makes your point somewhat invalid and it becomes more obvious that a healthy Nagato who has full mobility, still has access to Gedo Mazo and all the other hundreds of jutsu he knows and the power of all six paths in one body, would be a much more prime candidate to fight Madara than a frail person in a wheelchair controlling six puppets from a distance.

    Your point about experience is fairly good, if you consider that Madara met Tobi and Nagato, apparently. However, it is also still a moot point, because firstly, despite the fact that Madara lived longer, it doesn’t mean he was constantly battling all the time. Secondly, we’ve seen far younger people in this series defeat far older and more experienced combatants many, many times. I mean, look at Kakuzu. He was defeated – as he puts it – by a bunch of “kids”, despite the fact that he had lived since the time of the first Hokage (as Madara had) and had far greater experience than anyone else he was fighting at the time.

    The same could be said for Gaara vs the second Mizukage, Itachi vs just about anyone he has fought, Sasuke vs Orochimaru, or even Naruto vs the Kyuubi, etc.

    In any case, I should tell you that I am not actually taking a side in this debate yet, nor have I once mentioned who I was supporting. My first few comments were just comparing what I felt were valid points between the two combatants, and nothing more. Just to make it seem a little more fair, really. If I had to choose someone realistically though, I may have chosen Madara simply because of the fact that he is such a legendary and prominent figure in the Naruto world, such that his name was so feared, that by itself it spurred the entire world to enter another great Shinobi war. Other than that, w still haven’t seen enough of Madara’s power to really gauge the battle fairly yet, and he may still have more up his sleeve that we have yet to see. So, I’ll just let the rest of you take this one on. I made my points about how I feel the two compared, but I won’t go further than that until I know more.

    If you read this far down my epic wall of text, you are either insane, or incredibly patient. Congratulations. ^ ^

  91. @thelaughingwiseman and @debate

    I think it’s time for me to enter the debate 🙂

    “So Madara is going to have to switch between the two. There seems to be some time duration to switch because Madara mentioned how close he came to being hit by Narutos FRS”

    I think being able to “turn it on” before being it is fast enough.

    “If Madara is in EMS mode, and uses Amerterasu then Nagato could almighty push it away and pull Madara to it. ”

    Kakashi’s great discovery, 5 second delay.

    “Kurama has stated that Madara’s chakra is more sinister then his own, but he did not say he had as much as it did. Nagato, being an Uzumaki, has more stamina and vitality then ordinary men. ”

    Then I’d say Madara is an Uchiha they have huge chakra reserves as well. I mean the reason Kakashi can’t handle the sharingan long is NOT because his chakra pool is small, it’s because his chakra pool is small as compared to an Uchiha. However his exceptional control over the chakra allows him to use less chakra .

  92. @tenrai

    I’d like to think of it this way

    Nagato = rinnengan

    Madara = rinnengan + EMS

    so Madara > Nagato

    We all know rinnengan has it’s flaws , the 5 second gap and what not.EMS helps Madara overcome them. It would be a wrong assumption to say that Madara can’t use the techs Nagato can use because of the rinnengan.

    @tenrai

    “Itachi vs just about anyone he has fought”

    Kakashi’s itching for a rematch. 30% clones just don’t cut it 😀

  93. @Ahsan

    That’s a very flawed analogy. Yes, Madara has the Rinnegan and the EMS but we still don’t know if he knows as many techs as Nagato, so it is by no means an automatic win. Besides, Hashirama beat Madara even though he had the EMS. It isn’t just an instant win, and it’s also up to the individual as well.

    Now, if you want a Kakashi vs Itachi debate, we can always do that. At least we have more info on both combatants so we can compare them more accurately. 😛

    Also, you’re wrong about the Uchiha’s chakra reserve thing you mentioned. The Uchiha could control the sharingan better not because they had more chakra, but because the sharingan had less of a chakra drain on pure blooded Uchiha because it was a natural part of their body. A non-uchiha has more problems because the sharingan isn’t a natural part of their body and thus takes a lot more chakra to keep active. There’s no point in the manga where it said Kakashi had small chakra reserves. He’s just a non-uchiha, that’s all.

  94. @Juwei

    Thanks for the interesting info. And welcome to WRA. ^ ^

    I’ve been trying to get more info on Japanese folk lore myself, more out of interest than anything else. I still have a looooooong way to go though. Lol.

    I know more about Greek mythology than that. X____X

  95. @tenrai

    I guess I did put it too simply . The point I was making was that hypothetically Madara should be able to use every tech that Nagato uses.As for the sharingan kakashi chakra thing. I said that it’s in the manga that Kakashi had BIGGER chakra reserves than NORMAL ninja’s but his chakra reserves were SMALL compared to that of Uchiha’s . I know that it’s also been said that sharingan is much less of a burden on Uchiha’s then it is on Non-Uchiha’s because of the whole Pure Blood thing but having more chakra is one of the reasons as well. I don’t know if I can find the pages in the Manga, but I believe it does hint to that.

  96. @Ahsan

    You forget, Madara apparently got the Rinnegan right before his death, so he didn’t really have time to use it properly, or to learn more jutsu with it. Although he may be able to use the power of the six paths themselves (shinra tensei, etc) Nagato still has all the other jutsu he learned when he trained with Jiraiya, from all the other elements.

    That kind of knowledge doesn’t just come built-in you know. Even if someone has the Rinnegan, they still have to learn each jutsu and train with them as well in order to use them properly. Assuming that Madara can do everything that Nagato can do just because they have the same type of eyes, would the the same as assuming that Sasuke can do everything Shisui can, because they both have the sharingan, etc, even though we’ve seen that this most certainly isn’t the case.

    You also need to remember that it is practically a given that Nagato has had much more time to use his Rinnegan than Madara had to use his, so it’s only natural that he would be better acquanted with it to some degree. This point is also supported by the fact that Madara was using his first battle against the Shinobi alliance as a test of sorts to see how his powers performed, almost as if he himself still didn’t know the extent of his own limitations. He even approved of facing the five kage citing that only they would be ‘enough’, probably because against them, he could truly measure how strong he had become.

    Now, back to Itachi vs Kakashi. You’re saying Kakashi has smaller chakra reserves than an Uchiha, but honestly, it also comes down to each individual as well and even amongst the Uchiha, there will be those who have larger chakra reserves and those who don’t. Also, remember that when Itachi and Kisame encountered Jiraiya, he had already used Amatarasu and Tsukyomi. He then retreated. When Kisame asked Itachi why someone like him would need to retreat, he mentioned that he had foolishly used Tsukyomi and Amatarasu, implying that it had exhausted him quite extensively.

    So, after just two MS jutsu, Itachi felt he was already at a dissadvantage. Does that mean he has the same chakra levels as Kakashi, or is it just the nature of the jutsu he was using? It could be either, right? Same goes for Kakashi…

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