Naruto Chapter 559 Breakdown: SURPRISE!!!!!

Ah yes.

Chapter 559 was just one of those chapters. You know, it’s the kind of chapter you read and when you reach the end of it, you simply can’t help but feel excited about this manga all over again.

When you consider the ebbs and flows of this fourth great shinobi war as it has progressed so far, there have been quite a few lulls between all of the promises of excitement that Kishi has teased us with. Battles we have looked forward to, which we assumed would be epic beyond proportion, often ended up being disappointments where we simply didn’t feel like we were getting as much bang as we were hoping for and although there have been moments that have shone like the sun itself, radiant in their glory, there have been more that have simply fizzled out like candle reaching the end of its wick.

I think these letdowns, whether they seemed minor or major, began to instill a sense of lethargy in us all, where we stopped putting our expectations up so high and simply accepted things as they were. For me, however, that feeling changed the moment this latest chapter was released. When I read it over the first time, it made me feel similar to the way I felt when I saw Naruto appear in Sage mode for the first time to face Pein, riding on top of Gamakichi – who was riding on top of Gamabunta – all looking very badass in an epic kind of way and all ready to kick some serious butt. It’s just one of those chapters that makes you feel giddy inside. You just want to pump your fist up into the air and shout “Hell yeah!”

To put it in a nutshell, this chapter was simply epic. Now if I just said that at the beginning, I could have saved myself two paragraphs of nonsense. <_<

Muu was very upset when his team lost their game of "charades". He simply couldn't understand how no-one was able to guess his Raikage impersonation....

So, Muu pretty much performs the summoning of the century. A nice little coffin comes out of the ground. The birds are chirping, the wind is blowing. It’s a pretty nice day all-in-all.

And then suddenly BAAAM!!!!! The coffin blows open like the closet Michel Jackson came out of.

I think this unexpectedly powerful entrance left one question in all of our minds while reading this early scene. Just who is it that could make such an explosive entrance that even the great Muu was left awed in such a way? At least, that is what I would have been asking myself if it wasn’t for the fact that I had already read the spoilers. <_<

But before our curiosity was satiated – or at least, for some of us – we first had a glimpse of Naruto’s skirmishes against the enemy on multiple battlefields.

I think it’s pretty safe to say that as far as war efforts are going, Naruto is single-handedly turning the tide of the entire battle in favor of the shinobi alliance. So, I guess he kept true to his word when he said that he would make a difference. He’s also lived up to – and most likely exceeded – the expectations of the Raikage, who was originally against either of the Jinchuuriki contributing to the alliance’s power.

One thing that really interested me, however, was Naruto’s interactions with Hinata. There seemed to be a bit of a connection between the two. Hinata is able to immediately recognize Naruto right away simply by the expression in his eyes – where even Kiba and Negi failed to do so with their enhanced senses – and conversely, Naruto was able to tell Hinata’s feelings through her eyes as well. This suggests a level of understanding that goes a bit deeper than mere friendship and it may even hint at an eventual relationship between the two, for all those HinataxNaruto fans who are still hoping for just that.

But is such a thing still viable?

Is this love, or is it just a dream?

One thing I was a bit disappointed about was the fact that we’ve apparently missed Kakashi’s supposedly awesome rampage, which I expected might have been the case for some time now. Instead, to make up for it, all we really managed to see was what could largely be considered as the aftermath of that rampage, where we find out how much damage was caused, but without ever seeing how it was caused or who the victims really were. We know that there are only “three” targets left, but we don’t know who, or who else has already been defeated.

Have the ‘Seven Swordsman of the Mist’ really disappeared without so much as a small glimpse of their true power? Will we really go without ever knowing just how they earned their fearsome reputation in the first place? It seems that will most likely be the case at this rate, because the most impressive thing we’ve seen so far on Kakashi’s side of the fence is Sai’s Tiger Jack-in-the-box no jutsu. But hopefully the anime will fill in a bit more where the manga left out when it comes to this war arc.

Kakashi fans everywhere simultaneously spontaneously combust. X__X

So, otherwise, things are looking great for the alliance, at least, they were until an ominous chakra was felt heading towards Gaara’s division. And that’s when it happened, the moment we were all waiting for. The plot kai of the century, where the greatest threat the the Shinobi alliance has ever faced finally made itself known for all to see.

The man behind the last coffin, is finally here…

"Epic"... just doesn't even cut it here folks...

And there we have it. The proverbial bomb was finally dropped.

Admittedly, it was a bomb most of us suspected was coming, but even our plot protection fallout shelters weren’t enough to save us from the shock wave of awesomeness generated by Madara’s entrance scene.

To be completely honest, in this single moment, with a single page dedicated to one of the most famous shinobi in Naruto, Madara managed to exude more epicness than the rest of this war arc put together. In fact, he was so epic, his parents might as well have just named him “Epic” and been done with it. <_<

Now the only question this leaves us with, is who the hell is the man behind the mask who had been masquerading as Uchiha Madara all this time?

Well, that’s it from me this week. I’m sorry the breakdown was a bit late (okay, more than a bit late), but I was informed by Pickles at the end of last week that he wouldn’t be able to work on the Naruto breakdowns anymore. I’ve been a bit busy myself so I was only able to work on it now, but I hope you all enjoyed it regardless. I’d also like to thank Captain Pickles for all his hard work on the blog and for all his great breakdowns, and I hope we’ll see him back at some point in the future, so he can humor us all again with his great writing.

Please give him a heartfelt thank you fall all his efforts. He deserves it. ^ ^

Captain Pickles... well, suddenly the reason behind all his crude jokes has just become so much more clearer to me now. X__X

Remember to sing the Captain Pickles song, written by Barney himself, in commemoration of this moment. http://barney.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Pickles_%28song%29

Beyond that, I was thinking of including a battle debate, but I think that would be best left for next week, when, chances are, we could have a battle debate that includes Uchiha Madara himself, once we’ve had a glimpse of his power. Itachi vs Madara anyone? Or perhaps we could measure him up to his impersonator…

Either way, that will be left for a later date. For now, I’ll leave you all with a bubbliton contest just to occupy your time.

*Insert possible caption here*

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~ by Tenrai Senshi on October 18, 2011.

146 Responses to “Naruto Chapter 559 Breakdown: SURPRISE!!!!!”

  1. First! Great breakdown tenrai! Thanks pickles for all your hilarious writing that has entertained us for so long…until next time…

  2. Awesome breakdown as always Tenrai! And a big ‘thank you’ to pickles for all the previous breakdowns, and good luck with whatever’s preventing you from providing MOAR

  3. Any sightings of spoilers?

  4. No sightings yet. The spoilers are about as elusive as Kakashi’s rampage. X___X

  5. Fifth!

  6. Thanks pickles for the great funny breakdowns, but the awesomeness must continue.
    Bubble:
    Bone dude: -OMG, I have been critically impaled by multiple pointy things, help me!
    Puppet sand woman: -Shut up, this other guy got the worst of it.
    Caption: When pointy things go the wrong way…

  7. Kimimaro: Wanna suck on my hard candy?
    Chiyo: Urp, it’s not candy…

    Caption: Toot Sweets… not what they used to be…

  8. No more pickles?!…..

    ….

    So no more jokes that can turn the stomach of even the most hardcore fetishist around?…

    *Starts crying*

    Thanks for everything pickles. I had a lot of good laughs reading your breakdowns. You will be missed.

  9. Great Breakdown!

    Bubble:

    Kimimaro: heelp…me…call..911
    Granny: Quit yer bitchin boy

    Caption: tough love. granny has it

  10. @Red

    Well, I’m personally hoping that it’s only for a while that Pickles will be absent. T____T

    But you know how life is…

  11. Bubble:

    Kimimaro: This is the worst boner I’ve ever had.
    Granny: You’re just horny.
    Caption: Give him a break, he just woke up.

  12. RAWRRRRRRRRR! Man It feels weird commenting, but hey guys, I have been lurking in the shadows reading posts for a couple of years now I really haven’t had the need to comment apart from now due to the epicness that is Naruto 559!

    Well here goes my first comment, I think “The masked man” could still be Madara, I just think Zetsu has taken cells from both Madara and the 1st Hokage and made one being.

  13. SPOILER ALERT!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/72986-Naruto-560-Spoiler-Pics-Summaries

    OMG!!!!!! If you think 559 is epic? Wait til we see 560! lol EPICNESS AND AWESOMENESS to come in 560!!

    Killer Bee VS Tobi and Itachi VS Kabuto!! :D:D:D

  14. Bad news is it’s still pending.. 😥 LMAO! But still it would be awesome to see big time powerful character in the upcoming chapter. 😀

  15. @yoursmalldad

    Welcome to WRA. You have a strange username, but hey, we’re all strange here. @___@

    @Pisbolman

    *spoiler alert*

    It seems the first spoiler is fake. A verified spoiler is out and it seems quite different from the first one. It still sounds epic though, in fact, even better, because they’re focussing only on Madara in this next chapter, which I would prefer.

    If the chapter was as broken up as it sounded in the first spoiler, there would be very little focus and there would be too many battles happening simultaneously.

  16. http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560 new chapter, and its epic.

  17. what the….!?

  18. It’s out at mangastream now as well for anyone who prefers to read it there.

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73851290/1

  19. Sephiroth used Meteor!

    It was was Super Effective!!!

  20. Well, that was most certainly epic. It also proves one thing for certain. The Rinnegan is more powerful than the sharingan, just as Jiraiya originally stated.

    The question now is, if Madara was able to advance his Sharingan to the Rinnegan, did he need Hashirama’s power to do it, or did his eyes simply become so powerful that they naturally evolved to the Rinnegan by themselves?

    It seems Madara is also overwhelmingly powerful with his Rinnegan, even more powerful than Nagato was by the way things are looking. Maybe that’s because his Rinnegan is natural whereas Nagato’s was artificial. I think this chapter raised more questions than it gave answers. I really do hope we find out more in the next chapter.

    WHY KISHI!?!? WHY MUST YOU LEAVE US IN SUSPENSE!?!?!

    *Splodes from epic cliffhanger*

  21. i wonder what kabuto means when he said that he resurrected him to a state even more advanced than he was in his prime,so kabuto somehow modified that madara to have the rinnegan or he madara already had it,and i wonder if he possessed the rinnegan when he fought against the first hokage…i really think we never saw the full power of the first hokage because madara is definitly more powerfull than nagato ever was

  22. s’ok//

    does anyone here feel that when Naruto is in real Kyuubi 4 tails mode fighting Orochimaru, that he was devastatingly more powerful and destructive than he is at his top shape with Sage or new 9 Tails Chakra modes..

    a part of me is waiting for that time to come but wondering if it ever will be a bigger part of the story rather than the lack of it..

    the Kyuubi itself is a major character in the story, but there is so little story time with hearing anything from it.. i would of thought perhaps Naruto could have been taught the histories from the Kyuubi.. but never once did that happen unless you include the time when the Kyuubi told Sasuke about Madara, but that was it..

    so now we learnt the Rinnenegan is the evolved form of the Sharingan.

    so perhaps the eyes that Madara gave Nagato, were his, and they evolved into the Rinnegans.. which is possible now that we know.. it is possible.. lol.. so Madara takes Izuna’s eyes and they evolve to form the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, his eyes, put into an Uzumaki, can evolve into the Rinnegans..

    OMG!!! so what if Sharingans were implanted into Naruto?? would he become 2 of the 6 Sages of 6 paths?!?!

    im confused to all hell!!!

    so if that happened then perhaps, Tobi who is really Izuna, was always searching for new Sharingan eyes as his were given to Madara, who kept his for Nagato, and replaced izuna’s with a random pair of extra Sharingan eyes.. then he becomes Tobi and searches for all the Sharingan eyes..

    oi.. now the Tsuchikage is all worried about his knowledge of Madara.. will Gaara regain control of the 1 Tail?? i miss that crazy voice of his in the anime.. so Kabuto admits to being a lower commander than Tobi.. that is not what i thought was his deal this entire time. i thought he had his own agenda and was using Tobi..

    oi.. what the hell?? so’k the leftovers list of the power hitters:
    • the Jinchuurikis
    • Tobi
    • Madara
    • Muu
    •Zetsu
    •Kabuto
    •Sasuke
    •Chiyo
    •Kimimaro
    •1-7 tailed beasts

    vs

    • Naruto
    • Gaara
    • a few nameless Jounins who can use the different types of chakra
    • the Hokage
    • the Raikage
    • the Tsuchikage
    • the Mizukage
    • Kirrabee
    • Rampaging Kakashi
    • Sai

    did i miss anyone?? the rest have proven their worthlessness.. the Sakura, Ino, Shika, Kiba.. etc were just filler.. oi

    ok so who is fighting who.. who is going to live and who dies??

    outside of Edo zombies.. i want the Mizukage chick, the Tsuchikage Kirrabee, Kabuto to die.

    the end.

    -spill7

  23. @kan-

    Sephiroth had straight white hair.. Kabuto has straight white hair.

    Cloud had blonde spikey hair.. Naruto has blonde spikey hair.

    -spill7

  24. @Dan

    Well, firstly, Madara said that he acquired the Rinnegan just before his death. So, it wasn’t Kabuto who gave it to him, considering he already had it just before he died.

    What you really need to ask yourself is, when did he die? If he knew Nagato, then that means he couldn’t have died against Hashirama, which also means he didn’t have the Rinnegan during that battle seeing as how he only acquired it right before his death.

    Also, it’s hard to tell how powerful Hashirama Senju was. We know that his wife, Mito, was also involved in the battle with Madara to some degree and that they managed to take control of the Kyuubi from Madara during the battle and Mito sealed it within herself. So, you could say it became a two-on-one battle at that point, which may be why Madara lost on the first place.

    Now, as for the secrets of Madara’s body, that notion certainly suggests that Madara’s body is abnormal in some way. It’s even possible that it was modified prior to his death, or that he is not a pure-blooded Uchiha in the first place. Perhaps one of Madara’s parents was an Uzumaki or a Senju, which might explain why, even as an Uchiha, he was able to develop his Sharingan to the point of evolving it into the Rinnegan. Unfortunately, any such theories are purely speculation at this point. We will most likely learn the truth in the next few chapters, provided everyone survives somehow. <_<

    @Spill

    "does anyone here feel that when Naruto is in real Kyuubi 4 tails mode fighting Orochimaru, that he was devastatingly more powerful and destructive than he is at his top shape with Sage or new 9 Tails Chakra modes.."

    Well, let's make a comparison between the two. During Naruto's four-tailed battle against Orochimaru, the latter was still able to fight with Naruto and survive quite effectively. He even managed to bear the brunt of Naruto's mini tailed beast bomb and he counter attacked afterwards as well. We can't really tell how that battle would have ended, but Orochimaru didn't seem to be afraid or overly concerned about Naruto's strength, so we can assume that despite Naruto's power, Orochimaru was still confident in his ability to fight on par with him.

    If we look at Naruto now, he is even faster than he was before – to the point where he could even evade the Raikage's quickest attack – and he has defeated Kage level shinobi who may be equal to Orochimaru in terms of strength. So, there is definitely not a decrease in power, although you could say that the power is more controlled now and less chaotic. 4-tails Naruto was very savage and basically let its power loose without so much as caring for how much destruction it caused. Sennin Kyuubi chakra form Naruto is in full control of his emotions and his jutsu and thus uses more focused attacks aimed at taking out his target directly, and not to just simply destroy everything in site. That's the biggest difference.

    Also, in your list of battle lineups, you forgot about MAITO GAI!!!!

  25. is it possible that Tobi is an Edo Tensei himself of Madara, as Kabuto states that Madara that he summoned is a complete version of himself greater then he is at his prime, meaning Tobi is the Edo Tensei of Madara’s prime..?? its not more far fetched theory than Tobi being Obito..

    -spill7

  26. Oh, and I am calling this now before the next chapter comes out. This will be the moment Naruto will learn to use the Bijuu Dama Rasengan and he will obliterate the comet falling out of the sky.

    It’s really the only way I can see anyone surviving the next chapter, to be honest. Lol.

    Also, once Madara sees Naruto in Kyuubi sennin mode, he might even reference that Naruto also has the power of the Rikudou Sennin and that the two of them are somehow connected. That may be when we learn the secret behind how Madara acquired the Rinnegan as well.

    That’s my guess anyway.

  27. @1010..

    i had first put in Mite Gai but took him out.. to me releasing the gates, is a limited.. its usage can kill the user so its not an always on type of power like lets say Gaara’s sand.. so to me.. his use is equal to Rock Lee.. who has no chakra ability.. the Jounins arent proving themselves to me much.. the let down of Kakashi with giant Zabuza Sword made it so that i dont see the older generation so worth the effort.. if i forgot anyone i would say it would be Yamato.

    -spill7

  28. epic chapter!

    for me the biggest question here right now is who is the guy behind the mask!…

    we know he cannot be madara.
    we so so far have not seen him use any Ms tech aka(amaterasu susanoo etc).
    we have seen him use time space justu via eye, aswell as izanagi.
    he most likely has an artificial body, probably made (or partly made) from a white zetzu plant as hinted before the danzo fight.

    in fact what we have seen from tobi, resembles the non uchiha sharingan use much more than it does the real thing.

    from this alone, it is safe to assume that tobi might only be remotely linked to the uchiha but doesn’t have! their attributes.

    i could imagine tobi being some sort of half dead leftover uchiha kept alive by his plant friend with a completly artificial body (former shell of himself). thus not having the necessary uchiha body to use the ems.

    what are your thoughts on this?

  29. @ spill obviously 4 tails beast mode naruto is superior to sennin naruto in terms of power. as we have seen during the resealing, naruto only took control of the white part of the kyubies power, leaving the huge black ball part untouched.

    somewhere in between these battle arcs naruto will probably have a little chit chat with the fox (chakra negotiations as mentioned by bee) for the remains of the foxes power, in exchange for a more active fox, possibly proposing a symbiotic style ala bee8tails.

  30. @Klokoller

    Your suggestion about Naruto negotiating with the fox to get the other half of his power is impossible, because the fact is that Minato only sealed half of the fox’s chakra into Naruto to begin with, and that was the Yang half.

    The other half, Minato sealed within himself and when he died, it was lost with him, so right now, it is sealed within the Death God himself and is inaccessible to anyone.

    This also means that even during his four tailed state, Naruto was never using the Kyuubi’s full power or the other half of his chakra to begin with, nor will he ever be able to unless he finds a way to somehow acquire the other half of it from mr Death himself. I also mentioned above how the Four Tailed version of Naruto’s Kyuubi mode is not necessarily more powerful. He only appeared to be more powerful because his power was chaotic and out of control. The Kyuubi’s hatred was simply content to destroy everything around it without any care for the consequences.

    Naruto in Sennin Kyuubi mode as he is now, is in full control of his emotions, and is therefor less inclined to simply go off on a rampage where he is destroying his environment and his allies simply because of reckless chakra release. His techniques are more focused and directed purely to take out his target, NOT to take out the entire battlefield with his target. This doesn’t mean he is less powerful now, it just means he is focusing his power better. Remember his training with Bee? He had to learn to hold the rocks without crushing them. So basically, he is putting that learning into practice and making sure he keeps his chakra under control at all times.

  31. WHHHHAAAAT !!! O_O

  32. i am all for a more active 9 tails fox.. if a tail can destroy a mountain, cant all 9 of them just smash the Meteor to bits??

    also.. is that a Meteor or can it be the Moon? i mean this is all for the “Moon’s Eye” or is it a Genjutsu??

    im leaning on the idea the Meteor is a Genjutsu.. or is that the power of the Rinnegan that Tobi is using from the power of the 6 Jinchuuriki’s 6 Paths?

    so overly confused.. i mean.. Sasuke and Itachi are now destined to get the Rinnegan.. possibly Kakashi too.. Naruto’s limitless chakra has hit a wall.. Kirrabee is talking a leak off in the woods.. Kabuto who controls Edo Madara now has control of one of the Sage of 6 Path’s God power is going to do what?? i mean there are a lot of useless ninja and then there are the white zetsus or filler characters.. they all die.. leaving my list above w00t!!

    -spill7

  33. @spill: You forgot Konohamaru. I just know he’s going to come out of nowhere and throw down a surprise rasenshuriken.

  34. Oh wow, this is so awesome! Uchiha Madara fighting with the Mangekyou Sharingan against a whole force of allied ninja and holding his own! Nice! Gaara, the Tsuchikage, and Naruto combining their efforts to put Madara down! Uh-oh, here comes the FRS! Now the moment I’ve been waiting for! Madara is going to pull out the EMS and give us a glimpse of its power!

    And…

    And…

    It’s a…

    Rinnengan…!?

    This is stupid.

    Let’s tally up the Rinnengan count. Nagato had it of course but he’s gone now. The masked man has it. 6 dead former Jinchuuriki have it. Oh, and of course Uchiha Madara has it. Duh, of course he does!

    This super legendary rare doujutsu has been possessed by 8 different people in this war alone! Don’t even get me started on all the Sharingans flying around.

    You can’t honestly tell me Uchiha Madara having the RINNENGAN didn’t make anyone else faceplant. Lol, come on! Let’s get it out of the way and acknowledge that in a contrived way this all makes sense because all the doujutsus are descended from the Rikudou Sennin, but guess what? I bet you we won’t be seeing Neji and Hinata walking around with Sharingan’s (A.K.A. evolved Byakugans) by the end of the war because not only would that be extra stupid but the 3rd comparatively puny doujutsu doesn’t even deserve to be in the same category as the other 2 anymore.

    It makes me yearn for the days of Part 1 when Neji was considered on par with Sasuke. Now the Byakugan is like the ugly black sheep of the 3 Brother Doujutsu family. It can’t evolve. It doesn’t have any amazing jutsus. It’s just…the Byakugan. At first we thought the 3 doujutsus were standalones and had a simple hierarchy. Rinnengan > Sharingan > Byakugan. Now, not only can the Sharingan level up to EMS but it can evolve into the RINNENGAN, so is the Byakugan even connected anymore? Yes, yes it is.

    It’s like Pikachu evolving into a Raichu and…wait, there’s something before the Pikachu? Yes, it’s that’s randomly later added pathetic devolved form Pichu-thing that no one cares about and would rather have the Pickachu or Raichu. The only thing is, the Byakugan can’t change beyond its form, so it’s stuck in its Pichu phase. No Pikachu or Raichu for you Hyuuga Clan. You get nothing but Pichus.

    The Byakugan is put further back on the back burner and this super rare doujutsu isn’t so rare after all…why else is this stupid…? Oh yeah, Uchiha Madara has the RINNENGAN!!!! What else?

    This means Sasuke can get the Rinnengan, and no one wants that. The possibility that this could happen is enough unbearably stupid.

    Besides all that crap though it was really exciting chapter. Just this silly ending where Kishi bonked his head and decided to throw in another Rinnengan into the story for extra measure.

  35. Meh, I know the chapter is epic and all but I’m kinda disappointed. All we got was another powerup for the Uchihas and Nagato lost his badassness after Madara’s Rinnegan powers.
    Also, it seems as though Naruto, Sasuke and Itachi aren’t the strongest shinobi anymore, which is kinda uncool too.
    The one interesting thing was however the thing you guys mentioned about the Uzumaki body evolving the Sharingan into the Rinnegan, which is awesome.
    Also, I can’t help but wonder, could Naruto’s Ninetails-mode be the body of the younger brother? I mean he shares some similarities with the So6P.

    And you’re so right. Naruto promised Kyuubi to talk things over, when is he going to do that? God, I swear, all Naruto would have to do is ask the aeons old being living in his damn stomach and he would have more information at hand than anyone else, but nooooooo they just stand there and wait until Madara himself tells them something about his live.

  36. Oh, and Super, how in their right mind would evolve a pikachu in that fugly fat mouse thingy? I’m just sayin…

  37. I don’t know if anyone has seen the 2nd video yet since I haven’t been on here that much but here it is…again?

  38. @Super

    You are jumping the gun a bit there, don’t you think?

    Firstly, we don’t know how Madara got the Rinnegan, or whether or not it is even an evolution of his sharingan or just him combining his powers with Hashirama’s.

    We also don’t know whether or not Tobi’s Rinnegan and Madara’s are one and the same or not. There’s a large possibility that it was Madara who originally awakened the Rinnegan by using Hashirama’s power in conjunction with his own Sharingan. That may have been the same Rinnegan that was consequently given to Nagato and that Tobi took back after Nagato’s death and is using right now.

    This means that there is only one Pair of Rinnegan essentially going around, to be honest. Obviously, however, when someone is resurrected with Edo Tensei, they may still have the body they had before death, hence why Nagato, Madara and Itachi managed to retain their eyes even though they were or may have been taken after death. This hypothesis still means that there is only one actual pair of Rinnegan eyes at the most that exist right now if you exclude those that exist in the bodies recreated by Edo Tensei.

    As for Tobi’s six paths of Pein, we already know that when the Paths of Pein are created, they share the doujutsu of their controller. So, that doesn’t mean they all have extra Rinnegans now or that more were somehow created, it just means they are sharing Tobi’s eyes, just like the six paths that Nagato controlled shared his Rinnegan.

    Don’t you think it would be a bit better to find out what is actually going on before you start ranting about how stupid something is when it may not even be the way you’ve just described? X____x

  39. Oh, as for the EMS, I doubt they would spoil it and show how powerful it is until Sasuke actually uses it. Sasuke’s grand entrance into this war wouldn’t be half as grand if we already knew what we were going to see when that time comes.

    But you know what would really be funny? If Sasuke arrives and chops the meteor in half and stands there all cool and stuff and says “I’m more special than you are.”

  40. My bet is Tobi was the one who defeated Madara who was the one to kill Nagato´s parents.

  41. dear Tenrai Senshi

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-499/page014.html

    this is what im referring to. all i meant with that statement was that there is still some power left in the fox that is not yet taken by naruto.

  42. @Klokoller

    Hm. I thought you were referring to the other half of the fox’s chakra, but I see I may have misread what you were saying. I apologize for that.

    In either case, I’m not certain if that chakra sphere the fox was creating actually represents different parts of the his power. I think that was just what little was left that the Fox had and even though it was only little relative to his full power, it was still great enough to impress Naruto.

    But, the Fox’s physical appearance suggests that he was highly weakened, so even that power he was showing was probably only a small portion of what it would be like if the Fox was at full strength or even at half strength.

    In any case, I hope I didn’t come across as to strong in my last reply, because I have a feeling I did for some reason. lol. Don’t take me too personally, because I’m always fired up for a debate and I get carried away sometimes. X___x

  43. hMm, sorry maybe i was a bit too blunt there. awesome breakdowns btw! keep it going.

  44. @Tenrai: The chapter basically states that the Sharingan can evolve into the Rinnengan.

    “What awaits when you progress beyond the Sharingan…”

    -Kabuchimaru

    Then Madara says he awakened those eyes shortly before his death.

    Even if it was helped by a combination of Hashirama’s powers it still evolved from the Sharingan. I won’t even try guessing how Madara would go about combining his powers with Hashirama’s, if that theory turns out to be true, but I don’t believe he’d go the Tobi route. Now here it is some 80(?) years later and Sasuke with his EMS is about to clash with Naruto and all his Senjuness. Throw up some red flags and someone stop it before it’s too late.

    As for all the Rinnengans I miscounted the first time. It’s actually 9 if you count the 6 Jinchuurikis, Nagato, Tobi, and Uchiha Madara. 9 different people with the Rinnegan but it would actually be 3 different people if you take away the 6 Paths. You’re right about the number though. It’s not as many as I thought, especially if you assume they all came from the same person. I’m still simply dumbfounded that Uchiha Madara has the Rinnengan.

    Barring my complaint with how many Rinnengans are floating around this war, it was a minor complaint in the overall picture, it doesn’t change the fact that this twist is still quite stupid to me. The mere fact that Uchiha Madara has the Rinnengan is enough to give it that quality. Every time I say it, it makes me chuckle. Then shake my head.

    As for the EMS I think it would have been great if Madara gave us a taste of it. The first Uchiha to ever awaken it who better than him to show how it off than him?

  45. @spill

    Regarding your first long post….Kabuto admitted to being “his” assistant, NOT Tobis underling. He may have been referring to Orochimaru, as on the same page he refers to “his”, orochimaru, in the research done to decode the writing on the tablets.

    If what I said is true, then there’s a connection between orochimaru and madara that we all missed and could explain much of the things left in question. Orochimaru DID have an affinity towards experimenting extensively with forbidden jutsu and immortality etc etc.

    Thoughts anyone?

  46. @mantis..

    go back and re-read the chapter.. so you understand the context. what Madara and Muu were discussing and the intro of Kabuto taking thru Muu was only about the person behind the mask, or more directly.. they were discussing Tobi, not Orochimaru.

    i know it feels great to make up context you feel is your own translation of what you read, but to argue against fact using your opinion just doest work for you.

    -spill7

  47. i think whoever has the rinnegan can choose the next person in whom it appears…madara (tobi) at one point refers to himself as the second of the six paths and refers to nagato as the third of the six paths so this lends me to believe that is the reason madara knew of nagato and claimed to give him the rinnegan

  48. @spill

    It’s you who needs to reread and not make assumptions. First, madara thlught it was the work of “him”. Then he learned it was kabuto, “his” assistant. And then another reference to “his” on the same page. Both nagato and orochimaru were mentioned in that conversation. But no direct reference solidly stating it was Tobi he was speaking of. Don’t be too sure, kishi has been playing with us with identities. Take Tobi, previously aka madara. And that was directly told to us it was him, and look how that turned out.

  49. @spill

    To make clear. The “who is the masked man?” comment/convo was between the old kage and wind user, NOT madara and mummy kage/kabuto. All we KNOW is they used “his” in reference. No names, no physical descriptions.

    Think about how this has gone. First we though nagato made akatsuki, self had the rinnengan, and was the leader of said organization. Not true. I’m betting its not as simple as it being Tobi, seeing as nagato was referenced directly by madara.

  50. @mantis.

    Orochimaru has not been an antagonist in the story for over 100 chapters. if you are asking someone to go back and re-read the story looking for him as any leading story focus they will not find it.

    in this chapter, it is the identity of Tobi as the focus of the story.. not Orochimaru.

    you opinion is your thing.. but dont change up facts of what the story is just because you read it that way. if you feel it is Orochimaru.. all the power to you..

    the focus of the chapter is the identity of Tobi.. not someone else..

    what possible connection would Orochimaru have to that moment?

    -spill7

  51. @spill

    Correct me if im wrong, but isn’t kabuto using orochimarus energy and foghting for control? Much like how sasuke lost control or suppression or whatever and orochimaru came out. I’m just saying that its not as simple as you’re making it to be.

    I’ll take your silence on my point about the other points as u reread the chapter and realised it prolly isn’t that clear cut.

  52. @mantis

    countless times, Kabuto, explains that he has not only absorbed Orochimaru into him, he has surpassed all that Orochimaru could not.

    you might be right.. so might i.. i don’t care really if you are or are not.. you should still go back and re-read.. unless you don’t enjoy it.. i re-read the story as much as possible..

    you can stand on what ever platform you think, and decide..

    in terms of my silence.. are you really trying to make an argument? your points to me weren’t worth any hassle and still isn’t.

    you can try to retort with something.. i don’t really care though.. your stance is weak.. so your arguments are dull.

    perhaps it is orochimaru.. or perhaps not.

    -spill7

  53. It’s not a dull argument, and im not saying its orochimaru involved or whatever. What im saying is kabuto partnered with Tobi, he didnt become his assistant. He was orochimarus assisstant. And kabuto didn’t make any indication he was speaking about Tobi. I think kishi made that unclear for a rreason. Thats all Im saying. I’m not questioning your fanboy-ism.

    *ducks to avoid Tobi doll whizzing through the air.*

  54. Lol. Well, at the very least, if nothing else we can say that this chapter is one that is definitely worthy of discussion, seeing as how it has already brought up a few debates and theories as it is.

    One thing I am glad about is the fact that this chapter also showed that Susanoo isn’t the perfect defense many people made it out to be. The fact that Gaara had already figured out a way to bypass it says a lot and, to be quite frank, if it weren’t for the Rinnegan and Preta Path’s absorption abilities, Madara would have been the newest victim of Naruto’s Rasenshuriken.

    I think that says a lot for Naruto, Gaara and the Tsuchikage’s strength, in that they were able to make Madara sweat a bit there.

    Lol. Now that we know that Gaara has found a way to bypass Susanoo, we should have a Gaara vs Itachi debate just for good measure. Kukukukuku…

    *Feels like he is opening a can of worms.* 😄

  55. Still, it would be kinda cool to see Orochimaru as the mastermind behind everything to become truly immortal. Does anyone else miss the times where you knew that tge worst you could meet out there was him?
    He was a great villain, except for the pedophile thing. And the vomit habits. And the tongue…
    Alright, maybe Tobi isn’t that bad :{

  56. On an Orochimaru note… Kabuto noted that he was going around collecting the power of Orochimaru from folk with the cursed seal to make himself (and Edo Tensei) stronger. That was the fate of Anko (so far). He also wanted a zetzu to play with. I wonder if he’s trying to make a new Orochimaru (in the Goo Madara style), so he can finally get rid of that embarrassing prehensile snake tail and squee at the resurrection of his former lover^h^h^h^h^hmaster.

  57. I have to admit… @super I agree, just thinking that Sasuke? Can get the rinnegan pisses me off like really, but then again, Kishi might have it as “physical power vs mental power” Where he will argue that mental will win, or “Eyes vs body” since the senju inherited the sage’s will power as the uchiha inherited his physical power… but it makes sense even if i dont want it to… i mean the sage gave the uchiha his eyes and his other son of the senju his body(chakra?) or what have you…

  58. “Your suggestion about Naruto negotiating with the fox to get the other half of his power is impossible, because the fact is that Minato only sealed half of the fox’s chakra into Naruto to begin with, and that was the Yang half.

    The other half, Minato sealed within himself and when he died, it was lost with him, so right now, it is sealed within the Death God himself and is inaccessible to anyone.”

    That’s not entirely accurate. Remember Jiraiya (or was it Minato) said that while the seal on Naruto weakened, Kyuubi was getting more powerful? I can’t remember where but I definitely recall Kyuubi getting it’s chakra back automatically over time. Which makes sense, considering chakra is something that can be replenished just like stamina and the fact that Bijuu’s can’t be killed entirely.

    @ mantisguy,

    Spill is right. Madara is talking about Tobi.
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73851290/3
    First he says; “this is HIS doing” and “things don’t seem to be going according to plan very well”.

    Then he says “That someone was able to revive me into this state”
    He’s clearly talking about two different persons.

    Then Kabuto comes on the radio and explains he is ‘HIS’ assistant.
    That his is related to the his Madara spoke off. Seeing as Orochimaru is no longer around and therefor Kabuto can’t be Orochimaru’s assistant that only leaves Tobi who Kabuto is assisting, although for personal gain.

  59. As for the Rinnegan.

    I think they can only come from the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan being implanted into an Uzumaki. Why else would Nagato have received the Rinnegan…

    Bubbletition;

    1st Bubble: I heard Captain Pickles will no longer be doing chapter breakdowns.

    2nd Bubble: That means no more super perverted jokes or Pokémon references! Hooray!!

    Caption: Just because the Master has left us doesn’t mean us disciples won’t continue his mission…
    The way I see it, there’s nobody to keep us in check now! Mwuahahahahaha!!!

  60. (Yes people, the floodgates are open now)

    Bubbletition;

    Chiyo: What in the world happened to you?

    Kimimaro: I got boned.

    Captain: Pretty hard I’d say.

    Chiyo: Let me guess, you ate fish again.

    Kimimaro: It’s amazing how those Gyarados can fit into a tiny ball but not into my stomach.

    Caption: Don’t try to use logic, there is none.

  61. Theory… okay i take that back, the eternal sharingan is as far as you can go, but like someone else said, combining the eternal sharingan with a senju user, the senju user has the ability to awaken the rinnegan… Naruto is going to gain the rinnegan when overwhelmed by Tobi and Sasuke is going to give him his eyes, and super naruto! LOL… but yeah thats like sonic and shadow mixing both of their super abilities in the sonic games to become ultra sonic…

  62. any1 ever thought that maybe Tobi IS the 10tailed demon???

  63. and there is proof of the death of Izuna…. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Izuna_Uchiha

  64. @nastradoma he could have easily faked his death im sure the databook can be changed

  65. I kind of like the idea of Naruto teaching Kyuubi how to meditate for sage energy. That way, Naruto has an eternally recharging sage energy battery in his belly.

  66. as for the discussion about “his assistent” i guess mangareader makes it a little clearer that kabuto means Tobi http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/560/2

    Any possibility that Tobi is the elder son of the sage of the six paths?
    Izuna might be a possibility aswell though..

  67. @ Nastradoma Ponasus – @___@ thats a long name!

    Just cause Izuna is “dead” doesn’t mean he is still, maybe Madara when he gained the Rinnegan was able to revive his brother via the same tech he wanted Nagato to use 😉

  68. Read this O_O

    http://noctusinfinity.deviantart.com/art/Naruto-chapter-560-264440634?q=boost%3Apopular%20max_age%3A72h%20Naruto&qo=227

    under the picture lol

  69. http://unknow-chan.deviantart.com/art/Naruto-meme-crack-chapter-559-263813935?q=boost%3Apopular%20max_age%3A168h%20Naruto&qo=38

  70. I told you all that the person inside the coffin was madara and now i have been proven right!!!! YOSH!!!

  71. “and there is proof of the death of Izuna….”

    There is also proof Shisui died at Itachi’s hands (picture of Shisui drowned in the river). ^__^

    “combining the eternal sharingan with a senju user, the senju user has the ability to awaken the rinnegan…”

    Than why did Uzumaki Nagato have the Rinnegan… I know the Uzumaki are a distant relative to the Senju but if that’s the reason than the same applies to the Uchiha, seeing as the Uchiha and Senju are bloodline descendents of two brothers.
    I still think Uzumaki blood/chakra is needed to awaken the Rinnegan. The Uzumaki were notorious for their vast amount of chakra and their longevity. Precisely the attributes the Rinnegan wielders seem to possess.

  72. @Baron

    It’s not just about being relatives or having blood relations, it is about the combination of the sage’s yin and yang power that he split between his two sons. He gave his spiritual power and his eyes (yin) to the oldest and his vitality and life force (yang) to his youngest. The rinnegan is apparently a culmination of both of those powers, the lifeforce and the spiritual power (yin and yang). In essense, this is how Tobi described it himself. So, even if the Uchiha are related to the Senju distantly by blood, they still don’t have the life force or vitality side of the sages power (the yang) necessary to awaken the Rinnegan. I think that’s where the whole “combining the eternal sharingan with a senju user, the senju user has the ability to awaken the rinnegan…” argument came from and it is quite a valid argument when you consider the technical element behind how the Rinnegan works. I’m not sure how Madara would have been able to awaken the Rinnegan on his own, but I am assuming he must have aquired the Yang power of the Sage’s youngest son in some form to do it.

    As for why the Uzumaki were able to awaken the Rinnegan, it would most likely require the same procedure, only in reverse where they somehow gain access to the Yin powers of the sage’s oldest son. I don’t think it is possible to awaken the true power of the Sage of the Six Paths without both his Yin and Yang chakra, so I really don’t see either side simply awaikening it on their own. Unless there is some factor we are not aware of yet.

    In any case, on another note, when you think about how the Uzumaki are described, they actually fit the description of the Sage’s youngest son better than the senju do in my opinion.

    The Sage gave his youngest son the power of his vitality, chakra and life force, and the Uzumaki are known for their vitality, long lives and their massive stamina reserves (as seen with Naruto and even Nagato).

    Although they are said to be distant relatives of the senju, who’s to say they aren’t even more closely related to the Sage’s youngest son than the Senju are? They may be the direct descendants of the Sage’s youngest son while the Senju might be more of an offset to that for all we know. (Kinda like how the Hyuuga seem to be a sub-branch of descendants split off from the Uchiha).

    The reason I believe that is the case is because of Naruto’s sennin fox chakra mode. He definitely appears to have the body and appearance of the sage, even down to the hair and the tomoe marks around his neck, and he also shows the life force and vitality described to have been given to the sage’s youngest son. (The amount of lifeforce that radiates from him even causes the Zetsu’s to turn into trees and affects mokuton).

    The only thing Naruto is missing is the eye powers of the sage which was given to the oldest son and his descendants, the Uchiha. We’ve never seen anything within the Senju clan that comes that close in similarity to how the sage’s youngest son’s power is described. The Uzumaki seem to fit the glove better than the senju do, but seeing as how the Senju are also related by blood to the sage’s youngest son, combining their power with the Uchiha to acquire the Rinnegan is also possible.

  73. @Ace Gamer

    I think just about everyone guessed there was a good possibility it was Madara in the last coffin. That is what I believed from the moment I first read the chapter actually.

    I just find it ammusing now how so many people are now trying to pull off the whole “I told you so” snag on something that was pretty much a given from the offset, as if to try claim some sort of glory for coming up with an accurate theory that everyone else had already guessed was the case in the first place in any case. Lol.

    P.S. Where the hell have you been!?!?! *eats Ace for being ghostly* <__<

  74. @ Tenrai,

    The conditions required for awakening the Rinnegan have never been explained by Tobi. He only mentioned the need for the Senju if someone wants to use Izanagi.

    I agree that it’s a good possibility Senju cells are required to awaken the Rinnegan but as you yourself point out the Uzumaki resemble the youngest son of the Sage much closer than the Senju with their longevity, huge chakra reserve and in Kushina’s case ‘special chakra’. Combine that with Nagato ‘receiving’ the Rinnegan from Tobi and Madara mentioning Nagato as if he thought Nagato was the one who revived him makes me believe an Uzumaki is needed to awaken the Rinnegan.
    Why would Tobi use Nagato to either awaken or grow or for whatever other reason he gave Nagato the Rinnegan when he had Hashirama’s DNA ever since Madara fought Hashirama? That doesn’t make sense to me.

    Perhaps all three ‘paths’ are required to activate the Rinnegan. The Uchiha’s Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as the basis, the Senju’s chakra control as the tool and the Uzumaki’s vast and special amount of chakra to transform the eyes into the Rinnegan.

  75. @Baron

    Lol. I think right now it’s anyone’s guess really. There are so many unknowns in the manga right now that it’s become very mysterious all over again. Lol.

  76. Of course Madara was referring to Tobi, seeing on the previous page, the drag named Temari yelled “Then who is the masked man!” and that caught Madara’s attention referring to the “…” as in he began to think about the masked man and then said “So this is HIS duty” obviously -.-

  77. Well, matching the above comments of Senju + uchiha I think well see a retrospective with Madara raping Tobi (yes,tobi was a woman back then). Then Tobi develops Stockholm syndrome. Then we cut off to a scene with Madara saying to Nagato “im your father”. Nagato faints hitting his head. He forgets all about his parents. When Madara dies choking with foreign body (some say a chicken bone, some say a pretzel, I say Orochimaru lended him Kusanagi), Tobi is so upset she becomes a transgender Madara. Thus Tobi/Madara and Rinnengan are explained.

  78. I forgot to mention that Tobi is an Uzumaki who was lost when she fell from a removal van when her parents where moving to the sand village to make , quote, “exceptional pottery that will last forever” as they passed through the rain village to collect water.

  79. I still think that the man behind the mask is not Uchiha. 😀 😀 😀

  80. I am going to stick with the obito theory til the end. I know it’s unlikely to impossible but such puny things such as logic won’t stop a true fanboy 😉

    Does anyone else think that there could still be an arc after the war? Naruto has still got to talk to Kyuubi and I would really want to see him claim his heritage. Trip to whirlpool country kishi please?

  81. coolbeans is back in da house yo

  82. Hey guys. Sorry to say this, but I don’t think I’ll be able to get a breakdown out for last week’s chapter. I’ve been as busy as hell, so I’ll try to do it tomorrow maybe, or I’ll just do a double when the new chapter comes out.

    I am really sorry. T____T

    P.S. *eats Coolbeans*

  83. I still have reason to believe Tobi is the ten tailed demon itself…

  84. I still have reason to believe the ten tailed demon is Tobi himself… Call it far-fetched but it has MORE evidence than the Obito theory -.- (WAY MORE) and it is more evident than the Madara’s brother Izuna theory… most definately not Shisui..

  85. Wow! Thanks for the info Tenrai Shenshi! Much Appreciated!

  86. no worries tenten we totally understand.

    i’m sorry but how exactly could tobi be the ten-tailed beast? i just cannot see even the possibility of it. please explain?

  87. p.s. where’s my buddy eugen?

  88. Actually, Tobi being the Ten Tailed beast is an interesting idea for a theory. Lol.

    When you think about it, The SOTSP split the Juubi’s chakra into nine parts and spread it across the world, thus creating the nine Bijuu that currently exist. He then apparently sealed the body of the Juubi in the moon.

    Now, what we can say for certain hearing that legend, is that the Juubi’s body was not split into pieces, only its chakra was. The Juubi itself was sealed away. What we have to ask ourselves is, why was the body sealed away, unless it was still alive somehow and thus still a threat? We’ve seen in the Kyuubi’s case that even after Naruto took all of it’s chakra, it still retained a small margin and was able to survive. In the same sense, the Juubi could have still survived the loss of its own chakra as well.

    Perhaps the Juubi somehow escaped its imprisonment and is now looking for a way to “become whole” again. Even Tobi said, when asked by Kakashi what his goal was, that it was to become “complete” and that would fit with the notion that the Juubi is trying to become what it once was before by trying to reclaim its own power back again. This also might explain why Tobi keeps mentioning that he is a “shell of his former self”.

    We also know that when a Jinchuuriki uses a bijuu’s chakra, that Bijuu saps the Jinchuuriki’s chakra in it’s place. That could also explain how Tobi attained the Rinnegan or even how he might have been able to adopt a human form somehow. Well, that’s just a possibility and although it is quite far fetched and unlikely, it’s also very interesting at the same time. @___@

  89. man i am almost convinced that tobi might be the ten tails but damnit i also think gedo mazo is the juubi. after all, they summon a statue and seal bijuu in it and poof! a eye goes open. also when nagato summoned it, it needed chakra/fat and drained nagato to a piece of skin in order to work, also gedo mazo can obviously only be summoned by a rinnegan user, which supposedly belongs to so6p only. so im going out on a limb here and say the myth that tobi is juubi is busted! sorry 😉

  90. I forgot the part of who sealed the Juubi in the moon?

  91. PS. im also gonna jump on the bandwagon and say, i called tobi=obito first!!!! im telling you guys it that half blind goggle wearing bastard….urgh

    2 more points that suggests that tobi is obito is when he took of his mask somewhere, think it was during his chat with kisame, you could se lines beneath his eye which usually suggests in mangas bad eyesight or weak or tired eyes which is a thing obito struggled with.

    and then less relevant info is his preffered use of the colour orange much like obito

  92. oh yes and also each important team has a rotten egg, like team 7 and jiraya’s team and sarutobis team technically and so obviously for team kakashi it must be obito!

  93. ok ten i admit that makes more sense than i originally had thought, but like you said..i still think it’s pretty farfetched

  94. so it’s probably been mentioned here too, but there’s the theory about him being another form of zetsu. the data book states that he’s from the konoha but no one in konoha knows who he is so he must be from before their time. so if he was made with senju DNA and somehow given 2 personalities, whose to say the creator didn’t make another version. now this is all under the assumption that the original madara made zetsu but maybe tobi was made with madara’s memories and chakra. but a parasitic form that can take over people’s bodies dead or alive.

    we’ve seen tobi lose limbs and bleed 2 different colors without it causing him any visible pain so maybe the answer is as simple as that. as long as he has that zetsu material he can replace limbs he’s lost and since the body isn’t his there is no pain. plus it also gives him a reason for having a mangekyo sharingan. if he was to take over a uchiha’s body, with his memories and chakra signature, he could easily evolve his eyes to mangekyo again and if it’s his chakra, then the results of the evolution would be the same.

    another fact that gives this theory more credibility is that we never seen tobi use EMS which makes sense since that requires Izuna’s eyes and if tobi were to take someone else’s mangekyo, then it would become a different EMS.

    Now this is all pretty presumptuous but this is just a tweaked version of another person’s theory who also goes by Eugen.

    @Eugen are you the same Eugen from NM?

  95. @Bakakage

    Lol. I am afraid you are a bit far down the line when it comes to calling Tobi = Obito first. I think all of us are actually. 😛

    @Pisbolman

    It was the Sage of the Six Paths who sealed the Juubi’s body into the moon which he created specifically to act as its prison, apparently.

  96. I am going to break down MY reason as to why Tobi is the ten tailed beast
    1) If you haven’t noticed, the 10-tailed beast HAS a rinnegan/sharingan hybrid eye… I think the sage of six paths got the power from HIM when he captured the beast (There really is no confirmation that the sage had the eyes before fighting the 10 tailed beast)
    2) Tobi stated that he GAVE Nagato the rinnegan, i can only see someone that owns something to just give it out
    3) He had connections with Madara who also gained the rinnegan BEFORE his death
    4) He seems to not be able to cast jutsu besides that doujutsu izanagi (No power)
    5) He said he wants to become complete AGAIN (means he was complete before)
    6) His new mask resembles the juubi’s eye, and even though he may have read the monument with the history, i’m sure it didn’t have pictures on it so how did he know what it looked like?
    7) his body seems fake, ripped off plenty of times, but all you see it liquid.
    8) He wears that special suit.
    9) He uses a technique in his right eye to warp space, and has an alternate dimentions
    10) He apparently does not have the mangekyou sharingan because he never used it.

  97. @Tenrai

    Thanks. 😀 Someone is claiming the pioneering comment/theory of Tobi=Obito. LOL 😀 but I still think that it’s not from Uchiha. I will stick to my theory that he’s from Uzumaki/Senju clan.. 😀

  98. @Nastradoma Ponasus you forget when he took of his mask and actually looked like a man and nowhere near the sotsp (eyes anyone) who I imagine would be the appearance he/she/it would resemble.

  99. http://forum.mangastream.com/showthread.php?t=26657

    Spoilers @____@

  100. SPOILER!!!!

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/73137-Naruto-561-Spoiler-Pics-and-Summaries

    :O

  101. @nikeairforce03
    Why would Tobi have to resemble the sotsp? I said he was the 10tailed demon… but even still, you don’t know what the 10 tailed demon can do, Tobi is doing some ocular move that warps space, and apparently no one knows how to do that. That apparently isn’t even the mangekyou sharingan’s power since the mangekyou is never active when using the jutsu… He cannot be Obito because he apparently given the rinnegan to Nagato and Nagato is older than Minato (naruto’s father) who trained Obito, Kakashi, and Rin.. so the Obito theory is SHOT… how is Nagato older? Because he was the first that Jiraiya trained, before Jiraiya trained Minato. Even if they are the same age, Nagato is far older than Obito was…

  102. @Nastradoma Ponasus You, SIR, are my new IDOL and I vow to your almighty intelligence. At last someone who does a timeline regarding Obito!!!!!!!!!!!
    *High Five!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    :33333333333333333333333333333333333333333
    10 tailed beast = Tobi .

  103. “I am going to break down MY reason as to why Tobi is the ten tailed beast
    1) If you haven’t noticed, the 10-tailed beast HAS a rinnegan/sharingan hybrid eye… I think the sage of six paths got the power from HIM when he captured the beast (There really is no confirmation that the sage had the eyes before fighting the 10 tailed beast)
    2) Tobi stated that he GAVE Nagato the rinnegan, i can only see someone that owns something to just give it out
    3) He had connections with Madara who also gained the rinnegan BEFORE his death
    4) He seems to not be able to cast jutsu besides that doujutsu izanagi (No power)
    5) He said he wants to become complete AGAIN (means he was complete before)
    6) His new mask resembles the juubi’s eye, and even though he may have read the monument with the history, i’m sure it didn’t have pictures on it so how did he know what it looked like?
    7) his body seems fake, ripped off plenty of times, but all you see it liquid.
    8) He wears that special suit.
    9) He uses a technique in his right eye to warp space, and has an alternate dimentions
    10) He apparently does not have the mangekyou sharingan because he never used it.”

    I can easily refute those 10 points.
    1. If you haven’t noticed, the Rinnegan is an evolution of the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. So there is no Rinnegan/Sharingan hybrid eye.
    Also, there hasn’t been any confirmation that the Sage gained the Rinnegan after becoming a jinchuuriki either. So that’s a point which works both ways ergo it is an invalid argument.
    2. Madara awakened the Rinnegan. If Tobi is Izuna (or any other powerful Uchiha) he would have been able to awaken the Rinnegan as well. So yeah that could suggest the Rinnegan was Tobi’s to begin with but it doesn’t mean the Rinnegan belongs to the Juubi.
    3. Izuna also had a very strong connection to Madara before Madara died.
    4. Apart from the Space time jutsu’s.
    5. Yes, his entire body is probably a prosthetic made from Zetsu goodness (clearly proving he is NOT Obito as Obito would only need one side of his body to be prosthetic). His face is unmistakably human though. No signs of Juubi monster madness there.
    6. His new mask represents his goal. The moon’s eye plan.
    7. Yes, creamy Zetsu goodness. For extra perverted individuals. Notice he ‘repaired’ himself before rescuing Sasuke from Kakashi and Naruto.
    8. True, probably a mechanical suit like Asura Path. That explains how he was able to block Suigetsu’s sword effortlessly. Just like Nagato blocked Bee with Asura Path. But is it a clue to him being Juubi? No. Other Bijuu’s don’t need armor or clothes or whatever to form a body. So I don’t see why the most powerful one of them all would.
    9. Has the Juubi been known to use that ability? Is Space Time jutsu unique in the manga? Two times no.
    10. Or we’ve never seen it. Have you ever seen his eye when he warps people/stuff? I haven’t. Before the scene where Itachi was confronted by the Uchiha police we’d never seen Itachi’s Mangekyou. That doesn’t mean he didn’t or couldn’t use it as he clearly could when attacking Kakashi with Tsukuyomi and escaping Jiraiya’s toad stomach jutsu with Amaterasu.

    And here’s a very important point for you.
    What about the part where Tobi explains he wishes to revive the Juubi to become it’s Jinchuuriki. If he is the Juubi, why would he bother trying to revive it or pretend to be doing so.
    Makes no sense.

    – Rain on your parade troll out –

  104. baron- ha^ thank you for saving me the trouble of responding to that

  105. @redbaron
    Sooo… Have you even seen the Juubi’s eye? I said that it LOOKED like a rinnegan sharingan hybrid if you go LOOK at it… i’m quite sure the power of the juubi is the rinnegan… I believe the sage made the ninja world AFTER defeating the juubi… creating ninjutsu and that of the sort. Izuna is dead, get over it, there is nothing more against it, he died in battle when going to war fully blind. He was posing as Uchiha Madara, i’m sure he wouldnt say “I am the juubi” after stating that he was madara… why does he want to revive the juubi when he could just have the 9 demons at his disposal? Why in the picture when he stated the “eye of the moon plan” the moon was replaced with the Juubi’s eye? Why does he want the body so bad? He said he was incomplete, TELL ME HOW IS HE INCOMPLETE??? I say he is incomplete because The sage removed his energy(chakra) and he stated he is merely a “shell” of his former self. Former? Means he was complete before… shell? His body, with no chakra Explain to me how Tobi lived that long… Hashirama didn’t live that long, Madara didn’t live that long. You are saying he has hashirama’s cells as if he granted him immortality, APPARENTLY he lived before Hashirama’s time… Tobi had connection with Madara who “awakened” the rinnegan, and he had connection with Nagato. Why did he have connections with everyone with the rinnegan? YES the juubi had a rinnegan/sharingan hybrid. it is NOT a hybrid but that is how i DESCRIBE it. I don’t feel like linking a picture so if you want to go see if for yourself GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND… go type in Juubi and they’ll show you right away -.-… Also with the power of the rinnegan and the bijuu was he able to acutally summon something. Did you ever see him actually fight? Even when faced against team kakashi he didn’t fight, he backed down from the fight against Kakashi and Naruto. Why was he refusing to “fight” all the time? He said he only came to “talk” to the kage saying he was hoping Sasuke would’ve weakened them for him. Why not do it himself? He didn’t have chakra at the time, he was incomplete, then he became “desperate” trying to gain what he could. The way Madara responded when he figured out who was behind it “This is HIS doing…” He recognized who it was because they said “The man with the mask” what does Izuna need a mask for? And as for the obito, Obito means “its unkown” in english from japanese translations… but if somehow Tobi has some kind of connection to Obito, it is probably his eye. Kakashi’s mangekyou creates a black hole, space ninjutsu, and Tobi uses space jutsu the same way but it isnt destructive like Kakashi’s is… sooo idk about that but that is just for those Obito people -.- SOME kind of connection to Tobi, but he surely isnt Tobi

  106. and LOL @nike 🙂 glad to have helped with the timeline

  107. @Dish

    Same here.. lol 😀 Again I still think that the man behind the mask is not from Uchiha.. lol 😀 I feel like broken record.. 😀 He’s from Uzumaki/Senju clan.. whew! soon we’re gonna find out.. 😀

  108. is naruto/bleach coming out this week?

  109. i think tobi is izuna how can it be the ten tailed beast? madara seems to have intimate knowledge of tobi saying “his doing” who else could he have known during his time alive.. not the ten tails…

  110. @RedBaron

    Just because it appears that Tobi’s whole body is made out of Zetsu cells, that doesn’t prove that he isn’t Tobi any more than it proves that he is Izuna.

    After all, there’s no reason to believe that Izuna would need Zetsu cells to construct a body for himself for any reason whatsoever, seeing as how we’ve never seen any evidence that his body was ever damaged or destroyed in the first place.

    Secondly, you’re suggesting that only the right side of Obito’s body was crushed. Although that was initially the case, I would like to remind you that shortly after Obito gave Kakashi his left eye, the remaining rock around him caved in and covered the rest of his body, meaning that it could have easily been damaged all over, not just on the right side.

    That attempt to disprove the Obito/Tobi theory is not enough, I am afraid. But you have other factors to work with to that end. I actually enjoy these debates. @__@

    I agree with some of your points on the Juubi argument though. It’s practically a given that the Sage had the Rinnegan before he sealed the Juubi inside himself. How else would he have created ninjutsu, life or even had the power to seal the Juubi in the first place if he didn’t have the Rinnegan?

    However, I don’t agree with your hypothesis that the Sharingan can simply evolve into the Rinnegan. Yin and Yang is needed for that and the Uchiha only have the Yin power of the Sage. They need the Yang power of either an Uzumaki or Senju to acquire the power of the Rinnegan.

    @Dricedt

    It will becoming out, but it is just a bit late. Expect to see it up within the next few hours, I believe.

  111. Anyway, I have reasons for believing that Tobi is not Izuna.

    1: Why would Izuna help Itachi wipe out the Uchiha clan? Izuna gave his eyes for the sole purpose of allowing his older brother to protect his clan, so him suddenly going out to destroy what he gave so much to protect doesn’t make sense.

    2: Why would Izuna try to create a Utopia? From his character profile, I’ve seen no evidence that would suggest any reasons as to why he would want to end all wars, especially when he and his brother, Madara, took pride in their strength and the battles they fought in. I just don’t see any motive for Izuna to wish for all wars to end.

    In saying that, however, there may be reasons that exist that we are not aware of yet. Tobi being Izuna is still a good possibility, but I still don’t believe he is. Call me crazy, but I still have a feeling it’s Obito.

  112. Wild Crazy Theory!… you have been warned.

    Tobi is the body of the Sage of the six paths that has been corrupted by and is now controlled by a part of the ten tails that he couldn’t expel when he created the 9 tailed beasts.

    As the Rikudō Sennin approached death he feared that the part of the Ryuubi that was still inside of him could take control, so he split the powers that it would need to recreate itself between his two sons in the hopes that it would keep it from ever happening.

    The problem though is that the powers themselves were tainted by the Ryuubi. The Eyes (Uchiha) with an intense hatred and craving for power, and the Body (Senju) with paranoia and suspicion. The more a person relied on the gift of the Rikudō Sennin the more they became tainted. Hence why the Uchiha, who regularly relied entirely on their eyes, became more tainted than the Senju who relied less (by comparison) on their gift.

    Once the Rikudō Sennin weakened enough for the Ryuubi to take over he was so close to death that it was all the Ten Tails could do to keep from dieing. Eventually he had to invent what we know as Zetsu in order to start replacing body parts that had died. This however caused him to lose much of the remaining power the Rikudō Sennin’s body had. This lead him to create the Akatsuki in order to manipulate world events so that he could regain the power to recreate itself by stealing the powers of Rikudō Sennin’s decedents.

    The Sharingan he has is not his own and was acquired along with all of the rest of his collection which was obtained after the Uchiha massacre. This is why he needed sasuke to develop the Eternal Mangekyo so that he could steal it, infuse it with the power of the Rikudō Sennin’s body which he plans on stealing from Naruto, so that he can gain the power of the Riningan so that he can be reborn as the ten tailed beast once more.

    Why not use Nagato’s Riningan? Probably because it lacks the power needed to undo the original Rikudō Sennin’s seal. Power he can only recreate by manipulating Sasuke and Naruto in order to create as close to the original Sons of the Rikudō Sennin as he can.

    Yes this is almost entirely supposition, and probably has at least a few gaping holes in it. But it’s something I came up with at 2 AM in the morning after reading some of the theories about Tobi being the Ten tails…

    Enjoy….*sits back to watch the chaos* >=]

  113. Bahh

    Replace all Ryuubi with Jūbi….
    Gah this is what I get for posting at 2AM…

  114. chapter is out!
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/23677185/1

    pretty kool although we dont get alot of info out of it…

  115. @tenraisenshi
    You still are not realizing that the Juubi had pretty much the same eye… Yes the Sage obtained the rinnegan but it doesnt say he created ninjutsu before fighting the beast. It doesnt have a confirmed timeline and it doesnt say how he fought the juubi. Tobi’s plan with the moon eye, apparently he plans to use the SAME eye that the juubi has, (Clearly the moon is replaced with the Juubi’s eye, not the rinnegan or the sharingan). So, you cant say the sage had or did not have the rinnegan because it isnt confirmed, I am stating a THEORY, so you cant cross out my theory on unconfirmed statements… @mardi1104… “his doing” you said it had to be someone living during madara’s time? Umm… the Juubi was living during the sage’s time, and possibly still living now, so i’m sure he was living during Madara’s time as well… you said that statement as if I said Tobi was Obito, AND IM NOT… and who did he know during his time alive? TOBI! Tobi was alive during Madara’s time… all i’m saying is you cannot disprove my theory because it is valid, MORE valid than Tobi being Obito, and even more valid than Tobi being Izuna, because Izuna had a confirmed death, funeral, and cause of death. They never really confirmed Madara’s death against Hashirama, they only showed him kneeling in defeat, but they showed a picture of Izuna at his funeral, and even said after having his eyes removed, he went to battle blind where he died… So HIS death is confirmed, he was just a support character for Madara’s character, just as Obito was a support character for Kakashi… HOW they obtained the power that they possessed, that is what those two were for

  116. A wild Madara appeared!

    9-Tails: Naruto, I choose you!
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/23677185/13

    9-Tails: Go, Naruto! Use Rasengan Spam!
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/23677185/14

  117. @Nastradoma Ponasus

    Whether or not the Juubi had a similar looking eye to the Sage of the Six Paths is still no proof that the Sage got the Rinnegan from the Juubi.

    In any case, if you actually read my earlier comments, I was the first person to support your Juubi/Tobi theory as being plausible and I even gave reasons as to why I thought it was possible, so I am not writing it off in any way whatsoever. I only just agreed with Baron’s point on the Sage having the Rinnegan before sealing the Juubi into himself, because I don’t see how he would have the power to seal the Juubi in the first place without it, that’s all. I never once said your theory was not plausible.

    Not everyone is against you here and I was never once trying to disprove your theory or tell you it wasn’t possible. Lol.

  118. the moon is not being replaced by the juubi’s eye, that’s how the moons eye jutsu looks when it’s activated. it literally casts a jutsu on the moon which is reflected off the moon in that form, much in the same way the moon reflects the suns rays to give off light.

    anywaysssss…i was thinkin, @ten-somethin in your comment earlier caught my attention about why izuna would help itachi wipe out his plan. i agree with you it makes sense. “madara’s” appearance has changed several teimes throughout the series, especially after he stared wearing that mask. i think the “madara” itchi delt with could really have been the real one n then later on the imposter took over. kabuto just said the real one didn’t die after his fight with hashirama so its not toooo farfetched to think he could’ve survived somehow to itachi’s time. i dont know..just thinkin out loud

  119. Been a while since I’ve been here. Just read the latest manga – WOW!

    Instead of the Jyuubi/Tobi theory, the stuff in this week’s manga is enough to make you jump out of your chair. To show you that she isn’t just a mere side-dish, Tsunade, my alter ego, has figured it ALL out – the name Madara is enough to bring people to war and that everyone has been caught up in the lie (ok, hysteria). It is clear that Orochimaru and now Kabuto (in Oro’s “skin”) were both behind this mess at least in some ways. Now, she’s heading out to the chaos known as the battlefield. Hopefully, it isn’t just to heal everyone – or worse yet, to do the mass healing she performed in Konoha to the detriment to her life. I’m sure she’s got something behind that sizeable chest of hers (and, by the way, she’s far more intelligent than our Raikage who supposedly leading the charge – he’s still stunned by everything).

    Yes, the Kyuubi came to Naruto’s aid but only begrudgingly. He took his version of “the lesser of two evils” and chose Naruto to assist. Awesome! However, why didn’t we see the real body of Naruto instead of the clone? The real body could have kept going. The clone is going to disappear – and of course that pain and exhaustion is going to hit the main body like a ton of bricks. Maybe the Kyuubi will eventually hand over the use of his body to Naruto but don’t count on it – he’s got some honor still. Ok, Kishi, what’s next?

    Then there’s the resurrected Madara. He’s got the DNA on him from Hashirama…or discovered that he, too, can have bazookas like Tsunade based on him looking down his shirt. I’m sure that Yamato, who is now merely ‘hanging out’ at the mountain known as the Akatsuki death chamber, is donating more than his fair share to whatever is under Madara’s blouse, too. And, now, the man behind the mask, for the moment, is considered to be a “clone” of Madara – perhaps a plant variety?

    I’m just as impressed with our Tsuchikage. The good ol’ fencesitter is no longer on the sidelines. His former master, Muu, is no longer the threat he once was. Now, he’s just as psych’ed to fight Madara and isn’t bitching about his back giving out. Never mind he looks like walking death but then that never mattered, did it? It is clear that Oonoki believes it is time for him to come to the plate and “batter up,” in order to leave the future to Gaara, Naruto and the youth of the “war.” Again…wow!

  120. What is Madara looking at his chest?

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/23677185/10

  121. Look at this:

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/23677185/10

    “I see you like small boobs, Kabuto”

    So that’s what he gave Madara that he didn’t have in his prime… 😛

  122. I posted under my Facebook account. Please delete that so this post isn’t spam. Thanks!

    Been a while since I’ve been here. Just read the latest manga – WOW!
    Instead of the Jyuubi/Tobi theory, the stuff in this week’s manga is enough to make you jump out of your chair. To show you that she isn’t just a mere side-dish, Tsunade, my alter ego, has figured it ALL out – the name Madara is enough to bring people to war and that everyone has been caught up in the lie (ok, hysteria). It is clear that Orochimaru and now Kabuto (in Oro’s “skin”) were both behind this mess at least in some ways. Now, she’s heading out to the chaos known as the battlefield. Hopefully, it isn’t just to heal everyone – or worse yet, to do the mass healing she performed in Konoha to the detriment to her life. I’m sure she’s got something behind that sizeable chest of hers (and, by the way, she’s far more intelligent than our Raikage who supposedly leading the charge – he’s still stunned by everything).
    Yes, the Kyuubi came to Naruto’s aid but only begrudgingly. He took his version of “the lesser of two evils” and chose Naruto to assist. Awesome! However, why didn’t we see the real body of Naruto instead of the clone? The real body could have kept going. The clone is going to disappear – and of course that pain and exhaustion is going to hit the main body like a ton of bricks. Maybe the Kyuubi will eventually hand over the use of his body to Naruto but don’t count on it – he’s got some honor still. Ok, Kishi, what’s next?
    Then there’s the resurrected Madara. He’s got the DNA on him from Hashirama…or discovered that he, too, can have bazookas like Tsunade based on him looking down his shirt. I’m sure that Yamato, who is now merely ‘hanging out’ at the mountain known as the Akatsuki death chamber, is donating more than his fair share to whatever is under Madara’s blouse, too. And, now, the man behind the mask, for the moment, is considered to be a “clone” of Madara – perhaps a plant variety?
    I’m just as impressed with our Tsuchikage. The good ol’ fencesitter is no longer on the sidelines. His former master, Muu, is no longer the threat he once was. Now, he’s just as psych’ed to fight Madara and isn’t bitching about his back giving out. Never mind he looks like walking death but then that never mattered, did it? It is clear that Oonoki believes it is time for him to come to the plate and “batter up,” in order to leave the future to Gaara, Naruto and the youth of the “war.” Again…wow!

  123. Dragon! LMAO!!!

    :D:D:D:D:D

  124. Y’know, I’ll bet Kabuto gave Madara extra eyes, Danzou style….

  125. Awesome chapter, but I didn’t quite get it. Was that Rasengan spam all it took to use up all of Kyuubis chakra??

    On a side note, I don’t really remember anything about the So6P’s family, but couldn’t Tobi be Rikudou’s firstborn, resentful because of losing to his in his eyes unworthy younger brother and trying to show the world that the power of his eyes surpasses that of the Rikudou’s body?
    I mean Tobi does have a fascination with powerful eyes, he collects shariingan, transplants himself both the sharingan and the Rinnegan and is trying to control the world through the most powerful eye technique, Mugen Tsukuyomi. Plus, Tobi seems to like having ninjas with powerful eyes around him, Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, Nagato…

    So, what do you think about it?

  126. @tenrai I just like debate, but I said the juubi eye replaced the moon even if it was just “reflected” the bottom line is,

    that tysukiyomo has connections to the juubi’s eyes… otherwise if he wanted to use the mugen tsukiyomo he wouldnt need the power of the juubi if anything… Afterall the tsukiyomo is a jutsu from the sharingan right? And since the rinnegan was the sot6p devolved later into a sharingan, he shouldn’t need the JUUBI’S power… apparently the Juubi plays a big role in the tsukiyomo as if that is the juubi’s technique in some kind of way. Don’t say “He needs the chakra from the juubi” If that was the case then he could just collect all the tailed beast and use their chakra instead of reviving the juubi… so, that is why i believe the sot6p powers was in result to the Juubi… And he was a sage afterall, or a monk, there were other ways to fight before ninjutsu, i’m sure a sage could seal a demon. That is what they supposedly what they are known for, casting out evil spirits and sealing them, well that or monks. You don’t see ninjas sealing demons in those other shows. Take Inuyasha for example, Kykio was a priestess, but she sealed demons, and even sealed Inuyasha. Miroku was a monk, and his father and himself sealed demons, so there are ways to seal demons besides ninja sealing techniques… He held up a priestly stick as well in the picture of him fighting the juubi. I mean come on, NO WAY is someone going to just wake up one day or be born one day with powerful eyes and be like “Oh snap I got this special power” naw, i’m sure after sealing the juubi in himself, that is when he used the power to create ninjutsu and spread it. teaching people how to use chakra. BUT… moving on…

    When did Naruto’s clone get so powerful? The mofo is using rasengans, getting his ass whooped, and also he SUMMONED shadow clones himself o.O… thats pretty kickass .__.

  127. “Sooo… Have you even seen the Juubi’s eye? I said that it LOOKED like a rinnegan sharingan hybrid”

    No you said; “the 10-tailed beast HAS a rinnegan/sharingan hybrid eye…”.

    “Izuna is dead, get over it, there is nothing more against it, he died in battle when going to war fully blind.”

    Is he? Or was that a clever distraction like Shisui’s “death”.

    “You are saying he has hashirama’s cells as if he granted him immortality”

    No I didn’t. Never have.

    “APPARENTLY he lived before Hashirama’s time…”

    Did he? Proof? where?

    “Did you ever see him actually fight?”

    You haven’t? Chapter 475 and 502 would be a good start then.

    “what does Izuna need a mask for?”

    Hmmm, I don’t know… How about keeping up appearances?…(sarcasm)

    When everybody thinks you’re dead surely you wouldn’t go and expose yourself when you can use it to your advantage.

    “After all, there’s no reason to believe that Izuna would need Zetsu cells to construct a body for himself for any reason whatsoever, seeing as how we’ve never seen any evidence that his body was ever damaged or destroyed in the first place.”

    We’ve already heard from both Zetsu and Tobi the numerous advantages Zetsu cells give. Chakra copying ability, Hashirama’s DNA and the most obvious one. Get a limb sliced off or infected or otherwise destroyed and Tobi can simply replace the limb/body part with a shiny new one.
    It’s true we’ve never seen Izuna’s body get damaged or destroyed but we also haven’t seen how Madara died, or gained the Rinnegan, or lost Kyuubi. Doesn’t mean those things didn’t happen.
    Now in the latest chapter Madara even speaks about “our” plan. He can only refer to Tobi as the partner there. Why would he team up with a washed up Uchiha brat like Obito. What would Obito possible have to offer to a possible partnership with Madara?
    The only way Obito could have brought something to the table is if he went from a low level Uchiha to God like in 4 years time… Yeah right… Not even Itachi, Sasuke or even Madara himself progressed that fast but now Obito is somehow the wonder genius that dwarfs both Itachi and Madara in talent… This troll aint buying none of that!

    “Secondly, you’re suggesting that only the right side of Obito’s body was crushed. Although that was initially the case, I would like to remind you that shortly after Obito gave Kakashi his left eye, the remaining rock around him caved in and covered the rest of his body, meaning that it could have easily been damaged all over, not just on the right side.”

    True however one of the most used argument in the Obito=Tobi theory was/is that Obito’s right side was crushed and that Tobi supposedly only has prosthetics on his right side (remember the screaming Obito=Tobi fangirls after Tobi dislodged his arm and kicked it at Danzou’s henchmen?). Now we know Tobi is probably prosthetic all over except for his head and it’s “well, Obito was probably crushed all over.”. 😛
    If that’s the case, how did his head survive?… illogical reasoning is illogical.

    “I agree with some of your points on the Juubi argument though. It’s practically a given that the Sage had the Rinnegan before he sealed the Juubi inside himself. How else would he have created ninjutsu, life or even had the power to seal the Juubi in the first place if he didn’t have the Rinnegan?”

    True,… With this argument alone the whole “Juubi = Tobi becauz Tobi haz Rinnegan” argument is beaten. Unless Juubi time traveled, gave the Sage his eyes so that the Sage could defeat him and make him the Sage’s bitch so that later on… Yeah, no… Illogical.

    “However, I don’t agree with your hypothesis that the Sharingan can simply evolve into the Rinnegan.”

    Did I say that? No I didn’t. I said it’s an evolution from the EMS, which is correct. I never said it was simple. Nobody could as we still don’t know the prerequisites to attaining or awakening the Rinnegan. Like I said in a comment before I believe Uzumaki blood or cells or chakra or whatever is needed to turn the EMS into the Rinnegan. It’s also possible a combination of Senju and Uzumaki blood/cells/chakra is needed.

    “Why would Izuna help Itachi wipe out the Uchiha clan? Izuna gave his eyes for the sole purpose of allowing his older brother to protect his clan, so him suddenly going out to destroy what he gave so much to protect doesn’t make sense.”

    Why would Madara. Simple. Madara was exiled for his ideals, his visions, his believes. That made him decide to come back and to try and kill Hashirama and destroy Konoha.
    Izuna shared Madara’s believes. They did everything together. Don’t you think Izuna would see Madara’s exile as a betrayal by the clan?

    Madara was willing to kill off his own clan, Itachi actually killed off the clan so why do you find it so far fetched for Izuna, who was almost a twin brother in terms of thoughts and actions, to want to kill off his own clan?
    Imagine Izuna in stead of Tobi talking about Madara’s exile to Sasuke, it makes sense. Especially when he mentions the bit about what kind of person would willingly harm his own brother and the bit where he says Izuna gave his eyes to Madara.

    “2: Why would Izuna try to create a Utopia? From his character profile, I’ve seen no evidence that would suggest any reasons as to why he would want to end all wars, especially when he and his brother, Madara, took pride in their strength and the battles they fought in. I just don’t see any motive for Izuna to wish for all wars to end. ”

    Well, the way I see it Tobi’s goal isn’t to end all wars. That was Pain’s goal. Tobi’s goal is to put everyone under an eternal genjutsu effectively making everyone his little toy. Perhaps he finds playing with peoples lives to be even more enjoying than competing himself.

    “I am stating a THEORY, so you cant cross out my theory on unconfirmed statements…”

    That works both ways. You base your theory almost entirely on assumptions.
    Compared to the Obito=Tobi and the Izuna=Tobi theory your theory’s only ground is the Juubi’s eye reflecting off the Moon. The rest of your arguments are in-circumstantial. With Obito at least there’s the bases that Obito is an Uchiha, was crushed to an apparant death which could explain the prosthetic body and Kakashi’s Mangekyou power is similar to Tobi’s Space Time Jutsu.
    With Izuna there is the striking resemblence in facial features, the hundreds of Sharingans Tobi possesses to replace an eye he’s lost (ideal when you’ve given both your eyes to your brother), the constant activated sharingan that would drain non-Uchiha of their chakra (which you claim Tobi doesn’t have) but doesn’t affect Tobi one bit, the vast knowledge of all that is ninja and the fact that he’s clearly been around for some time as we now know Tobi was a partner in crime of Madara, the wrinkles in Tobi’s face suggesting he is at least as old or even older than Danzo and Sarutobi were…

    Did I mention Tobi looks almost exactly like Izuna?

    Well, that’s about the size off it. Sorry if I was a bit harsh.

    “Y’know, I’ll bet Kabuto gave Madara extra eyes, Danzou style….”

    Eyes for nipples… Nice! (wonder what happens to those when it gets cold…)

    – Troll with bleeding fingers out. –

  128. (wraps bandages around fingers, wipes keyboard clean from blood, sees letters again)

    “If that was the case then he could just collect all the tailed beast and use their chakra instead of reviving the juubi…”

    Tobi IS collecting all the Bijuu’s… That’s what this entire war is about. 😛
    As for using the 9 Bijuus’ chakra without reviving the juubi. That just doesn’t make any sense… That’s like saying “I’m gonna use 9 revolvers in stead of that Gatling gun I’ve got stored in the basement”…

    – Sleepy troll out –

  129. @Baron

    Lol. That’s a lot of words. @____@

    *reads through novel*

    And they all lived hapily… No wait, that’s not right. O__o

    Seriously though, we’re both just gonna be throwing theories at each other all day and none of it will really do much good for us right now. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens when Tobi finally reveals his true identity. Then one of us can say “I told you so” to the other, at least. That’s if either of us is right in the first place. Lol.

    But, I’ll save your bleeding fingers the trouble for now and leave this conflict as being laid to rest for the time being.

    @Nostrodamo

    I’m not entirely sure why you’re trying to debate with me when I am not actually against your theory – per say – in any case.

    I mean, I do feel that the Juubi being Tobi is the least likely of the theories we’ve come up with so far, but I also believe that it is an interesting theory and is possible to some degree if Kishi were to pull it off right.

    In any case, I’d save your energy for Baron. He seems to be the greatest threat to your theory right now, and he’ll most likely continue to debate to that end as long as it takes to make his point.

  130. @tenrai senshi
    I only made reference once, i wasn’t debating with you ENTIRELY on my last post, just making more points, I was saying basically that the sage of the six paths did not make ninjutsu until after defeating the 10tailed beast.
    @redbaron
    I said that why not just use the nine bijuu to create your mugen tsyukiyomo if chakra is what you need, but APPARENTLY he needs to 10tailed beast! The ten tailed beast eye reflects off the moon when he talked about the mugen tsukiyomo so apparently the Juubi plays a huge role in it, and I am ASSUMING that the mugen tsukiyomo iS the Juubi’s jutsu in a way, afterall they say a bijuu isn’t as strong as a jinchurriki… Now as far as how the sot6p defeated the juubi? HE WAS A SAGE, they fought demons… the Juubi was a DEMON. Sages have sealing techniques, you’re acting like Ninjutsu made sealing techniques NO… Monks had sealing techniques as well, as you can see in the narutoverse, they have other culture besides ninja in the world, for example the samurai. After all the sot6p did hold up a priestly staff… now i made mention to that in my last comment but you failed to comment on that, unless I didn’t see you comment on it… And on the juubi’s eyes, how would you describe the eye? I described it from prior knowledge everyone knows, ok what do you see when you fuse a rinnegan and a sharingan, basically a hybrid, so I called it a hybrid IT IS NOT A HYBRID but i DESCRIBED it as a hybrid… Everything we say is an assumption, even what you say is an assumption, but I also used the fact that Izuna was dead, and Shishui’s fake death? NO, that was his death, in the river? Yeah that was AFTER Shishui gave Itachi his eye, afterall, they were by a river, so that death was not faked, HE DIED… Izuna is DEAD, that is like saying Elvis Presley is still alive… NO HE ISNT… they were not twin brothers at all, they were just regular brothers who trained together and obtained the mangekyou sharingan always equaling eachother in power.
    as far as “our” plan,
    “”Now in the latest chapter Madara even speaks about “our” plan. He can only refer to Tobi as the partner there”” possibly Madara is talking about being in partnership with Tobi or not.. HE PROBABLY WAS, but Kabuto said “the fake madara may not act as planned” probably because Tobi had new plans now or whatever, or maybe “our” referred to something else as if they are predicting what the fake madara will do.
    Tobi made mention to Nagato being the “3rd of the six paths”, and mentioned he betrayed him, he wanted to use his powers to bring back the dead. Now… if the eyes were Tobi’s to begin with, why didn’t he just use the rinnegan himself? He apparently didn’t have the chakra necessary. Why not? Because the bijuu is his chakra, why else did he use the rinnegan eye now that he had most of the bijuu? THAT is an assumption, no clear cut proof that was just a theory right there… but to make connection between Madara and Nagato, Tobi HAS to play a role in their connection. So that a plus to “our plan” in reference to tobi… I believe Tobi gave Madara the rinnegan, but then he made mention he would give it to Nagato so Nagato can become strong enough to revive Madara from the dead. Tobi did basically say that Nagato using that ressurecting jutsu betrayed him greatly, and that he had to switch “plans”… maybe he wasn’t “scared” about Kabuto bringing the coffin with Madara in it out, just shocked, and realized something was up. Tobi probably wants Madara back, WE DONT KNOW. Tobi did say if Kabuto betrayed him he would kill him, (Same with Nagato) again, we don’t know… but that whole little bit about tobi wanting madara back alive, don’t comment on that, that was just broken pieces put together…

  131. @Baron I just wanted to point out that Madara has fought, but he hasnt used ninjutsu…

  132. @Nastradoma

    Woah. You seem to be getting a bit aggitated there, from the looks of things. I’m guessing by all the capital letters. <__<

    Anyway, I'm afraid there are a few points of yours that I wholy don't agree with, and this is where I really do start debating you. Lol.

    Firstly, this whole thing about monks or sages creating sealing techniques, quite frankly that's hardly an accurate assumption and it sounds more like grasping at staws than anything else. We've seen plenty of ninja create sealing techniques, from Tsunade's chakra seal on her forehead, to Minato's reaper Death and hiraishin Seals, to Kakashi's seal he used on Sasuke's cursed seal, which was created by Orochimaru who also created a seal he used to block Naruto's eight trigram seal. O_o

    Now, are you telling me all the people listed above are sages? Actually, I could give many examples of Ninja who have used seals who have nothing to do with Senju, Uchiha or the sage of the six paths. Like Suna's sealing teams or Konoha's root division (who created seals to stop their members from giving away important info).

    Basically, what I am trying to say is that assuming that the Sage of the Six Paths was able to create sealing techniques purely because he was a "sage" is just that, a very big assumption with no basis whatsoever.

    The manga specifically states that the Sage gave birth to Ninjutsu. Not just sealing techniques, but all Ninjutsu. It also stands to reason that the sage would have needed to use ninjutsu to defeat the Juubi in the first place. Otherwise how on earth would he have stood a chance at all? You can't tell me that defeating the greatest chakra on the planet is something that someone without any special powers can do, so how can one expect anyone to defeat the Juubi unless they had a power like the Rinnegan to help them do it? Where talking about the mother of all monsters here. O_o

    There's also one more point that works against your theory about the Sage acquiring the Rinnegan only after the Juubi was sealed inside him. That is, of course, the fact that we have seen others awaken the Rinnegan without the Juubi's chakra, like Madara, for example.

    When the sage was on his death bed, he passed his power onto his sons. Now, please note, he passed on HIS own power, not the Juubi's power. The Juubi itself had its chakra split into nine parts and scattered across the world, which is where the Bijuu came from. So, if the Juubi's power is required to awaken the Rinnegan, how were the likes of Madara and Nagato able to use the Rinnegan without the Juubi's power? Neither of those two were even Jinchuuriki at all to begin with, much less Jinchuuriki for the Ten Tails.

    And last, but not least, you can't actually prove Izuna is dead simply by referencing a flashback that shows his apparent death. After all, there have been similar flashbacks showing Madara's apparent death (I recall a sillhouette with him and a whole lot of swords sticking out his back) and we all know Madara didn't actually die when everyone thought he did. So, although I agree that there is a good chance Izuna is actually dead, in this manga anything can happen and he may end up being alive and well and perhaps even as Tobi. That's just how things are on Naruto, so you can't just write that off. O_o

    So far, I think one of the best points you have working towards your theory is the appearance of Tobi's mask. It looks pretty much identical to the Juubi's eye, which brings up one question. How would Tobi know what the Juubi's eye looked like if he's never seen it….?

    Dum, dum, dum….

    (Unless, of course, the Uchuha shrine tablet described it in detail for some reason).

    But some of your points I still don't agree with withe regards to the Sage of the Six Paths himself…

  133. @tenrai senshi
    I didn’t say that anyone else didnt use sealing techniques… i said you dont have to be a ninja to use sealing techniques, sages used sealing techniques to seal demons… and monks. Sealing techniques did not come FROM ninjutsu. and i use caps to emphasize certain points. And as i said before there are other techniques you can use. example, the samurai do not use ninjutsu but you can see how powerful they can be. You see all the time like king arthur who defeated that great fire breathing dragon and being a mortal himself. Of course maybe all the powers were split amongst the bijuu, but who knows how much was kept with him and passed on. It can’t be coincidental that the other 2 of the 6 paths (madara and Nagato) both had contact with Tobi in some kind of way, going further Tobi stated the rinnegan was HIS.Tobi uses a jutsu that is kind of unknown and thats his space jutsu, the way people can just pass through him and such, other jutsus such as hiraishin has its orgins with special kunai and seals. and Raikage’s speed comes from the lightning cloak and so forth. But even after all of this… explain to me why the Juubi has that eye? In the anime the eye is red, and the sage’s eye is red. Why is this? Answer that question… if not, then my theory stands… because I believe in order to have the FULL power of the juubi, you need to possess its chakra as well… basically its jinchurikii. HINT, the sharingan is red, so that has connection to the juubi, the senju has mass chakra, connection to the juubi as well…

  134. what did king arthur beating a dragon have anything to do with this?

  135. @dish11
    It was an example of how ordinary warriors can defeat a giant monster… examples sir… examples, jeez you ppl take examples too seriously, they are just there to build a point not be the point.

  136. yeah i figured but i just dont see how it’s all that applicable. different worlds, different rules.

  137. and i say that in the sense of, a dragon is flesh and blood..something that can be cut and bleed and die. not a single huge mass of chakra in bodily form. just not something that’s gonna be beaten by an ordinary warrior, even one that can pull a magical sword from a magical stone 😉

  138. @Nastradoma
    As for the fact that a Jinchuuriki is stronger than a Biju, that’s just not true. The Sanbi would have fared better with a human partner that much is a fact but the Sanbi was dumb as hell. Other Bijus, especially the Kyuubi are highly intelligent beings. Human bodies limitate them actually. That is why their chakra makes a miniature form of themselves, to fight more effectively.

  139. @dmaxx3d: Actually, what you’re saying isn’t true. Tailed beasts are essentially animals and as such, they don’t have human intelligence. But when they get sealed in a human, they become smarter the more they stay in a human. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Jinchuriki
    That’s what makes a Jinchuriki so strong. They have both the power of a tailed beast and the intelligence to control it.
    The Sanbi was so stupid because it had been out of a human’s body for years and it had reverted to being simply a beast with insane chakra levels, lacking the brains to use them in the right way. http://www.mangareader.net/93-323-12/naruto/chapter-318.html
    The Kyuubi is so intelligent because it has never been free for extended periods of time (not counting the period immediately after the Rikudo Sennin’s death). Think about it: as soon as Mito died, the Fox was sealed in Kushina and soon after she died, it was sealed in Naruto. If the Kyuubi was released, it would retain its intelligence for a short time, but then it would revert to being a beast, just like the Hachibi during its battle with the Third Raikage. If it had been intelligent during that fight, it might have won.

  140. @Dragon: Aww, damn, seems you’re right. But I don’t understand how all the legends about the cunning kitsune came to be if kyuubi is pretty much a wild beast.

  141. anybody else think we’re actually about to see the 1st major charachter death of the war for the shinobi alliance? tsuchikage ain’t lookin too good right about now

  142. @dish: If anyone dies, it’s probably gonna be the Tsuchikage. I suppose he’s got that kickass one hit ko technique where he sacrifices himself but it doesn’t do jack shit against madara. Either way, I’ve got the feeling that any major character death would be unrealistic right now. If Kishi has not killed off a single person we actually care about up until now, now its too late. The Tusichikage should have died in that awesome panel where the Mizukahe shot him..

  143. @dmaxx

    I agree with you.. I was was wondering why is he still alive from that point blank shot at his back and it went through. The only reason i see that he’s still alive is to fight Madara because he has fought him before but from that point blank shot of Mizukage I think it’s a mistake Kishi did. I don’t know. Could have been that way.

  144. @pisbolman: Wow I haven’t posted that much in forever. I love holidays lol.
    The Tsuchikage who was shot was just a sandclone. That was just a cheap solution i you ask me. It’s not like he’s that relevant storywise and he would have died an awesome death( well awesome for us, not so much for him).
    Also I know Kishi has the story planned out but I think some things went a little bit out of hand. Just look at the pattern of the Sannin’s death. Tsunade technically shouldn’t be alive at this point but there are no other options for the Hokage right now. That means Tsunade had to wake up but then her coma served no point.
    Sorry, didn’t mean to rant. There are too many who get on my nerves by hating him right now. I don’t agree with every decision he makes but I have faith in him.
    Though I will personally fly to Japan and kick his ass if Naruto and Hinata won’t get together

  145. There were no casualties because those characters before were just build up characters. I think there are going to be alot of heart breaks when the war reaches its peak, starting with this kage. I can’t wait to be like “why did he have to go D:” and all that stuff lol even though i may be sad, i can tell kishimoto is going to mind fuck us all!!!!! 😄

  146. @dmaxx3d

    I’m not sure why you base Tsunade’s life on the life of her two comrades. Just because Jiraiya and Orochimaru died, that doesn’t mean she has to die. She still has a role to play as the Hokage, after all, and if she does ever die, it should be an epic death like Jiraiya’s was. Not just some random death for no reason.

    P.S. her coma did serve a purpose, story wise. It allowed Danzou to take control for a while and we got to see more of a build up for his character. It was also a build up for Sasuke’s as he killed Danzou. If Tsunade was still awake, Danzou would not have been appointed as Hokage, he would have never attended the Kage summit and Sasuke wouldn’t have killed him or even been at the summit either.

    It was at the Kage summit that Sasuke awakened Susanoo and where his dark nature truly came to life (He betrayed his comrades, became colder than ever and even tried to kill his former teammates). Essentially, if it wasn’t for that event, none of that development for Sasuke would have happened and he wouldn’t have had as much of an intensive to get the EMS, either, because it was mostly during the summit battle that he lost a majority of his eyesight.

    All things happen for a reason in this story. The author’s plan may not always be obvious to us, but to Kishi, it is clear why each thing happens the way it does as far as driving his story goes.

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