Naruto 543 Breakdown – That’s right, this is the first on-time single-chapter Naruto breakdown you’ve seen in MONTHS. Damn, I spoil you guys. Official Bubblition contest inclusive!!

Oh crap. It’s that time of the week again, isn’t it? You know, I wish holidays lasted longer. Just 24 hours ago I was chillin’ in my hotel room with a beautiful woman and a home-cooked meal. Then, you know, a little bit of this led to a little bit of that and before you know it… I’m all alone and back in my cold, empty room scribbling on a virtual wall for you guys. FML. But don’t get me wrong, I love you guys too. Just not as much as free cable and room service. Uh, I mean- what?

This week's fanart by klnothincomin, featured on Mangastream after this week's Naruto release. Looks like something straight outta the anime. Click here to visit his page on Deviantart.com

I personally don’t see what everyone’s problem is with this weeks chapter. I personally thought it was AWESOME. We got to see some more Yellow Flash action, the fight between the Raikage and Naruto resumed, Tsunade finally grew a pair and acknowledged that her duty is first and foremost to her village and the people under her care, and Bee bitchslapped the Raikage like Casey Heynes on steroids. Though I must admit, Sage-Kyuubi Naruto has been a bit of a let-down thus far. Perhaps the Raikage was too high a standard to benchmark the Nine-Tails Jinchuuriki against?

I dunno, but I’m burning to see Naruto utterly destroy someone with his newfound power. And you’re all probably burning to see this breakdown over with already. So enough with the chit-chat, let’s get straight to business, yeah?

BREAKDOWN

Minato: Pfffft. Bitch.

Chapter 543 starts with a continuation of the Minato vs Kumo Squad flashback. The future Raikage’s trademark incurable bullheadedness is shrugged off by an increasingly awesome Minato Namikaze. He’s just too damn cool, seriously. Thinking he had Minato figured out, A rushes headfirst towards the Konoha-nin, who shunpo’s behind Killer Bee and holds a kunai to the back of his head. Which is weird, considering the fact that the skull is the best-protected area of the body, but meh. That’s not the interesting part. The interesting part is the fact that Killer Bee seemed to have been anticipating Minato’s movements to the point that he had a sword drawn and pointed in the right direction before Minato appeared behind him. And this being the second time he’s intercepted an attack from the World’s Fastest Shinobi.

What I really love about this chapter is the fact that before now, the Raikage was a God with no weakness. Yet, in the space of a single flashback, we have seen him so outclassed that Bee has had to step in to save his ass. Not just once, but TWICE. I guess my opinion of Bee had dropped significantly since the total ass-rape that was the Kisame fight that I honestly thought of him as little more than a joke of a ninja. But now… damn.

FYI: The black liquid is NOT ink. Just sayin'.

Anyway, back to the present, with Naruto taking advantage of the Raikage’s distraction to attempt to escape, but to no avail. So Kishi being Kishi decides that numerous obscure penile references weren’t good enough and throws in a hefty dose of tentacle pr0n. Because let’s face it: Manga is not manga without tentacle pr0n. After a quick little “skirmish”, The Raikage hurls Bee and Naruto to the floor and calls for the Hokage’s aid in defeating the two Jinchuuriki. And then, she did what I was hoping she’d do: she stood up for Naruto.

You know what, I get it. I understand that keeping Naruto away from the battlefield is probably the best way to keep Madara from succeeding with his world domination plan thingy. Hell, I was ticked off when Iruka basically let Naruto off the island. But the Raikage was way out of line by impulsively deciding to kill Naruto. The General of an Alliance is not given free reign to decide whether individuals who would otherwise be outside his or her control should die or not. His title is bestowed upon him by consensus, as is the power he wields. The Hokage would have been well within her rights to pull Konoha’s support from the war effort. The wisdom of such a decision would have been another story entirely, but the point still stands. The fact is, the Raikage risked the stability of the Joint Shinobi Alliance and Konoha’s militarian support when he said that he’d kill Naruto. It really just reaffirms to me how unfit the man is to lead such a massive army, and good on Tsunade for stepping in. I just wish she’d done it sooner.

Bee charges at the Raikage, and another flashback ensues. Nothing terribly exciting, just a rare moment of emotion from A the day of his father’s funeral service.

I know. I was gutted when I found out, too. D:

But it was what followed that was undeniably the highlight of this chapter. The two Lariat masters putting their resolve into action and charging at each other with everything that they had. I expected Bee to emerge victorious, but it was so satisfying to actually see it happen. Bee has changed greatly since his character’s introduction. He was a powerful combatant to be sure, but he had this stroke of immaturity that held him back, stopping him from being as powerful as he was capable of being. He treated his fight with Sasuke as little more than a game, and he nearly lost his life as a result. Even when fighting Kisame, he appeared distracted, constantly stopping to jot down rap lyrics and relying on the Eight Tails for intel (especially during the water bubble scene). He only survived because Samehada turned into a chakra-whore and betrayed Kisame. But this time, he overpowered his opponent purely on his own steam, and has emerged as one of the manga’s most powerful shinobi. An excellent chapter, indeed.

But it worked for Gai! Damn you Kishi, you racist bastard!

So there you have it, people. The way is officially paved for Naruto and Bee to enter the fray. The coming chapters promise much action and story progression and I for one can’t wait.

AWESOMENESS EXTRAS

First off, I’d like to take this time to welcome a new member to the WRA community. Now, I don’t know the person, but I do appreciate the effort they made to start an account just to tell us slackers not to give up on the blog. Comments like yours are especially appreciated, zenithshadow. Welcome to the fold. XD

Now, some of you have voiced your opinions as to the future of these breakdowns. Increased commenter interaction, more debates, all that jazz. However, I’m not sold on whether there’ll be enough people commenting on here for these things to really take flight, at least not at the moment. So I leave it to you guys. Tell me what debate you’d like to see in the next breakdown, and if enough people participate, the most popular debate idea will be featured in next weeks breakdown! And also if you have any ideas as to what other features you’d like to see in the breakdowns, I’m open to suggestions. Either leave me a post in the comment section below or shoot me an email at jourdahndavid@gmail.com. Love to hear your thoughts.

But for now, the return of an old fan favourite: the Bubblition contest.

Insert caption here.

Have fun, stay safe and always be awesomeness!

 

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~ by DarkAvatar on June 18, 2011.

289 Responses to “Naruto 543 Breakdown – That’s right, this is the first on-time single-chapter Naruto breakdown you’ve seen in MONTHS. Damn, I spoil you guys. Official Bubblition contest inclusive!!”

  1. Great breakdown, posted so quick for the first time in months.. you sir are awesomeness like Bee!

  2. sweetness. much agreed with you i thought this chapter was awesome.

    @debate- there was a lil one goin on with pein vs. minato in the last breakdown, should be nice n controversial : )

  3. Very nice breakdown, Dark’s. I must say, at times it is hard to differentiate the write of the breakdown in regards to the humor, as you and pickles writing styles are very much alike. Nonetheless, i agree with zzattack. This breakdown was nothing short of awesomeness.

    Way to bring back an Ira original, the bubble post competition. As for the debate, Sasuke vs pein anyone?

  4. Congratulations on the break down Darks, it was on of the great one, keep up the good work.

    You actually caught my eye with something a bit taboo, Bee did anticipate Minato two times and with very rare precision if I might add. I was thinking a while back on how people who cover there eyes in Naruto have something really important back there.

    I’m not implying Bee has the sharingan, because by now that would be to cliche, but he might have a doujutsu of some sort hidden behind those glasses of his.

    As for a Sasuke vs Pain debate, it’s a bit soon, because Sasuke is just about to get the biggest power up so far and I really want to see the full extent of that power before I try and pit him against Pain in the arena.
    As of his current level, and taking away the blindness, I’d personally say Sasuke would stand a far better chance against Pain then Naruto and Jirayia did.

    Sasuke has Amateratsu to take care of unwanted paths like Naraka, he has Susanoo to fend off any unwanted attack from summons and human path and even Deva himself, and he has Tsukuyome to temporarily create openings for final killer blows.

    On top of that he also has the advantage of possessing the Sharingan to figure out Pain secret and abilities. The sharingan with also slows everything down for him, so precision and effectiveness will be at his disposal.
    All in all I give sasuke a good chance against Pain as far as being a good match up, but I won’t go as far as say he can beat Pain.

  5. Can I get a moderator status here, please, I need to fix a lot of my typos due to my crappy keyboard. Plus any help with the break downs in the future I’ll gladly offer my services if needed.

    I meant “It was one of the great ones” Darks.

  6. You should be able to edit your own comments Eugen.

    As for the debate, i was just throwing a suggestion as darks suggested. What do you think we should debate about?

  7. @ Marks, we could do the Sasuke vs Pain or the Minato vs Pain like dish suggested, but I would like to know what would you guys think about Bee vs Naruto??

  8. BUBBLITION : Right to Left
    Bubble 1: 私はもうあなたを知らない
    Bubble 2: 別の言語を話しているようなそれは
    Bubble 3: Google翻訳は最高です

  9. My bad for throwing something so unrelated like this into discussion but did anyone notice how much uchiha generations look alike??

    Sasuke looks so much like Madara except with shorter hair and Itachi resembles Izuna.
    Another two uchiha I found very similar just recently are Kagami, Danzou’s former teammate, and Shisui. These last to are almost identical, both in facial looks and the hair also. Maybe Shisui was a relative or even a child of Kagami.

  10. Great breakdown … Thank You Darks!

    Bubblition
    A1. I can’t believe you Bee
    A2. That was the last Eggo
    B1. But you let go!

  11. I think everyone needs to look at this from the Raikage’s perspective. We as readers know that Naruto, as the hero, will come out on top and all of his decisions will end up being the ‘right’ ones. The Raikage has no way of knowing this. From his perspective, he has a rude, upstart 16-year-old (who days earlier begged him not to kill an international terrorist who was his ‘friend’, which I’m sure doesn’t help matters) disobeying orders. For someone as militant as the Raikage, that’s pretty much a reason to kill just about anyone, no questions asked. Because Naruto is the Kyuubi Jinn, he gets a little more leeway, but not much.

    Tsunade…ugh. She’s just weak-willed and useless. A obviously doesn’t want to kill Naruto, he just needs the kid to stay off the battlefield. Sh went there with A to stop Naruto but instead she came up with some bogus excuse just to do what she always does; let Naruto do whatever the hell he wants regardless of the repercussions.

  12. @everyone – thanks for the love!

    @kisu – regardless of his personal misgivings, the Raikage had no right to even attempt to kill a shinobi of one of his allied nations. In an alliance, participants loan each other their militarian support when necessary. Power is borrowed, not owned. Can you imagine the fallout if say America executed an Australian soldier, without even so much as a trial or even consulting Australian authorities? Kisu, that’s grounds for war. The Raikage is too bullheaded for his own good.

  13. I have too agree with Darks. The raikage lets his anger make the decisions for him as we have seen. Its one of the reasons Bee left and he also lost a hand because of it.

    @ Kisu: “From his perspective, he has a rude, upstart 16-year-old (who days earlier begged him not to kill an international terrorist who was his ‘friend’, which I’m sure doesn’t help matters) disobeying orders. For someone as militant as the Raikage, that’s pretty much a reason to kill just about anyone, no questions asked.”

    Yes. Anyone who begs for the life of a friend certainly and undoubtedly deserves to die. <_<

  14. @Marks, I didn’t say that. Naruto is only going into war because he’s selfish. He says he can’t live with himself if people die for him. Yeah, he’s doing this to not feel like shit in the morning, just like Sasuke. Lol, funny how they’re so much alike.

    @Darks, try to look at it from Raikage’s point-of-view. The kid is endangering the ENTIRE WORLD. Not the 80,000 shinobi, but billions of people not associated with the Shinobi world at all. If I lived in the Naruniverse I’d make a statue of the Raikage for doing that. In a case like this you HAVE to make ugly choices. It’s the world or 1 guy.

    It doesn’t seem logical to me to deploy your last resort, win or die superweapon (Jinchuriki) when you don’t know where to send it, your opponent’s capabilities, your weapon’s comparative use, etc. Especially when unleashing that weapon is what your opponent wants.

  15. @kisuzachi: I don’t know one person in the manga that isn’t selfish on a certain level. In general, all people are selfish one way or another. I’d say Naruto is no more selfish than the Raikage. They are both fighting for their own ideals.

    I think the important difference between the two strategies is that Naruto is a wild card. If they lose him to Madara – the war is over. So when relying on old methods of power, logically they would be better off closing off Naruto from the war. But it may be Naruto and Bee that help win the war. And when Naruto wins a battle, he doesn’t just kill off his opponents. He changes them.

    I think it is clear that old school ninja war is perpetuating the customs that Naruto is trying to break away from – like the cycle of hatred thing. Perhaps they are selfish ideals, but Naruto is one of the only ninja to back his own ideas up. The point is Naruto has been able to do unthinkable things with his ‘ninja way’ and he may end up providing a real answer for peace. To endure such a task is very unselfish.

  16. @kisu –

    “In a case like this you HAVE to make ugly choices. It’s the world or 1 guy.”

    Really? Because the way I see it, the choice he was about to make could have splintered the Joint Shinobi Alliance and forced the Hokage to pull her village from the alliance. Without Konoha’s support, it is more than likely that the war effort will fail. By sacrificing one guy, he could potentially be sacrificing the world along with it, and then who’s better off?

    What you don’t understand is that to some extent, I agree with you. I do not see the benefit of sending your heaviest hitters into the battlefield without first knowing the full extent of your opponents capabilities. Which is why I fully supported the Raikage’s decision to intercept Naruto and Bee and prevent them from entering the war. What I do not support, however, was the Raikage making the personal decision to kill Naruto (who is the jinchuuriki of a village completely outside the Raikage’s jurisdiction) and his complete disregard to how Konoha and its Hokage would feel about it.

    If a peaceful solution couldn’t be achieved, then incapacitation would have been fine. But not murder. It isn’t within his power.

  17. “I think it is clear that old school ninja war is perpetuating the customs that Naruto is trying to break away from”

    This is what I hate the most about this manga. Anyone who doesn’t agree with Naruto’s ideals is instantly the devil. Say what you will about Bleach, but at least it isn’t preachy and doesn’t make everyone have to agree with Ichigo. Everyone’s philosophy is different. Example; Squad 11 loves to fight and will do anything for battle, while Squad 9 loves peace and tries to be very orderly, but neither of the two are presented as good or evil. They just have differing opinions. Naruto has lost EVERY SINGLE debate since Chapter 436 and Kishi expects us to agree with him and be on his side? Sorry, not me.

  18. HAHA yes I AM back…sort of. Yeah. But I missed 17 chapters of this…so I’ll see you guys in four months when I’ve caught up:D

    But I’ll take advantage of the bubblition anyway Q_Q

    Bubble on the right:
    Raikage: What do you want?
    Man: Did you know…with geico…you can save 15 percent or more on your car insurance?
    Bubble on the left:
    Raikage: …did Tsunade REALLY grow a pair?

    *flies away*

  19. Last week I decided not to give Naruto any rhymes cuz he’s being an annoying asshole, but I decided to gather all of my hatred for him:

    Yeah, Naruto’s being a little prick,
    Breaking orders and being dumb is his schtick.
    He ain’t listening shit
    He knows Gedo Maz’ll suck him dry like a tick
    So why did destiny pick,
    This little blonde country hick?
    He’ll save the world? Nah that’s a trick,
    Cuz at this rate the world’s gonna burn like a candle wick.
    Anyway lemme say this rea’ rea’ quick
    The guy’s got a hot Hyuga chick
    But he only does her in Fanfics,
    He’s too busy wanting to take Sasuke’s disco stick
    His mind’s gotta be sick,
    Dude’s got problems staring at an Armadillo’s dick!

  20. @kisu –

    Now why you hatin’ baby?
    He ain’t done shit to you.
    You been so crazy lately,
    Jealousy, through and through.
    And while I’m patient, waitin’,
    For-the-time he makes it to,
    The war they wagin’, maybe
    You’ll see green ain’t for you.

    Gather round while I tell the story,
    Let Avatar show you how,
    Your flow sucks and your lyrics are boring,
    And they don’t do our “blonde hick” proud.
    The man’s got the world as his burden,
    Enough to drop another man to his knees,
    What’s the best thing you’ve done lately?
    Stuff all, bro you can’t compete.

  21. It’s true Bleach has more open minded characters with there own beliefs and concepts, but Kisu remember all nations in Naruto, and the manga it’s self for that matter, revolves around there personal creed.

    Take for instance the Hidden Leaf, they believe in the Will Of Fire, all people in this town are brought up to live by this knowledge and spirit, so it’s actually no surprise it’s such a one sided manga when everyone has there own creed and stick by it with there heart and soul.

    Many others inherit that will from there masters and teachers, like the example of Naruto and Jirayia.

    As for the fact that Naruto didn’t stay away with Bee, I’ll say this again: Why did everyone who is against this problem all of a the blue think Gaara, who was the one that suggested this from the start only having Mizukage as backup, was right and made the right call in sending them to be protected???

    I for one would have listened to people like Oonogi, the raikage and Tsunade as well, the most decisive factor being, all three kages have more experience then Gaara and Mizukage will ever have in there whole life.

    Anyway that’s just how I see this situation, maybe sometimes is better to step aside and listen to younger blood, but not in this situation, where neither Gaara nor Mizugake have seen as much action as A, Oonoki and Tsunade.

    So the decision should have been left to the older more experienced Kages, not let themselves be swayed by Gaara’s pacifist and cautious ways. I can understand the poor guy being scared for Naruto and not wanting him to go through what he went in order to protect his village and friends but that doesn’t comply to this situation, this is war and everybody is fighting against the enemy. There’s no need to try and protect the people on the battlefield because that’s what there their to do.

    I for one think that’s the only reason Gaara chose not to fight by Naruto’s side, but just as I said earlier, the situation is changed and the same rules don’t apply to this war as what happened when Deidara came for the Shukaku.

    So for my part I choose to back up Tsunade and Oonoki rather then Mizukage and Gaara this time around, for the obvious reason of them having more knowledge and experience then the younger Kages.

  22. O_O I’m guessing there’s a lot of people from ” the hidden cloud ” on the blog lol. Everybody knows Hip Hop goes str8 to the heart.

  23. Bubble1 : Oh my God this burns like hellllll !!!!
    Bubble2 : It’s all that damn Tenrai’s fault, I knew I shouldn’t have eaten Pickles.
    Bubble3 : What the fu@& is that thing coming out of you bro !?!?!?!

    First bubble ever for me.

  24. By bad
    Caption: it’s not called cannibalism if you yell surprise just before you eat them.

  25. how can I edit my post after posting??? A little help please guys.

  26. @Eugen

    You need to be a Mod, If you are one a small icon of edit would appear alongside every comment 🙂

  27. Let me test one thing >_>

    Test
    Ing

  28. I was just wondering

    If Raikage > Naruto and Bee > Raikage so Bee > naruto ?

    And How can Naruto > Sasuke or Naruto > Madara when Naruto < Raikage ?

  29. @ Raikage vs Naruto debate –

    The way I see it, Kisu does make a lot of sense, what are the Raikage’s options,

    A) Let Naruto Go through to a battlefield
    B) Stop Naruto and restrain him
    C) Kill Naruto.

    If he follows A, Naruto will be happy, Bee too and Tsunade will probably faint from joy of not having to do anything again, but lets say that Naruto is caught and the Kyuubi is extracted then what? Who will we then Blame, it will be Raikage’s fault for not being a strong leader. In a war you can’t just give into your troops its about sacrifice.

    If he had Tsunade and Bee on his side he could follow this approach but unfortunately he can’t

    Kill Naruto is extreme, I will give you that, but lets say a soldier goes to his commanding officer and refuses to follow orders he is then court marshelled. In a real world situation this is like a war for Nuclear Weapons, if the soldier gaurding the weapons decides to enter into a territory that can lead to the weapons being taken, what will happen? The Leaders must eliminate the “traitor”

    Naruto is more then just the host and we all know that, but having that power gives him the responsibility to look after it too, to not just flaunt a power cause he can. Why not have him go with Raikage to the leader centre?

    A battle is won by timing, everyone knows that, follow any war and you will see that attacking at the right time with the right amount of force is usually more potent then just throwing power continuasly.

    Each of you, please if you can drive or own a car find someone HALF to about a 3RD your age and ask them to drive you home, hand them the keys and hope for the best. Cause that is what you expecting of the Raikage.

  30. @ Pein, sure a battle plan must be made very precisely and must be executed down to the T, if there’s any chance for a perfect win. But remember one thing, in war variables are introduced at every minute and adaptations should be made accordingly.

    Apparently Shikamaru’s dad is the general in charge of the Shinobi army’s strategy and battle plan. As of the start of the war he pretty much had everything under control, but when things like the white Zetsus infiltration came in the picture, he was faced with finding the best, quickest and with the least casualties solution available.

    This is the best timing for Naruto and Bee to join the fight, on one hand Naruto can now detect the bad guys with his new Spidey Sense and Bee has samehada with can drain the Zetsus dry of there chakra.

    As far as a counter strike, you can’t do better then that, even Ao said the sensor squad can’t tell the difference between the impostors and the real shinobi, so trying to come up with bizzare and risky strategies to counter the zetsus, Bee and Naruto are the fastest and most efficient solution there is.

    The thing is we’re all locking at the narutoverse as out own societies but there more like the we were more then 1000 years ago, when expansion and conquering were at there peak, so it’s understandable why shinobi take risks like that in some instances.

    At the end of the day it all comes down to human nature, and everyone said Naruto and Bee would, and I quote, ” Bring more chaos to the battle field”, but I doubt that description was accurate in describing there resolve on the battlefield more so it was directed to there personalities and I find that a little rude .

    Anyway, Naruto and Bee rule, end of rant.

  31. @pein –

    “If he had Tsunade and Bee on his side he could follow this approach but unfortunately he can’t”

    If the Raikage had not attempted to kill Naruto, Tsunade probably WOULD have been on his side.

    “Kill Naruto is extreme, I will give you that, but lets say a soldier goes to his commanding officer and refuses to follow orders he is then court marshelled.”

    Of course. However, insubordination is hardly grounds for execution. Besides, using the court-martial example requires that the person in question be subject to a court hearing, something that the Raikage didn’t bother with when he decided to kill another village’s jinchuuriki.

    You see the benefits, but ignore the possible repercussions. Let’s say the Raikage does kill Naruto without any sort of consultation with Konoha and it’s authorities, including the Hokage. What happens then? Do you honestly think the people of Konoha will just let it go, the people who Naruto had just saved from an invasion by one of the strongest shinobi in the Narutoverse, Pein and his Six Paths? Do you think that the Hokage, who has acted as a maternal figure to Naruto since meeting him several years ago, will also just let it slide?

    Hell no.

    Not only will Konoha nin break away from the alliance, but on top of that , a life was taken and so a life will be asked for in return. The life of the murderer, who in this case is the Raikage. To some, this would be fitting, considering the fact that Kumo had demanded the life of Hiashi Hyuuga when he killed one of their shinobi who had attempted to abduct his daughter. I’m sure that particular incident was never forgotten by more than just a few of the inhabitants of the Leaf.

    Obviously, the Raikage will not offer his life as penance for taking Naruto’s, and tension between Kumo and Konoha will escalate to breaking point, and will eventually lead to an all-out war between the two villages. Obviously the Joint Shinobi Alliance would have self destructed long before this point, leaving Madara and his Zetsu army free to pick off the weakened and seperated villages one by one. Is this your idea of a preferable solution, pein?

    Again, incapacitating Naruto would have been fine. If he can kill him, he can knock him out.

  32. for debate a battle between the kin-gin brothers and naruto

  33. @ Madararrancar, :))) lol I can only imagine how short that fight will be.

    At the rate Naruto uses ‘Tebayo’ he’d be inside the crimson gourd in no time at all.

  34. @Eugen so true didn’t thought about that part
    but my interest is in them having a battle in kyuubi mode because i want to see their control of the chakra (even doe it doesn’t compare to naruto now)

  35. @ madararrancar, true enough. I think that the Kin Gin have a very good control over the chakra due to the fact that they should not have the Kyuubi’s presence inside there hearts, so the loosing control part should not occur in the Kin Gin’s transformation.

    What I am wondering the most is how far can they evolve, Tails wise, because KInkaku only went 4 tails I think before being jarred by Darui. Could he able to use more then 4 tails under his complete control I wonder.

    Excepting the treasures I think Naruto would kick there asses str8 in the dirt, with nothing more then sage mode. But given the KIN GIN style of using those weapons so well, the only chance Naruto has is not to be touched by the rope. If he manages to keep clear of the rope I think Naruto has 85% chances of mopping the floor with these guys.

    I just can’t understand how they managed to whoop Tobirama Senju’s ass all those years ago.

  36. i think it says somewhere in the manga that it was a surprise attack on tobirama, so that’s the only reason i can think of for him to be defeated by KinGin. i’ll look for it real quick

  37. @ Dish, I think it was something like a staged coup d’etat when Tobirama meat with the 2nd Raikage. But even still, if it was like the rakage an the hokage against those two an d maybe a few other rogue ninja, in my mind it still should have been a easy task for the kages.

  38. ah yeah that’s definitely what it was. idk man this might be a time when i would actually welcome a flashback to it haha

  39. I know what you mean, especially since we have so much fragmented bits of info on Tobirama, yet we know almost nothing about him. And this was the man who was Sarutobi’s master and one of the greatest shimobi in the narutoverse, pioneering jutsus that are S rank or forbidden. I’m really curious as tho who was Hashirama’s and Mito’s child, this kid should have been as close to the Younder son of the Rikudo Sage as if he was a direct blood connection. Yet we have no info about him, I for one think Tobi has something big to do with his son/daughter.

  40. regarding the son of shodai hokage wouldn’t tsunade know something it is her father after all so we just need some kind of flashback from her

    and correct me if I’m wrong it still not very clear to me wasn’t tobirama “defeated” by some elite squad of the cloud can’t remember the name or was it when he was with second raikage

  41. Yeah I guess it was Tsunade’s mother or father, strange that she has no real kekegenkai or special abilities seen so far.

    As for Tobirama, It’s stated that he supposedly died at the time of Danzou’s flashback.
    After he appointed Sarutobi as Hokage he should have been the one who engaged the enemy who were the “Kinkaku Force” (I don’t know if that means they were Kinkaku and Ginkaku plus some other followers, or just underlings) I guess if they were underlings of the KIN GIN bros. they wouldn’t have been much of a threat to Tobirama, who actually had the surprise attack om his side. But it’s said that’s when he died. Otherwise I guess he wouldn’t pass the status of kage onto Sarutobi so early in both there lives.

    I hope he didn’t died then and there, but that’s the story so far. I actually wish for a Hashirama, Tobirama vs Izuna and Madara gaiden from kishi for a long time now.

    Something I guess we all would like to see.

  42. I recently heard a rumor that maybe has some truth to it, that Tsunade is actually Naruto’s “Granny Tsunade”.
    The rumor is that Minato was Tsunade’s own son and that Naruto inherited the Senju and Uzumaki pure blood from both his mother and father. There were a lot of speculation to who was Minato’s dad, many say it was Dan, and that the Spirit Transformation Technique Dan was supposed to do is in fact a very fast body flicker technique that gives the illusion of a real ghost moving because of the very fast speed to witch he moves at.

  43. i’ve definitely thought about that before. i mean if we want to apply this to a real world scenario, it’s a fairly proven fact that if both parents of a child are very athletic, then their child/children will likely also be very athletic..if not even more so. therefore shouldn’t the child of 2 elite shinobi be even better than his/her parents because they have the genes of both parents?

  44. but never mind i just disproved myself because asuma is definitely not in hiruzen’s league haha

  45. @dish11 – Not necessarily. If a child is born to two athlete parents, it is not guaranteed that he or she will be an athlete too. It purely means that the child will inherit strong genes which will allow the child to reach the same level of athletic ability slightly easier than another child of the same age. They’d still need to work hard for it.

  46. @ Raikage vs Naruto debate –

    Concerning:
    A) Let Naruto Go through to a battlefield
    B) Stop Naruto and restrain him
    C) Kill Naruto.

    B and C obviously hold huge consequences for their side of the war. Killing Naruto should actually be unthinkable without some sort of way to contain the Nine Tails Fox. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there have been a lot of references in the manga saying Naruto should not be killed because of potentially unleashing the beast. Therefore, it would be stupid on the Raikage’s part to shoot first and ask questions later. Stopping Naruto and restraining him would just… well it would be pretty damned hard to do considering Naruto’s power level at this point. Not to mention Naruto is the main character – restraining him or killing him means bad things for the story itself whether or not it is a bad decision.

    Letting Naruto go through to the battlefield seems like a logical conclusion. To restrain Naruto would take a guard similar to his power level. And taking Naruto and a similar amount of power off the table in the war – that might be a mistake. Besides, in the manga we are still dealing with two choices, not three. It is: Let Naruto go into battle, or don’t let him go into battle. I still say that the reason for this is tied to a running theme in the manga. Old and New. New generations vs Old generations. Sire vs. student. Father vs. Son. The old school kages (except for Gaara) have been all about continuing the war – thinking that overpowering the enemy will be a means to an end. And in the story, it never has been a means to an end. The whole story is pointing towards finding peace. So it is vital to the story that Naruto change things, and stop the ninja wars (the cycle of hatred). So this idea of Naruto being either caged or unleashed is a separate confrontation between the old and the new. The old people want to put him in a cage. The new blood wants him to get out there and be a peace keeper. And hopefully that is what most of the audience wants.

    Now, about the arguments about ‘realistic situations’ and ‘comparing to real wars’. I think it is kind of silly to say that everyone knows that wars are won with timing. I could also say that timing alone is NEVER why a war is won. So, I won’t argue against the ‘wars are won with timing’ thing… Because I think it is silly to bring THAT MUCH detail to this argument. None of us here are war strategists or four star generals. I’m just looking at patterns in the story and in the manga itself.

    The car example is a bit silly too. (This is directed at pein0avenue). If I have a car: no. I would not give my keys to just any ten year old. However, this is not what is happening. Yes, the Raikage is better than Naruto in pure speed. But they are in similar classes when all things are considered (that is just my opinion). So it would be more like giving keys to an absolute expert ten year old driver that had won Daytona 500.

    And for kisuzachi: No one is saying Raikage is the devil. We have all considered his choices. We’re just saying the better one is letting Naruto do what he does best – instead of ‘kaging’ him… Ha ha… Ha ha… *ahem* Anyways, kisu, it sounds like you want a little bit to be non-conformist or to dismiss Naruto’s character. I don’t think we are supposed to agree with Naruto all the time, but I do like the character because they are exploring a young man’s idea of preserving the peace in a world torn by hatred and war. So as far as his character goes, I still am interested in seeing what he does in the future.

  47. “None of us here are war strategists or four star generals.”

    No, but I do have a vested interest in politics and negotiation. I was just offering up the possible political ramifications of such a choice.

  48. Hey guys. It’s been a while since I’ve commented on here, but life has been hectic.

    Anyway, to add my two cents to the “Let Naruto join the battle” or “Kill him/restrain him” scenario, let’s just think about the bigger picture here. There are two ways this war could play out, regardless of whether or not the Jinchuuriki join the battle.

    Those two involve either winning the war, or losing the war and it is those two ultimatums that will inevitably determine the fate of the world, regardless of any other circumstances involved.

    So, whether or not Naruto or Bee should join the war should be a question that takes this ultimatum into account. This leaves us with two scenarios.

    1: On the one hand, if Naruto and Bee don’t join the war, then the risk of them being captured is reduced significantly. However, conversely, the risk of the alliance losing the war is increased significantly as well. If the alliance loses the war, the result is essentially the same as the Jinchuuriki being captured, because hope is then lost because Bee and Naruto won’t be able to stand up to Madara and his allies on their own.

    2: On the other hand if Bee and Naruto do join the war, the risk of losing the war is reduced significantly because of the addition of their power, but in return, the risk of them being captured is increased because they are more exposed. If Naruto and Bee are captured, then the situation is the same as losing the war in scenario 1.

    So what does this mean?

    It means that neither path is less risky than the other, because both are simply swapping one equally pertinent risk in favor of another. So, you can’t say Naruto is wrong for wanting to join the war, in the same way you can’t say the Raikage is wrong for wanting to stop him. Both paths have equal risks and both can lead to doom or victory. The only difference in either choice is the feelings of the individual and the moral implications of each choice.

    Naruto doesn’t want his friends to die for him if he knows his contribution could save them. Those are his feelings and there is nothing wrong with that. Raikage wants to protect his brother from harm most of all and he also wants to ensure victory without what he feels is a risk and there’s nothing wrong with that either. At the end of the day, I just see this flaming as pointless because there are reasonable and favorable points in everyone’s argument and you can’t really say either way is better or worse.

    All you have to do is ask yourself. If you knew both paths contained equal risk, which would you choose then based on the remaining moral factors? That is how I see it, at the end of the day.

  49. As for the Raikage vs Naruto talk and who is stronger, let’s not forget that there wasn’t a single instance where Naruto actually even tried to attack the Raikage. Every move he made was simply to get passed him and because the Raikage can match him in terms of speed, he was obviously able to block Naruto’s attempts. That’s all there is to it.

    I didn’t see Naruto throw a single punch or try to launch an attack that entire time, so I doubt he had any intentions to fight at all.

    That means that assuming who is stronger based on something that essentially wasn’t a battle at all, is just going to lead to inaccurate conclusions. We can have a serious Naruto vs Raikage debate when we’ve actually seen Naruto in action with his new chakra cloak, action that doesn’t just involve him trying to outmaneuver someone with the same speed as him. Then everyone can choose sides as they please. Right now, however, a lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on little or no evidence.

  50. Sorry, if I’m going off topic or debate. I was looking at the Naruto Anime (sasuke’s prelimanary round) and noticed how strongly he resembled Shisui when Sasuke was about to complete the lions barrage. I think he might have the special ability that Shisui had. How else would people believe he is bad? He might be playing everyone into thinking he has sided with Madara. How else would it be passible that he’d side with the person that help kill his entire clan? I have been starting to seriously doubt Sauske is bad. I am thinking he wants to gain the powers to not fight Naruto but to help him defeat Madara. Yes! That means that Sauske was playing Madara! Using the same Shisui technique. Even Madara “himself” acknowledged the power of Shisui’s technique when he was looking over the corpse of Danzo (and Shisui’s crushed eye). So maybe it can even affect Madara without him noticing. Expert analysis anyone?

  51. @tenrai – Hey buddy! Long time no talk, eh?

    “All you have to do is ask yourself. If you knew both paths contained equal risk, which would you choose then based on the remaining moral factors?”

    This assumes that winning the war and keeping Naruto away from Madara are of equal importance, which they are not. The war is in direct response to the Kage’s refusal to hand the remaining jinchuuriki over to Madara, as can be seen here:

    http://www.mangabit.com/manga/naruto/chapter/467/page/18

    The war is Madara’s way of punishing the Kages for disobeying Madara. If all-out war was important, he wouldn’t have offered the Kage’s a way out of it. Ultimately, his goal is to get his hands on Naruto and Bee, which means that winning the war is secondary in importance to keeping Naruto and Bee away from Madara. Keeping Naruto away from the war is without a doubt the smarter choice.

  52. @ Wiseman, I have been thinking about that for a very long time, not the part about Shisui, but the fact that Sasuke’s intentions are a lot like Itachi in every way possible.

    He wanted to be seen as a murderer and an rogue outcast just so he can gain the trust of Tobi. It’s just as you said, Itachi already told him Madara killed off the clan with his help, so why help the man that sparked the entire reason for Sasuke’s path of revenge.

    It’s simple, he uses Tobi the same way he used Orochimaru, and gaining that precious power Tobi possesses wasn’t a option unless Tobi saw with his own eyes Sasuke’s determination.
    Actually now that Sasuke reached the peak of the Uchiha in power what else is there left for him to learn, except to master all his skills.

    In that regard I’ve always been a little disappointed at how Sasuke grew in power compared to Naruto. While Naruto grows in strength with great Power ups, he can perform those skills with a lot of limitations and risks like sage mode, rasengan and the all new kyuubi cloak, sure over time Naruto overcame those limitations in his own way through hard work and training.

    But Sasuke had the divine gift of having “know it all” eyes, and understanding of jutsu to him was like a walk in the park, he truly is a genius in every way to think that by his age he managed to be a master in two nature types, expert control over the sharingan and prove he can use the Mangekyo powers to a level even beyond that of his brother could have.
    Many people hated on Sasuke in the past for his simplistic way of mastering techniques and jutsus, but let’s face it, who should have been more capable for the job then the uchiha.

    The outstanding thing was the way Naruto managed to keep up with him for so many years, that’s until we found out what a Uzumaki actually meant, and that the fact that Naruto manged so well was also due to his bloodline as well as his determenation.

    Anyway, I guess i went a little of topic, but what I was really trying to say is that I can’t wait to see the look on Tobi’s face when he finds the Totsuka Sword sticking out of his gut with Sasuke holding the handle on the other side.

  53. @DarkAvatar

    Actually, the war is just a means to an end to Madara, and that end is capturing Naruto and Bee. Madara wouldn’t be stupid enough to start a war just for the sake of fighting a war, because he has been forced to use some of the Bijuu chakra he already has to win this war, which is already detrimental to his plans of reviving the Juubi.

    Why would he do that if resurrecting the Juubi was the most important goal, unless the war itself was a move to achieve that goal?

    Sorry Darks, but your point about the war being ‘punishment’ is null and void. Madara only offered an alternative as a way to achieve his goals faster. Once that alternative failed, he fell back onto the only other means at his disposal – all out war. This war is being fought for one purpose, which is the resurrection of the Juubi, and if the shinobi alliance loses this war, then Naruto and Bee are as good as captured anyway.

    That is why, in my previous comment, I mentioned that either choice is a risk.

  54. @Tenrai –

    “Actually, the war is just a means to an end to Madara, and that end is capturing Naruto and Bee.”

    See, right here, in this sentence, you are correct. The war IS the means to the end which Madara desires. But there is a clear distinction here that was lacking in your previous post. You said before that Madara WINNING the war is as risky as Madara gaining the last two tailed beasts.

    This is wrong.

    He doesn’t give a stuff about winning or losing. It’s the war itself which is designed to lure Naruto and Bee to the battlefield. This is supported by the fact that Madara decided to bring Gedo Mazo to the fight upon confirmation that they were making their way to the battlefield, and not before. He considers their capture more important than victory over the Joint Shinobi Alliance. Therefore, preventing Naruto from joining the war effort would have been less of a risk than allowing him to go. You just said it yourself. And I did say it as well in my last post to you, lol.

    “This war is being fought for one purpose, which is the resurrection of the Juubi, and if the shinobi alliance loses this war, then Naruto and Bee are as good as captured anyway.”

    Losing the war is not synonymous to losing the Hachibi and the Kyuubi to Madara. Regardless of whether he won or lost, he would still need to capture these two last tailed beasts if he wanted to make his moon’s eye plan a reality. Granted, he’d have less opposition if he did crush the alliance, but victory in and of itself does not guarantee Madara instant access to Naruto and Bee.

  55. so. much. text. My brain is sad 😦

  56. @DarkAvatar

    “He doesn’t give a stuff about winning or losing.”

    The following page disproves your above statement:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-537/14/

    It’s quite clear that Madara can’t afford to lose this war, because if he does, his plan to revive the Juubi will lie in ruins. You mustn’t forget that regardless of whether or not Madara showed up at the Kage meeting to negotiate, the plan for a joint shinobi alliance was already being implemented to destroy Akatsuki before Madara’s intentions were even known. It was only a matter before Madara was sniffed out and destroyed altogether, which is why he declared war first, knowing it was going to happen regardless.

    “It’s the war itself which is designed to lure Naruto and Bee to the battlefield. This is supported by the fact that Madara decided to bring Gedo Mazo to the fight upon confirmation that they were making their way to the battlefield, and not before. He considers their capture more important than victory over the Joint Shinobi Alliance. Therefore, preventing Naruto from joining the war effort would have been less of a risk than allowing him to go. You just said it yourself. And I did say it as well in my last post to you, lol.”

    Actually I never said that it would have been less of a risk to keep Naruto from joining the war. I said either choice contains equally dangerous risks. And if the point of the war was purely to draw out Naruto, I’ve already made my own point above about how the war was inevitable regardless of whether Madara declared it or not, because the great nations were already planning to wage war on Akatsuki as it was. If anything, it was that inevitable threat of an alliance that forced Madara’s hand, and not the other way around.

    However, if we go by your suggestion and assume that the war was created purely to draw Naruto and Bee out, then why is Madara trying to resurrect an incomplete Juubi now at the very moment his targets appeared, in order to complete his plan? If the whole point of the war was to draw them out, then why, when they finally come out, is Madara choosing to resurrect the Juubi without trying to even capture them? Simple, because he knows that capturing Naruto and Bee, who are both powerful in their own right, won’t be as simple as you seem to think and he understands that Naruto and Bee are now a very dangerous threat to him. The fact that Sasuke and Pein both failed to capture Naruto and Bee respectively – with the latter of the two dying in the process – also suggests this is the case. Madara may have even given up on the idea of capturing Naruto and Bee altogether, for all we know.

    “Losing the war is not synonymous to losing the Hachibi and the Kyuubi to Madara. Regardless of whether he won or lost, he would still need to capture these two last tailed beasts if he wanted to make his moon’s eye plan a reality. Granted, he’d have less opposition if he did crush the alliance, but victory in and of itself does not guarantee Madara instant access to Naruto and Bee.”

    You are correct in a sense that losing the war doesn’t mean Madara will have immediate reign to capture Naruto and Bee, but it does mean that their capture will ultimately be inevitable. Let’s face it, two Jinchuuriki fighting on a battlefield with a few thousand allies at their side are a far greater threat, and will be far more difficult to capture, than two Jinchuuriki fighting alone against the power of seven Bijuu, a man with the power of the rinnegan and sharingan and his army, with no other hope of aid left in the world. And besides, if Madara destroys the rest of the world, then what is the point anyway? There would be nothing left for Naruto and Bee to save by hiding away. That seems like a dead end to me either way you put it.

  57. @tenrai –

    “The following page disproves your above statement: [insert link here]”

    Actually no, it doesn’t, because this statement was made AFTER Madara found out that Naruto would be joining the war effort, and therefore his statement could be interpreted to meaning that Madara cannot afford to lose here because it would mean that he would not be ready to intercept and capture Naruto when he does arrive. It certainly lends your claim an ounce of credibility though, but it is not enough to completely disprove mine.

    —-

    “You mustn’t forget that regardless of whether or not Madara showed up at the Kage meeting to negotiate, the plan for a joint shinobi alliance was already being implemented to destroy Akatsuki before Madara’s intentions were even known. It was only a matter before Madara was sniffed out and destroyed altogether, which is why he declared war first, knowing it was going to happen regardless.”

    If that was what he was thinking, then Madara must be stragetically retarded. By declaring war, the alliance was given warning to amass their troops. It takes quite a long time to co-ordinate 80,000 troops from seperate villages separated by huge stretches of land and sea and to be frank it is likely that they wouldn’t have bothered spending that much time and resources to gather that many shinobi into one military mass had the declaration of war not been made.

    Think about it. If there had been little to no threat of war, the alliance would have at best kept a small garrison of troops a fraction of the size of the total army on-hand for immediate retaliation and the rest of the army would have gone about their daily lives, scattered across the continent. No one has enough money to spend feeding an extra 80,000 unproductive mouths that could otherwise be out working and keeping their respective villages economies running. Madara’s immediate threat would have been an intelligence gathering team and a special forces team similiar to ANBU black ops specifically designed to take him out. Once Madara had amassed his army, he could have surprise-attacked whatever target he wanted and crushed them with overwhelming force long before a counter-attack could even be formulated by the rest of the army. If victory was what he was after, this would have been the best way to achieve it.

    But no, he decided to make a show out of it. A full blown war means maximum casualties and he knew damn well that Naruto couldn’t handle that much death on his conscience. War was not inevitable. Madara made it so.

    —-

    “Actually I never said that it would have been less of a risk to keep Naruto from joining the war. I said either choice contains equally dangerous risks.”

    For this statement to be valid, losing the war and losing the last two jinchuuriki must be equally dangerous risks in and of themselves. However, we know that winning the war is not a direct requirement of this Moon’s Eye jutsu. Capturing Bee and Naruto, however, is. Therefore, It is more of a risk allowing Naruto to face the threat of capture than it is to keep him from the battle.

    —-

    “However, if we go by your suggestion and assume that the war was created purely to draw Naruto and Bee out, then why is Madara trying to resurrect an incomplete Juubi now at the very moment his targets appeared, in order to complete his plan? If the whole point of the war was to draw them out, then why, when they finally come out, is Madara choosing to resurrect the Juubi without trying to even capture them? Simple, because he knows that capturing Naruto and Bee, who are both powerful in their own right, won’t be as simple as you seem to think and he understands that Naruto and Bee are now a very dangerous threat to him.”

    What? No! Since when was it established that bringing out the statue means he is trying to resurrect the Juubi? The statue is not the Juubi, and the Juubi cannot be resurrected till all of its chakra has been gathered. This includes Naruto’s and Bee’s. What Madara is doing is bringing out his biggest guns specifically to overpower and capture the hachibi and the kyuubi for when they do arrive, not to crush the alliance armies. I never said beating Bee and Naruto would be a breeze, but the fact remains that Madara has the ability to overpower them with Gedo Mazo and the chakra of the first 7 bijuu. If you want to talk about inevitability, I would put money on Bee and Naruto’s defeat being inevitable at the hands of Madara and his freaky soul sucker statue.

    —-

    “The fact that Sasuke and Pein both failed to capture Naruto and Bee respectively – with the latter of the two dying in the process – also suggests this is the case. Madara may have even given up on the idea of capturing Naruto and Bee altogether, for all we know.”

    This page says otherwise:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-537/15/

    He can’t accomplish the Moon’s Eye plan without Naruto and Bee, so it is safe to say that he definitely has NOT given up on capturing them.

    —-

    “You are correct in a sense that losing the war doesn’t mean Madara will have immediate reign to capture Naruto and Bee, but it does mean that their capture will ultimately be inevitable. Let’s face it, two Jinchuuriki fighting on a battlefield with a few thousand allies at their side are a far greater threat, and will be far more difficult to capture, than two Jinchuuriki fighting alone against the power of seven Bijuu, a man with the power of the rinnegan and sharingan and his army, with no other hope of aid left in the world.”

    All depends on your point of view. Would it be harder to capture Bee and Naruto while they had an army at their backs, or would it be harder to capture them if they went into hiding with no trace? At least in the first scenario you’d know where they were. You also need to consider circumstance. Madara does not have his statue on him 24-7. Wouldn’t it make sense to attack him by surprise outside of the war, when he doesn’t have his full military might on the playing field?

  58. Yeesh. Sorry for the wall of text. >_>

  59. Damn Tenrai you really came with a thirst for debate dude ;). The next month or so should be very awesome because a lot of questions should be answered, Sasuke should make a comeback, Madara should put his plan into play and Naruto and Bee will probably whoop a lot of ass on the battlefield.

    Yesterday I reread the whole war arc and I came across katuto’s statement that he still has the upper hand with Edo Tensei and “that other jutsu” (wTF is it with kishi and all the “this jutsu” “that jutsu” crap) and I was wondering what dose kabuto have up his sleeve that makes him so confident he can match Tobi with his Sharingan in one eye and the Rinnegan in the other.

    What ever it is, it should be something really awesome and I can’t wait to see what the little weasel can really do on his own.

  60. holy crap i couldn’t even read all of that haha. anywayzzzzzz it’s good to see though, a lot of good old fashioned IRA smackdowns goin on @_@

  61. y@Y… WRA’s alive again!!!! The comments + debates are equally enjoying to ruminate.

    As for Naruto’s move, it might be a foolhardy one but it certainly is NOT selfish. The real-life heroes we adore took great risks and bravely pushed on despite the odds stacked up against them. And even if they failed – even in their deaths, their ideals lived on and carried by the next generation.

    If you have that great of a power, and you believe in yourself, and yondaime + jiraiya + pain + bee believes in you… hell… GO FOR IT!

  62. What if Itachi gave Naruto the Sword that makes someone sleep forever. I bet it’s going to happen in the climax of the battle between Naruto and Madara. Something happens, the scene skips to minutes later with Madara coming out on top. He places Naruto in the center of the Gedo Mezo and extracts the beast then and there. And we the audience think it is all over when in fact Madara has been stabbed by that sword Itachi gave to Naruto as a gift and as a result is dreaming the whole scenario. That’d be wicked cool. Calling it!!

  63. I’m speaking in terms of what Itachi gave to Naruto when they last met before Itachi ent to go fight Sauske (the crow that stuffed Naruto).

  64. so much text took me along time to finish reading. speaking of the sword and that stuff does each susano(sorry if spelled wrong) have their unique weapon as sasuke’s has a bow and arrow and itachi’s the shield and sword and if so what weapon would madara’s susano use

  65. @ Wiseman, In the clash Naruto had with Sasuke before sasuke got his brother’s eyes Naruto said that if the both fought again both are gonna end up dead.

    Itachi said that he hopes Naruto never had to use the power he gave him, do you think Naruto already knows what that power is and knows that is Sasuke and he fought that power will kill both of them??

    I for one, as of late think it might be even a doujutsu, theory that may regarded as impossible because Naruto was not a uchiha, but if both sons of the sage were of the same blood it means that the traits and genes of uchiha, hyuuga, uzumaki and senju should be directly transmissible. We all saw that Nagato was a uzumaki with the rinnegan so maybe that’s the whole secret to gaining the perfect sage body:
    Combining the body of a uzumaki ( closest relation to the 2nd son via the long life they live ) with blood of the uchiha or even and eye transplant.

    I’m guessing a doujutsu like the sharingan implanted into a uzumaki could evolve upon awakening directly into the rinnegan. It’s all pretty taboo still, but I really want to know how Tobi was the one responsible for Nagato’s eyes.

  66. @ Mad, I guess everyone has there own style of Susano’o, but “madara” Tobi has not been shown using the Mangekyo so far so I’m guessing he doesn’t use the mangekyo techniques like Amaterasu, Tsukuyome and Susano’o but I would have liked to see young Madara and Izuna’s susano’o back in the day vs the 1st and 2nd hokage.

  67. I have been mentioned in a breakdown. My life is now complete.

    Anyway, I really don’t see how keeping Naruto and Bee away from the battlefield is really going to help them in the long run. They’d just be dragging it out. I think spending half of my internet time on TV Tropes has made me look at all works subjectively, but this situation with Madara isn’t new. Madara’s luring Naruto out, but as we know, it isn’t going to be a cakewalk for Madara to beat Naruto and Bee. After all, the most important trait for a shonen hero isn’t how strong they are per se, it’s how quickly they get stronger. Naruto’s getting stronger all the time, and Madara doesn’t realize that by the time they actually fight, Naruto’s going to beat him to death with his own hubris. We saw it happen to Aizen, it’ll happen to Madara.

    Kind of off track there, but the point is: In the end, Naruto and Bee are going to have to fight eventually, and them joining the fray now and saving the JSA some casualties isn’t going to hurt.

  68. Despite some good arguments on either side, I think the Raikage was still in the wrong when he thought killing Naruto was a valid option. I’m not necessarily done debating the topic, but I wanted to suggest a poll next time for the choice of whether or not to let Naruto go or to restrain him.

  69. @eugen-…………….Yesssssss dude that is what i’ve been thinkin ever since we found out the uchia and senju are distantly related. i feel like itachi would have known this fact and somehow gave naruto a way to combine the powers of both senju and uchia in order to become a “2nd coming” of the sage so to speak.

  70. @ Dish, Damn dude that would be a awesome day indeed, I can’t wait to see it happening.

    @ Gavin & Zenith, I guess we’re split more or less in half, Pro and Anti Naruto and Bee. But I’m with Naruto all the way because it’s not just Naruto here, we have to realize that the only person that could have stopped Naruto (by force) was Bee and he chose to go to war not because Naruto took the initiative but because he himself knew it was the right thing to do, plus Bee ain’t the type to follow and take orders more so from a green horn like Naruto. He saw in Naruto the same will he had in his own heart, all he needed was the push out the door so to say.

    Who can I speak to for a Moderator profile please, is Super the only one that can make me one??

  71. Where is super anyway?

  72. @gavin – I feel the Raikage was wrong to try and kill Naruto as well. But i don’t think letting him go was the right think to do, either. He should have tried to capture him instead.

  73. As for super, he’s usually on msn some days.

    And yeah, I think super is the only one that can give you mod status here, Eugen.

  74. @zenith – Naruto and Bee are going to save the Justice Society of America? What does Superman have to say about that??

  75. I think the raikage is going throuh a little midlife crisis….I mean, he lost his arm, lost his B(for a while), and a couple elite ninjas to the gourd….Maybe instead of buying a new car, he just needs to kill Naruto to, you know, validate his existence…but then he gets shot down by bee…so hes like that guy going through a mid-life crisis but his credit is too shitty to buy a car…..

  76. @ Wiseman, In the clash Naruto had with Sasuke before sasuke got his brother’s eyes Naruto said that if the both fought again both are gonna end up dead.

    Itachi said that he hopes Naruto never had to use the power he gave him, do you think Naruto already knows what that power is and knows that is Sasuke and he fought that power will kill both of them??

    I for one, as of late think it might be even a doujutsu, theory that may regarded as impossible because Naruto was not a uchiha, but if both sons of the sage were of the same blood it means that the traits and genes of uchiha, hyuuga, uzumaki and senju should be directly transmissible. We all saw that Nagato was a uzumaki with the rinnegan so maybe that’s the whole secret to gaining the perfect sage body:
    Combining the body of a uzumaki ( closest relation to the 2nd son via the long life they live ) with blood of the uchiha or even and eye transplant.

    I’m guessing a doujutsu like the sharingan implanted into a uzumaki could evolve upon awakening directly into the rinnegan. It’s all pretty taboo still, but I really want to know how Tobi was the one responsible for Nagato’s eyes.

    You just gave me an idea eugen ….. Remember how madara kept on saying that He Gave nagato the rinnengan” An uchiha + uzumaki = rinnengan , So what if Itachi did the same with Naruto . It is very very likely to happen!

  77. ^Fail , Quote tag doesn’t work 😦

  78. @Ahsan there still that possibility of itachi knowing that but wouldn’t naruto show some kind symptom regarding the rinnegan

  79. Ok, it makes sense how an Uzumaki can get the power of the rinnegan.

    The whole thing with Naruto telling Sauske they’d both die can become a spiritual meaning of both of them “dying.” Both would be fused into one (i.e. Kabuto fused with the essence of Orochimaru; so there could be some hidden jutsu that allows Naruto to fuse with Sauske.) In that sense they would have become one true sage and in turn both would have died. Naruto (the story) has shown events that are physically impossible, so why can’t this work? I’m getting this theory from how my opinion of how the story is centered about bonds and the unification of all people threw those bonds via the medium, Naruto.

  80. @ Ahsan

    Not likely, but possible. I still don’t believe Madara supplied or gave nagato his sage eyes. I believe he was born with them. But there are a lot of possibilities.

    He may not have supplied Nagato with the rinnigan however, he may have supplied them for the other 6 paths of pein.
    On the other hand, we will have to also consider the fact that Madara hasn’t been living long enough to have came across a pair of sage eyes to give them to Nagato in the first place, let alone the other 6 bodies.

    It is very difficult to draw one assumption without thee story contradicting itself. T___T

  81. @marks

    You got me wrong , I don’t mean gave as in “gave” but more of like Uchiha + Uzumaki = rinnengan . Madara couldn’t “give” anyone else the rinnengan , So technically the rinnengan is as much pein’s as is madara’s .

  82. @Bubble

    Left Panel: Bro, is that?
    Right Pannel: I don’t usually cry like this, but if I do, it’s because I have minato’s kunai up my ass.

    Caption: Minato, He is the most interesting man in the world.

  83. O_O Wow WRA coming to life 😛

    I been away for the past few days…

    @ gavin –

    “Now, about the arguments about ‘realistic situations’ and ‘comparing to real wars’. I think it is kind of silly to say that everyone knows that wars are won with timing. I could also say that timing alone is NEVER why a war is won. So, I won’t argue against the ‘wars are won with timing’ thing… Because I think it is silly to bring THAT MUCH detail to this argument. None of us here are war strategists or four star generals. I’m just looking at patterns in the story and in the manga itself.”

    I am confused, going into a debate and then stopping when it is convenient just doesn’t make sense, Tactics in war game and battle strategy is often used unless the power of one is far greater then the other. I may not be a general blah blah, but one can learn from strategy even in business, The Art of War the book for example…
    If one looks at a pattern you also fall into it, you would then become predictable… and in Naruto as far as I know there has never been a war (that we have witnessed) or to this scale so trying to keep a pattern would be pointless here. I like to look at any situation realistically and I put myself in the Raikage’s shoes now cause I honestly believe Naruto is being in a sense selfish….

    Why you may ask? Look at the reasoning he gives everyone.

    I will figure out something, get peace MY way…. How can I live with MYSELF etc etc. Every one of those sentences revolve around him…

    In the end I understand why he is doing, Pain of loosing those close to you and even having people die for you is terrible… Look at how Pein was born exactly the same way he couldn’t handle it and neither can Naruto.

    The car example is a bit silly too. (This is directed at pein0avenue). If I have a car: no. I would not give my keys to just any ten year old. However, this is not what is happening. Yes, the Raikage is better than Naruto in pure speed. But they are in similar classes when all things are considered (that is just my opinion). So it would be more like giving keys to an absolute expert ten year old driver that had won Daytona 500.

    I don’t think you understand the point here. WE all know Naruto is a powerful dude never said other wise, BUT in a War he is as exp as a 10 year old is to driving. Raikage has been to war and as 2nd in command, Talent in battle doesn’t mean strategy in war, though I will give it to Naruto he was brilliant vs Pain but he also had a lot going for him there….

    RAIKAGE = Leader of the Village with 0 Akatsuki members!

    Tsunade/Konoha = ummm almost all of them, and the unholy Trinity…. Madara – Konoha, Sasuke – Konoha and Kabuto – Konoha… I have no faith in her leadership, This Bullcrap Tsunade spits with “I Believe in a 16 year old boy” really, Orochimaru wants Uchiha blood – Ill send Genin and a Chunin ( this same person who tried to destroy Konoha like a few months prior) and then this Uchiha with all Konoha’s secrets (well a lot of) her selution, ill wait 3 years and then send a 16 year old to “capture” not eliminate. CAPTURE WTF !!! So let me just say her feelings and judgement suck! Raikage lost his arm, BEE could of been killed and Danzou (though not the best dude) also gone cause she couldn’t say NO to Naruto, and what happens when a parent can’t say no to a child, it becomes a brat and guess wat Naruto is IMO a Brat

    *END RANT*

  84. The new chapter is out.

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/544

    I must say, I enjoyed it quite a bit, however, the dialogue felt a bit sticky to me. I don’t think the translations were that good because nothing seems to flow properly. It may be better to wait for Mangastream to release the chapter if that is the case, but for those in a hurry, there’s no harm in diving right in.

    The last spread is definitely a signal for epic things to come, but I won’t spoil it.

    There’s only one thing left to say really. So much for the Raikage being faster than Naruto.

    *Trolls Kisu forever* Muahahahahaha!!!! 😛

  85. @ New Chapter

    Face meets Palm X___X

  86. Lol @ last pages of new chapter. I completely agree with pein.
    I remember when Sasuke fought Danzo after he unveiled his sharingarm and someone said something like “Doujutsus are on sale at Walmart! Buy 2, pay 1!” and I had thought the Rinnegan was immune from that trolling, but it isn’t anymore. -__- Jinchuriki with Rinnegan-Sharingan eyes are too much hax, even for Madara.
    I can’t wait to see Kisu’s reaction. 😀

  87. mangastream has the chapter out!

    loved it, couple epic moments. the last page….holyyyyyyyyyy crap

  88. @dragon

    Actually, I don’t think Madara gave them the Sharingan and Rinnegan in the way of a transplant. I think it’s the same as the way Nagato’s six path bodies shared his rinnegan powers.

    So, they are probably just like the six paths of Pain with the power of the six paths split between them, as we’ll as shared vision. The only difference now is that they also have the sharingan.

    Okay, so that is a big difference…

    But, I am not sure if they will retain their original Jinchuuriki powers.

  89. @ Tenrai – That would be cool, then but I still think then it would be called the Madara of 6 Paths @_@ WTH

  90. @Pein

    Think of it this way. If Madara really had that many rinnegan eyes to begin with, there would have been no need for him to go through all the trouble of getting Nagato’s rinnegan back.

    This is definitely the same as the six paths of pain. It’s just Madara’s eye powers being shared with bodies he will be controlling, just the same way Nagato’s rinnegan was shared with the bodies he controlled..

  91. @ Tenrai – but how? I don’t see the Chakra recievers and if its Madara’s eyes why does he say, “They have adjusted to it”

  92. @pein0avenue: Shit… This chapter kind of changes things. Don’t have time for a long response at the moment. But I do agree with some of the things you’ve said.

  93. @pein0avenue

    Because they are still his eyes and not theirs? As for chakra recievers, well, I’m not sure about that, or how he would control them, but I am pretty sure he has a way to control them otherwise he wouldn’t be doing this.

    After all, it would be pretty stupid for Madara to give all that power to six bodies who would still otherwise be under Kabuto’s control. That would be like giving someone a massive knife with a nuclear reactor core that can cut planets in half and saying “here, stab me in the back would you?”

  94. @pein0avenue

    About your rant, need I remind you that Pein, who is probably your favorite character in the entire Naruto series, thought of himself as a god. Now, I find it funny how you will rant about Naruto’s confidence in himself when you support a character who is arrogant enough to think himself above all life on the planet. That just seems like a huge contradiction to me. If Pein wasn’t considered a “brat” for his attitude, then I don’t know how Naruto could possibly be regarded as one.

    In either case, Naruto actually does have the strength to back up his claims of being able to turn the tide of this war and this latest chapter confirms that it is not only true, it is necessary as well, because Naruto, at the moment, is the only one who can save the alliance from the current state of affairs it has fallen into.

    Here are the facts. If Naruto turns around and hides now, the alliance is as good as dead because they can’t fight an enemy they can’t identify. If Naruto joins the war now, the alliance has hope. That’s the bottom line.

    So for all the ranting, that fact doesn’t change, nor does the fact that Naruto is actually needed in this war for there to be any hope at the moment.

    As for battle experience, Naruto may not be a strategist, but that point isn’t actually very valid in this case. Naruto is not going to be leading a division of soldiers or comanding troops, so I don’t know why he is being compared to the Raikage, who will be in that sort of leadership position. Naruto will be a soldier on the field and when you are a soldier, your ability in battle is what counts. You can’t deny that Naruto is more than capable in battle, because he has proven it more than sufficiently lately.

    At the end of the day, I really don’t see what’s wrong with Naruto wanting to save others and I don’t see why he is loathed because of it. He isn’t doing it for himself and he isn’t trying to be selfish. He believes he is doing what is best for everyone else, even if it means he has to burden the consequences alone and even though that may not be the smartest choice, it is still very noble. On top of that, he has been taught that he is the only one who can do it, so you can’t even blame him for doing what he feels is the only thing that could possibly save everyone.

    You need to remember that this is a manga we are talking about. It isn’t always going to have a perfectly realistic outcome or one that follows the rules of the real world. Think of Death Note and how that ended. <_<

  95. @Tenrai

    I also thought they were controlled by Madara like Nagato controlled his Six Paths, but then I noticed a few things.
    As pein said, where are the chakra recievers? They may be zombies resurrected by Edo Tensei, but they are alive and if someone doesn’t control them, then they can do what they want. We just have to see if Kabuto’s the one controlling them or if Madara is.

    Anyway, I think they will retain their original Jinchuriki powers because Gaara still had his sand powers after they extracted the Shukaku. So they have that power and Rinnegan-Sharingan eyes. The Shinobi Alliance will really need Naruto and Bee if they want to defeat them.

    By the way, do you think they will get the powers of the Six Paths? Like chakra absorption, summoning, mind reading…

  96. @Dragon

    I do think they will get the power of the six paths, which is why I wondered if they would retain their Jinchuuriki powers.

    When Nagato used his bodies, they didn’t seem to retain any abilities from before they were taken over, when they were alive, so there is a chance the same might happen with the previous Jinchuuriki’s bodies as well.

    If they retain both their Jinchuuriki powers and gain the powers of each of the six paths… well then, the alliance will certainly need a few prayers. Lol.

  97. @Tenrai

    That means a Jinchuriki will have to be Deva Path, with all the gravity-related techniques.Think about how many people a full power Shinra Tensei will kill…
    I hope Kishi won’t do that because the Alliance would be wiped out in a flash.

  98. @Dragon

    If they don’t get any powers of the six paths that the Rinnegan grants, then what is they point of them all having the Rinnegan in the first place?

    P.S. did you know that ‘hippopotomonstrosesquippediliophobia’ = a fear of long words. I find that really funny. Lol. XD

  99. @new chapter what where did he got all those eye

  100. by eyes I mean the rinnegan as he has a wall full of sharingan and are those the real bodies or the resurrections

  101. i dont think and hope that Madara will use Shinra Tensei first of all it takes alot of chakra to use it and takes effect on the user, i dont think madara will take that risk.
    Second of all it would be a bit cheap to use the same attacks over and over again.
    Now i wonder how much better Madara can control the six paths then Nagato.
    And since we allready have alot of info on the abillities of the paths they have to figure out which body has what strength. then come with a plan to somehow fully disable them.
    Wonder how he’s controlling them indeed maybe the sharingan’s are linked in a way?

  102. Now Naruto’s calling himself a fucking savior. I give up.

    And lol @ Kushina and Minato being his 2 “suns” when altogether he’s spent less than 30 minutes with them. What about Kakashi or Iruka? Kishimoto and his horrible symbolism. I have lost all faith in Kishi’s writing. I’m just here to see Naruto’s “glorious answer” to Pain’s question. That’s all.

    Remember when Naruto was just a kid saying he’d make his own destiny? Yeah, me neither. Now he’s bought into the prophecy. This is stupid.

    HEY HEY HEY! Remember when the Rinnegan was a legendary eye that was extremely rare? Yeah, me neither. Fuck you Kishi, you turned A into a Narutoist like most of the other characters in this series. But hey, this is Naruto, where if you don’t agree with Naruto you’re the Devil and will die (or as the fans say, he’s part of the old way of thinking and needs to die blah blah blah)

    @Tenrai, STOP HUGGING TREES AND EAT MEAT!

  103. @Tenrai Senshi: You covered just about everything I was going to say in your response to pein0avenue. I agree with every single point. You got my vote.

  104. I don’t understand everybody’s confusion in regard to the rinnegan, just as Tenrai said, the eyes are not old eyes kept away in storage somewhere, there must be a jutsu of the rinnegan exclusively that can transform a normal persons’s (path) into rinnegan eyes.

    The most important thing is, if the eyes of the path are still rinnegan after the paths’ deaths then Konoha already has 5 or so in there possession from the pain invasion.
    Other then that the control over the jinchuriki is probably done the same way madara controlled the kyuubi, via the sharingan, thus rendering Kabuto’s control over them, possibly, void.
    As far as this goes I consider this a far better technique then the original 6 path of pain, because that left nagato open for detection via the transmitors, but now Madara can be almost anywhere controlling the jinchuriki without any means of detection.
    He controls them with his own Sharingan, has there shared vision with the rinnegan and I think the original jinchuriki powers will still be there because just like Fearvano said, doing the same things the 6 path of pain did would be cheap and plus Naruto already whooped the original’s asses so there would be no reason for then to do the same things when Naruto+Bee already have the intel on that and are more powerful now then ever.

    The rinnegan + jinchuriki skills + sharingan will prove to be the ultimate too we’ve seen in a long time. I’ve said it for a couple of weeks that Naruto and Bee will face the former jinchuriki of the battlefield, but this was something i really didn’t see coming, and say what you will “this means you Kisu” Kishi can sure make things entertaining at just the right time.

    And thumbs up to the FASTEST man in the narutoverse, NARUTO came through motherfuckers ! ! ! Sorry for cursing but the haters sure have lost there debates with this one.

  105. uhhhh if the MAIN character in a given series said he was the only one who had the ability to be the “savior” of his given world..i can totally buy that. without a doubt. he’s the main character for a reason genius. if ichigo were to make a similar comment in bleach, i would buy that too. cuz, again, he’s the main character. he’s supposed to be the one who saves everyone and defeats the toughest villains and takes on the hardest burdens. and i dont see what’s funny about his parents being the thing that filled the void in his heart? he grew up for the vast, vast majority of his life with really no one who cared about him besides maybe iruka and eventually team 7. but to find out later in life who his parents are and the flashback of what happened and how much the loved him, enough to sacrifice their own lives just for him to get the opportunity to live his. and that’s stupid? hahaaaaa…yeah, no i dont think so bub

  106. Very right you are Dish, well said.

  107. “Remember when Naruto was just a kid saying he’d make his own destiny? Yeah, me neither. Now he’s bought into the prophecy.” Consistency Kishi, consistency.

  108. Haha..I was right on the money when I saw the “Savior” part and thought, “Oh God, Kisu’s sooo gonna have an aneurysm at that one!”

  109. instead of “consistency” how bout the word “adaptability”..Naruto (as you stated) had his own ideas as a child to make his own destiny. so because his dad..and mom..and several other influential people in his life said “hey buddy look i know this may not be what you had in mind, but we kinda need you to save the world” he should just say naw i got my own ideas on my destiny? i think very rarely, if ever, a person’s destiny is set so early in their lifetime. i dont really think i understand what you mean by the whole “bought into the prophecy” thing. so because he has been prophesied to save the world….he should do somethin different? O_o

  110. Naruto has fully shed his part 1 independence and “fuck the world i’ll beat em all anyway” perspective, and has become a tool to spread the ‘word’ of his own greatness apparently. He’s spitting on everythin he said in part 1. It’s that simple. He’s now calling himself a savior. WTF? I said a few weeks ago that this kid was arrogant, and that one remark of his proves it.

    He’s also advocating a lie. Minato was never a chosen one. The prophecy says its Nagato and Naruto so whatever. My main gripe is Naruto isn’t supposed to be a freaking Messiah, he’s just a kid that wanted to be great. When did this turn into such a preachy, and pretentious story? The symbolism isn’t even subtle anymore, it’s just s blatant. Just look at these:

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/39717916/5


    @dish, when destiny is on his side he readily accepts it as fact. When destiny wasn’t he said Destiny was trash. But hey, Naruto’s proven himself to be a hypocrite ever since Part 1 started so nothing new here really.

    @orange, I’m that predictable eh? hehe

  111. @dish and Tenrai: again, i have to agree with both of you.

    @kisu: Lots of people thought of Naruto as a hero after the battle with Pain. If that is ‘spreading the word of his greatness’ as you put it, then I don’t blame him at all for that. If Naruto says that he is the savior with confidence to uh… three people. That is not exactly spreading the word. Sorry, just because Naruto believes in himself, doesn’t mean he’s spreading the gospel.

  112. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/42035636/18
    There’s a fine line between confidence and arrogance. every great athlete Knows their good, that’s why the great ones are clutch. when the game is one the line. they Know they are good enough to change the outcome of the game in their team’s favor. Michael Jordan was a confident player, he could also be considered arrogant by people that didn’t like him. obviously naruto is a shinobi, no a real world athlete, but i think the same concept can apply equally. he Knows he’s got the strength, speed, talent..that he’s just over all good enough to change the outcome of this situation in “crunch time” and that’s all i see. he may be tip toeing the edge of confidence/arrogance, but all great men do.

  113. @Gavin he’s not just saying he’s strong, he is literally saying he is a savior. When Pain called himself god it stemmed form his confidence in his power, but Naruto’s comes mostly from prophecy and belief. It has more merit than Pain’s belief that he is a god. In fact, in the end Pain said “Perhaps this is all the work of the real God”. He knows he wasn’t a god, but he put on that mask. Naruto BELIEVES himself to be a savior and so does Tsunade. Its just too pretentious. I remember back when I used to cheer for Naruto, but now I just want him to die with his gay love interest.

    @Dish, that is arrogance in and of itself. He’s telling the fox he’ll change his view on life even though it doesn’t want to. Naruto is an arrogant little prick now. I despise this new Naruto. Goku was confident, but not arrogant.

    What really drew out my anger was Naruto calling himself a savior as opposed to saying something like “I just want this war to end, I don’t care what people call me”. It bothered me greatly. It bothered me because it’s glorifying this kid to inflate his ego further because now he’s a child of prophecy.

  114. goku knew he would kick anyone’s ass that tried to hurt his family and friends, and he wasn’t afraid to tell or show people that if he had to

  115. ok i can see where him calling himself a savior could get on your nerves. but i dont have a problem with it and i still dont think he was terribly mistaken in doing so.

  116. @Dish, EXACTLY! He didn’t go around proclaiming himself God or even a savior, even though he’s stronger than all the Kais and Kami. Naruto is just so frikkin arrogant. Sasuke’s arrogance was my first reason for hating him, and it’s definitely the reason I hate Naruto.

    Naruto’s savior complex has reached a new level of weirdness, egotism, and absurdity that decided to completely dismiss whatever meaningful messages Part I had. I kept reading Naruto because it seemed to be a great story about paving your own way to greatness and never giving up despite the odds, of hard work, brotherhood and teamwork, and now wtf there are profecies, destinies and chosen ones, which undermine everything I liked it for.

  117. Narutoism is real folks. He managed to make Zabuza, Haku, Tsunade, Gaara, Neji, Konan, Nagato, Raikage, Killerbee, and so many others into devoted followers. Even the most evil being in this manga the Kyuubi will be converted to Narutoism. Now bow down and pray to your savior. *sarcasm*

    Naruto lends aid to those who call for his aid. Remember Sakura going on her knees praying for Naruto to come? Not only did he stop the villain he also made him repent his deaths and brought back everyone who died.

    All hail Naruto for he is the world’s savior *heavy sarcasm*

  118. look, i can appreciate where your coming from; however, telling the raikage, tsunade (who already thinks he is) and bee (who fully believes in him) could hardly be called “going around proclaiming”. he didnt go there to tell them that. how many people has he personally said that to? a handful maybe? how many people have said that about him? probably quite a few more. so maybe it’s not self-proclamation as much as you’re sayin

  119. naruto was coming regardless of sakura “praying” for him. the “re-set” button..eh yeah that was dumb. a lot of people thought it was but honestly i dont still think about it, it doesn’t bug me

  120. “Even the most evil being in this manga the Kyuubi will be converted to Narutoism.”
    uhhh if i recall correctly, which i do, bee and the 8 tails didnt used to get along. the 8 tails used to try to steal bee’s chakra just like the kyuubi does now, but they got over it and it’s beneficial for both of them. that’s all that’s gonna happen with naruto and the kyuubi, so does that mean bee has beetism?

    sorry for spammin a lil bit everyone. we’re kinda into this i guess haha @_@

  121. @Dish, my comment about Narutoism was pure sarcasm. It’s known the Kyubi is a huge mass of hate, that was never said about any other biju. Bee doesn’t infuriate because he’s so chill and humble, Naruto pushes his destiny in ur face and wipes it across it. But if this story was a little darker Naruto would be a frikking cult leader. Look at Konan’s speech and her behavior. Naruto is Ninja Charles Manson.

  122. ninja charles manson hahahaha..got a good chuckle outta that one.
    ok my B..i saw the “sarcasm” thing but i just thought it applied to the previous sentence not the whole paragraph.
    i really dont think he violates anyone’s face with his destiny though.

  123. @Kisu

    There are two things I would like to point out to you. Firstly, Pein did go around proclaiming himself as god. He did it in his battle with Jiraiya especially and it even got to a point where Konan believed she was his angel. He only admitted that this might be the work of a real god after his battle with Naruto and even then, that suggests that he also came to believe that Naruto was the one who would change the world.

    Now, make all the excuses you want, but by excusing Pein’s attitude while condemning Naruto’s, you are also being as much of a hypocrite as you accuse Naruto of being. After all, how is pretending to be a god less arrogant than what you say Naruto’s claims are?

    Secondly, Naruto was actually pointing out his father to be the savior more than himself. He mentioned multiple times that it was his father who made everything possible and that it was his parent’s faith in him that gives him the strength to do what he needs to.

    He isn’t just relying on a prophecy and he isn’t just trying to take all the glory, that was shown by the fact that he called Minato the real savior and not himself. Naruto is leaning on the faith others have in him and acting on that faith and that is what he attributes his real strength to.

    As for the tree hugging, I think you need a hug more than the trees do. 😛

    *Hugs Kisu to ease his emoness*

    I feel like my life is somehow in danger now. <___<

  124. Wasn’t there suppose to be a limit on how long Naruto could stay in kyuubi mode? I thought the eight tails was pretty damn clear he couldn’t stay like that for too long…

    Anyway, yay for uber hax all the way around…

  125. WRA getting busy 😉

    @ Tenrai – I think you miss understand my support for Pein and the dislike of Naruto. Firstly Pein is a Villain, he was never really a hero. He was a hero in the sense Light is the hero in Death Note. I also don’t think one can compare the arrogance, Pain acted as a god to his people! And they followed him “Willingly” Naruto wants everyone to believe in him, when he can’t even stop Sasuke… There is a difference between Brat and pure arrogance, Pain was a leader and was in a sense selfish in his selflessness but Naruto is so used to getting his own way he doesn’t stop to consider his actions, look at it this way, Pain was twisted and wrong but I like the way he became that way and his ideals as a Villain where better then the usual, Pinky and the Brain skit, “try to take over the world”.

    But in the same breath, Naruto is the target of this war even more then Bee… Madara approuched Naruto and wants him to battle Sasuke for some reason. So him rushing into a war zone that we have no idea about is just foolish in my opinion who will protect Naruto on the battlefield, people will then be split between fighting their own battle and helping Naruto if he is almost captured… and where ever Naruto is Akatsuki will follow, him and Bee I guess… but I don’t feel bee is as important. He has strength but strength alone does not win wars or battles (like I said unless one side has complete over powered the other)

    That is true, but lets say Naruto didn’t have this ability will the Allaince have no plan B? That is pathetic and what else is important for Naruto to be effective is he needs to used Shadow Clone Jutsu which he was Told would kill him, so yeah either Kishi gonna get Naruto to pull something out his butt again or he just gonna be able to do it suddenly and Naruists will nod there heads and say “that is logical” and others will be like, “What the hell? Dammit its the Sasuke Hawk all over again”

    “Here are the facts. If Naruto turns around and hides now, the alliance is as good as dead because they can’t fight an enemy they can’t identify. If Naruto joins the war now, the alliance has hope. That’s the bottom line.”

    Yes and Naruto stopped or asked to go the the command center. (which I did suggest a few chapters ago) That he goes with the Raikage etc and formulate a plan protected by the 2 Kage’s and Bee plus a few others, they have that teleporting tech girl there, they could send Naruto to any part of the battle field and have him return just as quickly but no Naruto wants the front lines. and will have to rely on Shadow clones which will kill him (or should)

    So for all the ranting, that fact doesn’t change, nor does the fact that Naruto is actually needed in this war for there to be any hope at the moment.

    And all the Facts of him being needed does not change the fact that he is rushing into the war too quickly O_O head first and arrogant 😛 wasting chakra by staying SSJ for so long blah blah.

    I compare Naruto to the Raikage for one specific reason, Naruto wants to enter the war as a lone entity, he does not want to listen to the Raikage thus he won’t be a mere soldier he will be a sort of rouge (yes current chapter changes this) but still doesn’t change the fact that Naruto only listens to his commanders when it suites him not as a soldier should listen to his commanding officers. Again I point out his reasons for entering the war… “couldn’t live with MYSELF”

    “He believes he is doing what is best for everyone else, even if it means he has to burden the consequences alone and even though that may not be the smartest choice, it is still very noble”

    Pein BELIEVED killing the hosts and killing millions of people would bring peace for everyone…
    Madara BELIEVES that taking away free will bring about peace.
    Sasuke BELIEVES he needs to take revenge on Konoha for Itachi’s death…

    Believing you are right and doing the “noble” thing is very different. Plus if Naruto is caught then the concequence will be not his own to bear, not even the ninja world, but EVERYONE, women, children, etc.

    Naruto wants to save the people’s lives the Ninja that is, HIS friends, not the world, in the end the world does need him but if he continues and is caught then the war will not only cost the 80 million but every person will become slaves to Tobi…

    You need to remember that this is a manga we are talking about. It isn’t always going to have a perfectly realistic outcome or one that follows the rules of the real world. Think of Death Note and how that ended. <_<

    Lol bringing up Death Note that is a low blow 😛 but Death Note was realistic till the last episode where Near used a cheat code dammit X_X

  126. @Pein0avenue

    I don’t know why you associate Naruto’s confidence with arrogance. You said it yourself, Pein killed others to achieve his goals, even children, and he elevated his perception of himself to the point where he thought of himself as a god. who had the right to decide the fates of all others in the world.

    Naruto is trying to save everyone, not to dictate how they should live, or who should die. He is trying to shoulder the burden himself so that no-one else has to. Is it the smartest thing to do? Probably not. But that doesn’t change the fact that he is acting purely for the sake of others and not himself. So I STILL don’t understand why you regard him as arrogant or selfish. He is flawed and he is human, that’s as far as I would go, but he is not a bad person or a self-centered person like you make him out to be.

    “Believing you are right and doing the “noble” thing is very different.”

    Yes, that is correct. What you consider to be noble will differ from what others consider to be noble. So, you tell me out of Madara, Naruto and Pein, whose actions you think are the most noble, considering all three of their goals are the same.

    1: Pein – tries to achieve his goals no matter the cost, even if it means killing thousands of innocents.

    2: Madara – is willing to kill anyone to achieve his goals, just like Pein, and believes an illusion of peace is the best answer.

    3: Naruto – Is rushing into a war to protect his friends, and is trying to shoulder the burden of hatred himself so that no-one has to.

    “Plus if Naruto is caught then the consequence will be not his own to bear, not even the ninja world, but EVERYONE, women, children, etc.”

    If the alliance loses the war, then there will be nothing left for Naruto to save by hiding in any case. Madara will have killed all his friends, all his loved ones and anyone else he feels like. He won’t stop until he has Naruto and he won’t stop killing everyone in his way. If everyone in the world suffers from Madara’s wrath because the alliance could not stop him, how is that any different from Naruto being captured?

    “Naruto wants to save the people’s lives the Ninja that is, HIS friends, not the world, in the end the world does need him but if he continues and is caught then the war will not only cost the 80 million but every person will become slaves to Tobi…”

    i disagree with this above statement. Naruto is trying to fulfill the beliefs of his master and his father, to try and achieve peace, which is a goal that benefits the entire world, not just his friends. But Naruto also knows that if he can’t stop the most hateful of all people, then he has failed to achieve that goal. That is why he has decided to deal with Sasuke himself. If he can’t deal with Sasuke, or the Kyuubi for that matter, then he can’t achieve his goal because hatred will still exist.

    As for the world not needing him, I’ve already pointed out that this is not the case. The alliance is as good as dead without Naruto right now. So, in that sense, the world does need him right now.

    “Lol bringing up Death Note that is a low blow 😛 but Death Note was realistic till the last episode where Near used a cheat code dammit X_X”

    I would rather call it a tactical strike. And saying that a kid having the power of a death god who can kill anyone who’s name he writes in his note book is hardly realistic. It’s just another story with its own nuances, like any other. <_<

    In any case, when Naruto talked to the old Sage Toad, and the sage toad asked him if he knew what Sasuke was, he said he did and that he knew what he had to do. I think Naruto already has a plan, despite your claims that he is rushing in blindly. Just because you don't know his plan doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think we just need to be a bit more patient and see how Kishi pulls it off. Whether he does or doesn't is another story, but only time will tell.

  127. Maybe we should start another debate. Like, Raikage vs Tsunade. Lol.

    I can guess where most people would vote though. <_<

  128. Wall of Text I choose you!

    @ Tenrai

    Easy, I say its arrogance cause Naruto has no solution but still believes he will somehow figure it out, “arrogance” – is when someone believes something they can’t do, or don’t know how to do. Like driving, being confident is getting into the car and trying your best but being cautious while doing so, arrogance is getting into a F1 car and expecting to still win the race… I know Naruto is strong, but in the question of peace he has not answer yet so him declaring because a few frogs, his god father and dad and mom and a few others believe in him is not really a good enough reason in my eyes. My mom believed I can be a surgen but I have problems with my hands that shake when im nervous, think I should walk into a surgens room and be like I’ll do it somehow… AGAIN I am not talking about strength now I think this is where people are confusing what I am saying, I am talking about strategy, and the ability to stop the circle of hate.

    But Naruto’s actions have a domino effect on everyone! His actions are so he can live with himself and so he doesn’t have to deal with Pain, I can’t understand how people aren’t seeing this, he believes because he been told he is a “special little boy” that nothing he does effects others and all his pain only affect him…

    Case: Sasuke – Naruto believed letting Sasuke live and being able to save him was HIS duty alone cause they where special friends, he want Sasuke to be alive to selfishly hold onto that bond and Sakura promise, so instead of attacking Sasuke he hits the forhead protector to prove a point, at first who suffers? only Naruto and those close to Sasuke which are few, but in the long run his selfish desire to be able to change that which cant be changed lead to the death of many good samurai and almost cost Bee his life…

    Naruto does tell people how to live @_@ he punched Gaara to change, he punched Neji to change, he gave Nagato to change @_@ some people will say he does just not in a forceful way he more pushes them there.

    1: Pein – tries to achieve his goals no matter the cost, even if it means killing thousands of innocents. = Villain!

    2: Madara – is willing to kill anyone to achieve his goals, just like Pein, and believes an illusion of peace is the best answer. = Villain!

    3: Naruto – Is rushing into a war to protect his friends, and is trying to shoulder the burden of hatred himself so that no-one has to. prime word here, Friends, if one does good only to benifit yourself and those close to u is it really good? Is forgetting your actions hurt others Good, is Naruto wanting to save his “FRIEND” Sasuke mean that his actions of letting him live Good?

    Well Madara is only interested in the Ninja world so I would say the difference is alot!! About 5 times the amoutn of ninja… if not more

    I would rather call it a tactical strike. And saying that a kid having the power of a death god who can kill anyone who’s name he writes in his note book is hardly realistic. It’s just another story with its own nuances, like any other. <_<

    Well each manga is not really realistic, the point being in a Naruverse and Death Note, certain rules are placed, limits etc. like gravity 😛 but if you allow yourself one impossible ideal, like a killer note book then Death Note is the most realistic I think.

    If Naruto had a plan he wouldn't act as he is, he is rushing like a mad man using up his strength and the "plan" he has will be nul and void cause his information is not the best. Like where is Sasuke etc… Naruto never has a real plan I think 😛

    @_@

  129. There are a lot of angry people on this forum. You need to forgive yourselves first. Only then can you let go of the burden that anger places on the soul. Next, you need to believe in Naruto (there is a clue in the title of the Manga). Third, I thought kage bunshins + kyuubi mode were a no-no. Fourth, possibly, sage mode + kyuubi mode + kage bunshins may be a yes-yes (definitely would be interesting to see). Fourth the six paths of pain did retain the powers they had before they were implanted with new eyes. Fifth, shinra tensei will be a walk in the park with bijuu level chakra which the jinchu dudes should possess. Sixth, there is a big difference between running really fast and FTG, someone give me Kishi’s number.

  130. darkgeenie – I cannot just blindly believe anything @_@ its goes against everything I believe

    I quite happy with myself to be honest, its blind believing that I cant forgive 😛

    I must say if it is true then the new bodies gonna be good
    but I miss deva path 😦

  131. I just realized something. Both Pein and Itachi had their eyes removed by Madara but with forbidden ressurection, they get them back. Doesn’t his mean they were apart of their original bodies/abilities? That would mean the rinnegan WAS Peins and not simply transplanted by Madara. The swordsman only had their swords if they werent taken(like how bee has samehada). So if its something not apart of your original body and was taken, you dont get it back with impure ressurection.

  132. @ mantisguy, It’s clear Nagato had the rinnegan ever since he was born, the only question is what did Tobi mean by saying ” I gave Nagato the rinnegan”. I commented with Gavin a few posts up about a possible fusion of DNA between a Uzunaki born child like Nagato was and uchiha blood or any kind of DNA thus resulting in a near perfect Sage of six path body with the original body and eyes of the sage.

    It’s said that the Senju and Uchiha are the descendants of the 1st and 2nd sons of the sage, but by the characteristics the Uzumaki posses they should be more pure blooded then the Senju because of the long life and stamina they posses.

    And for all we know the fusion I’m talking about could be from Hyuuga dna and Uzumaki for that matter, because we were told from the start that the Byakugan was the first doujutsu derived from the rinnegan and not the sharingan.
    So maybe a uzumaki and hyuuga combo is purer then a Senju & uchiha one.

  133. @eugene

    That would def be an interesting turn in the story. I’m curious as to when well find that out. Could madara have been experimenting on people like orochimaru? Hmmmmm…

    I don’t agree with uzumaki being purer though…they simply inherited the characteristics of long life, stamina, and willpower. The senju got the eye doju and the sages chakra. Who is to say which is purer? Technically speaking the senju was the older brother, first born, so I would think if any is purer it would be them..

    The uzumaki hyuuga combo….hrrmmmmmm. Maybe if Naruto sheds a bit more of his thick-headedness and realization Hinata wants his..ahem…”fox”…they’ll have a kid and well get to see..

  134. @ mantisguy, =)) ” Hinata wants..,”his fox” lol dude, right you are, no need for experiments there :))

  135. So with these “Hinatai” discussions, should we start speculating on a new series after Shippuuden? Maybe where Konahamaru becomes Hokage and Naruto retires to BBQ with Sasuke and their families, and teach his new So6P brood how to be saviors? Poor Hinata – can you imagine taking care of a pack of mini-Naruto’s? And what of Sasuke’s wife? Can you imagine the upkeep of a house full of Katon users? No wood, please. Just stone.. lots and lots of stone in the house…

  136. must… remember.. to click.. sodding box… down below the comment…. grrr

  137. I used to like Naruto because he was a human. Now he’s a semi god that wields the ultimate truth and everyone must submit to his views. Statements like this:

    Naruto: “Saviors don’t make mistakes, so I won’t.”

    Statements like that doesn’t anger anyone? I mean, really. 😦

  138. you must be paraphrasing something cuz he definitely never said that

  139. Saviors don’t make mistakes, their followers do ;-). So, who will be the apostles of Naruto, and what misinterpretations will be made?

    Possibilities:
    Gaara
    Tsunade
    Rock Lee
    Sakura

    Would Sasuke be more of a Judas?

  140. I think Shikamaru is an obvious candidate

  141. dont forget konohamaru’s squad

  142. dont forget konohamaru’s squad

  143. “Maybe we should start another debate. Like, Raikage vs Tsunade. Lol.

    I can guess where most people would vote though. <_<"

    Tsunade, off course. For two reasons… ^__^

    "Naruto: “Saviors don’t make mistakes, so I won’t.

    Statements like that doesn’t anger anyone? I mean, really. :("

    No, why would it. There's a difference between confidence and arrogance.

    Nagato/Pain stating he was the God that would cleanse the world was arrogance. He clearly couldn't. Why? Because he was stopped by 'an arrogant brat'.

    Madara attacking Konan without any sort of strategy believing he couldn't get hurt was arrogance. Especially because he got hurt several times before. Minato whooped his ass, Hashirama 'killed' him and he lost an arm against Danzo's escorts.

    Sasuke attacking Bee head on without any knowledge of Bee whatsoever was arrogance. He believed because of his (Mangekyou) Sharingan he was unbeatable.

    Sasuke carelessly killing Samurai and therefore revealing his whereabouts to the Raikage was arrogance. He clearly did not learn his lesson from the fight with Bee.

    Compare that to Naruto who immediately admitted the Raikage was a tough nut to crack. You won't see Sasuke admitting an opponent is equal to or greater than himself. Furthermore, Naruto doesn't talk down to his friends or opponents. He treats everybody the same way, as equals to himself.

    But, all in all your bitching still stems from the Pain arc when Naruto defeated Nagato 'with a book'. you still fail to see why Nagato lost so please, before ranting on, think about what made Nagato change his mind. I'll give you a little hint. It wasn't the book or Naruto's "I won't give up" statement.

    Still, I doubt you'll ever see it differently. The biggest drive behind this rant of yours is Naruto defeating Nagato. That will never change so your opinion of Naruto won't change either. So, in a way, having this discussion with you is pointless at best. Therefore this will be my last post about the 'Naruto is pure evil and must die' debate. You win by default. Damn that Naruto for taking it upon himself to try and keep his friends and loved ones from getting hurt!! Who does he think he is!!

  144. Yeah Baron, what kind of a sick twisted kid throws himself in death’s embrace all for someone else’s peace and safety. What a asshole :)) no seriously this sarcasm thing is really entertaining.

  145. “The biggest drive behind this rant of yours is Naruto defeating Nagato. ”

    You couldn’t be more wrong about that if you tried. In my mind Naruto never defeated Nagato but eh. What’s driving my rant is exactly what I said, Naruto’s arrogance. He’s calling himself a savior, and the imagery this chapter made it seem like Kushina and Minato are deities. All this prophecy garbage is killing this manga. What really got my ire though was Naruto calling himself a savior. Saviors dont call themselves that. I’ve NEVER read a manga or watched an anime, or any series where the protagonist (not villain protagonist) calls themselves a savior. The pretentiousness in a statement like that hurts. But hey, it shows how Kishi’s has killed Naruto’s original characterization. Maybe his second manga won’t be this corny.

    I mean really, he could’ve said “I don’t give a fuck what people call me, I’m just going to end this war”, but instead he was like “A saviors doesn’t make mistakes, so I wont”. That statement means he’s banking EVERYTHING on the prophecy instead of forging his own destiny like back in Part 1.

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/544/12

    Finally, your last point was Naruto is doing this for his friends. You are wrong. He clearly says it here that he’s doing it so he doesn’t think less of himself. He’s selfish in sacrificing the well-being of the whole world (billions) just so he doesn’t lose his friends (a few dozens at best). I’ll post two different translations

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/93368877/6
    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/541/4

    People are on Naruto’s side just because they empathize with him. But what if Kishi stuck gedo mazo inside some random kid we’ve never seen before then have him in naruto’s position right now? Everyone would be like “this kid needs to listen to reason blah blah blah”. Sometimes you need to put aside feelings and actually think.

    I’m done with this. No need to debate a point I explained so thoroughly by now. Let’s end this on a lighter note shall we?

  146. Here’s an old Kishimoto interview for anyone interested.




  147. @ Kisu, speaking of Kishi, wasn’t a datebook supposed to come out these year or something like that, because for as long as I’ve been reading Naruto I never saw a new datebook since the 3rd that was out about 4 years back.

  148. @Eugen, well I dunno about the date, but I do know so far a Databook has come out every 3 years. The last once came out in 08 so one SHOULD be coming out this year.

  149. I really hope to see some of the former kages stats as well as former jinchuriki and most of the new kabuto summons as well. It will make the debates a little more accurate.

    Plus I wanna see what Nagato was really like in Kishi’s eyes as far as power goes, if it were up to me I’d power him up to the max all but the speed, seeing as he was in a wheelchair and all.

    Sasuke should be pretty much all maxed out as well by now. I really don’t see how a person that can’t go blind anymore and has unlimited use of Susano’o and amaterasu and who knows what else could possibly lose to anyone.

  150. I was thinking of things we might see in these final battles, and one would be Sasuke using Izanagi. I thought a bit more (painful I know), and wondered if he already learned it during his fight with Danzo. Maybe that’s where he created the hawk summons out of his butt. He experimented with Izanagi. Maybe he also lost one of his eyes doing it, which would partially explain his rush to use Itachi’s eyes.

    Man, that Itachi / Sasuke reunion is gonna be a bummer… lol

  151. @ arpotu, I actually wonder, since the light never dies after a sharingan transplant is done, would a Izanagi close a EMS or would Sasuke be able to do all the Izanagi he wants depending on his chakra pool.

    As for him already using Izanagi, I don’t think that happened because one of his eyes should have closed just like Danzou’s did and just like Madara’s right eye did after he took the 6 billion tag surprise from Konan. Damn that number still leaves my brain hurting just thinking about it. Poor Konan worked her ass of to make that awesomeness to the max degree trap and Madara just wished himself away, talk about a slap to the face.

    As for the Sasuke/Itachi reunion, I can just hope Sasuke bursts into tears and Itachi just giving him a glare that says : “You are one dumb motherfucker”. Ohh sweet dreams…….. but all joking aside, I hope Sasuke dose turn out to be a good guy undercover and slashing Madara in front of Itachi would be the perfect pay back Sasuke can do both for himself for his brother and for the clan and all the world, thus Itachi’s wish would be granted, the wish that Sasuke would be seen as a hero to the Leaf and the entire world for putting a stop to Madara.

    But all this won’t happen without Naruto’s aid for sure, because that’s just how Kiashi would probably play it out.
    Personally I would like to see Sasuke putting a stop to Madara on his own, naruto always took down the most powerful enemy from the start; he took down Haku and then went toe to toe with Oro for a brief moment in the chunin exams, after that he took down Gaara and from then on we know all to well. I just hope Sasuke will get his chance to shine above all others in a good way.

    Mostly because this is exactly like Goku and Vegeta’s relation where Vegeta was always one step behind Goku, even after goku’s and vegeta both achieved SSJ 4, Goku had to absorb the dragon balls just to make himself godlike. Hope Kishi didn’t borrow that from DBZ also.

  152. Sasuke learning techniques? PREPOSTEROUS! All he needs to do is stick his hand up his ass and he has a new badass jutsu.

  153. @ Eugen – I agree, it would be cool in a way, kinda like the Majin Vegeta arc, going evil killing people and then blowing up to save everyone… I am hoping for Sasuke to be more like that…

    @ WRA – Who is your fav character that is still alive?

    I wonder who kisu would pick @_@

    I hate them all equally personally 😛

  154. No breakdown this week, at least not from me. Very busy this weekend. Sorry guys. 😦

  155. @kisu Why did he not have to do that , to get the new summon ‘Outta nowhere? 😛

  156. I think both Sasuke and Naruto have the kill rights to Madara (hell, the list is pretty long now that I think about it). But with regards to just these two, Madara (allegedly) ordered the destruction of the Uchiha. And, without Madara’s meddling, Naruto would still have his parents (and no 9-tailed eternal spicy burrito in his belly).

    I don’t think Naruto has had all the good battles. After all Sasuke has “disposed of” Danzo, Itachi, Orochimaru, and Madara is on his dance card.

    With regards to Izanagi, it was stated that the duration for each user varies, so maybe Sasuke’s eye lasted longer than Danzo’s? Dunno, I’m guessing there 🙂

  157. @pein, Raikage, the 7 Swordsmen except Kisame’s old master (if you count Edo Zombies as being “alive”), Kabuto, Kimimaro and Mei. Everyone else I’m either indifferent to or hate.

  158. My favorite characters are Naruto, Sasuke, Kabuto, Neji and Kakashi. As for dead people i’d say Minato, Tobirama, Itachi, Nagato, Muu, Kakuzu, Jirayia and Orochimaru.

  159. I do think Kishi could have handled this whole “savior” thing better, as I see where Kisu’s coming from with it conflicting with Naruto’s character from part 1. His “screw destiny” attitude was probably what got a sizable portion of people to start reading this manga in the first place. But I can see how he’s rolling with the whole prophecy thing. I mean, in this short of a time frame; he’s learned all about everything his parents did for him and the village, he’s never had anything to be this proud of before. I prefered the Naruto of part 1, but I can see how this Naruto came about.

    My favorite character is, has always been, and will always be Shikamaru. He’s exactly how I would be if I was a ninja. ( you know, until he got motivated ) Neji and Kabuto are also cool.

  160. Favourite’s eh ?

    Kakashi, Itachi , Minato , Shikamaru , and now Bee ever so slightly 😉

  161. Fodder: So Naruto, what’s your economic model for the future? Do you have any plans on revolutionizing fishery, livestock, and agriculture?

    Naruto: What? I’m here to bring peace to the world!

    Fodder: Well, your whole plan of peace could leave a lot of people unemployed, and besides as I’m sure you know, economic strife is the cause of many conflicts in the world!

    Naruto: ….

    Fodder: So, which models will you propose to mitigate povery, starvation, and employment? Keeping the populace happy and healthy, and preventing a horrible and violent uprise by the impoverished?

    Naruto: I-I-I…I’m the savior! Just believe in me.

    Fodder: That’s fine and dandy but none of that puts food on my table! So, what are your economic credentials? Which professor did you study under?

    Naruto: …I…I…A FROG AND MY DEAD PARENTS SAID I COULD!!!

  162. Shhhhh… don’t mention the Squirrels, frogs or butterflys here. They’ll notice. They’re watching even NOW!!!

  163. Hmm favorite characters alive I’d say The Fourth Raikage, Hinata, Guy, B, Darui. Dead people: Kakuzu, Deidara, Jiraiya, Minato, Kushina and The seven Swordsmen (especially Kushimaru who wields Nuibari reminds of Gin a little bit.) Everybody else is meh until I can think of someone else.

  164. forgot Lee

  165. If we equate Naruto to “Tommy: The Rock Opera”, who would be his “wicked uncle Ernie”? Jiraya or Guy?

  166. @kisuzachi: You’re kinda trolling now, more than debating. But I have some time to throw in my two cents.

    kisuzachi and pein0avenue have been arguing a few points that are anti-Naruto. There are two, mostly, that I’ve noticed.

    1) The Raikage’s actions were valid concerning the attempt to kill Naruto.

    2) Naruto is arrogant because he thinks he is the savior.

    For the first one: On the whole, the argument doesn’t hold up for Raikage’s actions. I believe DarkAvatar basically said it best when he mentioned his example of America killing an Australian soldier in the same way. The Raikage was playing judge, jury, and executioner. He was out of line. And if kisuzachi or pein0avenue still want to debate this… well, all I can say is that currently it is a losing argument for you guys when it comes to popularity. In my opinion you two are also logically wrong. For example, one of you keeps telling us to look at things from the Raikage’s side. How do you know we aren’t? Just because we’re on the other side of your argument? That’s no way to debate is it?

    For the second topic, I doubt that this one can come to any sort of conclusion – though I suspect this is a losing argument too, due to most people on here (I am assuming here a bit) liking Naruto’s ideals and his personality.

    Naruto is saying he is the savior, and that does take confidence. He has earned that through many many battles won, including the battle with Pein. It was said somewhere up there that he lost the battle with Pein, when he very clearly won. I’m not sure how someone could even think that. But either way, he has earned his confidence. He has also heard factual evidence of how powerful he is. His dad and mom let him know that it was their plan to give him the power to defeat Madara. Those are facts, and both Naruto and the audience can rely on those facts.

    Naruto’s definition of ‘being the savior’ is different than other people’s definition as well. Naruto knows full well about the prophecy. He knew that everyone thought his dad was the chosen one. He is wearing the name of ‘savior’ more like a badge. Whether or not people think it’s lame that he was able to dodge the Raikage, it is true either way that Naruto has proved himself worthy of the ‘savior’ badge, time and time again. This time it is more valid than ever, since he proved himself to the Raikage.

    So instead of the idea that Naruto thinks he is a god (which is BS), it seems clear that it is just a title that has fallen to him though the generations. He is no more savior than the first Hokage, and I believe Naruto knows that. He does not think of himself as a god or a diety or something arrogant. The responsibility and the title has fallen on him. Believing in himself, having confidence in his self worth, and knowing his strengths is not arrogant. Using his power to change the world like he did with Pein is not arrogant. The fact that he thinks he can change things, is not arrogance. This has been spelled out many many times for kisuzachi and pein0avenue.

    So what I’m saying is this:

    1) The Raikage was out of line concerning the attempt to kill Naruto.

    2) Naruto’s savior title is relevant and valid, not arrogant.

    The one thing I will say against the first point is that the Raikage might have wanted to ‘test’ Naruto, not kill him. But we don’t know that. The Raikage more likely had a change of heart later on after Bee won his battle with him. It fits better with the story. And either way, doesn’t change my stance on it.

  167. What I don’t understand is that Naruto never really called himself a saviour because the Raikage said that the saviour lives on in you pointing out that the real saviour is Naruto’s Father, not him. He is just using what his parents left for him. And if you were Naruto an had all that power, I would be a little selfish too because my friends mean a lot to me and I would do whatever I could to save them.

  168. @Gavin- much agreed on all your points. naruto doesn’t consider himself above everyone else by calling himself a savior. As a Christian myself, i fully understand that the word “savior” can be used to refer to someone as a religious figurehead. however, i think it’s clear naruto is not using this word in these terms. he’s not trying to get people to follow his ways or going around telling everyone how they should live like him. he’s saying “savior” in different sense of the word, as in “a person who rescues another person or a thing from danger or harm”

    he just wants to save his friends, his loved ones, n hell while he’s at it he wants to save the world. that’s his mindset.

  169. Somebody quizzed me on this just yesterday. Which type are you? :

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

    I was offended at first (mostly the dumb part that got to me), but it’s actually pretty amusing (and spot on about the descriptions).

  170. @ Gavin, I agree with you 100% and just like Dish said “savior” is a word many will interpret the wrong way, I would just like to add to your post that the only thing Naruto is guilty of is CONFIDENCE witch is not by far the same thing as arrogance.

    If you keep training hard like Naruto has, and achieve the level of power he has now and everyone that’s been there by your side tells you that you are the best chance they have and that you surpassed your previous heroes, then by all means you should have complete confidence in your self.

    The bottom line is, Raikage believes in him so any point any of us made regarding his decision and if it was the right one or not in now void for the obvious reason that Raikage said Minato was a man that would not be surpassed and here comes a 16 year old kid with the speed and skill that rivals that of Minato.

    Say what you will but Naruto is far beyond any individual ninja out there, with only a dozen shinobi at most that can fall in the same category as him, and I sure that just like Ramen is Naruto’s favorite food, Sasuke will gain a skill that will be just a little more badass then Naruto is right now, and the only means for Naruto to even the balance will probably be Itachi’s gift.

  171. “@kisuzachi: You’re kinda trolling now, more than debating. But I have some time to throw in my two cents.”

    “I’m done with this. No need to debate a point I explained so thoroughly by now. “-Kisuzachi

    And yes, I’m just trolling now.

    @orangeorange, lol I already read that article it’s funny. Just out of curiosity, how long were you stuck at tvtropes? I assume that was your first time there hehe

  172. I think even Naruto (the character) fans, like I was, can admit that this whole child of prophecy/destiny bullshit is unbelievably corny, cheesy, and ultimately unnecessary. It was one thing when Jiraiya and Minato entrusted Naruto to find an “answer” to world peace, but the whole savior complex is just TOO much

  173. I Kinda agree with Kisu , Naruto is Becoming way too arrogant . So he Beat an Already Dead Pein with the help of his dad and he now thinks he is the savior? Bs Fact is even Sasugay is many levels above him and Even he doesn’t deserve to be Arrogant . Take Itachi as an example if you would!

  174. “@ WRA – Who is your fav character that is still alive? ”

    Bee and Mei.

    Bee because he kicked the shit out of Sasuke and showed him who’s boss.

    And Mei because of two reaso… No seriously, Mei is pure awesomeness.

    Oh, and Kakashi off course. But that’s a given.

    “@kisuzachi: You’re kinda trolling now, more than debating.”

    Kinda trolling? He’s been trolling like this ever since Nagato got smack-talked out of his wheelchair and died because he couldn’t take the enlightening words Naruto laid down upon him. Kisu is still trying to resist but as everybody knows;
    It is useless to resist. Don’t let yourself be destroyed as Obi W… Uhmm Nagato did.

    “Sasugay is many levels above him and Even he doesn’t deserve to be Arrogant.”

    How so? Sasuke couldn’t even see the Raikage move (with his ‘superior’ Mangekyo Sharingan) let alone dodge his attack. Furthermore, Sasuke has been acting arrogant and selfish ever since he left Konoha and pissed on the hopes and dreams Itachi had for him.

    In terms of arrogance Sasuke rules all.

  175. @kisuzachi and Ahsan: The ‘savior complex’ idea is kind of made up, I think. And to treat it like it is narcissism or arrogance is to totally misinterpret the manga.

    The complaints about the prophecy thing, I don’t get that either. It is simply that the characters in the manga have been trying to figure out what the prophecy means. No one really knows. Naruto is thinking he can carry the ‘torch’ of being the savior. That is his translation. From what I read he is not saying that his dad wasn’t the savior, or even that it wasn’t Jiraya. In fact, I’m pretty sure he said that he is taking over for his dad.

    And again with the Pein thing. Naruto clearly won that battle, which was amazing in and of itself. But also, he also successfully changed Pein’s mind – resulting in the revival of Kakashi and many more of the lives that could have been lost. Please tell me how that was not significant.

  176. “He’s been trolling like this ever since Nagato got smack-talked out of his wheelchair”

    What do you consider to be trolling? Having a different opinion? If so, then more power to you bro.

  177. To everyone bickering over whether Naruto makes it through this war or not, whether or not he is right in his decision to enter the battlefield, and whether or not he is becoming full of himself for proclaiming himself as a savior, how about I just make this easy for all of you:

    Madara had heavily alluded to an eventual Naruto vs Sasuke showdown. Sasuke got Itachi’s eyes transplanted into him. And this it would be pointless for Sasuke to at his most powerful, only to find that Madara already captured and killed Naruto. Sasuke would be like, “WTF! I did all this for nothing?!”

    Trust me folks, Naruto will survive this. And speaking of Sasuke, how friggin long is it going to take before we FINALLY see what Sasuke’s Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan looks like? I mean it took no time at all for Madara to replace his left Sharingan eye (which was blinded from using Izanagi) with the Rinnegan.

  178. @ Kevin, I’m guessing Sasuke should make a comeback in no more the 3-4 weeks.

    @ WRA, About Sasuke using Izanagi, I don’t understand one thing, Madara first said at the sight of Danzou using Izanagi that it’s a jutsu forbidden to the Uchiha because it closes the eye after using the technique for good, but how can Izanagi be a Uchiha jutsu when it takes both Uchiha and Senju blood to be able to perform it. This jutsu can’t be used by anyone except someone like Nagato, or a lab rat like Danzo or Tobi, was the statement Tobi made about the Uchiha forbidding the technique wrong from his stand point or was it a error made by Kishi?

    Sasuke won’t be able to use such a technique because he has no Senju or Uzumaki blood coursing through his vanes. But depending on Itachi’s gift Naruto might just be able to pull it off at the cost of losing his eyes.

  179. “What do you consider to be trolling? Having a different opinion? If so, then more power to you bro.”

    When you’re almost the only one with that ‘opinion’, yes.

    I only get the sense you’re making these comments just to rile up Naruto fans. If not then we know your opinion about Naruto by now. There’s absolutely no need to repeat it 50 times during every breakdown. Next point of interest please because it’s getting pretty boring to read the same comment from you over and over and over again.

    But that’s just my opinion.

  180. I don’t mean to throw gasoline on the fire here but Baron has a good point, we argue way too much on things already known, let’s just move on with something new, there’s no need to make the same old points over and over when we already know most of the blog’s regular people opinions on the matters at hand. It’s really not a matter of debate or even politeness when a subject gets so much into detail that all we do is repeat our own views over and over.

    The thing is the manga ( Kishi ) already gave us the answers to every question we had lately, our only motive was to debate weather or not our opinions will be true to the manga or not.

    When the manga gives us the answer there’s no more need to over analyze matters already known.

    Throws Oreos and Cheese Cake at infuriated readers and backs away slowly.

  181. I’d have to agree with Kisu on the whole Naruto debate. It would have been way better for Naruto to remark that “destiny talk” was irritating. Who’s to say that a loser like him can not make it by his will and work ethic? And for the author to flip the script on us and basically say “ha, just kiddin’ there is destiny, your path is set in stone” is kinda lame. And yes, that is what destiny is, Neji clarified it pretty well in his battle with Naruto. Naruto eventually accepted that fact too when he started believing the toads prophecy of a savior. It would have been better if he thought that what he was doing was out of respect for those who believed in him. not because he was a savior, but because of his strong will and work ethic. I don’t think Naruto is being arrogant but I do hate that he is accepting destiny by calling himself a savior. Again, this is all just personal preference. Again I have to realize this is just a story. A story that is about progression of a naive, young, stubborn kid into a worldly, peace loving, young man. In his progression he has to find ways of getting through the grimes of the every day shinobi life, and what better way to get through the day then to call yourself a savior. I don’t know about you guys but if I were to be called savior be other (powerful) people and call myself a savior, that’d just make me feel a whole lot better and make me want to work harder so I can hopefully hold the mantle of savior when the time comes.

    -rant mode off

  182. I want to see what Naruto is going to be used for? I thought he can’t split up in to clones in NT chakra mode? Will he have the soldiers move on the enemy by commanding them? How would he be able to contact all the soldiers?

  183. @thelaughingwiseman: Let me suggest to you then, that Naruto believes he is making his own destiny. This would imply that he can have a destiny. This also leaves room for hard work and ethic to be the only reason he has gotten so damned far in his life. I don’t think Naruto is taking that for granted.

    You’ve basically pointed out something I think is interesting in the story. There are a lot of confrontations between people who have worked hard to be where they are and people who are ‘special’ or haven’t done anything to get the power that they have been given. And there are a lot of debates about this too. It is never black and white. Naruto has been given special powers, and has also been one of the most hard working individuals in the story. The same could be said about Sasuke.

    My answer would be to say that no matter what you have been given… No matter what cards you’ve been dealt. No matter if you have the rinnegan, sharingan, a tailed beast, incredible smarts, or whatever else… If you are the kind of person that never gives up, you will get that respect for standing up for what you believe in and doing what you want to do in life. Naruto has been this kind of person, and actually, so have some of the villains. But Naruto’s energy comes from a much lighter place than Madara’s or Sasuke’s.

    It seems like any place that there is an imbalance, that something crazy happens. Like… When Jiriya and Orochimaru. Jiriya kind of gave up on Orochimaru – and Orochimaru ended up killing the Hokage. There are others like that too. When Yahiko was killed, Nagato let his might turn dark. And it seems like if Naruto died, that Sasuke would severely imbalance their future – most likely in a negative way.

    Anyway… I guess the only thing I really wanted to say is that all this destiny/savior stuff doesn’t stop me from thinking of Naruto the same way as I always did. So I agree with thelaughingwiseman, that being the savior would make him want to work harder – but also, that the Naruto we all know and love since the first chapter, is still alive and well.

  184. tl;dr – Isn’t changing your destiny the hardest work of all?

  185. “When you’re almost the only one with that ‘opinion’, yes”

    I could come up with some pretentious defense that great thinkers throughout history have disagreed with popular theory and ways of thinking, but I won’t because I’m that awesome 😉

    But seriously though, I talk about what happens in each chapter. It’s just that each chapter Naruto says or does something stupid. I’m going to point it out since no one else will. Since you like bringing up Nagato so much, remember I was one of the few that said even though Naruto’s performance was great, there was A LOT going in his favor.

    I don’t say things to make people angry, I just look at evidence and think like someone in the Naruniverse would. This whole Raikage-Naruto thing is a prime example of Watsonian vs Doylist in that we know Naruto’s the hero and will succeed but to Raikage he’s just some upstart declaring himself a savior.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist

    But you are entitled to your opinion Red. Now if you’ll excuse me, I got some trolling to do. *Guy thumbs and smile*

  186. @kisuzachi: The Watsonian vs. Doyalist example is interesting. You are saying that your argument is Watsonian, trying to take the perspective of the Raikage using the story alone as the basis of your arguments. And that perhaps we are being Doyalists, saying: Why would you side with the Raikage when the main character is Naruto?

    It’s pretentious of you to say that though, even though it isn’t necessarily mean spirited. It does make clear that meta arguments about the author himself probably shouldn’t be used for debate nor should we make light of the fact that Naruto is the main character, but what you say also assumes that we aren’t covering our bases. There have been points made on both sides of the Watsonian and Doyalist fence on the pro-Naruto side. And I don’t think this debate is a prime example of Watsonian vs. Doyalist anyway.

    We all know Naruto does stupid things in the story. The characters in the story know it too. Would characters in the story think that Naruto is arrogant? Sure. But is he arrogant? Hell no. Most characters in the story who thought he was arrogant have changed their minds about him.

  187. In fact, isn’t that one of the themes of Naruto? Often someone like kisuzachi comes along and doesn’t believe in Naruto. Then Naruto shows the hard work and tenacity to be able to change his mind. Maybe someday he’ll stop being so stubborn. 🙂

  188. @All those in favor of Naruto

    There is a very fine line between self-confidence and arrogance , and Arrogance would only lead you down [Sasugay] . Ofcourse Naruto is the main character so it wont apply to him.

  189. @Ahsan: …

    *facepalm*

  190. Naruto’s self-confidence or arrogance has nothing to do with the words coming out of his mouth, but rather his ability or inability to back them up with actions. Since we haven’t seen his planned actions only Kishimoto himself can really say for certain what it is at this point.

    As for the whole savior thing, Raikage was the first to bring the word up and I believe that Naruto was only responding to that rather than declaring himself a savior.

  191. Who think B is going to make it all the way to the end of the story?

  192. Who think Killer B is going to make it all the way to the end of the story?

  193. @wiseman- unfortunately, because he has become one of my favorite characters, i doubt very much he will. just for the simple reason of moving the plot along, like madara is goin to get THAT close to completing his goal before he is stopped.

  194. @ Dish, Bee might just give Naruto the Hachibi in a attempt to stop the overwhelming power of Madara, kabuto and Sasuke, seeing as the Hachibi is already tamed and Naruto might tame the fox as well, he could actually fuse the two bijuu to give himself the edge in a otherwise loosing battle.

    But most likely Madara’s plan will become a reality and the Sasuke, Naruto tag team will be all that stands between Madara ruling the world and Salvation.

  195. Oh Killerbee’s a dead man walking. He had a flashback, he’s Naruto’s new master, he’s a Jinchuriki and this one is kinda mean but everyone knows the black dude dies first… he’s practically dead already.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackDudeDiesFirst

  196. What else can Naruto possibly learn from Killer B? Truly mastering the tailed beast?

  197. Kisu u nailed it on the head that time, but keep in mind Iruka and Kakashi are still in the game, even if Kakashi technically did die already so there’s hope yet.

    But unfortunately besides being black, Bee is also a famous rapper, need I mention Tupac, Biggie, Jam-Master Jay and a lot more talented black artists that were cut short.
    One thing is fore sure, Bee will get shot one way or another.

    As for Bee’s teachings to Naruto, o would even go as far to say that Bee thought Naruto, power related, even more then the J Man did. Jiraiya was a great sensei for teaching Naruto about life and what’s really important but skill wise all he thought Naruto was the summoning technique and Rassengan, other than that not much else. But Bee thought Naruto about how to make peace with his “Dark Side”, he also not only show Naruto how to take control of the Kyuubi’s chakra, he fought alongside him and also shown Naruto how to control that power and make it his own.

    To see Bee die will be a very sad scenario, seeing as most of the less important people that should have died actually survived it would be unfair to have Bee killed when he’s one of the strongest shinobi out there.

  198. @Eugen

    I don’t think stereotypes are necessary to prove a point.

    In any case, Jiraiya is just as responsible for Naruto learning to control the Kyuubi as Bee is, in a sense. Remember, Jiraiya already started that training with Naruto years before and although they didn’t succeed at the time, it was Jiraiya who instilled the values Naruto needed to overcome these kinds of challenges in the future.

    It was also Jiraiya who left him the key to his seal, even though he never knew the details of Minato’s and Kushina’s wishes.

    Still, it is highly possible that Bee may die and that the Juubi will be resurected prematurely. I say the latter because in a way, Madara already has some of the Kyuubi’s chakra.

  199. The reason I think Killa’ Bee is gone die is because I asked myself the question “Who did Naruto consider his teachers (sensies, mentors etc.)?” If he considered Jirayia, Kakashi, his father and Killer Bee his mentors, then I use rationalization into thinking Bee is going to die. The reason I think so is because of the fact that all of Narutos’ teachers have died at some point during Naruto’s life time (Even Minato, no matter how little he was with Naruto: There is no arguing that Kakashi didn’t die, he did and was brought back to life, but for the sake of this argument that still counts as a death to me.)

    So, another question, how is Naruto going to beat either Madara or Sasuke? What do you guys think he needs to beat them?

  200. Awe all, WRA gets busy on a weekend O_O

    @ Gavin – I am just replying to your initial statement.

    1) I never said that the Raikage was 100% correct in his actions but in this war they are fighting as a union if each Village had to look out for its own interests then Gaara’s Speech would be moot, then those Shinobi that hated each other would full well have a right to not trust each other. Raikage was the chosen leader, his Village has produced 0 Akatsuki while this entire war is basically to eliminate the Leafs Missing Ninja, so in judgement and ruling I will give him better then Tsunade and Naruto.

    2) Maybe we miss interpreting it, but are you really not reading the symbolism in this chapter, I mean it was like a Holy Trinity back there with the 2 Sun’s, also the part I don’t make mistakes because, that is an arrogance, I will win this war before even entering it, that is arrogance. I know he may be able to do it, but if that is the case DO IT!! Don’t blabber about it, and waste time and energy, in the time Naruto spoke to Raikage maybe 3 people would of died, if he could get past first time like he did in this chapter why not do it?

    “I doubt that this one can come to any sort of conclusion – though I suspect this is a losing argument too, due to most people on here (I am assuming here a bit) liking Naruto’s ideals and his personality.”

    You are basically saying by popular demand you are wrong correct? But in truth that is not true. You know Hitler rose to power by a very similar ideology, more people believed in him then diplomatic means, so I guess he was right 😛 or racism was allowed around the world because more people believed it right then wrong… Lets not do by popular demand

    I will agree however that this has become a moot point, as u interpret the manga and the way I do is completely different as we are both in our rights to be, I respect you idea that Naruto is right but in my eyes it will never make it right. I know that.

    If you can tell me how Naruto will achieve peace and while Kisu is trolling, answer his economic, and governing questions then I will be happy but in the end no one that argues for Naruto gives a answer just, “He will do something”

    Which is not enough for me 😛 to be honest

  201. @ Redbarron – Isn’t telling Kisu to stop arguing while arguing a little how you say, hypocritical? No offense but when a chapter comes out each person is intitled to there opinion and if you feel its wrong and want to debate it, then they have the right to act back, Kisu does troll sometimes but I don’t see it as a troll that just acts to annoy, these are his views and his opinions because they constantly differ doesn’t mean he is wrong to view them, also the points made (by both sides) are valid. You must see merit in some of the things said or just laugh at it if you feel its rediculas that is all….

    but honestly guys I think we been side tracked too much lately I mean did you see how Kakashi useused Kyumi to teleport Naruto out the way, dude this Rampage is epic

  202. @Pein0Avenue

    “I will win this war before even entering it, that is arrogance. I know he may be able to do it, but if that is the case DO IT!! Don’t blabber about it, and waste time and energy, in the time Naruto spoke to Raikage maybe 3 people would of died, if he could get past first time like he did in this chapter why not do it?”

    Lol! What?

    Naruto is trying to just “do it” and others are just trying to stop him, which is the only thing slowing him down right now. He is trying to rush into the war as quickly as possible to contribute in any way he can and yet now, somehow, you say he is trying to waste time?

    A few comments ago, you were accusing Naruto of rushing into things too fast. Now it’s like you’re accusing him of doing the exact opposite – not rushing enough and wasting time talking.

    I really don’t get that.

    “You are basically saying by popular demand you are wrong correct? But in truth that is not true. You know Hitler rose to power by a very similar ideology, more people believed in him then diplomatic means, so I guess he was right 😛 or racism was allowed around the world because more people believed it right then wrong… Lets not do by popular demand.”

    You are correct in this statement. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and majority beliefs do not necessary make something true or false. It just means more people share a certain perception than others, but it is still their perception.

    The point of a debate is as much to share our ideas as it is to challenge someone else’s, but you can’t prove an opinion about something as abstract as this right or wrong. It’s just interesting to debate about it, that’s all. I think too many people may be taking it too seriously? Lol…

    Now, on with our debate. 😛

    “If you can tell me how Naruto will achieve peace and while Kisu is trolling, answer his economic, and governing questions then I will be happy but in the end no one that argues for Naruto gives a answer just, “He will do something””

    As i said before, just because you don’t know the answer, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one. It just means you are unaware of it.

    Perhaps you should give things a bit more time and see how they turn out before you consider a character with such a finite resolution. If everything was already cut and dry, with all the mysteries of the Narutoverse revealed, then there would be no interest in reading what will happen anymore. So, enjoy the mystery and see how things unfold.

    Even Kisu said he’s waiting to see Naruto’s answer. Lol. Perhaps he just has to convince you like he convinces all other non-believers. 😛

    Which actually brings up a good point… one that will be my last point for now. The way the blog is split on Naruto’s actions right now is pretty much how the characters in the manga are split themselves. Those who are against Naruto’s ideals on the blog are like the Raikage, Gaara and all the other characters who thought Naruto should be hidden away.

    Those who support Naruto’s ideals are like Tsunade, Bee and the Tsuchikage (He originally supported using the Jinchuuriki in battle to help win the war), and they represent the other side of the coin.

    If nothing else, this does show that Kishi pretty much nailed it in terms of those two sides, representing those two ideals. It means he thought about it and he has already considered how people in real life might interpret Naruto’s actions and how they would react. You could say he predicted your reaction as well Pein. Maybe he’s not as dense or shallow as some people are making him out to be. 😛

    At the end of the day, neither side is wrong, as I mentioned before. It is simply a case of your beliefs, which will determine which side you support. But both have valid reasoning to support their ideals.

  203. @ Tenrai – All I was meaning at that first juncture is, if I look at it from Naruto’s point of view, if you gonna rush in head first do it with all your might, he wants to save people but he held back against the Raikage, that is what I don’t understand, if Naruto met the Raikage the first time and said cheers immediately I would be more confident in him, but at the moment I see Naruto as driving so fast to try make it through before the light turns red but stops in the intersection. Either you in or you out no inbetween, decisions need to be made and Naruto decided to get hit around and use up more power and give Madara more time. cause lets not forget Naruto can never be wrong or make mistakes now… lolololol.

    @ the Debate section – you are correct in any situation u have 2 sides if not many more. We cannot really argue as Kishi writing, cause if he wants to he can make a Hawk appear out Sasuke’s butt 😛

    I think the problem is people are trying to prove their beliefs are right in Naruto and me and Kisu and wiseman want to show that Raikage and those opposed to Naruto aren’t the devil for not following along that even though an opinion differs from the main character it doesn’t mean its wrong @_@

  204. “but honestly guys I think we been side tracked too much lately I mean did you see how Kakashi useused Kyumi to teleport Naruto out the way, dude this Rampage is epic”

    You Made my Day 😀

  205. “So, another question, how is Naruto going to beat either Madara or Sasuke? What do you guys think he needs to beat them?”

    A heavy dose of Plot No Jutsu.

  206. @ Kisu – hahahahaha, as the story goes now, I think it will be plot no jutsu with a whole lot of speech no jutsu all coming together to make a new almighty jutsu… but then again Naruto can’t make a mistake so basically how can Sasuke and Madara win @_@ I mean technically it should be a Flawless Victory for Naruto… he can’t be wrong and won’t make a mistake @_@

    *tries to not be sarcastic*

  207. @Pein0Avenue

    “Either you in or you out no inbetween, decisions need to be made and Naruto decided to get hit around and use up more power and give Madara more time. cause lets not forget Naruto can never be wrong or make mistakes now… lolololol.”

    Don’t you mean “trolololol”?

    Lol. I am just joking. But seriously, Naruto did try to get past the raikage repeatedly. It’s not like he waited for a pep talk and even during Bee’s pep talk, he tried to use the distraction to escape again. Obviously the Raikage was just faster than he originally thought, but I doubt he intentianally let the Raikage knock him around just for the hell of it.

    If it was that easy for Naruto to beat the raikage from the start, then I would be facepalming, because then it means the Kage have become a joke again, which, to me, wouldn’t be pleasant at all.

    “I think the problem is people are trying to prove their beliefs are right in Naruto and me and Kisu and wiseman want to show that Raikage and those opposed to Naruto aren’t the devil for not following along that even though an opinion differs from the main character it doesn’t mean its wrong”

    I never said their or your opinion about whether Naruto should join the war or not was wrong. In fact, from the start of this debate, I’ve always said that neither side is “wrong” and both have valid reasons for believing what they do and perfectly reasonable logic to back it up. I also said that the only diffirentiation between which side people choose, will be based on their own individual morals or feelings.

    The only thing I was debating against was the deformation of Naruto’s character based on his ultimately noble actions, when we see so many other characters make similar rash decisions and they are left squeaky clean and free from admonishment. I was also showing how Naruto’s actions are also as justifiable as the Raikage’s or anyone else’s and that, although you may not agree with him, it doesn’t suddenly make him a monster just because – as you said yourself – his beliefs differ from what you think is right.

    “but then again Naruto can’t make a mistake so basically how can Sasuke and Madara win @_@ I mean technically it should be a Flawless Victory for Naruto… he can’t be wrong and won’t make a mistake @_@

    *tries to not be sarcastic*”

    Now this above statement is something that does irritate me a bit, because I feel it is an unfair jab based on nothing but your own feelings of dissatisfaction. Basically, it just sounds like you are just trolling now. <_<

  208. @Tenrai, darn it man! I told you to stop hugging trees. Not even Captain Planet hugs as many trees as you do >_<

  209. @Kisu

    Lol. Someone has to balance the equation. You are one the one side, I am on the other. 😛

    Besides, I eat people all the time. That counts for something, doesn’t it?

  210. To be fair first Naruto kicks your ass then he talks to you.

  211. Kanton!!!!!!! Where the hell have you been!?!?!?

    *Eats Kantonkage* T____T

  212. “Don’t you mean “trolololol”?”
    bahahahahaaaaaa that was awesome. i literally laughed out loud.

    *saves kanton from the jaws of death*
    O_o tenrai what are you thinking…..*dabbs A1 sauce on kanton*

    there ya go! dig in! 😀

  213. Hopefully the next chapter will offer us a more docile debate subject, because this last week has sure been WRA to the max. And to tell you guys the truth, with the goods and bads, these was a entertaining time of rebirth for WRA. I’m glad we all came back to post on the blog and is going so well.

    I wonder what will happen next issue, will we still follow Naruto in his sprint to the battlefield with Bee or will we see Sasuke’s rebirth in the perfection that is the Uchiha clan.
    I sure hope Sasuke will make a comeback and start causing some chaos, emo as he is I sure miss his way of smart and entertaining fighting, plus u get double the emoness now that he’s got the EMS.

    The one thing I don’t want to see is the clash show’ed in the last OVA were we only see Naruto (Sage Mode) versus Sasuke’s normal sharingan.
    When these two clash I want to see full Sage Mode Kyuubi Mode Hiraishin Naruto vs all out Susano’o Amaterasu, Kirin EMS Sasuke, no more beating around the bush and having Naruto taking it easy on Sasuke just to prove a point. I really wonder if Naruto as a story has any future after these arc, will the story end or will we get another skip, hopefully it’s the later of the two.

    Lol at kakashi’s rampage, that man sure can make these manga worth wile, I mean he brought the Sage of six paths back to life and killed him just to prove he’s better looking with a mask on than any narutoverse character ever.

  214. @pein0avenue: I’ll try and address what you said briefly.

    “1) I never said that the Raikage was 100% correct in his actions but in this war they are fighting as a union if each Village had to look out for its own interests then Gaara’s Speech would be moot, then those Shinobi that hated each other would full well have a right to not trust each other.”

    I disagree. They had no right to not trust each other.

    “Raikage was the chosen leader, his Village has produced 0 Akatsuki while this entire war is basically to eliminate the Leafs Missing Ninja, so in judgement and ruling I will give him better then Tsunade and Naruto.”

    Sure, but they made an alliance. Naruto and Tsunade themselves were upstanding citizens and not responsible for missing nin.

    “2) Maybe we miss interpreting it, but are you really not reading the symbolism in this chapter, I mean it was like a Holy Trinity back there with the 2 Sun’s, also the part I don’t make mistakes because, that is an arrogance, I will win this war before even entering it, that is arrogance. I know he may be able to do it, but if that is the case DO IT!! Don’t blabber about it, and waste time and energy, in the time Naruto spoke to Raikage maybe 3 people would of died, if he could get past first time like he did in this chapter why not do it?”

    I agree with Tenrai. And you’re way off. This does have a lot of symbolism. It is a Jesus story pretty much, like many hero stories are. It’s like a coach saying ‘our team doesn’t make mistakes’. It’s not arrogant, it is a confidence builder.

    “You are basically saying by popular demand you are wrong correct?”

    Let me tell you a secret. I’m not Hitler. Also, even though you are partially correct about the Nazis, you failed to see my point. I simply don’t think you have a popular argument. I suggested a vote for this earlier. (Like a poll.) It is something we do in america. POPULAR VOTE. It doesn’t tell us who is right. But it will tell us how many people agree in a nice little package.

    You’re right, a decision doesn’t need to be made. A vote isn’t needed. It would just be fun and might bring a nice conclusion to the debate.

    For one of your last questions: I think Naruto will achieve peace by putting words to his process. We already know that he fights, but rarely kills. We know that he tends to change people’s minds. We know that he believes that he gains strength by the love and support of others ‘recognizing him’. So I guess it will be something like reiterating the main theme’s of the story. Peace can be achieved if people believe it can happen. Peace can be achieved if people believe in each other and love one another. Peace can be achieved with hard work, and the will to succeed. Peace can be achieved with the will to change people and reform people without killing them.

    It sounds to me like the Naruto’s answer is in the merge between might and love. It is a major theme in the manga. Love is great, but without ‘might’ you are a tree hugger without enough power to succeed in pursuing your beliefs. With only power, you can never understand one another and will continue fighting for power for its own sake. Only with both in balance, can you achieve peace. This is why Naruto must team back up with Sasuke to achieve that balance.

  215. I think I had some words in my last post that aren’t kosher. Maybe a moderator can let me know if I need to make a cleaner post.

  216. Until that happens, I’ll post what I think Naruto’s answer is.

    I think Naruto will achieve peace by putting words to his process. We already know that he fights, but rarely kills. We know that he tends to change people’s minds. We know that he believes that he gains strength by the love and support of others ‘recognizing him’. So I guess it will be something like, reiterating the main theme’s of the story. Peace can be achieved if people believe it can happen. Peace can be achieved if people believe in each other and love one another. Peace can be achieved with hard work, and the will to succeed. Peace can be achieved with the will to change people and reform people without killing them.

    It sounds to me like the Naruto’s answer is in the merge between might and love. It is a major theme in the manga. Love is great, but without ‘might’ you are a tree hugger without enough power to succeed in pursuing your beliefs. With only power, you can never understand one another and will continue fighting for power for its own sake. Only with both in balance, can you achieve peace. This is why Naruto must team back up with Sasuke to achieve that balance.

  217. ok… i’m tired of reading about Naruto changing his destiny… Kishimoto is stupid for having Naruto tell Neji he is changing his Destiny… NEJI WAS RIGHT, Destiny is already decided… Whatever naruto does in the future, saving the world or dying with Sasuke, that is his destiny, his future is destiny, that is basically what future is… just as mewtwo said in the pokemon movie “This cannot be my destiny” he was saying that cannot be his future… he didnt say he was going to change his future because he doesnt know what it is so you cant change destiny if you dont know what it is first… same as with time traveling, you can’t change the past if you build a time machine because you were destined to build and use it to go back in time and either do nothing or cause a major event to happen…

  218. Alright, so we all know this is a war and it’s supposed to be a terrible burden for everyone, but no major characters have actually died yet.

    Obviously, kishi can’t just throw away characters like there’s no tomorrow, so he’ll have to decide very carefully who will die and why, because in my opinion, there has to be a good reason for killing a major key character and it should in some way benefit development in the story.

    So, here’s where I am getting to. If Kishi does kill off any main characters, who do you think they will be and why? Also, it would be interesting to hear from everyone which characters they don’t want to see die and which ones they wouldn’t mind saying goodbye to.

    This is just for interest’s sake and maybe it will help get away from this moral debate. Lol.

  219. @Josiah Dumisani Eaves – You have missed the entire point of the story of Naruto… There will always be things that are out of our control, that we can’t change. It’s not the things you can’t change that define destiny, it’s how you respond to them. What most people call ‘Destiny’ is nothing more than the cumulative consequences of the choices we make in life.

    To apply this to the Naruto, It’s the choices he has made through out the story that have ultimately defined his character and the path he has taken. You could argue that he is destined to fight Madara, but that is only because he chose to do so. If he was so inclined he could have stayed and let the war play out without trying to enter the fray. Once again this was his choice, and not something imposed upon him by some mysterious force.

    Similarly I could choose to get up early tomorrow, or I could choose to sleep in late. The consequences being that if I get up early I could get more done, but get less rest, or I could sleep in late and get more rest, but accomplish less. The point is that it’s not set in stone, it’s a choice I can make.

    Naruto told Neji that he could change his destiny, and he told him how too. Simply by changing the way he responds to the things he can’t change, and by doing his best to positively affect the outcomes of the things he could change. Neji then consciously chose to heed his words.

    Certainly we don’t know what the future holds for us, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have a very real impact on the outcome. In the end people who claim that ‘Destiny’ is something that can’t be changed are often times those who also refuse to take responsibility for their actions and the effects they have on those around them.

  220. @ Tenrai – hahaha, yeah was more of a trolololol moment 😛

    but at what I meant, Raikage went full power, lightning speed and Naruto dodged it like his dad did, that shows me that either Naruto was holding back, or the he need the Raikage to go full speed to get around him. I am not sure where that leave him @_@ I think already we know the Kage’s are strong but not really the strongest in the villages like Konoha.

    I was also not saying you where wrong either, I was just trying to say just because we disagree with a character that we hate the character itself. Pain is my favorite character does that mean I think his actions are right, no I just liked the character and the role he played, same can be said for Naruto, I don’t like what he is doing and the way his character has changed since part one but then again I feel the same way about Sasuke, though I still think without them the manga would be terrible, I like their characters but I don’t agree with their actions that is all 🙂

    *Takes the tree Tenrai hugging and starts a camp fire, pulls out Guitar and sings kumbiya….*

    @ Gavin – To be honest, I think Naruto will sacrifice himself for peace, I know a lot of Naruto fans want to see him become Hokage, but think about it, in some way Naruto has affected almost all the leaders of the Villages, and gained respect from their higher ups. I think Naruto will bring an end to the war by giving up all his dreams of becoming hokage etc to save his friends.

    If that does happen it could always end up he survives and becomes like the sage but I doubt it… I am not sure Kishi is think economic and social unrest etc, he wants to bring around the moral peace after the war…

    My theory on Tobi is, he is infact Obito, and he made this war to unit the Shinobi of the world and once defeated by Naruto and his plan brought forward he will die smiling cause he never really wanted to win the war just give everyone a common enemy and make everyone comrades lol @_@

  221. @ Josiah Dumisani Eaves – Man that is a long name @_@ do mind if I call you Eaves, alright cool.

    I agree, I was actually watching the Chunin exams not too long ago, when Naruto was an outcast orphan that didn’t know his parents. He was never given a chance, basically everyone thought he would just simply loose to Neji, and it was only his guts and determination that made him win. Naruto in a sense hasn’t really changed he still is that kid but now we know.

    He is related to the 4th Hokage so Neji saying one is born to be Hokage technically we didn’t know it but Naruto was, so in a sense he had a good chance to be Hokage and was “destined” to be.

    They said he couldn’t win cause there was nothing special about him, no special blood line etc, but now we know he has one of the rarest and greatest bloodlines in the Naruto universe, giving him vitality and strength, plus a special chakra, plus the Kyuubi.

    In the end, Naruto didn’t know his destiny then and believed it to be that of a looser but he found that he had special talents later and a better destiny then he was believed to have.

    but all this doesn’t mean that Naruto still worked hard to get where he is now, like Neji, he also trained hard and learned techniques by himself, same with Sasuke, no one works as hard as Lee though 😛 he really the only one left that been screwed over by destiny.

  222. @iamnotreallyher – sorry didnt see ur post basically all true

  223. @Pein0Avenue

    “My theory on Tobi is, he is infact Obito, and he made this war to unit the Shinobi of the world and once defeated by Naruto and his plan brought forward he will die smiling cause he never really wanted to win the war just give everyone a common enemy and make everyone comrades lol @_@”

    I actually thought about that as well and, to be honest, it is definitely a possibility. It does seem a bit strange for Tobi to tell everyone his master plan and give away all his secrets, especially we we consider that such an action that would only give his enemies a much better chance to counter it. So, it is possible that he is playing the role of a villain in order to get everyone to unite against him. If all the hatred is focused on him, then all that is left will be for him to die with all that hatred.

    *This sounds like another anime I watched with that very same ending, which I shall not name.*

    The only problem with that theory is that it still doesn’t explain a lot of Tobi’s actions, such as his desire to control Sasuke. If he wants to be the focus point for the world to make an enemy of him, then why does he need Sasuke when he already has so much power as it is? There’s also a question of why he is trying so hard to win this war if he really just wants to lose it? He talks to himself alone (with no-one else around) about how he cannot afford to lose, so that suggests that he has no intention of letting the alliance win at all.

    Still, it would be quite a twist if it did happen.

  224. @Tenrai, Bee’s basically dead already. Kishi doesn’t have the cojones to kill any of the kids off, and Kakashi already died once, so keep expecting just fodder deaths.

    “just as mewtwo said”

    D-did you just make a Pokemon reference? Pickles will not be pleased.

    @iamnotreallythere, he is kinda right when you think about it. I’ve said it many times above why this is true. Destiny is your future and Neji was saying it can’t be changed, now Naruto’s embracing his destiny with open arms and calling himself a savior… Neji is always right.

    @Gavin lolz no worries dude. Debates happen, tensions rise, nothing to worry about.

    @your theory of what Naruto’s answer will be, knowing how corny and cheesy this story has become I can see that happening even though the people in the Naruniverse are more violent than us and logic dictates that the only way to make any sort of peace in a world like that would be Mutually Assured Destruction (i.e. Nagato’s plan). But eh, lets say Naruto does pull it off, what happens when he dies?

    *trollface*

  225. @ Tenrai Senshi –

    I know it is a far fetched theory, maybe like Pain, Tobi believes he needs to destroy a large portion of the military power of the nations to make it even and removing the Tailed Beasts helps balance without any nation having more power… Sasuke could be his future plan to remove the last Beasts, but also he is the last Uchiha maybe he also believes that he needs to eliminate his heritage of anger and hatred by putting Sasuke in a battle with Naruto, and also using him to eliminate the other power hungry person Danzou. and him talking to himself is weird but u know Zetsu is the perfect spy and could be anywhere at any time.

    I think Tobi has a plan, that if he wins he makes everyone his slave and achieves peace, and if he looses to Naruto and the world had united to stop him it would also achieve peace… I am not sure how to explain the attack on Konoha though… It was just something I was thinking of but probably won’t happen that way…

  226. @kisuzachi

    Actually, I’m not particularly sure why you believe Naruto’s world is more violent than ours. I would say that there are societies in our world which show far more severe forms of violence and bloodshed than anything Naruto has shown so far. Children being used in war and being taught to kill has been a reality in our world since the earliest forms of recorded history. So has torture, killing for sport and fun and all other manners of violence. Is there any particular factor that you have based your claim on that I am not considering, perhaps?

    As for the idea of mutually assured destruction, well, it hasn’t prevented any wars in our world despite the invention of the atomic bomb, so why would it prevent any wars in a world that is apparently “more violent” than ours? (As you put it.) You just like Nagato, that’s all. Lol. <_<

    Let's face it. Peace in real life is a very unrealistic goal when you consider the nature of human beings, so it doesn't matter if you try to achieve it through fear, death, MAD, or through noble ideals. People will always find a reason to squabble or to hate each other. They actually make it look too easy most of the time.

    But at the end of the day, this is a manga and it isn't the real world, so things that are near impossible (or actually impossible) in real life, can occur in a manga. The whole point of media such as manga or anime (in most cases) is to serve as escapism from the real world, not to replicate it perfectly. That's why you can bring back a population of a few billion dead people with a dragonball, thus making death inconsequential. Lol. 😛

  227. @kisuzachi – so what your saying is our future is already decided and there is nothing we can do to change it? So the sandwich I make today is already made, it’s toppings already decided? How can something not be changed that hasn’t happened yet?

    In my humble opinion only the past is immutable, the future is what we make of it. Also if Neji is always right, that means his outlook on life has to be right, and since he now follows the path of the Narutoism… =P

  228. @ iamnotreallyhere – I am not sure one can change their path, choice is an illusion one creates, lets put it this way,

    Why are you making the sandwich, cause you are hungry, why are you hungry, because your body needs the sustenance, thus this cycle is destined to happen, the topping you choose, will vary on your personal taste and what is available, if you don’t like fish you not gonna put it on your sandwich… In studies they find that food prefference is usually from memory, even from child birth your mind creates a good/bad memory of tastes, also genetics play a role, so genetics is something you can’t change, and memory from child birth is usually externally influenced onto you…. So those three things, availability is a consequence of previous actions too… So in a sense you may not call it destiny.

    But look at it like you have a long line of Domino’s all in a line to create a massive reaction, Do you blame the last domino falling on the one before it or the first one, since either was not there it would not have fallen. We are all at a point in a domino field, we are pushed from a previous action and that then gains a new reaction and so we go on forgetting the primary cause and believing each choice we make is our own when infact events in our life has led us to this point ….

    That is how I see it @_@

  229. so free will doesnt exist because the last choice we made was forced upon us by the choice before that and so on etc..? no i dont think that’s how it works.

  230. @Pein

    I am afraid that using dominoes as an analogy to describe destiny and the choices we make in life, is not a very good comparison.

    Why? Because a single line of dominoes would suggest that there is one one choice in life, and that there is only one set of events that can occur following that choice. You can’t even really call it a choice, so much as just a predetermined path that has no deviations whatsoever.

    Real life is not in any way like this. You may make a sandwich because you are hungry, but you can also choose to have a salad instead. Choosing the salad over the sandwich may result in food poisoning because of ingrediets that have gone off and you may get sick which will change the course of how your day, or even week, progresses. You may choose to run a red light at a robot, or you may choose to stop. One might cause an accident that will cause you to end up paralyzed for the rest of your life.

    These factors suggest that, should we compare our lives to a stack of dominoes, that the path of those dominoes splits multiple times and that those paths also split multiple times to a point of reaching an infinite amount of different paths that the dominoes might travel.

    Each time we reach a split in that road, we choose one path or another and each time we do, we change the course of our lives in some way we often can’t percieve, sometimes insignificantly and sometimes drastically. You can’t just chalk that up to the consequences of a predetermined set of circumstances leading up to that point, because even then, you can still choose how to react to those circumstances no matter what they are.

    I believe we choose our paths and ultimately, our destinies are of our own making. Now, you can choose whether or not you want to reply to that. 😛

  231. “Actually, I’m not particularly sure why you believe Naruto’s world is more violent than ours”

    4 world wars in under 90 years.

    @iamnotreallythere, I don’t believe in destiny, but it seems Part 2 Naruto does.

  232. @kisuzachi: I actually had a lot of stuff written up. But I was also addressing this quote.

    “You are basically saying by popular demand you are wrong correct? But in truth that is not true. You know Hitler rose to power by a very similar ideology, more people believed in him then diplomatic means, so I guess he was right or racism was allowed around the world because more people believed it right then wrong… Lets not do by popular demand.”

    @pein0avenue: I expressed just how bad it is to say this kind of thing. I either got moderated or there was a bug with logging in and posting with the website. I hope you realize how wrong you are. All I meant to say is that we can take these debates to a vote in the polls. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

  233. I think I’m being moderated because of something someone else said? Not sure. I’m not saying anything that anyone else hasn’t said.

    All of the other answers for “Naruto’s answer for peace” are pretty good.

  234. @Gavin

    I found your comments in the spam folder. I’m not sure why they would have been considered spam, but it might be because you’re logging in from a phone or unknown device?

    In any case, I approved them so they should show up in the comments now. I’ll keep an eye out in case any more happen to land up there.

  235. It seems my clone has been eaten again and I was going to not make something explode but I have no choice. it’s something like this (minus the clothes just skip to 00:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9MAzCw7kj0

    Anyway, my prefer method is for Naruto is kill Emo Patrol violently via Rasenshuriken but sadly that won’t happen.

  236. @iamnotreallyhere
    Dude… did i say anything about what naruto will do in the future? NO, I said whatever he does in the future it was already destined for him to do that… there is no change to destiny because Destiny is the future and what you do now will be your future. People think it is a choice they make, but fate is already laid for them… such as buying the new assassins creed or Call of Duty, you think you chose call of duty but it was already predetermined that you were going to buy it and your fate is you’re going to wind up playing a stupid game XD (I slid that in) LOL… SN: COD isnt stupid… just all the money their putting into it instead of working on TRUE CRIME!!!… but yea, Neji’s theory is real. Naruto was destined to beat Neji, Neji just didn’t know it. Naruto and Sasuke were bound to fight at the valley of the end they just didn’t know it… you DON’T know your destiny so how can you change what you don’t know??? You can’t change your destiny…

  237. I thought Naruto couldn’t stay in Kyubi mode for a long time? How is he going to befriend the Kyuubi? Will Naruto do something to gain it’s trust? Will their friendship be too late? (meaning, once they become friends they get captured and the kyuubi gets extracted.) Tons of questions

  238. @Josiah D. Eaves – Your circular logic is circular and therefore illogical. Here is your argument in a nutshell. Naruto does things only because he was destined to do them therefore he does only the things he is destined to do. Your argument is flawed because it is wholly reliant on it’s own proposition to prove itself. This is also a sweeping generalization as it assumes that because somethings may be controlled by destiny that all things are controlled by destiny.

    You also say our future is our destiny and since we can’t change our future we can’t change our destiny. This argument is full of logical fallacies showing signs of affirming the consequent, as well as being a complete non sequitur.

    That being said, Welcome to the Madhouse that is WeAreAwesomeness =]

    @pein0avenue – a lot of the things you mentioned there are things out of our control. We may not be able to change them, but we can choose to respond to them differently. Lets take the sandwich example a step further, even if I don’t like fish, if I need the extra protean in my diet then I have a choice to make, eat the protean rich fish or something with less protean. There is still a measure of choice there, it’s not preordained by anything.

    @kisuzachi – If you thought you had the power to craft your own destiny then would you not have faith in your own craftsmanship?

  239. When is Naruto going to learn about his clan? I want to see some crazy sealing techniques being used by Naruto and what happened to the clan. Is Kabuto an Uzumaki too?? His name is strikingly similar to Naruto’s. I’m getting this hypothesis because of his mysterious past. His hair could be a result of the mother being wedded to a person with gray hair (Naruto had blonde hair because of his father, so I’m using the same equation with Kabuto)

  240. @Josiah

    You seem to have some pretty firm beliefs for something you ultimately cannot prove to be true. So basically, you’ve given us a very finite and simplified conclusion about how destiny works, but you haven’t given us an explanation as to why you believe it works that way or how. Basically, you believe for the sake of believing and, to be honest, no-one is going to take that kind of rational seriously in a debate.

    A debate requires logic and wit or the use of evidence or informational references to back up one’s words, not simply someone saying “it’s this way because I say it is.” You have yet to present anything of the sort.

    But in any case, if you believe in destiny so firmly, then that is fine and I won’t try to change your beliefs, because that is something that will be personal for you, and that is fine. However, in the same breath, if you want to bring the topic up in a debate where you try to convince others of those beliefs, you’re going to need more than just a simple conclusion of your own making, based on little else for any of us to work with. Also, expect resistance, because that is what debating is about.

  241. To me, the belief in the notion of destiny is a sign of weakness; a way of refusing accountability for your actions or circumstances. While it is true that there are a myriad of external forces beyond your control that shape your present and even your future, ultimately it is you who decides what direction that future will go.

    Give a master archer a sharpened twig and a novice a perfectly crafted arrow. The truly great among us will not focus on the shortcomings of the arrow, but will recognize that both archers have the capacity to hit their respective targets and that this capacity is determined by how well each archer is able to accommodate for the circumstances they’ve been dealt. So it is with destiny.

  242. @ Gavin – Sorry for the trouble with the reply, though I feel this is a moot point I do want to clear a few things….

    “I disagree. They had no right to not trust each other.”

    I am confused so YOU state Konoha should while in the alliance look after its own interest but the other Villages have no right to, those two shinobi where enemies and each probably killed or was involved in the killing of the others loved ones, its like someone kills your wife and family and the USA says now you must be friends, they had a right to not like each other but the greater good was for them to work together and win the war.

    “Sure, but they made an alliance. Naruto and Tsunade themselves were upstanding citizens and not responsible for missing nin.”

    As leader of a Village Tsunade is in a sense responsible, if not for all at least for Sasuke. Also What exactly has Naruto been doing? (before the current chapter) He was refusing to take orders and escaped where he was supposed to be, kinda like Sasuke left the Village for his own goals, Naruto disobeys orders but I will give it to him he thinks he doing it for the good and not for “totally” selfish reasons.

    “I agree with Tenrai. And you’re way off. This does have a lot of symbolism. It is a Jesus story pretty much, like many hero stories are. It’s like a coach saying ‘our team doesn’t make mistakes’. It’s not arrogant, it is a confidence builder.”

    In your analogy its doesn’t fit since the Couch will say they don’t make mistakes, but not the team, and when a player fumbles the ball, or is struck out, or a goal is scored against them, then what? Then the opposition can hon in on that and mock them for making a mistake, no person or thing is perfect, that is all I am saying confidence or not one needs to do there best always and if you fail you learn and grow.

    I never called you Hitler, all I was saying is putting up a poll and saying, “We right cause there more of us” doesn’t validate a point, I was simple using examples in history when that didn’t work. Technically you said “For the second topic, I doubt that this one can come to any sort of conclusion – though I suspect this is a losing argument too, due to most people on here (I am assuming here a bit) liking Naruto’s ideals and his personality.” there was no mention of poll to see a census, I read the “loose” and saw it as u validating a point by popularity.

    Democracy is the best form of government there is, but just cause the democrats win doesn’t mean the republicans are wrong, cause if that was the case once the “right”

    @_@ sorry if I offend you though, I know I do sometimes not think things through the when I say them, like if I refer to an idea, or topic in a debate I do not say you are that person, like wise if you say I am wrong, you saying my opinion is wrong to you so I don’t really take offense to it.

    If a poll is needed, it will be interesting but in the end even if its 99% in my favor I won’t take that as a victory, since in opinions and ideals there is no wrong or right merely just perception

  243. @ Tenrai – I believe we choose our paths and ultimately, our destinies are of our own making. Now, you can choose whether or not you want to reply to that. 😛

    I do choose to reply, yet I am sure you knew that answer already 😛

    I think you still thinking of the the current domino and not the first one… We are all in a stuck to this course, if you raise a child teaching them that every Red is actually Blue, their understanding and reality of that colour revolves around that, I am not saying we don’t have choices, but in each of those senario’s where you say we could choose, all the other paths disappear as u choose one, what I am saying who is to say in some way we haven’t already chosen a future outcome from a previous action which was infact a choice, in the end life is only truly lived in the present and as we move forward in it, it becomes the past a future we believe we can choose is irrelevant to the future we are given, like I said I don’t think you call it destiny but we all as equals have the same path and final destination of Death no choice we make in life can change the beginning and end of it, thus we are in a forward line with a destined end 😛

  244. Comment Marker #1

  245. Holy walls of text Batman!

  246. @pein0avenue

    Death may be a shared destination for all of us, but even that notion is subject to individual beliefs. Some people believe in life after death and that your subsequent afterlife is even based on your choices in life. Even that depicts a choice of multiple paths as opposed to a finite and single end result. 😛

    Even if death itself is finite as you are suggesting, the choices we make in life are not and those choices will still have an affect on the world even long after we are gone. You get to choose what kind of heritage you leave behind and that choice in itself, has implications that exist after death. That means even death is not as final as you make it out to be.

    In any case, you choose an argument based on circumstances forcing our lives into a specific direction, when the truth is that you can still choose how to react to those circumstances or what to believe. There is no such thing as a forced path based on a set of circumstances because there are always a million different ways to react to those circumstances.

    You can bring two children up in the exact same manner, with both living under the exact same conditions, and they can still become completely different people based on their choices. You can bring up a child to believe in a certain religion, but they might eventually grow up to become an atheist, while another child in the same circumstances decides to embrace those beliefs. How do you explain these choices being different when the circumstances are the same? They are not forced, because the idea of being forced to behave a certain way, is just an illusion in itself.

    A bully can’t blame the fact that he was bullied as a reason to bully others. To me, that is just a case of people wanting to let go of the responsibly they hold for their actions. In the same manner, if someone decides to hit me, it is my choice whether or not I will hit them back. Their action has not forced my decision one way or another, now has it? No, it has simply opened up a number of possibilities that I can CHOOSE from, such as laying a charge for assault, hitting him back, turning the other cheek, swearing at him, running away, etc, etc…

    This does not in any way indicate that we only have one path in life that is forced upon us.

  247. @ tenrai – We are not forced apon us but predetermined in a sense, we have millions of options everyday, which creates an illusion of infinite choices when once we made the choice all other options fall away, we are all given so much and thus we are created with our own limitations, a child who cannot hear is limited, but does not mean he won’t try harder because of his disability, when a child who can usually will take it for granted until maybe shown otherwise…

    All I feel is we make choices and we believe that we are in control of our world and the destiny we make, but what I see is people pushed towards having to make a decision, we all believe we have this master control, yet religion says there is a God that knows our every choice before we make it, does that give us control if your choice is known before it is made, unless we can see the future we cannot change it, men who acted good or evil where meant to do it, is it right or wrong no one can say but the human race is in a sense in a path… Choice is not contradictory to destiny, in fact it is choice that determines our destiny…

    For Example in Naruto.

    Neji said that Naruto would not beat him or become Hokage, this was because Neji tried to determine Naruto’s future, that is wrong, but as the series goes we see that Naruto was in fact not only capable of being Hokage but his destiny was to be the savior, and the hero. I am not saying choices he made didn’t influence that, but even before he was born, this destiny was put before him, it came from his father…

    I don’t think we are slaves to the things in our lives but in a sense we are all slaves to our past, weather it affects us good or bad, every human is born a certain way, its the choices in life that make us who we are but I believe those choices more often then not are made for us.

    but anyways I was destined to say that so I may be wrong, its just my perception of humans wanting to control everything around them. Again I may be wrong but only be able to tell in the future…

  248. @pein –

    There is no way to prove the concept of a predetermined destiny. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, please do so. Otherwise, yours is just an opinion that, while valid, is unverifiable and shall be regarded as such.

  249. @Pein

    “men who acted good or evil where meant to do it, is it right or wrong no one can say but the human race is in a sense in a path… Choice is not contradictory to destiny, in fact it is choice that determines our destiny…”

    No, I don’t believe that people who act evil are “meant” to do it. That is just excusing their actions and that is a concept that I cannot accept as the truth. People are responsible for their actions and they need to take responsibility.

    In any case, you said it well enough yourself. It is choice that determines our destinies, which is true, because we are the ones who create our own paths in life and decide which way we move forward. We are only slaves to our circumstances as much as we allow ourselves to be, and that too, is a choice. 😛

  250. I blame Josiah for starting this debate about destiny. <_<

    *Eats Josiah* @__@

  251. It must have been his destiny to be eaten by Tenrai Senshi ¬¬

    =P

  252. Spoilers are out:

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/71056-Naruto-545-Spoiler-Pics-and-Summaries

    So far, it looks and sounds like this will be an epic chapter. I am looking forward to it. @__@

  253. spoiler alert

    spoiler is cool, especially mini frs done on finger with So6p cloak mini hands
    awesomnes will spread again 😀

  254. And… the new chapter is out. O_o

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/545

    It seems Mangareader gets them out quite a bit faster than Mangastream. Hmmm… Now to read. ^ ^

  255. All I can say is…

    EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XD

  256. All I can say is, What more can you want or expect from Naruto, EPIC is a Understatement of a Understatement. AWESOMENESS to the MAXXX.

    Now to read all your big ass posts, so happy new members are joining us at WRA, welcome all and stay away from tenrai (he eats everything when he’s hungry) also Kisu and Kanton are to look out for as well.

  257. One very important aspect of this chapter was that we found out what Zetsu really is, even if we’ve seen Hashirama’s cells implanted in that zetsu flower where Yamato is now, we didn’t actually know original zetsu was the making of Hasirama himself. I’m glad Kishi offers so much info at just the right time, to bad he doesn’t do the same with Sasuke’s character.

    Anyway all that’s left is to find out the difference between black and white Zetsu.

  258. @ Darks – I did say it was my perception, of what is going on @_@ Though, it is something that cannot be proven as fact it cannot be disproven 😛

  259. @pein –

    “Though, it is something that cannot be proven as fact it cannot be disproven”

    Something that remains unproven does not need to be disproven. You put forward the premise and so it falls to you to provide the evidence that backs it up.

  260. IT’S OUT!!! AND IT’S EPIICCCC!!! OOOVVERRR 9000000000!!!
    Ok, no more caps. But still, I can barely contain myself

  261. “mini rasen-shurikin” bahahahaha that was awesome. naruto is freakin ridiculous..in a good way.

    not gonna lie though i’m confused cuz i thought making shadow clones in kyubbi mode was a bad idea…? O_o

  262. nice birthday present for it to come out so early too 😀

  263. @Dish11

    It’s your birthday? O_o

    If so, then happy birthday! *Eats the birthday cake and Dish and all the party guests* ^ ^

  264. @dish its my birth day too what a coincidence happy birthday

    the mini rasenshuriken is so cool

  265. @madararrancar

    Happy birthday to you too then. Sheesh, I wish it was my birthday. <____<

    Then again, I am not a fan of winter, so having a birthday in the middle of winter wouldn't be as fun. @___@

  266. What type of clone is White Zetsu? It totally makes sense that Madara gave cells to Orochimaru. I bet Madara manipulated Orochimaru too.

  267. Thinking about what Shikamaru’s dad said on page one… …I wonder if Naruto can already cast genjitsu but doesn’t know it yet…

    He does seem to have an awfully persuasive personality…

  268. I don’t know why, but I think the real trump card in this whole war isn’t Naruto but Kabuto. I think the whole war hinges on him. I know Naruto is the main character but Kabuto is playing really sly right now. He is helping Madara (i presume) with powerful corpses, help make White Zetsu more powerful and has that mystery box (“What’s in the Box!!!??” – Brad Pitt in Se7en). That’d make a great question! Who do you guys think is the most important person in this war? (i.e. Madara, Killer Bee, any of the Kages, Lieutants etc).

  269. @thelaughingwiseman: good point. That snake is fully oiled and ready to play his card(s). I wonder if he’s really a good guy or a bad guy…

  270. I wonder if Naruto will be as natural with So6P mode as Sasuke was with EMS.

    Makes me also wonder if Madara and team artificially induced (stole) So6P mode in themselves.

    Reason why I wonder is – Madara had some philosophical waxing about how a “natural” sharngan user is innately better than a “stolen” user (think Sasuke vs Danzo). He should be made to eat those words, and Naruto has a skill for doing that 🙂

    It would be ironic for Naruto to own Madara by being “a natural” at So6P rather than how Madara (probably) would use “stolen” So6P.

  271. @arpotu you gave me a really great idea! What if Naruto touches Madara atleast once in the fight? That might affect the First Hokages cells into reacting the same way the White Zetsu and the totem pole did. Maybe destroying them in the process and renduring Madara mortal once again.

  272. …i get the feeling there will be a newly created “Zetzu (or Madara) National Forest” after this battle… something that Konahamaru’s kids will be playing in, 20 years in the future… when these odd white spores start blowing down from the trees…

  273. I’m hoping that Naruto’s battle with Madara will have Naruto reverting back to his old pranks and tactics, trying to hide from him and get him to show himself.

  274. And happy birthday dish11, madararrancar.

  275. Happy Birthday Dish and Mad, hope i get lots of presents ;).
    Tenrai what the fuck dude it’s almost july (july=summer) is the weather in South Africa so different from Romania, I didn’t know you guys had such crazy weather.

  276. Can anyone tell me what happened after naruto threw the mini rasen shuriken at the Zutsus fusion
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/57765310/16
    on this page in the top left panel, did the rasen shuriken explode and caused that thing to turn into a tree or what.?

  277. damn, I meant HOPE YOU get lots of presents DISH and MAD. sorry, my keyboard is asking for a bungee jump without the bungee cord.

  278. Oh never mind about the panel, I get it, the Zetsu sees the shadow forming on the ground from Gamahiro drooping from the sky. But the small Rassen shuriken didn’t look like it expanded at all inside the Zetsu, strange.

  279. thank you everyone 🙂
    even you tenrai…considering you ate me.
    gah i lasted so long without becoming a snack too

  280. happy birthday dish *blows up the remains of the party with a rocket launcher*

  281. @eugen Maybe it was something he ate came back to haunt him.
    interesting chapter I’d personally would like to know some more about Mito.

  282. /thank for the word *up*

    😉

  283. @Eugen

    Crazy weather? Lol. No, I assure you it is perfectly natural weather.

    South Africa is in the southern hemisphere. That means when you guys have summer, we have winter and when you guys have winter, we have summer.

    That’s how it works. I’m sure you guys must have learned about the different hemispheres and how the seasons work in school?

  284. @ Chapter – Was Good Got to know more about Tobi and Zetsu (the white one) I think Madara cells are in Black Zetsu actually.

    I enjoy the that Naruto least showing some shows of power but against the army of White Zetsu it was expected and I have a feeling Naruto is playing directly into Madara’s hands (as they where saying this chapter)

    How did he do the Shadow Clones @_@

    Still looking forward to Pain, Sasuke EMS etc

  285. @ tenrai, thx for the geography lesson, I know about the south being closer to the sun in the summer and vice versa in the winter causing you guys to have a flipped seasons. What actually amazed me was the fact that the cold came so early now. I’ve been in johannesburg and cape town last year about this time and the weather was actually reasonable, bundle up and eat more to have that extra bit of energy in the winter 😉

    @ Chapter, boy oh boy will we get a showdown between the Kyuubi and Naruto after this sprint of his to the battlefields is over. How dose Naruto manage to feed the fox with his own chakra for so long.
    Could he be using Sage chakra to feed his body while he uses the fox’s chakra?? Just a guess, but then again I guess it would be a little stupid to feed the fox with Natural energy witch could make it even stronger than it was back 16 years ago, plus that fox stays still in that cage all day long, he’s bound to have the staying still part learned.

    Anyway Naruto was bad ass as usual but it was a little of a Sasuke move if you ask me, when both Bee and Naruto left for the battle, Naruto barely managed to form a incomplete kyuubi bomb, now he’s whipping out 6 rassengans on his back (wasn’t he unable to form normal rassengan in his kuubi mode?) and a Rassengan vacuum, witch I don’t know the reason for, and the finger FRS witch was actually a big treat to see.

    I’m glad Naruto bypassed the whole control issues he had n the past and can use his techniques now flawlessly, I wonder if he can use FRS in his normal state now with only one clone.
    We remember Naruto had this problems because of the kyuubi’s interference back in the day, I think Jiraiya pointed it out in the summoning training during the chiunin exams, anyway I was sure Naruto would excel at his techniques after he tamed the fox, and while he’s really good at his techniques in the SO6P mode I was really eager to see him doing them in his normal state and even in sage mode as well.

    All and all this war is really starting to look better but I don’t want Naruto spoiling everything now that he’s all over the place, I hope everyone else will get there chance to stand against the powerful enemies they were facing. And did you guys see how Kakashi threw Gamahiro all the way to Naruto to save both Bee and Naruto’s lives, damn that kakashi and his Ramapage, he just can’t stay out of the spotlight, that bastard.

  286. @ Kanton, that’s right dude Mito had the same technique that Naruto has now, that means Naruto is more like Mito, jinchuriki wise, then his mother. Mito must have been a really great jinchuriki but this damn kishi won’t give us a gaiden of that period. It’s strange how everyone says the new generation will always surpass the older one, when we have these one generation about 100-130 years back that was the elite back then and is still considered the best one to the day. The only great shinobi born after Hashirama and Tobirama’s time are probably Minato, Itachi, Nagato, A, Bee, Sasuke and Naruto and a couple of Kages at best. While back then almost every shinobi in the stories was a badass dude.

  287. @ Eugen – Hahaha you where in my and Tenrai’s home towns last year, World Cup by any chance? but yeah we where lucky to actually have such good weather last year that time, since that year our winter came late, but this is more the norm for us, FREEZING up in Johannesburg and in Cape Town, Cold Wet and Windy 😛

    Hmm yeah I am not sure, having Naruto gain yet another “blood line limit” is kinda annoying to me, I liked that he could sense it but I thought it was because without the Kyuubi he had the purest heart… I know I was wrong now though… Wouldn’t it be interesting that some techniques are passed down from Jinchuriki to Jinchuriki? Like Orochimaru when he switched bodies some of the original bodies ideas and jutsu remained….

    I think Kakashi’s rampage is the only thing that this manga has now, “And did you guys see how Kakashi threw Gamahiro all the way to Naruto to save both Bee and Naruto’s lives, damn that kakashi and his Ramapage, he just can’t stay out of the spotlight, that bastard.” Made my day ^_^ hahaha.

    Naruto’s new jutsu, a lot of people are saying just couldn’t of been learn’t in that time but lets think about the time that has passed, its like everyone says Sasuke just masters jutsu, but it cause we don’t see the training process, Naruto has been off screen for a while and though the war has only lasted like a day or so, he been training since way before then while the others prepared for the war…

  288. @ Eugen – I think it will be about the same hey, look at it this way, in 90 years they not gonna think back and remember Kiba, but they will remember people like Naruto, Sasuke, Nagato etc, so when these “flash backs” happen its not the overall level of Ninja its just those outstanding cases, maybe they mean the general level goes up but the legendary ninja will always be seen as insanely powerful and also think of the opposition they would face.

  289. Just look at Hanzou @_@ he was legendary but actually not that special, and Deidara/Sasori beaten by a lighting blade and a nice talking too lol, that Kin Jin Brothers where also supposed to be amazingly strong yet I think they had only the 2 casualties of the unknown dude that takes a lot and that girl that said nothing and still got sucked in, I am still confused about that @_@

    I think should do a war progress report… @_@

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