Naruto 548 Breakdown

Look! Fruit Ninja!

I’ve got like an hour and a half tops to finish this, so we’ll get right on it.

Who?

My first thought was how inaptly deceitful the chapter’s title was. I remember seeing the release on my cell and getting a little psyched to check it out back home. Blissfully oblivious to Kishi’s troll.

The first couple pages were about Gaara’s “bronze years,” which sure as shit had nothing to do with Naruto or Itachi. The next couple pages were about the two other Kages, which sure as shit had nothing to do with Naruto or Itachi. The only pages then connected directly to the title were more random plug-ins than anything else.

But save for all that unnecessary banter. Did 548 deliver?

Well I liked it.

With all that automatic defense, I wonder where Gaara's bleeding comes from...

More of the awesomeness points I ascribed to this chapter were earned by the one spread. Gaara’s mother’s hands over her son, protecting him always was an image truly symbolic of motherhood. But maybe more importantly, it featured some very cool artwork, something I have feared Kishi has been losing touch of since, but I’m almost certain that’s just me.

I guess it’s more or less confirmed now as well. She is Gaara’s automatic defense, and she has always been. It never was the Shukaku. I personally am more satisfied with this outcome especially because I find it more coherent with our current knowledge of Bijuu. If Gaara’s death would have ultimately led to Shukaku’s freedom, why would it have wanted to keep him from harm?

I am proud of Kishi though. He held out from the L word (no, not lesbian) for this long, impressively all the way through the reunion of the Brothers of the Alphabet. That time, I could almost feel Kishi screaming inside he wanted to break out ‘love’ so bad.

All I know is there better be exactly 300 killer wolves in there, or I'm quitting this manga.

Meanwhile, as it turns out, the old Raikage and Mizukage weren’t so useless after all. They prove this by exacting their power on generic uniform ninja extras, who apparently only know how to say “UWAAAAAAAH!!!”

What surprises me is that Kabuto has not yet found it necessary to remove their sense of presence, even though it  obviously can’t be working out how he must have planned: an intention I never really understood in the first place, considering how none of these guys really shares any emotional connection with the enemy, or at least enough to make them second guess kicking their ass.

It's funny because...actually no, no it's not...

With all that fodder out of the way came the true core of the chapter. That’s sarcasm by the way.

There are a great many things that could potentially come into play with this encounter. And I personally felt the nostalgia in the air. What I am looking to see is about the crow-in-mouth no jutsu from way back when and what that was all about.

But in any case, here’s hoping this chance meeting doesn’t blow.

Bubblition

Congratulations to Gavin!

*Wait, what?*

And for this week…

Insert possible caption here.

NB: I can’t tell if this thing is a guy or a girl.

Debate

I guess the winner from the last debate by default would be…

And this week’s debate…

Did pupil ever surpass master?

Let your imaginations run wild.

Every siren is a symphony

Fix

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~ by Captain Pickles on July 24, 2011.

96 Responses to “Naruto 548 Breakdown”

  1. FIRST!

  2. second?

  3. DERP! I mean third! >.>

  4. third?

  5. Great Breakdown Pixy Poo , IMO though the chapter wasn’t even nearly up to par

  6. Lol. The breakdown was really funny. Well done Pickles. The caption looks suggestive though, which is probably why you chose it. <_<

    Now, I shall don my battle armor and prepare for our next debate. @__@

    First, I actually have to decide who I am choosing though…

  7. Bubble: SURPRISE!!!
    caption: No wonder Garra was so Emo as a child…. *shudders*

    @Captain Pickles- If the Giant Clam rose rapidly from the sand, then they are not being thrown but rather falling off of it’s shell.

    @Debate- No contest as monkeys eat toads for lunch =P Hiruzen Sarutobi for the WIN!!!

  8. @Bubblition: LOL!!

  9. Bubble: L’ Oreal: Because I’m worth it

  10. Good job Pickles, I don’t know if u’re spying on me or not but the caption feels more disturbing now that I came from a weekend at the sea. But the sand is on other genitalia if you know what I’m saying :)).

    Anyway, true enough last week’s title was sure a major letdown but the chapter was pretty good non the less.

    Debate

    Jirayia will kick hiruzen’s old ass with sage mode all the way into the senile home. Even if Hiruzen was a great shinobi back in the day he cannot win unless he uses the shinigami and so he dies as well.

    Jirayia has power and speed via sage mode and on top of that he’s got Ma and Pa frog to use al there jutsus and genjutsu.

    If Hiruzen were at his prime the fight would be in his favor, but just like with Orochimaru, I was hard for him just to keep up with Oro so that’s why I see the J Man taking this one home.

  11. @Eugen – Assuming Hiruzen even lets him go sage mode that is. Hiruzen is no fool. Hiruzen would never let Jiraya have the time needed to gather natural energy, or the time it takes to summon Ma and Pa frog, as if I remember right it took him a few minutes to gather the chakra to summon them. So in my humble opinion Hiruzen still has a great advantage over Jiraya.

    Also it was hard for Hiruzen to keep up with Orochimaru because he was using a much younger host body at the time. It was exactly like if Hiruzen were fighting Orochimaru at his prime, and he still held his own. So that also tips the battle in favor of the 3rd Hokage of the Hidden Leaf.

  12. @ Eugen

    Remember, when we have battle debates, one of the criteria is that both contestants involved are battling at their prime, when they were at their strongest in life. So, for example, if Itachi is in a battle debate, we consider his strength in his prime, not when he was dying from an illness like he was against Sasuke. The same goes with any other contestant, including the third Hokage.

    Either way, even if you did use the third hokage as he was against Orochimaru, you have to remember that he wasn’t just battling Orochimaru. He was also battling the first and second Hokage as well. Now, I’m not sure about you, but as far as I am concerned, someone who is able to take on three Kage level shinobi by himself, is able to defeat two outright and force the third to withdraw, is definitely powerful in my books. When you consider that his opponents were also essentially immortal and immune to any damage, that makes his efforts that much more commendable and praise worthy.

    Let’s also consider that Hiruzen Sarutobi was also famous for the fact that he had learned and mastered every jutsu known in Konoha and that he has – as far as I recall – over 1000 jutsu at his disposal.

    Jiraiya is strong yes, and I agree that Sage mode gives him a very powerful edge in any battle, but you need to ask yourself one question here. Is Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru? Or better yet, is Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru when he is being backed up by the first and second Hokage? You’ll have to consider that. You’ll also have to consider that Jiraiya’s Sage mode also wasn’t perfected to the point that Naruto’s was. This was highlighted both in words by Fukusaku and by the fact Pein was even able to block one of Jiraiya’s punches with his bare hand, which suggests that the super strength Naruto had in Sage mode was far superior to that which Jiraiya had.

    Pein was never able to block a punch from Naruto without being sent flying. Hell, even dodging a punch killed one of his bodies. Lol.

    Jiraiya’s greatest strengths, in my opinion, are his experience, his not perfect but still powerful sage mode, and his ability to use very extensive summoning techniques. I just don’t know if that is enough for a battle with the third.

  13. @ tenrai – We do understand the “prime” factor but when it involves people like Oonik and the 3rd, we cannot say they where a million times better when they where younger just as we not sure exactly when Jiraiya, learn’t Sage Mode so he would also be younger, it should be at there best that we can judge from lucky we know the 3rd was more powerful from statements and his flash backs…

  14. @ Pein

    I was just replying to the argument that Hiruzen wasn’t in his prime when he fought Orochimaru. If anyone feels his prime was when he was younger, then they are welcome to use him as he was then in their debate.

    If one believes he was stronger when he was older, then the same applies.

    It’s all about applying that logic to your debate and making it workable. In my opinion, however, Hiruzen as he was in the battle against Orochimaru, was strong enough as it is.

  15. @ Tenrai and IANRH (sorry Iamnotreallyhere your name is really long, ming if I use the short version 🙂 ).

    Well, let see, I can see it like this:

    Hiruzen:
    – Great ninjutsu, able to use almost as many jutsu as Kakashi.
    – Great battle skills and experience
    – Awesome Summon witch can be used as a hand held weapon as well.
    – Also he has a lot of knowledge on Jirayia’s skill being the one who thought him
    – Overall a perfect shinobi, but lacking in stamina and chakra.

    Jirayia:
    – Awesome use of ninjutsu and understanding of foreign powers
    – Also great experience and a lot of hidden skills
    – Summons a great variety of toads including there own set of jutsu and the use of Sage Mode.
    – Itachi stated that both he and Kisame would end up dead if they took him on, so that for me feels very similar to the battle hiruzen had with Orochimaru and the two kages.
    – Also Jirayia has great defensive jutsu like the needle hair and the chakra detection sphere witch can limit Hiruzen’s attempt on Jirayia’s life.

    There are a few other facts for both shinobi I would point out later but I fell a bit held back by the fact that the only battle we’ve seen Hiruzen in was the one where he died at Oro’s sealed arms. So it’s a bit of a let down not knowing that much about the 3rd, even if he was a praised as he was.

  16. @Eugen

    “Itachi stated that both he and Kisame would end up dead if they took him on, so that for me feels very similar to the battle hiruzen had with Orochimaru and the two kages.”

    Actually, Itachi just stated that there was no rush in capturing Naruto so for him it was an unnecessary battle that was better to avoid. It was also because he had wasted a lot of chakra using Tsukyomi and Amatarasu, one right after the other. Kisame, on the other hand, questioned why it was necessary to retreat for him, which implies that Itachi could have still defeated Jiraiya. There was no mention by Itachi that either himself or Kisame were at risk of dying if they fought.

    “Also Jirayia has great defensive jutsu like the needle hair and the chakra detection sphere witch can limit Hiruzen’s attempt on Jirayia’s life.”

    Hiruzen can summon a defensive cage around himself using Enma or use his Doton jutsu to create shields of earth. Jiraiya’s Needle hair only defends him from physical attacks by threatening the attacker with spiky retribution. I doubt it would help him if he found himself face to face with a Katon jutsu.

  17. @ Tenrai, Jiraiya also uses both earth and fire jutsu so anything Hiruzen can come up I think Jiraiya can match due to the far greater chakra pool.

    Also remember the toad stomach that only amaterasu managed to break. Do you think Enma can resist the digestive fluids even at his current level of power and defensive skills? Also Jiraiya’s hair can shoot the needle hairs that are his fastest mid-long range jutsu, so when defending he can attack as well.
    Hiruzen on the other hand can use the monkey to his advantage really well due to the fact that it can elongate and retract at hiruzen’s will. So that summon counts for more then half of hiruzen’s strategy and power IMO.

    I like the fact that Jiraiya is a power house like Naruto, compared to a well versed fighter like Hiruze who I compare to Kakashi in terms of fighting style, skills and amount of chakra. So if the fight drags out to much hiruzen will be left with only the shinigami or surrender.
    We’ve seen how Jiraiya can analyze in the middle of a fight, like the one with Pain. And Naruto also took on shinobi like Kakuzu and Pain by relying on his brute power and speed similar to Jiraiya’s and always came out on top.

    In narutoverse I see the following, If your not a powerful shinobi you better be a damn good long range fighter like Deidara, Hiruzen isn’t what you would call a taijutsu master as far as we know, so if he can’t match Jiraiya’s power he cannot hold out in the long run.

    I’m not saying the 3rd can’t win, he might kill Jiraiya in the first 30 seconds, but he seems like a reserved fighter who only strikes when necessary unlike Jiraiya, who fights all out from start to finish.
    As I said before, I wish we had a Hiruzen fight in his prime where he went all out against a kage or a formidable foe so we can judge from that how well he can use his skills.

    Also remember Jiraiya uses rasengan, the best shape based jutsu out there, and he can use it in all kinds of sizes depending on how powerful the opponent.

  18. @Eugen

    I think people get the wrong impression about the Hiruzen’s power for some reason, just because he died in his battle against Orochimaru. I also think your argument about him having lower chakra levels than Jiraiya is probably based on that same battle, because he didn’t have enough chakra to finish sealing Orochimaru’s entire spirit.

    Now, I will reiterate what I said in my earlier comment. In his battle with Orochimaru, Hiruzen was fighting against two Kage and Orochimaru himslf at the same time, yet he was able to last to the end of the fight, despite the numerous advantages set against him. He couldn’t kill his opponents even though he managed to deliver mortal wounds to both the first and second Hokage and Orochimaru was able to play it safe by forcing Hiruzen to take a more defensive tactic in that battle. Even despite all of that, Hiruzen still managed to defeat both his predecessors and, at the same time, he managed to incapacitate Orochimaru himself.

    Now, the reason I am using this particular battle in my argument is because it is the best way – and really the only way – Ito understand Hiruzen’s strength. It is also a good way to compare it to Jiraiya’s strength by using a suitable bridge between the two, who would be Orochimaru himself.

    You refer to Jiraiya as a powerhouse, but let’s look at Orochimaru for a second here. He is someone who was able to go toe-to-toe with Naruto in his four tailed state, even when he was nearly crippled by pain from his inevitable need to change bodies soon afterwards. Remember what happened to Jiraiya when he faced four tails Naruto? Oh yes, he almost died. In fact, he himself mentioned that it was one of only two times in his life that he had come that close to death. Orochimaru was able to dance with the beast that nearly killed Jiraiya and yet he was enjoying it as if it was some sort of game to him, that is a fact.

    Orochimaru was also able to fight two sannin, Jiraiya and Tsunade, at the same time in a battle of summons during the Tsunade retrieval arc, even without the ability to perform jutsu himself. Although he didn’t win the battle, the fact that he gave two of his fellow sannin such a hard time idespite his handicap, says a lot for his power.

    And yet, even despite that, he barely walked away from his battle with Hiruzen alive and that was with the help of TWO Kage on top of his own power. I can almost guarantee that if it was just Orochimaru vs Hiruzen, he would have likely lost.

    Now, of course, Jiraiya’s trump card would probably be Sage Mode. It is the one ability that would probably give him the edge needed to beat his former master and it is the one ability that would probably put him on par with Orochimaru. However, as mentioned before by Iamnotreallyhere, Jiraiya needs a lot of time to be able to gather the energy needed to summon Ma and Pa toad. He also needs to keep his hands together the entire time while he is gathering that energy, which means he cannot use any other ninjutsu that requires hands seals, nor can he use taijutsu effectively. To me, that is a big disadvantage, a weakness that someone on the level of genius of Hiruzen would definitely exploit.

  19. @Ten

    Orochimaru was also able to fight two sannin, Jiraiya and Tsunade, at the same time in a battle of summons during the Tsunade retrieval arc, even without the ability to perform jutsu himself. Although he didn’t win the battle, the fact that he gave two of his fellow sannin such a hard time idespite his handicap, says a lot for his power.

    So being a sanin means you’re strong ? Tsunade Disagrees 🙂
    And Yes Jiraya did almost die against the 4-tails , but you forget Sage-Mode. With Sage-Mode on I don’t see the Third winning this one and without it I Dont see Jiraya Winning It . However as a general rule Eugen put it best !

    “In narutoverse I see the following, If your not a powerful shinobi you better be a damn good long range fighter like Deidara, Hiruzen isn’t what you would call a taijutsu master as far as we know, so if he can’t match Jiraiya’s power he cannot hold out in the long run.”

  20. @ Debate – Hiruzen was able to handle Orochimaru at what could be the Sanin’s prime plus the 1st and 2nd Hokage to boot, in his old age too, Though I wish that battle was longer to show more of what he can do, Hiruzen was able to seal 2 Hokage’s plus Orochimaru’s arms, IF Jiraiya gets into Sage mode then I think he will win but I still think that Hiruzen will do better in a long battle, his knowledge of Jutsu and being the longest serving Hokage will count for a lot.

    I think that Jiraiya is a better fighter in a long battle, but Hiruzen in his prime would be more then enough 😀

  21. @Ahsan

    I never forgot Sage Mode, in fact, I mentioned it a few times in my posts. O_o

    But to answer Eugen’s statement…

    “In narutoverse I see the following, If your not a powerful shinobi you better be a damn good long range fighter like Deidara, Hiruzen isn’t what you would call a taijutsu master as far as we know, so if he can’t match Jiraiya’s power he cannot hold out in the long run.”

    Here’s the thing, Hiruzen was known as “The Professor” because of his mastery of ALL forms of shinobi combat in addition to his knowledge of all existing ninjutsu in Konoha. This means that he has mastered the fields of Genjutsu, Ninjutsu AND Taijutsu. This is supported by the stats in the databook, because he has full stats in all three of these fields, so don’t assume he isn’t good at Taijutsu just because he looks old, especially when he is apparently a master of it.

    I will also remind you, once again, that the strength granted by Jiraiya’s sage mode is nowhere near as high as what we saw with Naruto, because he had not perfected the technique yet. Pein was able to block one of Jiraiya’s punches while he was in Sage mode just using a single hand and nothing more, as shown here:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-377/15/

    So, in terms of Taijutsu, there is nothing that indicates that Sarutobi wouldn’t be able to match him there, especially if he is using Enma in his staff form for CQC.

    I also mentioned why Jiraiya wouldn’t just be able to go into sage mode. It takes time and he can’t use his hands or any ninjutsu while he is doing it, nor can he effectively use Taijutsu. How will he win with Sage mode if he can’t even attain that form in the first place?

  22. True enough , but i meant it as in assume it . The way i see it Sage mode with the toads on is a big Hax , and you don’t win against Hax >_> . You can obviously win if you dont let the Hax happen .

    Btw ten you should read your email >_> It’s been nearly 2weeks >_>

  23. @ Ahsan

    “and you don’t win against Hax”

    Tell that to Kakashi. 😛 *Runs away after the low blow*

    P.S. I read your email and I replied to it. X___x

  24. @ Tenrai – We would have to see Kakashi in a battle for this to be relevant 😛

  25. Kasashi Rampage wasn’t enough for you? Pshaw – there is no pleasing some people.

  26. @ Tenrai, Your making this debate enjoyable for me, ok first off:

    Indeed Hiruzen is or was a great master of all there was in Konoha back in the day and indeed he took on Oro and Hashirama and Tobirama at the same time and indeed Oro took on Tsunade and Jiraiya at the same time, BUT what you forgot to mention are the following:

    Firstly the fight between Oro and Hiruzen was a great testament of Hiruzen’s power at his old age, but is was far from the real power both Hashirama and Tobirama were known to handle.

    Both the 1st and 2nd Hokages were greatly underrated in that fight, Hashirama only used a bit of Mokuton witch was indeed powerful enough to restrain Hiruzen but not much else, while Tobirama, the user of expert water jutsu, edo tensei, flying thunder god and also genjutsu and sensory skills only used a small demonstration of Suiton based jutsu.
    Now I don’t know about you but from what I know now about the 1st and 2nd Hokage I regard that battle as the biggest shame they brought upon themselves ever.

    As I said, Hiruzen did perform great, but the opponents were not at the level they should have been, not by far.

    Now regarding Orochimar’s battle with 4tails Naruto, yes the freak did enjoy the battle quite a lot but don’t forget even he said that if he didn’t use the 3 Rashonmon Gates (hope I spelled that right) no amount of his regeneration would have saved him from Death’s warm embrace.

    Regarding Jiraiyia’s fight with 4tails Naruto, true enough once again he did state that it was the only other time he came close to death, BUT he took that risk because he tried to reseal the fox without hurting Naruto ( You can check that if you don’t believe me), if Jiraiya took the battle the same way Orochimaru did the outcome would have probably been different, don’t you think so?

    Now the final part of the rant is the 3 sannin fight. yes once again your 100% right, Orochimaru & KABUTO did take on Tsunade and Jiraiya (and Naruto and Shizune, just to be fair) in a fight (remember Kabuto was there too :))) But another thing you forgot to mention yet again is the fact that Jiraiya was drugged by Tsunade and he stated that he was, If I’m not mistaken, at 50% of his power.

    Now that’s quite the power loss if you ask me, that with Tsunade’s fear of blood and Kabuto’s skills made the fight pretty even if you ask me. So this fight was in actuality a handicap fight all around and non of the Sannin were at there best. But when Tsunade came to and lost the fear for plasma, If I’m not mistaken, she whooped Oro’s ass like a little bitc7. And that was Tsunade alone.

    Now that’s about the end of my rant so far, and I’m still kipping my vote for Jiraiya for this one for now.

  27. @ Eugen – Well saying that the 1st and 2nd where under rated in their fight with the third is very fair, as we have seen Edo Tensei’s biggest weakness is that the fighters do not fight for their lives and would seem much weaker… BUT remember the 3rd was older in the battle so lets say, Tobirama and Hashirama faught at 75% capacity, Hiruzen would be at a similar disadvantage since he was old and battled with Orochimaru already for a short time. So fairly Hashirama and Tobirama where immortal too so I mean I think their legs etc where blown up? That in a usual battle would be the end so I think we can fairly say that IF Hirzen was like not as old but still in his prime, lets say he was 82 then his battle capacity would be at prime 48 learnt most of the jutsu he knows anyways.

    Orochimaru vs the other Sanin – Kabuto was a great help here since he did almost everything, BUT I don’t think we can bring this into refrence, Manda is an expensive summon and none of Orochimaru’s strength was actually used here, we can look at how Oro made mince meat out of Jiraiya before but again irrelevent to the debate….

    I love the last part, Jiraiya wanted to keep Naruto safe and alive… this annoys the hell out of me when Pain is in a debate, whichever tard will say, but Pain lost to Naruto, but it is more difficult to try restrain someone then killing them since you must hold back to a degree, and once Pain started fighting seriously he had already waged an entire war by himself (random point)

    back to the debate, Hiruzen’s only weakness was his age really in the Orochimaru battle he knew all Konoha’s jutsu (i think if not most) besides Kekkei Genkai etc, his stats on Taijutsu is very high and with Enma he would be a match (or close) to Jiraiya in Sage mode. The battle will be close but if you give Hiruzen a couple of years off, since lets be honest his major growth would of happened before not between 65-80 he wanted to retire, Jiraiya also seemed to peek before his battle with Pain… I also doubt knowing his character that Jiraiya would only resort to Sage at the end and once Hiruzen had built up steam he would be almost impossible to beat, plus he has the sealing in the end 😉

  28. @ arpotu – Once he went into Rampage Mode, I stoped calling Kakashi, by his name like Nagato went to Pain, Kakashi went to G.O.N.E – GOD OF NARUTO EVERLASTING….

  29. @ Pein, True enough, I am being a little one sided, but your points regarding the 1st and 2nd hokage are accurate to the point were we can agreed both Hiruzen was strong and the former hokages were weaker. So that’s out of the way.

    Regarding the capturing part, that’s so true, trying to capture someone if a far more difficult job then trying to kill them, as I pointed out when Jiraiya try’ed to restrain Naruto without hurting him.

    Regarding Enma being on par with Jirayia in Sage mode, I cannot help but doubt that, I’ve yet to see a summon or person besides Pein who can be on the same level as sage mode, even a great summon like Enma.

    Sage mode to me is like the Super Hex, at least Naruto’s perfect version, you have awesome power, awesome speed, taijutsu that can know you dead without even touching you, sensory of surrounding chakra plus the added bust to all the original jutsus the users used before.
    If Jiraiya enters Sage Mode ( and I can see no reason why he can’t, when he did it while fighting an opponent like Pain) Hiruzen’s skills and chances to win will be down to maybe 25-30%.

  30. @ Tenrai, Itachi actually stated that the best result he and Kisame could hope for would be a stalemate and that back up wouldn’t have made a difference. I went and checked :D. So neither Itachi nor Kisame were a match for Jiraiya and death was the only winner in that fight for all of them.

  31. @Eugen

    I will have to counter you a bit later. For now, I have to work on my breakdown and time is of the essence.

    Even still, in the meantime, can you please provide me a link that shows Itachi saying that the best they could have hoped for is a stalemate?

    Thank you.

    What I really wanted to say though, was happy birthday to Supertrek, even though he isn’t here at the moment.

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

  32. @ Tenrai, I was to lazy to go and find the manga and page so I took it out of Jiraiya’s profile on http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Jiraiya

    “His strength was so great that even powerful members of Akatsuki either were easily subdued like Konan while others like Itachi Uchiha and Kisame Hoshigaki, a master of the Sharingan and former member of the Seven Mist Swordsmen respectively, opted not to face him in battle, fearing that the very best they could do together against Jiraiya would end in a stalemate. Kisame even said that he was no match for Jiraiya saying he was “on a whole other level.” Itachi stated that even if they had reinforcements the result would be no different.”

  33. @ Eugen – Well as I said both sides had been in a weaker then Prime state, Not that a full power Hiruzen at his prime was fighting weaker Hokage’s, so there is still a reason to believe that 2 weaker immortal hokages where beaten by a Hiruzen older then his prime and had already battled a short battle with Orochimaru…

    Though Sage Mode is a Hax, Naruto was perfect in his form and Jiraiya was good but not perfect so we are unsure of his limitations, he gains the speed and strength but if he looses Ma en Pa he is a fish out of water… Sage has always been a last resort for Jiraiya and that can be his downfall, Hiruzen younger and with a awesome frontal attack option is pretty unbeatable I would think.

    with the prison thing Hiruzen is also very well protected, I think its a bit of a stretch but lets have Jiraiya age to Hiruzens age or revert Hiruzen back to Jiraiya’s and Hiruzens biggest weakness stamina would be a moot point 😀

  34. @ Pein, actually I consider Jiraiya at his prime almost at the same age as when he died. I actually would love to see Hiruzen slap the shit out of Jiraiya but I am only commenting on what we actually know and saw Hiruzen do.

    As I said before, Hiruzen might kill Jiraiya in 30 seconds, but we haven’t seen what he could do in his younger years. All we have is random facts and stories. A lot of great old shinobi let us down now when resurrected by edo tensei, like Hanzo and the Kin Gin bros. So saying Hiruzen was a great warrior is as true as it can be, but he was considered a great shinobi in his time, Minato was as great as a shinobi could be Jiraiya was as well.

    If we go by the fact the the younger surpass the older we’re left with only one decisive conclusion. But this is a debate and I’m trying to keep the facts to the debate as best I can. I didn’t speculate either way, the fact is we know to much about Jiraiya and too little about Hiruzen to come to a complete conclusion.

    About the cage Sarutobi makes from Enma, that can be easily avoided with Jiraiya’s super fast needle attack, witch are strong, powerful and his fastest jutsu. I also think that if Hiruzen resorts to that the J Man can also summon the Fire Spitting Toad stomach witch can melt and digest almost anything, and unless Sarutobi knows Amaterasu then it would be quite the challenge to get out of that.

    Jiraiya was also known to perform numerous seals so he might know a couple of those that might come in handy, but being limited as it is I won’t base anything on that. Hiruzen also was well versed in sealing jutsu if he knew the dead demon consuming soul, so he might be better then Jiraiya in that department.

    Once again I bring rassengan into the debate and with that all I have to say is:
    Kakuzu+FRS=dead
    Yahiko+rassengan=dead
    Kabuto+rasengan= F&^(ed Up 2 times
    Sasuke’s early chidori vs Naruto’s rassengan= Big hole in water tank compared to a little fist size puncture

  35. Bubble: What do you think I and Haku have in common ??
    Caption: Mangkas have a very fucked up sense of humor when it comes to men that are misleading.
    Caption 2: Always check before you turn the lights off.

  36. @Eugen (Prepare for a wall of text death)

    Sorry, but the Naruto Wiki is full of too many biased and opinionated articles for me to take it seriously. If you want to make references, please rather use the manga itself or the official fact files, otherwise I will disregard it. I’ve said it many times before to the likes of even Darks and I still stand by that sentiment.

    Now, for a real reference. Firstly, this page suggests that Jiraiya knows that Itachi outmatches him.

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-148/16/

    “That guy (Itachi) is on a whole different level. He came because of you. His distance is the only thing stopping him from…”

    Now, I am sure you can tell where that sentence is leading. Basically, the only thing stopping Itachi from capturing Naruto, is how far away he is. This line suggests that Jiraiya knows that even he wouldn’t be able to stop Itachi if he really wanted to capture Naruto.

    You can also tell by the seriousness of his expression just how precarious he deemed the situation to be.

    For my second reference:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-148/07/

    Note, Neither Itachi or Kisame mention anything about fearing to battle Jiraiya. Nor are there any suggestions that they would end up in a stalemate if they fought at their very best. Even Kisame questioned it because he knew that for Itachi, it was not necessary.

    I don’t know where you got those other quotes from, like Kisame saying he was no match for Jiraiya, or Itachi saying reinforcements wouldn’t help, but they are definitely not from the manga.

    In any case, there is the proof and evidence that dislodges the suggestion of your previous post. If you have other proof to counter it from the manga, you are welcome to present it.

    Now, as for your counter on the three way sannin battle, if all three had handicaps, then that means the battle was still balanced, does it not? That makes Orochimaru’s feat of standing up against two sannin still very impressive. I was also referring more to the three way battle that involved their summons, which Kabuto did not take part in at all, not the individual battles leading up to that point.

    But if you would like to refer to those previous skirmishes, then I would like to remind you that Orochimaru smashed Jiraiya into the ground, breaking some of his bones and incapacitating him for long enough that he wasn’t able to help Naruto or Tsunade while they were being threatened.

    As for this paragraph of yours…

    “Now regarding Orochimar’s battle with 4tails Naruto, yes the freak did enjoy the battle quite a lot but don’t forget even he said that if he didn’t use the 3 Rashonmon Gates (hope I spelled that right) no amount of his regeneration would have saved him from Death’s warm embrace”

    The fact is, Orochimaru didn’t die against Naruto’s attack and he did successfully defend against it using a jutsu he had, just like any other combatant would use any jutsu they had to win a battle. You discounting that fact by talking as if it was only the jutsu that saved him is like me saying only Jiraiya’s sage mode allowed him to survive longer against Pein. In both cases, their jutsu allowed them to survive, after all, a shinobi’s jutsu makes up a large part of their strength and is a testament to their skill, not proof of a lack of it. The triple Rashonin (spelling?) gates only serve to further prove Orochimaru’s strength and versatility, as opposed to counting against it.

    And that’s me for now. @__@

  37. The quote I’m looking for was in the manga 144 on page 9 or 10 but the translation I found in both manga reader and city manga differ from what I’ve read on onemanga, post I used back at IRA some time ago, I also checked the anime and it holds true to that statement but unlike the wiki you don’t want to regard as true I doubt you’ll consider the anime a viable source even if it’s a non filler episode. So I guess I’ll leave that as it is for now until I find the quote I’m searching for.

    About the Sannin fight, remember Kabuto was a massive help to Orochimaru, incapacitating Tsunade, Naruto and Shizune all on his own. I don’t need to point out how powerful and sleek Kabuto is. I don’t want to repeat what I said regarding Jiraiya’s condition in that fight and there’s a difference in knowing you have a handicap and coping with it like Orochimaru did with help from Kabuto’s medicine but it’s another situation when you’ve just woke up from a drug that took away half of your power and on top of that Jiraiya was pinned to the ground because he looked at Kabuto trying to kill Naruto not because of a superior Orochimaru, sure there’s no excuse for not paying attention to the fight your in, but it just goes to show Jiraiya cared more about his pupil then his own life.

  38. tough debate. I don’t think comparing oro to jiraya in the fights we saw is fair. Jiraya never fought oro in sage mode, the first fight we see is when oro leaves the leaf, and i’m sure jiraya wasn’t exactly on top of his game, and when oro was fighting tsunade and jiraya at the same time they were all severely limited: oro with his arms, tsunade hadn’t fought in years, and jiraya was drugged so that fight can be thrown out.

    Itachi isn’t the greatest way of comparing the two either. As a pacifist, and a man with limited use of his ms, itachi wished to fight as little as possible. He easily wiped the floor with oro, and I’m sure he could have done the same with the j-man as well, but his goal was not to capture naruto, seeing as akatuski couldn’t even seal the nine-tails and i’m sure he knew that. His main goals during that first arc was to remind the elders to leave saskue alone, and to track saskue’s progress, not to fight an all out battle with a sanin and the hidden leaf (especially since finding out that he wanted the leaf to remain strong).

    The best way of comparing jiraya and oro if we’ll wish to then compare the jman to hiruzen is thru kisame’s reactions. Kisame claimed he would die facing jiraya and that oro’s death was impressive and told itachi he should be proud of saskue, which tells me that oro and jiraya were on even terms in kisame’s mind. Therefore to me, if jiraya were to figth hiruzen in sage mode that hiruzen would eventually die but jiraya would be driven back dangerously wounded. I’m also basing this on that kisame would probably have known about oro’s eight headed snake (itachi knew after all) and his dead summons (seems like everyone knows about oro’s move in this war), and probably had heard rumors about jiraya’s sage mode. So that’s how oro and jiraya end up even in my book.

    in his prime hiruzen would probably have beaten a sage mode jiraya, but it would not have been an easy fight as three giant frogs, and a whole host of smaller combat frogs plus jiraya would not be simple, no matter how much you knew about them (especially those toad-oil flames). In an interview, kishi claimed that hiruzen and the 4th were the strongest dead shinobi (this is before itachi died) and jiraya has nothing but praise for the 4th which makes me think that he would have lost to the 4th in a head to head fight, and if that’s the case he would also probably have lost to his sensei as well. But the odds would be close i’m thinking hiruzen wins about 55% of the time and jiraya manages to win about 45% of the time with each in their primes.

  39. @Alec

    We always consider the combatants in a battle debate to be in their prime. The only real question is, when was Hiruzen at his strongest?

    If you believe he was at his strongest when he was younger, then you are welcome to use that in a debate. @___@

    Of course, there are debates where certain specific parameters are set for the debate, but in this case, we haven’t been given any such limitations.

  40. Bubble: “I have head trauma.”

    Caption: My favorite pickup line.

  41. You guys should really check out the spoiler, I left me speechless.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/71609-Naruto-549-Spoiler-Pics-Summaries

  42. @eugen: yeah, speechless is the word for it… yeah.

  43. @eugen: oops, read the spoilers, didn’t look at pics. Yeah, looks like a GREAT chapter! Can’t wait for the sub 🙂

  44. @ Arpotu, it should come out any minute now, so keep an eye on mangareader.net for the treats. All I can say from watching the pics is that this is gonna be Epic beyond anything.

  45. It’s out!!!

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/549

    The epicness has arrived! @___@

  46. Off you go guys!enjoy:http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/549

  47. I have to say I’m itching like crazy to see what Itachi is planning with the crow, and why the hell is it’s eye like Itachi’s only with four spikes instead of three. I’m guessing the reaction was to Itachi’s Mangekyo so it’s gonna be week on the edge to see what will happen next week, and to see where the discussion between the two will go.

  48. That chapter was full of win. It was epic, it had an epic battle, and it was even funny.

    When Itachi said “behind you” sneaking up on Bee, I was laughing so much. Lol.

    This is what we have been waiting for in this war! Epic battles!!! *eats everyone and then splodes from awesomeness.*

  49. That chapter was EPIC AWESOMENESS…..that is all.

  50. I hate this cliff hanger… *pulls his hair out and pastes’ it back on* Now then, I am really interested in the sage tattoo’s the thing had on its, um, neck? And the spiral on it’s shoulder? *goes to burn himself in a tanning booth*

  51. finally we get to see what the crows mean that itachi has been putting into Naruto ages ago. i really cant wait for the next chapter. been a while since i had that feeling with Naruto.

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-408-10/naruto/chapter-403.html

    I just hope its not gonna be something dissapointing after all this time kishi made us wait on this.

  52. i think what itachi gave naruto is a “tsukuyomi counter” because when itachi tried to use tsukuyomi on naruto it automatically appeared

  53. It was great to see Itachi bringing the heat on both Bee and Naruto, he even avoided Bee’s sword technique that F’ed Sasuke up. Sure Naruto took it easy on him so they could finish there little chit chat but even so Itachi rules. I’d give anything to see a Nagato vs Itachi fight both at full capacity (that means, no crippled Nagato). It was sure a great wait, and I’m sure Kishi will make this even better. The only thing is, a lot of trolls might pop out and in the situation that the crow protects Naruto from all MS powers, people will start to say it’s not his own merit and stuff like that.

    It will be really cool to see the meaning behing the crow and the fact that it had a different MS then Itachi’s.
    Could it be because of Naruto’s Uzumaki blood and the crow merged with Naruto thus resulting in a more perfect MS, or maybe (this is a speculation of mine for some time now) the MS can automatically turn into EMS with senju or uzumaki blood thus bypassing the whole “sacrifice your brother for eyes” part. So that might as well be Itachi’s EMS naturally ascending from the MS via Naruto’s linage. Kishi did a great job. THANK YOU KISHI !!!

  54. BOTH BLEACH AND NARUTO EPIC CHAPTERS !! Awesome Week for Manga 😀

  55. ooooooooooooooo new theory!
    going along with what i said earlier…”i think what itachi gave naruto is a “tsukuyomi counter” because when itachi tried to use tsukuyomi on naruto it automatically appeared”…this is what i think could happen- if my thought is correct then i bet madara actually COMPLETES his moon’s eye plan!! because then naruto would be the only person immune to the genjutsu n it’d be like Bleach..naruto vs madara & co. (aka naruto’s friends under madara’s genjutsu) hahaaaa crazynessssss.

    sorry…had a couple energy drinks back to back

  56. @pein

    You sure you read the right chapter ? 458?

  57. @dish11: dude, awesome theory. That would be awesomeness. Doesn’t the moon’s eye plan involve the nine tails though? or would naruto have to kinda beat madara without the nine tails.

  58. I’m, starting to think this is a jutsu Itachi created. I also think this jutsu has something to do with countering the genjutsu.

  59. YOSHHHHH!!!!! Awesome chapter. I’ve been waiting for this chapter for forevahhhhhhhh! The entire battle was epic and even hilarious at times. We finally get a few things resolved (that Uchiha problem) and, yes, that crow eating thang. Personally, I’m with dish. I’m thinking Itachi is testing a jutsu out on Naruto that would counter genjutsu as he knows it is Naruto’s weakness – or even EMS.

  60. **Bubble Entry**

    I got a secret for ya…I’m really a guy in drag

  61. @ahsan pein was RUI at the times.
    Bubble: Pssh I’m your aunt now give a kiss.
    Caption: It’s a trap!!!!!

  62. @dish: interesting theory. Hmm… Naruto vs Bee, anyone?

  63. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/30783368/18

    One thing we know for sure about this is that even Itachi is unsure what would happen/Would it , Whatever it is , Work or not ? So the probability of it being a new Jutsu to counter Madara’s Moon’s Eye Plan [Genjutsu] is very high .

  64. There’s one problem with the whole theory about the crow being intended to protect Naruto from Madara’s Moon Eye plan. That is, of course, the fact that Naruto has to be captured in order for the Moon’s Eye plan to work. <_<

    So, how would it protect him if he has already been defeated, captured and likely had the Kyuubi exctracted from him? X___x

    In my opinion, the crow is a booby trap similar to the one Itachi gave Sasuke that reacts when it detects the Mangyeko Sharingan and counters it in some way. What that reaction is, is another story though.

  65. Wow, I haven’t seen that much enthusiasm in the Naruto section in a long time, but then again, I’d probably give each of the series a 10 this week.
    Oh, and I guess this chapter settles the Sasuke+Itachi vs Bee+A Debate. It doesn’t matter, if Bee is a Jinchuuriki, Tsukuyomi would end his fight immediately, and the Raikage could be stopped by a simpler Genjutsu from Sasuke

  66. @Dmaxx3d

    And how did you come to that conclusion? Naruto doesn’t necessarily know that Bee can avoid Genjutsu through the Hachibi, so there is still no proof that Tsukyomi would work on Bee yet.

    On the flipside, Bee seems to be holding out against Itachi quite well so far.

    Perhaps we should wait to see what happens next before we jump to conclusions.

  67. @Dmaxx3d
    “and the Raikage could be stopped by a simpler Genjutsu from Sasuke”

    So what you are trying to say is Sasuke CAN cast Genjutsu which is strong enough to destroy the Raikage ? Itachi Tsukyomni was a 100 times better than Sasuke’s .Dont Be confused my the same name Dmaxx3d , Even an Idiot can use a gun but to hit the target is another story all together!

  68. I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve seen that crow;s eye before, it has a little resemblance to naruto’s broken seal when the kyuubi was almost freed in the Pain fight, but I know I’ve seen it somewhere else too.

    Anyway I really pleased at were the manga’s going and I’ll say it once more, Itachi is ubber badass, I so sorry he gave his life for Sasuke instead of taking his eyes. The thing I like about him the most is the way he attack right after a diversion, like he did with the great fireball tech, he links his attacks so fast and so effective it’s just the greatest thing to watch.

    Reaction time, speed, techniques and smarts make Itachi a top 5, at least, shinobi in the Narutoverse.

  69. Agree With Every word you wrote Eugen .

  70. @ Ahsan, the only thing we have left now is bash on Sasuke , right, IHS all the way ;). Why the hell did kishi kill off all the cool duded in Narutoverse, Itachi, Jiraiya, Minato, Kushina, Sarutobi, Orocimaru, Nagato, Kakauzu… and a whole lot of other great shinobi that would have given us battles full of epicness and delight, but no he left us with awesome shinobi the likes of Tenten and Ino and Kiba that amaze us with epic ninjutsu and snappy comebacks and rampages. No Kishi, why must you torment us sooo.

    Ooops sorry guys, just had something alien green and minty to drink and I think I’m starting to feel the aftermath, anyways good night to you all ;).

  71. @eugen: just don’t suck anyone’s jagon…

  72. The bird is going to do a round house kick! Road House!

  73. @ Eugen – I think Itachi is strong definitely top five but in those rankings he would be high up with Susanoo

    What I don’t understand…

    Wat the hell is Kishi doing, I really don’t wanna hear after Naruto dodges an attack “Well done my special little princess” I want the villains, this war is lame because they not fighting for anything and they not all undead warrior slaves like Zabuza, this is not really a war its a high end sparring match with your enemy being strong that is all…

    I miss the arrogant come backs, the not really knowing what gonna happen not, “hey please I am gonna do this, defend like this” fafafa
    “Well Done”

  74. @Pein

    The problem is, Nagato and Itachi are not villains anymore. So, you are expecting people who aren’t villains to act like villains, which is just weird.

    If you want villains, look to Sasuke, Madara and Kabuto.

    If you ask me, the fact that the shinobi alliance is forced to fight people who are not actually their enemies but their comrades, is what makes this different and unique. How many battles have you seen like that in a manga, where the combatants really, really don’t want to fight to the point where they want to help each other, but they can’t?

    If you want the cliched villains that you see in every other manga, then that is fine. But I find the concept of being forced to battle and possibly even kill your loved ones, quite dynamic.

  75. @Eugen

    The worst part about that was the way they were killed

    Itachi by Sasugay
    Orochimaru by Sasugay
    Nagato by Naruto

  76. Bubble – This is what happened to Naruto… Too much estrogen

    Caption – Bull crap Estrogen would make this series more many <_<

  77. @Tenrai and Ahsan: Granted, I may have rushed a little bit to come to a conclusion, but do you really think Kishi would have made Naruto say that if it would not be a dangerous situation? We have also seen that Bee was under the influence of itachis crow genjutsu for quite some time and I still think Tsukuyomi would defeat him.
    As for Sasuke, I agree, he’s pretty shitty at genjutsu, however, A has noone to snap him out of even a low standard genjutsu and to do it on his own he needs to interrupt the fight without Bee’s help who is busy with Itachi.
    I personally think that Sasuke would have stood a big chance against the Raikage if he had used logic like in the fight with Deidara(well, the first part).
    However, it may be the best if we wait for further info <_<

    On the Edo Tensei part, I just can't understand Kabuto. At this point it would be far more effective to erase the fighters personalities. That can actually be terrifying too. Just think of, say your best friend, brought back from the dead. He doesnt recognize you and won't show mercy. He's attacking you with full force while you are still hindered by your emotions. THAT'S what an army of the dead should be like, it's not as creepy if they still talk to you and ask about the wellbeing of your grandma and shit…
    Well, maybe thats just me…

  78. @ dmaxx3d,

    I personally think Sasuke wasn’t that mature to use the trump cards of the Magekyo back when he fought with A, now it’s a different situation, he has a lot more experience from the Danzou fight and a little understanding of the full power of Susano’o thx to Kakashi, I’m certain that when he’ll enter the battlefield he’ll wow us even more than Naruto has done so far, because that’s who Sasuke is. The hex guy in Naruto, and I am looking forward to a massive power up for Sasuke because that will give us far greater fights in the future.

    As far as the Edo Tensei guys go, I think they were a very big let down, at least most of them, and by far the most entertaining fight so far besides the one currently going on between Naruto, Bee, Itachi and Nagato was the one with Kakashi and the 7 swordsman of the mist and the Kekegenkai shinobi. Mainly because of the erased memories, so that is IMO what Kabuto should do if he wants to preserve his zombies and win fights.
    Maybe kabuto has a greater agenda and doesn’t really give a crap about the summons, only the ones that are very important to him.
    I hope we get to see a lot more of that fight also the old Kages fight and of course the one with Naruto.

    It feels really rushed and cheep to see so many great icons of the narutoverse bite the dust so fast, I understand the need of preserving the main shinobi in the manga, but the short fights only make then seem that much weaker. The fights should be a testament of hard work and growth and the main heroes should only win the fights against there enemies only after a very life threatening situation, like in DBZ, and burst out with awesome new jutsu that show just how much stronger they got.

    Maybe kishi is trying to finish the manga faster, but the effect it produces ruins the overall feel of the story.

  79. I just looked at the posts so far and all I can say is, WRA is back baby, thx too all the new members and the ones following us, if you like us and follow us regularly make an account and post with us because the only way we’ll get more awesomeness is with the help of all you guys and gals following us.

  80. @eugen: Edo Tensei a letdown!? Surely you haven’t forgotten Kakashi’s Rampage?!? It was the redeath of Zabuza Co. which lit *that* fire. A fire which, I might add, won’t be extinguished for 1000 years…

  81. @dmaxx3d

    If Naruto had only warned against Tsukyomi, then yes, I would have suspected that it may have been forewarning that it would even work on Bee. But Naruto warned against the MS in general and mentioned both Tsukyomi and Amatarasu as threats.

    That stands to reason because those are two jutsu Naruto has witnessed the potential of before. Of course, Naruto doesn’t know about Susanoo as far as we know, so he never warned about that.

    The point is, it was too generalized to assume that it was specifically intended to indicate to us that Itachi’s Tsukyomi would work on Bee. That in itself is still an assumption.

    I’m not saying that this means it definitely won’t work on Bee, I am just saying that it can be debated either way until a definitive answer is given one way or another. So as long as you debate your reasons why you think Tsukyomi would work on Bee, I will debate my reasons why I think it won’t. Perhaps the next chapter will prove one or the other correct.

  82. As for Kabuto’s Edo Tensei, let’s try to think of it this way…

    When Sakura and Chiyo fought Sasori, he pulled out his trump card and set hundreds of puppets on them in an effort to end the battle. It was, supposedly, his ultimate technique and yet, despite that, Sakura and Chiyo were able to hold out against it quite well.

    However, Chiyo herself remarked that the more puppets they destroyed, the more Sasori was able to concentrate on the fewer ones remaining, which made them fight more effectively. Essentially, by splitting his focus over so many puppets, Sasori lessened the effectiveness of each individual puppet’s battle strength. As more were destroyed, the remaining became more powerful.

    I think the same is happening with Kabuto’s Edo Tensei right now. Because he has to focus on controlling to many resurrected summons at once, his concentration is split and he isn’t able to effect full control properly on all of them. But, I suspect that the more that are defeated, the more Kabuto will be able to focus on the few that remain, thus, allowing him to assert better control over them and their minds. This means that the more the alliance manages to get rid of, the more dangerous the remaining ones become.

    Remember, even though Kabuto described Edo Tensei to be the ultimate jutsu, a jutsu is still subject to the flaws and weaknesses of its user. So, the holes and flaws we see in Edo Tensei right now aren’t because it is a lame jutsu, it is because the user of the jutsu is inherently unable to use it to its fullest theoretical potential. It’s kinda like how Nagato’s Chibaku Tensei wasn’t able to reach the level of power of the original Sage’s, who created the moon. It’s all about the user, at the end of the day.

    Still, when you consider that Kabuto is, essentially, taking on half the shinobi alliance with one jutsu, that says a lot for that Jutsu’s power.

  83. @Dmaxx3d

    Well It can go either way but I wont assume that the “Raikage” ;as hot headed as he is; wouldn’t be able to break simple genjutsu . I could be wrong though

    @Tenrai

    Well even though Naruto did give a general warning But In Itachi’s Tsukyomni he Controll Time/Mass and what not i.e It was what 3 days for kakashi and 1 second in the real world . I Highly Doubt that Itachi’s Tsukyomni Wont work on bee , I mean Kakashi with his sharingan was defeated! . That’s my assumption/opinion though. However One thing that this would imply is that If Itachi’s Tsukyomni can be broken , every Genjutsu [Including the Moon’s eye] Can be broken as well.

  84. I think B ca manage to break even Tsukuyome with the help of the hachibi but seeing as we haven’t seen a genjutsu of Itachi’s skill, witch is of the highest level, cast on a jinchuriki that has the help of it’s bijuu for the releasing, we can’t be sure how it will affect Bee.

    I for one say Bee has a very big chance to release the jutsu but as I said we can’t be sure until we see it. Sasuke did cast tsukuyome on Bee when they fought so even if it’s far weaker then what Itachi can do it was still a testament to the fact that a jinchuriki with full control over there bijuu can break even the best of genjutsu.

  85. @Eugen

    “can break even the best of genjutsu.”

    😦

  86. @ Ahsan, I know I might be wrong, but so far Bee & Sasuke have the best anti-genjutsu skills out there, not counting Nagato and Itachi because they got killed.

    So besides them Kakashi and Naruto might be runner ups for the job, other then that I don’t know. So far the only one who might have greater genjutsu skills would be the 2nd Mizukage. And believe it or not Sakura was supposed to be a genjutsu type. I truly hope Kishi will grant Sakura this skill to make her more useful in battle, Not to say I’m a Sakura fan or anything but it feels a little bit wrong granting Sasuke and Naruto so much power and skill, shinobi that just like Sakura studied under a Sannin so why not have her find her own powerful style in genjutsu so she might be a great asset in battle too, not just in healing and medical ninjutsu.
    She should have been better off studying under Kabuto.

  87. @Eugen: Oh, Bee will release the Genjutsu 100 %, but the deadly thing about Tsukuyomi is, that even if it takes you a second to release the jutsu, youre still screwed.
    However, this got me thinking: Itachi has the complete control of everything in the genjujtsu. Couldn’t he use that to kind of mess with Edo Tensei? Just a thought…

    And about Sakura, yes she should get stronger, but not with genjutsu. I actually can’t take any normal genjutsu user seriously after seeing Itachi in action. Do you remember who he pwned Kurenai in part 1? Good times…

  88. Too bad the Kurama clan was just a filler. Now that was some epic genjutsu.

  89. @Ahsan: Im not sure how correct i am but doesn’t it stand somewhere in the manga that genjutsu can be released if you get a chakra injection greater than the chakra used to cast the genjutsu, because if that’s the case itachi cant catch B because i highly doubt he has more chakra than a tailed beast, especially the 8T, and that’s probably all the more reason the moons eye plan should work because nothing gets close to the 10T chakra levels.

    CRAZY THEORY: What if the crow’s purpose is to free itachi from the impure resurrection and give him the ems also, then hell walk the earth once more with a bad ass ems!!!!! and then hell turn sasuke to the light side and along with naruto and B face off in epic battle against 10T, Sharinnegan, recharged, Steroid pumped madara and when only naruto is left standing, hell finish madara off with a move he learned from a friend who also has yellow hair at times. The SPIRIT RASENGAN!!!!!

  90. @Bakakage
    How would he have even guessed for a second that he would be Edo Tensei’d back to the world of the living? The Crow is there to counter the MS Jutsu, and probably little else.

    I think it will probably blind the Sharingan user who activated it, though it may not work as well on EMS. Who knows, all I know is that just about everyone who reads Naruto has been wondering when the day would come that we would be let in on the little secret.

    Just a few more days… Just a few more days…

  91. Lol, i wasnt serious about that, thus the crazy therory in caps……..

  92. Alright here is my Theory

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-147-17/naruto/chapter-142.html

    Itachi clearly states , He controls Time , Mass and Space Basically He controls E=mc2 😉 . Itachi could Make Anything happen that Could render the 8tails unable to wake up Bee. Furthermore it only take a second . I mean 1 second ? A normal Human’s reaction time is 0.2 Seconds . That’s 0.2 seconds for The Biju to realize bee is in Gen-jutsu , 0.2 Seconds for him to punch bee to wake him up and 0.2 Seconds [Ideal timing] for bee to actually snap out of it , That is however if he wakes up at once that .6 seconds in total . Wonder how many times itachi would have stabbed Him during that time.

    Of course i understand that this is a manga and you can’t quote real life facts . But the thing is Tsukyomni isn’t a “Normal” Genjutsu .As i said above In it Itachi Controls everything and It only takes a second . Here is the conversation of Chiyo and kakashi to further support my point

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-262-6/naruto/chapter-257.html
    and
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-262-7/naruto/chapter-257.html

  93. “bakakage

    ” What if the crow’s purpose is to free itachi from the impure resurrection and give him the ems also, then hell walk the earth once more with a bad ass ems!!!!!”‘

    You get 100 Awesomeness points for that !

  94. @bakakage: are… are you saying… that Itachi… will be the new Sage of Six Paths? Oh, Naruto’s gonna be disappointed…

  95. So who bought the own domain update?

  96. easy debate,the third hokage hiruzen sarutobi would wipe the floor with jiraiya even with sage mode and im talking about hiruzen being at the peak of his power when he was young…this guy managed to fight the 2 first hokage’s and orochimaru while being old with his chakra and stamina at his lowest ah and the hokage’s couldn’t be killed and if you remember the fight he managed to stick and explosive tag to them and thats how he realized he had to seal them

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