Naruto 536 & 567 Double Breakdown

I was looking forward to doing a single breakdown last week before the weekend came along, you know, seeing as how Avatar kindly offered his services into doing three of them completely independently of my direct influence. Trololol. Then over the weekend, the manga randomly decided to be released. Stoopid manga. I would be bitching, but ever since chapter 535 came along with its fresh new perspective on the war from outside  of the war, the series has been great for me again. And I could imagine for you guys too; but that’s not my call to make.

Lol?

The breakdown is about chapters 536 and 37, however. And I’m really not going to take your time tonight, but to be honest, I completely expected what happened in these chapters, not by way of actual content, but in recognizing Kishi will need a few more bridge chapters before getting Naruto to spray some rage sauce all over this war, and then of course is the culminative revisit to NaruSasu and their twisted love-hate relationship. Until then, we can treat ourselves to the diabolism of an ebil old man and his pet heretical demon statue giant humanoid monster, Gedo Madzo.

So? Hit or miss?

It's funny because that font is called AxeBlack

Frankly, I’m too tired to really tell or maybe even care, but seeing as Madara is finally out into the fray you could say things are going to get a lot more heated from here on. I guess it’s already beginning to get some more interesting with Madara’s first efforts being to snatch the Crimson Gourd and Amber Purifying Pot from Team Darui containing two sets of the most retarded siblings you might ever come across, namely Beavis x Asshead and the other guy x the floating breasts.

Madara could be restoring his force’s assets, but I happen to think he may have something more in mind. He could be gathering the remaining Kyuubi chakra that has obviously been around as appetizer before the main course being Naruto. It would be interesting to see if he does have a way to recover the portion sealed off with Shiki Fuujin. With all the OP-ness Kishi is giving him, he should be capable of more than warp2win.

Then again, he did mention something about a “substitute.” A while ago, he also mentioned syncing Sasuke with Madzorz. I guess leftover 9-tails would sub quite well and would do the job. The question then is “What job?” And my answer? Do you really  wanna know? Do you?

Know your meme.

We probably are better off not knowing what this “job” is anyway. It could be something really amazing that you look forward to more than anything else. You know, kind of like Kakashi’s super awesomely epic rampage-ful rampage of epic sauce, source, source engine, etc. It might just be too much to handle, you know…

On an even happier note, I do sort of remember some talk of how awesome 9-tails/8-tails tag team action would be. I guess that something more to look forward to in the chapters to come.

Card games on motorcycles?!!

It appears both sides have each lost a proportionally equal amount, none significant on either. But “with nightfall comes the calm before the next storm…” The next part of the war approaches, and I do have much hope for it. It would seem all the fodder is out of the way and we can finally move on to the main event.

Tomorrow.

I’m gonna get some rest now.

Amen.

Prospekt, how could I forget?

—Fix

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~ by Captain Pickles on May 10, 2011.

145 Responses to “Naruto 536 & 567 Double Breakdown”

  1. Great breakdown pickles! Card games on motorcycles… rofl

  2. 2nd

  3. great job Pickles but you could have waited a bit more and do another triple for us.

  4. 3rd

    Nice Breakdown Pickles

  5. Nice breakdown Pickles.

    I think we’re all hoping for a great main event. The recent chapters haven’t been bad, but they could have been so much more than they were. There were a few good moments between a lot of inconsequential filler pieces, but I really do think it will pick up a lot now.

    *Eats Pein for being a hater.*

  6. “a lot of inconsequential filler pieces”

    Lol, Tenrai you shouldn’t have said that… Just look at this chapter. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/42035636/1

    It sort of felt like a filler to me, but I hope it’s important later on.

  7. Well isn’t Naruto the egotistical little bastard. Everything the Kyubi said this chapter made perfect sense. I don’t see how simply brushing it off like it’s nothing means it’ll cease to exist.

  8. @ the new chapter, thank God for the final 2 pages. The whole flashback was the biggest waste of panel kishi made so far in the war.

    But finally I can see the kyuubi starting to feel a little bit of fear and starting to respect Naruto for the man he became. Maybe the time he joined powers with him has finally come. And what I’m most hoping to see in the future is a flashback of kyuubi’s maybe from the time of the Sage of six paths and find out how he was when he was part of Juubi.

  9. @ Kisu, maybe someday that’s what the kyuubi (Juubi) was for, a vessel for the hate and fear that the Rikudo Sannin used to accumulate in his life and didn’t want to make his own.

    And now the kyuubi is just telling Naruto what kind of a heavy burden that is to take upon one’s self.

  10. @kisuzachi

    It’s like Naruto said. If he second guesses himself, or questions himself, it’s as good as over for him.

    Naruto made it his mission to end the cycle of hatred. There’s no point in trying if you can’t believe in yourself, right? Naruto may not have the answers yet, but he’ll never find them if he can’t believe in himself first.

  11. And Pickles is back. Awesome breakdown.

    The “What do you mean YOU PEOPLE?!!” Is still giving me spasms. xD

    As for what has happened in the chapter. I think Madara will most definitely try to revive Juubi and become it’s Jinchuuriki now that he has the Lightning brothers.

  12. Shouldn’t the title be “536 and 537”?? I know, its understood, but I can’t help being a nit-picker 😛

  13. Kyubi: So Naruto, how do you plan to erase hatred that’s been around for centuries?

    Naruto:…. I’m Naruto!

    That’s the answer this blond retard always gives. *sigh #frustrated

  14. Card games on moter bikes?

    So the last chapter to me proved that Sasuke is going to turn good in the end to me. They’ll do the harmony thing after their fight, with Naruto possibly being in the same position as Sasuke was when he won in the past. It also seems we’ll see Naruto vs. Sasuke within a month. That’s my thoughts anyways.
    Blowing of the Kyubi was stupid though. He should at least consider how to deal with the hatred. He can believe in himself, but blowing off something you need to work with is downright selfish.

  15. lol, “blowing of the Kyubi”. I figured I should catch that before everyone else.

  16. It’s funny how back then, everyone saw Sasuke as the hero and Naruto as the outcast who is only worth hating, and yet now, Naruto is seen as the hero of Konoha while Sasuke is seen as an enemy.

    I guess the saying “don’t judge a book by it’s cover” rings true here. Everyone was making judgements based on preconceived ideas, instead of waiting and seeing what was in each person’s heart. Now that Naruto and Sasuke have both shown their true colours, suddenly things have changed, but I still think it’s shallow how everyone just praised Sasuke and wrote off Naruto without getting to know them first.

    Except for those very few like Iruka, Kakashi, Hinata and Jiraiya, who managed to look underneath the underneath. @___@

  17. I agree with Kisu on this one, Naruto annoys me. I mean Kyuubi still says that Nagato/Pain had fallen into it, but Naruto’s like no not me.. I am better then him. But he has no answer he is just running into a battle where 40 000 people have died (Zetsu aren’t people) That is 40 000 loved ones over 5 different Nations, How is he gonna be able to change that back, take away that anger and sadness. and what will happen after the war, the villages will be weakened and close to economic collapes with such a large portion of there ninja killed. So Villages will have to do something to survive and compete for jobs and this could again spark war. Think about it, you think the Raikage gonna be like okay now my people can starve while Konoha seem to have kept there main fighting force (Kakashi of course he is like the 40 000 man army).

    How does Naruto think he can bring those people back to life? Can he just take the scares of war away because he is “Naruto” NO!

    I know Kishi has done a good job of hiding the pain of this war with hopes and dreams and fancy jutsu that the “good” guys been using but if 40 000 people died then its massive.

    Next Naruto is gonna say “I Believe I can Fly” and Kishi will be like yes that is the explination of how Naruto learned to fly he “Believed it!”

    @ Tenrai – LOL Naruto is like the book Jiriya wrote “The Gutsy Ninja” and Sasuke is like the pervy books he wrote more popular but with less depth

  18. @pein, knowing Kishi he’ll make Naruto’s Kyubi cloak revive them (all the casualties of war) and justify it by saying the chakra if filled with “love and life”. BLARGH! Not even Care Bears was this cheesy. This is just like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!

    also, great analogy with the books there old buddy 🙂

  19. @Pein and Kisu

    Actually, I already thought of a legitamite way for Kishi to bring about peace in the story. I’m not sure whether it would work, but then, it is just a theory anyway.

    And that is with the power of the Izinagi. Remember, the true power of the Izinagi is that it can turn thoughts and dreams into reality. It was how the Sage created life. Now, who’s to say that the same power can’t turn a dream of peace into a reality?

    I think you two are just jumping to conclusions a bit. Naruto may not have the answer yet, as I said before, but that doesn’t mean he should just give up and be all emo and say it is impossible.

    He is trying to believe in himself and maybe he already has an idea of how to do it. Who knows?

    I just find it funny that your favorite character was someone who considered himself to be god, and yet you both complain about Naruto being overconfident.

  20. @ Tenrai –

    “It was how the Sage created life. Now, who’s to say that the same power can’t turn a dream of peace into a reality?”

    So the sage was a real “god” If this happens how is Naruto any different from Madara? His will for peace will then also alter reality and it will be forced through Naruto’s will @_@

    If that is the end, I think Bleach will be declared the better of the two, I mean hope and jelly tots work for some but I don’t think one can either force peace or change reality of others… Inzagi means blindness, what would Naruto’s sacrifice be?

    I understand Naruto may not have the answer yet and you know the annoying thing is I know that, I also know Kishi is gonna make it pop out at the last minute and everyone will sing kumbyja, but that is what annoys me, like Sasuke pulling out Manda when he was empty. Naruto Poping up with some idea now would be the same Ass Pull in my opinion, this is the problem that people have tried to answer for generations, Pein/Itachi/All Kage’s strived for peace now a 16 year old will somehow figure it out while running into a war @_@

    What annoys me is not that he doesn’t have a plan is that he wont stop to consider the implications him moving into the war will do, if Naruto is found/captured all 40 000 deaths would of been for nothing and Bee the same. Its like fighting to protect your friend and they end up killing themselves. (not as drastic but similar)

    He believes in himself but unjustifiably, Pein was like a “god” to his people, he was Powerful and he brought them Peace. It wasn’t just himself that thought he was a god. But yeah he is my favorite because he had a plan, twisted and wrong but he still had an ideal to go for, Naruto is just running hoping something comes up.

    If Naruto admitted the trouble of this task I would be like least he is realistic but he isn’t.

  21. @Pein

    Kishi may pull off a lame ending, or he may not. How about we get there before we make ourselfs upset thinking we know how it will turn out?

    I just don’t understand how Naruto’s efforts are frowned upon but Nagato’s are praised, when Naruto is just as renowned as Pein was right now. He is also seen as a hero by his people and people believe in him now. He is also strong now, probably almost as strong as Pein now that he has the Kyuubi’s chakra under his control.

    You say he believes in himself unjustifiably, but why? That’s like saying that in order to achieve something you need to believe in yourself, but you are not allowed to believe in yourself until you achieve it. It’s a complete contradiction of ethics and it doesn’t make sense.

    We don’t know yet what Naruto is thinking. We don’t know what Kishi is thinking. all we know is that he has real faith in himself for the first time and somehow it’s the end of the world.

  22. @Tenrai, Naruto is thinking that he can achieve peace the same way countless others have tried and failed miserably. If that isn’t arrogance then I don’t know what is. Pain at least had the sense to know that if so many people failed trying to get it that way, why not try some newer method?

    You’ll have to excuse my lack of faith. The Gaara speech that destroyed decades of hatred and suddenly made all the shinobi best friends has killed any faith I might have in the answer Kishi will give Naruto. It will almost certainly be some clichéd bs.

  23. @ Tenrai – that is fair we don’t know what is going to happen in Naruto just yet and I do have faith that Kishi could write a great ending for it, but I am just afraid the results will just seem unrealistic in any sort of way… If we blindly follow that it could happen and not each individual chapter then there is little point in discussion or breakdowns, I think me and Kisu agree cause we seen how a great manga like Naruto can fall.. cough cough “Bleach” and your die hard fans will still argue its better then Naruto….

    I frown at Naruto’s efforts cause his answer is, I will do it eventually somehow nicely… Pein’s answer I will do it by having people understand each others Pain…

    Status – Naruto a hero to the Leaf and Sand… the other nations only see him as the Kyuubi except Killer Bee.

    Pein – Was the Leader of Akatsuki. Leader of Ame.

    The difference is Naruto has never had to lead and make tough choices as the leader of the village or even a squad. He has not been put in the situation Nagato was put in (about the same age) having to choose between Sasuke and Sakura, or Iruka and Jiriaya.

  24. @Pein

    Pein was no more known than Naruto. In fact, it was only at a very late stage in the story that Jiraiya even found out where “the leader of Akatsuki” was hiding and even then, he didn’t know anything more than that, not even his name.

    Pein was a mystery to everyone until Fukusaku brought back info about him back to Konoha, and only those in Ame saw him as a hero, despite knowing little about him themselves.

    I don’t see how he was any more renowned than Naruto is now.

    In any case, to answer your other point, this is a fantasy manga and chances are, the end won’t be realistic regardless of what kind of end it is. Even then, as I said before, all we know is that Naruto wants to end hatred and not how, so it is prudent to assume he is being unreasonable any more than Pein was.

    Maybe that’s why he’s trying to stop Sasuke. If he can end the cycle of hatred that was born between their two bloodlines thousands of years before, then maybe that’s his way of testing his own resolve and proving to himself that he has what it takes. If Sasuke can be changed, then there is hope for anyone. O_o

    In any case, it was Nagato that left this mission to Naruto as well, so you can thank him. 😛

  25. @Ten, what Pein is saying is, Pain had to lead people. Naruto has never been in a leadership position. As leader of Amegakure the village enjoyed peace and prosperity it has never before. The people there truly loved their god and his angle because they brought peace to them. Naruto is still far too naive. You can’t change the world with pretty words, well, unless your name is Gaara.

    We know it’s a fantasy manga, but Kishi dug himself into this hole when he brought the cycle of revenge into this story. He should have kept it as simple as it was before. People still enjoyed the story back then, but he felt he needed to be philosophical and that’s why I’m taking this seriously. Naruto is essentially trying to answer a question that no one in human history has been able to answer. I want to see how good or bad Kishi’s answer to this question is. That is the sole reason I still read this manga, I’ve lost all interest in characters and so on ever since Konan died.

    Pain’s answer to this question was downright brilliant. I mean, before Chapter 436, I just though of Pain as the boring cliched villain that wants to rule the world. That chapter catapulted Pain from being a character I was indifferent to to becoming my favorite character in the entire series.

  26. @ Tenrai – I never said he was more famous (by name) then Naruto, I was saying that he was known, everyone knew Akatsuki but Pain was not trying to be popular and well known among the world since then he would be targeted and his home being Ame that would cause conflict in the area…

    Like Kisu said what I was saying is Pain was a leader and had to make tough decisions through his life, he created peace in a Village that was torn apart by civil war etc.

    Like I made the analogy earlier, just believing in oneself won’t change anything, if he believes he can fly (even in a fictional manga) if he doesn’t train or learn a technique for it, it isn’t going to happen, I mean flying is probably easier then peace in Naruto.

    Naruto has had some good results before, he changed Gaara, Tsunade and Neji. The First and the last he literally beat it into them 😛 but I don’t think that Peace is possible since people like Orochimaru like Madara like Pain will be born or created in time, Danzou. etc

    Pein/Tobi are all hoping for peace in their own way, but the world won’t accept it cause it isn’t “real” peace so what would be actually be true peace, everyone getting along after a speech, I mean can you truly make it right for Sasuke loosing his family and all the people that are now loosing their loved ones will that hatred be taken away by a simple speech or happy thoughts, if you as a human lost everyone close to you will the pain go away just by hearing nice words. As great as people can be, I think we all would fall short when it comes forgiving those who hurt our loved ones.

  27. @Pein speak for yourself dude. Gaara’s speech would make Osama bin Laden, Hitler and Saddam cry over what they did and turn themselves in. I mean, pretty words are much better than any laws or judicial punishment, y’know.

    *SARCASM FTW*

  28. @ kisu – lol, Nah I think Gaara’s Speech would of made the Americans forgive Osama, The Jews forgive Hitler etc.

    Its funny in realistic terms, do you pull a Light and kill Madara cause he is evil or do you act as L and say that murder is murder and wrong, is it just because ones ideals are different doesn’t mean its wrong either. That is why Pein’s Speech is my favourite, when he asked Naruto what his justice would be, does Naruto kill him to avenge the people he killed because he killed those people as revenge for the people he lost. Do we allow others to just walk over us to keep peace…

  29. I wonder if Madara approuched Naruto having the power that Pain tried to gain, the power to destroy a country and said to him openly, hand yourself over or I will use this power to kill everyone you care about… Since the Shinobi Allaince greatest idea so far was compressing the war into one area. All the Teams moving closer together, if Madara asked him to give himself over and he will spare the people’s lives. What would Naruto actually do? Hand himself over, let the bad guys win or have Madara kill everyone which means he looses… This is quite an interesting senario since Naruto has never really been in a loose loose situation where he had to make the choice. That is sometimes why I wonder about the Villains if people like Kisu can think of better plans you would think a person over 100 years would know better @_@ Dam Villain Tropes 😛

  30. “knowing Kishi he’ll make Naruto’s Kyubi cloak revive them (all the casualties of war) and justify it by saying the chakra if filled with “love and life”. BLARGH! Not even Care Bears was this cheesy. This is just like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!”

    It could be worse… It could be like Bleach.

    “Naruto is thinking that he can achieve peace the same way countless others have tried and failed miserably. If that isn’t arrogance then I don’t know what is. Pain at least had the sense to know that if so many people failed trying to get it that way, why not try some newer method?”

    And what way is that? Naruto already explained he knows talking won’t do the trick any more. Especially with Sasuke.

    And Nagato’s ‘newer’ method is as old as time. Ever since mankind started fighting one another it’s always been about one thing, creating a weapon the enemy couldn’t overcome or defend against. The club, the sword, the arrow, the gun, the cannon, the tank, the nuclear bomb, all were created with the same purpose, a deterrent. A means to keep the enemy at bay with fear. A false form of peace.
    In that sense it is Nagato who failed to realize his method wouldn’t work. In a way that’s what he realized in the end. He replaced hope for a better future with fear for a darker future. He had given up on himself and betrayed what Yahiko and Akatsuki stood for. Then he sold himself to Madara and became Madara´s dog. He sold his soul to the devil.

    “Pain’s answer to this question was downright brilliant.”

    You mean Kishi’s explanation of Nagato’s motives… And no, it wasn’t brilliant. If Pain had decided to unite the world by becoming the worlds villain and threatening to lay down judgement on anyone attempting an act of war, then he would’ve been brilliant.
    Nothing unites people more than a common enemy or a threat they can’t overcome or defend against on their own.

  31. “And what way is that? Naruto already explained he knows talking won’t do the trick any more. Especially with Sasuke.”

    Lol but talking is exactly what Naruto has been doing all this time. Jiraiya failed to usher in peace with pretty words, Naruto will too, well, that’s if this is carried out realistically (which it probably wont if Gaara’s speech is any indication).

    “And Nagato’s ‘newer’ method is as old as time.”

    It’s never been done in the Naruto universe, which means Nagato came up with it. Also, I’m speaking in the context of the Naruiniverse, a world much more violent and volatile than our own. In under 80 years they’ve had 4 World Wars.

    “If Pain had decided to unite the world by becoming the worlds villain and threatening to lay down judgement on anyone attempting an act of war”

    What happens when he dies? Nagato’s answer would maintain peace much longer than him becoming the bad guy of the world. By the time Madara’s dead, there’s no doubt things will return to normal with the Villages and countries in a few years. Nagato’s method would ensure peace even after he died.

  32. OMG a new breakdown!!
    well a newer breakdown in any case… =P

    At this point I can not say one way or another whether or not Naruto is justified or unjustified in his confidence. Nor can I say one way or another that I think this story arc will end well or poorly. Currently Kishi is still on the plus side of the column on writing decently. The Pein invasion arc being the only one that really didn’t live up to my expectations. So I will wait patiently to see what happens.

    I leave this debate with a quote from a wise and powerful warrior though.

    “Try not, Do or do not. There is no try.”
    If you don’t know who said this you fail… hard.

  33. I know who said that! I know who said that! It was Dumbledore!

  34. 34TH!

    No direct influence, my ass. It was witchcraft. The “trololo” is proof enough.

  35. “but talking is exactly what Naruto has been doing all this time.”

    And it made him the victor many times over. But Naruto knows that won’t work on Sasuke (and Madara). He may not be the smartest person but he’s no fool.

    “It’s never been done in the Naruto universe, which means Nagato came up with it.”

    Before the Sage of the Six Paths came along the Naruto Universe was like our world. Countries relied on soldiers to fight battles. Furthermore, the world was in constant war.
    I seriously doubt Nagato (not particularly the smartest ninja to grace the Naruto world) was the first to come up with ‘his answer’.
    Since the creation of the Bijuu’s countries have been trying to capture every single one of them to dominate in terms of power. If one country would have captured all of them they would’ve decimated all opposition and created ‘peace’ the same way Nagato wanted to.

    “Also, I’m speaking in the context of the Naruiniverse, a world much more violent and volatile than our own. In under 80 years they’ve had 4 World Wars.”

    All the more reason to assume Nagato’s method wouldn’t work at all. In our world we consider the grave consequences an atomic attack can unleash. In the Naruto world entire countries are wiped out because they house a clan who excel in sealing abilities. Nobody cares afterwards.
    It’s like Jiraiya said, Nagato’s plan would only make wars bigger up until the point of total annihilation. The ultimate weapon would constantly switch countries and every country would use it against their enemy. Sure, at the end one country would remain and they would experience ‘peace’. The same way Hitler would have experienced peace with his third reich if he had won the arms race and developed the atomic bomb first.
    The countries don’t fear using Bijuu’s, why would they fear using a weapon derived from the chakra of all Bijuu’s?..
    With Nagato as a common enemy they would focus their attention to him in stead of their enemies. Sure, that would last only until Nagato died but it beats watching the countries destroy each other within a few years time.

    But all in all, I know why you post this. You’re posts are only intended to aggravate because you don’t like Naruto as a character.
    You still don’t like the fact that Naruto beat Nagato. However, you fail to see Naruto didn’t beat Nagato. He only reminded Nagato of Yahiko’s and Akatsuki’s initial intentions. Nagato realized how far he had strayed off his path and how much he had betrayed Yahiko and all the other Akatsuki that died to protect Nagato, Amegakure and the dream the Ame-orphans had.

  36. I for one didn’t take Naruto’s testament of will that literal, I am sure he has something up his sleeve but just didn’t say it to prove a point to the kyuubi.

    Remember the whole of the last chapter were about Naruto proving himself to the kyuubi and the fox to acknowledge Naruto. That’s why Naruto went to that extent to show the kyuubi hi’s boss and the time when he was manipulated by the fox were gone

    Maybe faith in himself is the true path Naruto follows but you have to realize that path was laid before him by Jirayia, Minato and even Nagato so Naruto isn’t going to war all on self confidence as most of you think, he’s there to fulfill the will that was passed down to him by the greatest names in the Naruto verse, people who themselves didn’t fulfill there role as they should have and saw in Naruto the cumulation of all there wills.

    It isn’t by chance Naruto was chosen by so many weak and strong to be the one to bring peace.
    But just as Baron pointed out many hate on Naruto for there own reasons, I for one don’t like Naruto all that much but for what he stand he’s the hero of this manga and in my mind there’s no one better.

    Many of you like pain for the fact that he was the most powerful guy in the manga and feel pity for him that he met his end at Naruto’s words.
    But if Pain was so awesome he wouldn’t have needed Madara to tell him what to do, all he needed was Konan to keep him on the path they set on when they were kids and had the best perception on life and death.
    I hope you all can agree that as a child we see things more clearly that we can ever see them as grownups, as kids we see the good and the bad, undivided and unblemished by politics, religion and power, we instinctively know good from bad.

    And that was what the Ame orphans saw in there youths, but as time went on and there comrades fell the emotions clouded that path for good and altered there paths the way it did.

    Naruto being a kid he’s the perfect guy for this job, he knows good from evil and he knows what his ultimate goal is.
    That’s why Naruto didn’t even consider Pain’s first words to him after he got back to Konoha and found it in ruins, he attacked Pain immediately because he knew what Pain had did was wrong and it was all he needed to know.

    @ iamnotreallyhere, isn’t that Yoda?????

  37. @Kisu

    Sorry to say, but Nagato’s ideas for peace weren’t any more realistic than what you claim Naruto’s to be.

    We live in a world where, as Barren has stated, atomic weapons are capable of wiping out entire cities in a second and yet the fear of a fallout which could ultimately lay ruin to our planet and make it uninhabittable, has done nothing to stop wars from occuring.

    And yet, you claim that the Narutoverse is even more brutal than our own. It doesn’t make sense to me then, how Nagato’s plan would have worked in that case if they are even more war hungry than we are.

    In fact, where has the fear of repurcussions ever stopped humanity from charging blindly ahead to fulfill their own ambitions?

    Ultimately, we are reading too far into something that is still a new development here. We still don’t know what Naruto’s plan is and yet, you are already assuming Nagato’s was better. Here’s the bottom line, Nagato is dead and so is his plan. Why? Because clearly he didn’t have as much faith in it as he had in Naruto in the end…

  38. I have some treats for you kids.

    Nice tasty SSpoilerss

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69996

  39. chapter: http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/63036033/1

    First thoughts: Holy shit, Pain and Itachi, Fuck yeah!!! evil!Neji!? i am…okay with this 😛

    and once again we hear that special word from Naruto; “SOMEDAY”. god, he says this shit all the time and never lives up to his crap. “Someday ill become hokage and magically fix your fucked up clan Nejii”, “Someday ill become hokage, and not die Tsunade”, “Someday i’ll ~magically~ find world peace Pain, don’t worry about it, i’ll do it somehow once im hokage”, “except someday i might kill myself with Sasuke, so forget the previous three statements” and now this:

    Naruto: “someday i’ll change your hatred into magically fluffy goodness XD”
    Kyubei: im a huge monster made of evil. how do you intend to do that?
    Naruto: i dunno, somehow. im not a little baby anymore after all.
    Kyubei: …you didnt answer my questi-
    Naruto: Ok, Byeeeee!

    Naturally he’ll probably succeed, being a shonen protagonist, but still, it should take more then just hoping for it. it takes action, and Naruto has never actually done anything to persue those goals, just yelled about how he will definitely get there, “someday”. …le sigh…

  40. *Jumps through a random window and flips then pulls off a perfect three point landing.* I HAVE RETURNED!!!!!!!!!! Oh look a new breakdown “536 & 567,” eh *Pauses then summon legendary bazooka fires a rocket with the label EPIC FAIL!!!!! * *cough* Anyway *reads comments* Hmm regardless of Nagato’s idea there ONE BIG PROBLEM, and that’s Madara. Another thing “Masochists *snickers* is that judging by his attack on Konoha it’s clear that his peace meas that you should sell out you’re friend for your own peace and if they don’t they need to die right. Also that’s after he destroyed a few homes, killed a few people for defending their home(they’re wrong dead wrong for doing that ) and attacked civilians. He such a saint right as long as you’re not a jinchurriki or from Konoha.

  41. THIS NEW MANGA WAS MADE OF AWESOMENESS.

    Naruto is a conglomeration of epic and win.

  42. Well that was a waste of a chapter. Well said Takashid.

  43. I feel to much critics towards this manga as of late, not to offend anyone and judge your wright to opinion but as far as I am concerned the chapter wasn’t bad at all.

    Plus it’s the perfect thing in terms of a great chapter in Naruto:

    It had Nagato and Pain, so that’s a really big bonus, the talk between kyuubi and Naruto was as vogue as Naruto can get but the pannel when Naruto says “Bye” and the Kyuubi stares at him with the “Fuck Kakashi’s heading this way” look on it’s face was awesomeness.
    Neji either was genjutu’ed or zetsu’ed to perfection but thank God for that and the fact that this is, hopefully, gonna be as long or even longer night then the 1st day of war was. And thus it gives the story a little more plot, thing that is much need now of of all times so the story and the war doesn’t feel rushed.

  44. Oh on a side not, If the Kyuubi is made of hate and malevolence those that state and those emotions apply to the other bijuus or are the other tailed beasts spawns of other emotins and feelings?

  45. Sorry, I meant “On A Side Note”

  46. @Eugen, there are more critiques sprouting simply because this war sucks. It sucks so hard because of all the wasted potential and Kishi’s lack of knowledge on what a “war” is.

  47. kisu: actually i did enjoy this chapter. I really loved the itachi/Pain interaction, can’t wait to see more of that team up wreck the good guys. I liked their talk about Akatsuki and how much both of them knew. Heres hoping pain will mention Sasuke in the future so we can see what itachi says. And the Neji thing was surprising in a good way, and actually interesting. I am 100% that Neji hasn’t really gone evil, but its still a nice cliffhanger. No doubt Naji is either being mind controlled or is an imposter.

  48. What was this, a filler manga chapter? X_x
    But I got to see Itachi, can’t really complain.

  49. @Takashid, but the only good part WAS Itachi/Pain. I love how Itachi called him “Pain” though. Who cares about some ephebophile who wants to pound Sakura? And who cares about some Neji impostor? If this doesn’t kill any major ninjas then it is just another canon filler. Was there really a point in Kisame sending the info back to Madara because it really hasn’t come into play.

  50. That was actually a good chapter, but I have to agree with Eugen here. There are just a lot of people finding whatever reason to complain about Naruto right now even when a decent chapter comes out.

    But personal taste is personal taste, I guess. What I don’t get though is why you guys complain about Naruto’s character now, when he has been like this for a while now. 539 chapters into the story is a bit much to still be complaining about the protagonist when he’s clearly not going to change, so, it feels like a wasted effort.

    It’s like comnplaining about Sasuke being emo. No matter how much you have a fit about it, it still won’t change the fact, so why let it get to you?

    And what’s wrong with a little bit of faith anyway?

    P.S. Did anyone else notice how much like Orochimaru Neji looked at the end there? If you just changed the eyes for Oro’s….

    @Kisu

    Thanks to Kisame’s info, Madara discovered the location of the last two Jinchuuriki, as well as Yamato, and got Kisame’s information on the alliances battle strategies(Kisame witnessed one of the meetings).

    This is also what allowed Kabuto to attack the island and subsequently capture Yamato, which eventually led to Madara’s forces being greatly enhanced. I doubt they would have faired very well without that boost, so Kisame’s information has clearly played some role in this war already.

  51. @ Tenrai, now that you brought it up, those super enhanced Shodaime Zetsus are crap, Besides the fact that they can drain chakra on contact they seem to be almost as useful as Tenten.

    Makes you wonder just how strong Shodaime really was. I mean Danzou could control Mokutona and 10 bloody sharingans and still bring a bigass Tapir summon to his fight with Sasuke all that plus the usage of Shisui’s eye.

    These Zetsus only advantage is the overwhelming number, and the funny thing is these creatures have both Shodaime and Yamato cells running through them plus all that chakra from GedoMazo with belonged to bijuus.
    It’s beyond me how Madara had any hope of victory without Kabuto, and without spawning Gado Mazo at the start of the battle.
    I bet that not even he himself would have made that much difference on the battlefield, he’s abilities being more and more uncovered it would have been only a matter of time before someone would match him sin a fight and he would have lost. And that someone is Naruto by the way 😀

  52. Tenrai: my problem IS that Naruto hasnt changed. thats the problem. He still tackles everything with no plan, and expects everything to turn out ok because he’ll do “something!”… “someday”. It was fine when he was a kid genin, but now he is expected to have grown a little. As he is now, i dont think he should ever be allowed to be the leader of anything, let alone an entire village.

  53. @Takashid

    I agree that he isn’t ready to be a leader, but then, he still has a lot of growing to do in that department.

    @Eugen

    Remember, the Shodaimes power was being split between 80 000 or however many Zetsus, so you can’t expect them to be that great. Even Pein’s power divided by 80 000 would make him less potent than the average Jounin.

    Gedo pumps it up a bit more to compensate, but even then, Madara himself said that he didn’t want to use too much of its power because he needed it to resurect the Juubi, so only a fraction is being used.

    As for Madara not winning the war without Kabuto’s help, why do you think he tried to negotiate first? Mifune already suggested that Madara knew he was facing a force of unknown power and was taking a massive gamble. Madara was just lucky he drew an ace for his hand at the right time.

  54. Guys watch the 212 shippuden episode to the very end and besides the horrific spread in the magazine we see Naruto playing @ trying to use byakugan to see through the pages.
    Do you think that was just for fun or could there be something behind that in the future. Because Kishi has been known to leave these little hints in the anime before.

  55. Kisu: what info was it that kisame got out again? its been so much filler- i mean, so much war that i forgot. and it seems like the info wasnt even that important anyway, making kisames death pointless.

  56. I just noticed something, in the latest naruto manga when Neji collapses at the beginning of the manga he has his hair bound at the bottom end as he usually has, but we can see that when he stabs the medical jounins he has his hair unbound witch is a bit unusual for him. So that’s just probably another hint that that really isn’t Neji. I’m actually betting he’s a white zetsu clone, but it would be a little to simple.

  57. @ Baron – So after running down us for thinking Pein actually had some sort of brains to run an organization like Akatsuki (Original) not the Madara one invented later and an actual plan to create peace… you ever hear of the policy of M.A.D – Mutually Assured Destruction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

    This is what I think Pain wanted to create, a situation where any attack by anyone would mean the destruction of both, yes at first like USA destroyed parts of Japan to end WW2. You may not know the history of the world but after WW2 was a time known as the Cold War the USSR vs USA, these where the two world powerhouses and both didn’t want the other to expand. but this never actually turned to a real War, because they knew if one entered a war both could easily be destroyed. This has stopped major wars throughout the world, yes there are middle east crap, and a few others to speak of but compared to WW1 and 2 which happened within about 20 Years of each other, they where very small.

    There is nothing really to deter war in Naruto. The end war isn’t ment to be for the hell of it, it comes out of neccessity. So when the Sand Attacked the leaf, they needed to or they would die, but if the leaf and sand knew entering into war would result in mutual destruction of both the risk would be higher.

    I dislike Naruto trying to change something that can’t be changed and making it seem so easy. If there is 2 families, one is starving and the other has lots of food, what you think is gonna happen? The starving will want to take from the the richer or the richer will become greedy and want more and more as the other starve.

    Lets say the world enters a war today over the water supplies, you think nice words are gonna make people think, “that makes sense lets just die” No if you think you gonna die and u need something someone else has you fight for it, you fight to survive its basic human and animal nature. That is what upsets me about Naruto, he thinks he can change this? and his great idea is “I’ll figure it out”

    ALSO HE WANTS TO CHANGE THE FOX THAT IS CREATED FROM HATRED!! WTF!!

  58. @ chapter – After Naruto’s little chat I really enjoyed this chapter, it wasn’t war battle war filler etc. It was kinda like a Metal Gear Solid 😛 it shows how spys and infiltration units are used in war, which Ibiki has shown to be very important. I like also how they target the Medical united, attacking the heart and the restore, I know in Strategy games whenever there is a healer I gotta take him out first or else my people end up loosing.

    If this was really Neji and he was reverting to his old self I would of been like SWEET plot twist, honestly. If all that, I can see more birds and Naruto will change things as hokage was all an act I would be so stocked… Though as soon as a Main Branch guy comes along Neji would be dead anyway. I am sure its a Zetsu or a Kabuto summon that we don’t know about that can take on others appearance etc.

    I must say getting into Night I am really enjoying Kakashi’s rampage Night Lightning mode, I mean truly awesome stuff.
    – See how he tames the 9 Tailed fox like that, I think the fox could of gotten out when Naruto opened but decided to rather hang back since he knew Kakashi was out there @_@
    – Kakashi finally found peace guys, I mean I really think Kishi wrote it brilliantly, Kakashi wanted Peace and the war just stopped! I mean they all just standing behind rocks now hoping not to be seen by Kakashi (though its pointless since Kakashi see’s all)
    – Kakashi infiltrating the medical units was also cool I mean someone had to check if there security is on par so that is probably why he killed them, for not seeing it was him earlier @_@

  59. Did anyone notice the bottom 2 panels on this page
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/63036033/8

    We see Neji entering Sakura’s tent to get treated in the left pannel but in the one the bottom right we see him leaving somwere.

    And on the next page we see Neji still inside getting treated.

    But on this page: http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/63036033/16 we see Neji asking the two medical jonins were Sakura’s tent is.

    The thing is Neji should already know that since he got treated in her tent we he first came is.

    So we can assume that the treated Neji was indeed the real one while the impostor showed up earlier as someone else and transfigured into Neji after he cam in.

  60. I’m sorry at the first like I meant the panels the other way @.

  61. Am I missing something? *Besides my sanity.* I hear people talking about Kakashi’s rampage like it was shown at all….Did I miss a chapter or is there a lot of hallucinating going on in this blog?

  62. The new chapter is out.

    http://www.mangastream.com/read/naruto/42696575/1

    It looks like Madara’s battle strategy was never to just win outright, through power, in the first place after all and the damage he truly aimed to inflict would only really show afterwards.

    And here we were all complaining that the alliance was winning too easily when, in fact, they were just creating a dangerous trap for themselves.

    The best part, however, is that we may see an epic tag-team battle up next. @__@

  63. damn I was so wright about neji being a white zetsu :P.
    I’m lookin ffw to see what strategy Shikaku will come out to face the zetsu clones.

  64. I also wonder if naruto’s new life energy skill will regenerate Raikage’s arm so to gain his good graces and continue on his way to the battlefield with Bee. This after beating the Raikage at first.

  65. @Eugen: I’m thinking Shikaku will be surprised as, while he’s trying to think of a plan, Naruto chooses to Kage Bushin with “evil detection” turned on, targets the Zetsu’s directly, and eliminates the threat.

  66. @Arpotu

    Yeah, I was actually thinking that only Naruto would really be able to sniff out the Zetsus. He was able to notice Kizame’s presense inside the Samehada, even though their chakra was identical, so he would also be able to sense a Zetsu from their intentions alone.

    Actually, I believe that will be the defining factor that will force the alliance and the Raikage to accept his aid in the war.

    But, the end of the last chapter specifically stated that it would be Raikage vs Naruto next week, so at least we will see an epic battle first. And the best part is that there will be opening colour pages.

    I can’t wait. @___@

  67. @ Arpotu and Tenrai, that’s actually really smart to say Naruto will clear the mist, so to say, in this chaotic night via the use of his new ability for sniffing out bad guys.

    But who will tell Naruto about all this, because Bee and Yamato are the only ones that know about Naruto’s trick and neither know about the zetsus to inform Naruto, so will he FIGURE IT OUT ON HIS OWN ????? Please kishi don’t make Naruto look like a dumbass again.

  68. Boring chapter is boring.

  69. @kisu: you should see this weeks anime episode. Now that is boring.

  70. @Eugen

    Naruto has already sensed the chaos occuring in the main army camp. You must remember he is probably one of the most powerful sensor types alive right now with Sage mode and Kyuubi Saiyan mode.

    So, no-one really needs to tell him about it. If anything, he might be the first to mention it to Tsunade and Raikage, seeing as how they don’t know about it yet.

    I don’t think he will realise it is the Zetsu’s causing the chaos, but chances are, the news will get around quick enough.

    @Kisu

    Trolling Kisu is trolling. 😛

  71. If Naruto really does fight the raikage then i am gonna facepalm hard. what a waste of time for us as readers, and a stupid move by the good guys. it will just weaken their own side and help Madara. Im glad Sakura got to do something badass for once, but other then that the best part of this chapter was still Itachi and Pain. glad to see those two are still chatting, id looe to see them discuss Akatsuki and Sasuke. just to see what Itachi would say about Sasuke.

  72. @ takashid, I’m guessing that this fight with the Raikage is a way for kishi to make up for Naruto twisting his leg and letting Gai wow us with his moves, and now offers Naruto the chance to show us a little bit or maybe more of what Naruto can really do.

    It’s really clever if you think about it, at the end of the manga the presentation about raikage is that he’s a chakra powerhouse comparable to a bijuu. If that doesn’t spur things on I don’t know what will.

    I for one am on the edge of my seat to see the fight, it will not be a Naruto vs Sasuke fight but let’s face it that one’s for the main event. Naruto will show us what he’s made of and here kishi will take the time to tell us about what he can do, not like Sasuke’s fight with Danzo were everything he did was a little bit of a bonus. Kishi should do this thing with Sasuke too, just so we can have an idea about both the protagonists and there new powers.

  73. @takashid

    How is seeing an epic battle between Naruto and the Raikage a waste of time for us readers? O_o

    It would be epic!!!!

    *Eats Takashid for his blashpemy* <_<

  74. Tenrai and Eugen: its a waste of time because it does nothing but slow down the plot even more. sure it would be “epic”, and give Naruto lots of special show off time, but its not important at all. They are on the same side, and fighting each other is the stupidest thing they could do, as it would weaken each of them and leave them possibly wounded or tired. and all of this would only help Madara in the long run, since Naruto would be fighting his own kage and the commander of the unifed army. total waste of time and a really dumb move by our hero’s.

  75. @ This Battle being a waste of time

    I just thought of something, Naruto is a traitor now, whether you agree with Raikage or not he is the leader of this army and Naruto being a leaf ninja is under his command thus him refusing orders makes him a traitor!

  76. @pein: Naruto’s gonna go missing nin, and join up with Madara? Woot! Or do you think he’ll just burst onto the battlefield, declare himself the new Whirlpool Faction, and claim “you’ll have to follow him or die”?

    Hmm.. Whirlpool Faction vs Madara Faction vs Everyone Else Faction

    now THAT’s a war!

  77. @ Arpotu, its only fair though. Naruto is disobeying a direct order, in a military environment that is as bad, if not worse then going AWOL which Sasuke did.

    lol and then you have Madara’s Split again to Kabuto and the Uchiha 😉

  78. SPOILERS!!!!!!!

    http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=527462

  79. manga is out!!!!!

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/541

  80. That chapter was quite epic, I must say, except for the short flashback at the end, mostly because it seemed a bit too shallow.

    However, I am sure there is still more to it, but we’ll see soon enough.

    As for the Raikage, I find it a bit unfair how he only wants to kill Naruto when both Naruto and Bee are trying to join the battle, and even worse, he defends it with a pathetic excuse based on little rationality. Basically, he’s willing to kill someone else if it ensures peace, but not his own brother, which seems a bit selfish.

    I’m glad Bee decided to step in because it also shows how great a person he is, even moreso when you one considers the fact that he even went as far as suggesting that A killed him rather than Naruto, to let Naruto pass without consequence. He seemed serious as well, and it was unnexpected. I know Natuto would never let anyone die for him, but even still, it says a lot about Bee’s character.

    Now I wonder if we’ll see more to this battle, or if it will end with Bee’s intervention. The latter is more likely though, seeing as how if the Raikage did continue the fight, he would probably be up against Bee, Naruto and Tsunade… <_<

  81. gotta love how Naruto is all “My dad didnt fail! >:(”
    cause uh Naruto? if he was trying to pass on the duty of stopping Madara to you then he failed pretty badly. he told no one about Madara, leaving him free to do whatever he wanted from the shadows, and he left his son, the supposed “hope” to stop Madara alone, to be raised by an abusive village for 16 years. and despite both Jiriya and Kakashi being alive and well, Naruto still grew up alone. Its amazing he didnt turn evil like Sasuke!

  82. great chapter, I don’t give a damn who you are and what you want to oppose about it, it was awesome. Plus whit this one chapter we find out Naruto is stronger then Sasuke was before the EMS just by the fact that he can match the speed of Raikage and he can take a punch from him too.

    Who knew Bee wasn’t raikage’s real brother, that was Kishi’s trademark and why I love Naruto as a manga so much. Naruto should really use sage mode with the fox cloak to see the results.

    One more thing, Is the gut on the bottom right corner on the front page Kakashi without a mask?????????????

  83. I meant “the guy” not “the gut” sorry.

  84. @takashid

    The raikage mentioned that Minato failed to deal with the Nine-tailed fox and so that is what should be referenced here. He never actually mentioned Madara specifically or his plans when he was refering to Minato.

    In any case, at the time of hiss death, Minato didn’t actually know for certain whether it was or wasn’t Madara he was fighting and he only had a supsicion that it was. He also never knew about ‘Madara’s’ plan or what he was after.

    All he knew at the time was that a masked shinobi was trying to destroy the village with the nine-tailed fox. He knew that killing the fox would only be a temporary solution to the problem and he knew that this enemy would be dangerous in the future, so he sealed the fox away to both keep it away from the enemy, and to give his son a chance at possibly using that power to defeat that enemy in the future.

    So, to that end, he did succeed in dealing with the Kyuubi.

    That, of course, doesn’t mean he made all the right decisions, that much I would definitely agree with, but then, it isn’t that unnatural for Naruto to defend his father regardless. I don’t think anyone would stand for seeing someone they looked up to being belittled so harshly, regardless of whether or not the perpetraitor of those words was right or wrong.

  85. So basically Naruto loses yet another debate but we’re still supposed to be on his side? The little tard knows he’s putting the world in danger and why is he doing it? Because he couldnt live with himself if his friends died. Fuck you Naruto you pretentious asshole. He’s even more immature now than in Part 1

    Part 1 Naruto: “Imma gonna be Hokage lololol”

    Part 2 Naruto: “Your arguments mean nothing because dead people told me I’m great trollololol”

  86. Damn Kisu Your a devoted “one sided” dude.

    When you have the power Naruto has you can brag as much as you want about saving the world. That’s exactly what Pain did, and he had nowhere near as much devotion as Naruto has.

    Nagato was a coward for doing exactly what you would expect Naruto to do, and that is to stay on the side lines while his friends suffer.

    Nagato had to much of that bad experience and just said “fuck it” and decided to fuck up the world with his mania of world domination.

    If Nagato didn’t lose his way he would have ended up exactly where Naruto is right now and that Is the best path and the most positive one can go on.

    Another dude that brags and stands behind his statements is Sasuke, emo and cocky as he is, he always holds his own in a fight and never backs down, pride might be bad in some peoples opinion, but if you can back that shit up like Sasuke and Naruto can then by all means do so.

    So stop hating on Naruto for being a good guy.

  87. What’s funny is is that Kisu keeps ranting about Naruto but still reads Bleach… I mean, come on… Bleach!

    Furthermore, one could replace Naruto with Nagato in his little rant and end up with the history of Nagato. And that’s a character he actually likes… Biased?! Nah. >__>

    I think all those blank Bleach chapters with an exclamation mark once in a while filling an entire page has messed with Kisu’s head. Now, when he sees pages with characters and those characters actually having lines he becomes confused and starts to hurt himself in confussion…

  88. @Kisu

    Whether Naruto lost the debate or not is simply a matter of perception. In my opinion, Naruto and Bee have the power to greatly affect the outcome of this war. If they were to simply hide away and the alliance was defeated, then hiding was completely pointless, wasn’t it? That course of action also puts the world in danger, possibly even more so than the risk of being captured on the battlefield does.

    But if they join the battle, they at least give the alliance a greater chance at victory, only at the risk of being captured.

    So, one way or another, there is a great risk involved (being captured or losing the war and being captured anyway). Naruto and Bee are simply choosing one risk over another, only their choice involves protecting their friends rather than simply waiting for them to hopefully win while many, or perhaps even everyone dies, which is hardly immature to me.

    At the end of the day, whether or not you are on Naruto’s side will be based on your perception and your perception may differ from others, but I just find it funny that you call Naruto immature, while defending the argument of a hot tempered, egotistical kage who lost his cool and almost killed himself trying to avenge his brother, which, by the way, is hardly different from Naruto trying to protect his friends so pationately.

    Face it, the Raikage is a hypocrite who only thinks of his own immediate self-satisfaction in any given situation. I don’t see why his word has suddenly become your source of wisdom… O_o

  89. Tenrai: i agree with you that it is pointless to have Naruto and Bee in a corner for the whole war, that doesn’t work. Its pointless if the army loses, and it is boring to us readers. But in my opinion this rushing in thing Naruto is doing is just stupid. Naruto and Bee are extremely powerful, and Naruto hasn’t even finished his training yet. They should be the army’s aces in the hole, saved till the army is in real trouble. Running out like this in the middle of a ceasefire/spy warfare thing is almost guaranteed to end badly. They really need to talk things out with the kages and make a plan.

    P.S. Calling the raikage a hypocrite is ridiculous. the circumstances of the raikages vendetta and Naruto’s escape are completely, totally different. Some of the biggest difference being that there wasnt a war going on, The raikages goals were very different and much simpler then Naruto’s, rather then “stop a war and protect everyone… somehow” the raikage’s goal was just “avenge brother, kill Sasuke”. Also, the raikage losing his cool wasn’t risking anything but the raikage. Naruto risking himself here has the potential to cause Assimilation and make all the efforts of the entire army completely pointless.

  90. Ironic how Naruto still loses to the first opponent he encounters after obtaining his super upgrade. Page 22: HOT.

  91. @ Naruto Debate – Seriously the Leaders of the Allaince plus all its members are in agreement (even Tsunade).

    I can agree with Kisu that Naruto is not thinking bigger then himself, if he dies and is captured the war is over and he then spat on all the people that have already died for him, the chances of the war ending would then be in the protection of two people, now Madara could focus his forces to Naruto and Bee making everyone around him a target too.

    In the end although Bee and Naruto are individual in a war you cannot think as such, if all the soldiers only think of themselves and what they want things will fall apart. You need to fight for a greater good and even not fight for a greater good, in the end if Naruto wastes his energy getting to the battle field he wont be much help anyways… He can’t go sage mode and hasn’t even fully learned the beast bomb like Bee could do.. him finishing his training and being unleashed at a later stage would give a better advantage…

    @ Tenrai – Raikage stated he would kill his “bro” but in the end Bee is the better option at the moment since Raikage doesn’t know naruto’s new powers.

    @ Nagato acting the same as Naruto – Well Just cause someone is told they the destined child doesn’t mean you can do wat you want and become the marter,

    Nagato acted behind Akatsuki same way the Hokage acts behind his shinobi, Nagato never forced anyone to fight for him, they joined of their own choice. Plus he sacrifice criminals and not children 😛

  92. Okay. Raikage killing Bee would be less effective than him killing Naruto on the spot. Naruto’s Biju has more chakra, but Naruto has less control, he’s just a giant disaster waiting to happen.

    “If they were to simply hide away and the alliance was defeated, then hiding was completely pointless, wasn’t it?”

    If they go out and get captured then everything is f*cked. Not just the Ninja World, which consists of only 80,000 people, but the entire world. Billions of people! That’s basically what the Raikage was saying.

    “But if they join the battle, they at least give the alliance a greater chance at victory, only at the risk of being captured.”

    That’s Naruto being egotistical. It’s clearly shown this chapter that the Raikage would’ve killed him in seconds had Bee not intervened. That shows Naruto isn’t as almighty as he may think. If Raikage could do that, imagine what Madara could do. Naruto right now is just a high-end Jonin-Kage level ninja and won’t affect things much, especially now that he doesn’t have his Shadow Clones anymore.

    “Face it, the Raikage is a hypocrite who only thinks of his own immediate self-satisfaction in any given situation.”

    Sasuke is a criminal that attacked the World Leaders, killing him would’ve made Raikage a hero. Naruto is putting the entire human race at risk just because he doesn’t believe in his friends’ abilities and can’t let go. Not letting go is why Anakin became Darth Vader. Not letting go is why Oro became Oro. If he had just accepted his parents’ death he would be a very different person.

    “Nagato was a coward for doing exactly what you would expect Naruto to do, and that is to stay on the side lines while his friends suffer.”

    How did he stay on the sidelines? He was always by Yahiko’s side, he protected Konan while he was alive, and protected Amegakure in it’s entirety. Or is this directed to him being crippled? If it is, then I say the Six Paths of Pain is his jutsu and takes as much a toll on him as any jutsu does.

    “Now, when he sees pages with characters and those characters actually having lines he becomes confused and starts to hurt himself in confussion…”

    Have you been spying on me Red? Brb I think I need to search my house for your cams.

  93. @ Pein, how can you say Bee and Naruto are thinking of themselves when there doing the exact opposite, they entered this war to back up there comrades, Naruto and Bee never stated they would engage the enemy on there own and have the rest of the army step aside, no they went there to back up the ones that are fighting for them.

    I for one would think of this scenario the same as the Pain Naruto fight only this time is an All In fight, no one will get mad for not participating.

    This might be a war to protect the Jinchurikis but it’s exactly as Naruto said, when Madara engages in a fight with a statue the size of a bijuu that cannot be stop’ed who can you relay on to keep the status quo. Everybody is doing there part but for the opponents that not even the most powerful shinobi like the kages and there right hand men can stop, Naruto and Bee are the only options.

    If the shinoby army had the means to stop gedo mazo and kabuto’s most powerful shinobi on there own without the aid of Bee an Naruto, then I would have kept my mouth shut and this debate would have been for nothing. But when theres a payer on the board so strong that no one can stop, how can you say the jinchurikis should have just stayed hidden.

    It would have been a slow slaughter that would have lead the shinobi army to there doom.
    The only ones capable of stoping Shinobi like Nagato, Itachi the former kages and Madara are a hand full of people like, Sasuke, Naruto, Bee, Oonogi, Raikage “with two arms” and maybe Gaara that’s about it.

    Whit the forces spread so thin on the battlefield how can they spare time to fight more then one battle, plus Sasuke is not on there side.

    If you ask me this is the best time for Bee and Naruto’s intervention, with the former jinchuriki out there these two will probably learn great new skills from those encounters and will be ready to take on the very best Madara and Kabuto has for them.

  94. @Eugen, Naruto IS being selfish. He’s doing this because he can’t live with himself if people die to protect him. He’s essentially doing it for his own peace of mind. In this situation you need to put the world above yourself. If he really can’t live with himself all he has to do is transfer the Kyubi to a new host then kill himself.

  95. @ kisu, Firs of you misunderstood my previous post
    Nagato was a coward for doing exactly what you would expect Naruto to do, and that is to stay on the side lines while his friends suffer.
    Naruto was staying on the side lines, Nagato retreated in himself and stop’ed believing in himself and his true potential and got manipulated by “madara”.

    As for Naruto’s selfishness, what would you have done in his and Bee’s shoes.
    Would you have stayed back while everyone ended up dead and at the very end when nothing meaningful was left, go and beat the crap out of Madara.

    It’s easy to judge from the outside, but knowing the power he possesses and knowing he can make a difference and help out his loved ones both Naruto and Bee are only leveling out the playing field.
    There not there for the glory or for the kage title or even to stop the war, there there to help there friends and stop the war together.

    It’s clear that both jinchurikis still have a lot to learn but in the end if they have stayed hidden it would have been for nothing and when Madara would have won the war, and trust me at this rate and with gedo mazo and Kabuto he is winning hand down, wouldn’t he come for Naruto and Bee after all was done.

    Madara as we saw is a very calculated man who knows how to take his time doing things right, do you think he will f@ck it all up now when he’s so close.

    Sure the shinobi army has a lot of powerful nin like Kakashi, Oonogi, Darui, Akatsuchi, Kurotsuchi, Gaara and even Choji proved to be really strong, but all that might is sure to be worthless comapred to names such as Itachi, nagato, Muu, former kages, Sasuke, Madara.

    The balance has been broken in the war from the head start the shinobi army had, and say what you will, Naruto and Bee are the only ones that can restore the odds.

  96. @Eugen, that isn’t cowardice. That’s being a realist. I say it frequently, the Naruniverse is a world much more violent than ours, so the only way to make peace there is by forcing people to not fight, that is the conclusion Nagato came to. Naruto is still a naive child. Dude isn’t even 18 yet.

    As for me, I’d sit out the war because I’d know if I went in there I’m potentially dooming the entire world. And like I said, Raikage proved that Naruto isn’t as strong as everyone, Naruto included, thinks. If Raikage could’ve killed him this quickly, imagine what Madara could do.

    I get that the manga is named “Naruto”, but that doesn’t make him right by default bro.

  97. I get what your saying kisu, I respect you and your point of view and I’m not trying to change your mind, but while you say the Narutoverse is more brutal then our own world you should also know by now that the maturing age of these kids was a while ago.

    Ninja like shikamau, choji, ino, sakura, Lee, Sasuke, Neji, Shino they all are very mature for there age, remember almost all the konoha 11, 12 how many they are have had a rough childhood and trust me when I say that is enough to change one’s perception on the world and you grow up fast when you don’t have a choice.

    As for Raikage killing Naruto, what did you expect from the strongest shinobi on the good side, I for one was eager to see what Naruto would have done with his clone, and keep in mind, while Raikage was as fast as he was, Naruto still had time to form the hand seal. I’m not saying he could have dodged Raikage’s finishing blow but Naruto also has the Kyuubi cloak arms witch could have stop’ed Raikage in pretty much the same way Sasuke’s Susano’o did.

  98. @ Eugen – I think Naruto is selfish cause he cannot bare the pain of loosing those close to him, unlike Nagato he never had to see his friends die in battle or have to choose between them. (Pain Invasion he only heard of later)

    In the end most of us thought a lot more of the Summons but after a few battles we seen the alliance can hold its own, if you look at the summons so far not one battle has gone the way of Kabuto, even the Kin Gin Bro’s where beaten easily and they where part of the team to take down the 2nd Hokage… Sasori/Deidara, guys who could wipe out nations in there prime.

    I think wat you forgetting is only Soldier/Ninja’s are being sacrificed now, but Naruto (like kisu said) is endangering everyone inbetween too.

  99. @ Pein, I guess, to each his own right. I understand exactly what you and Kisu are talking about, but my conception is of a different view then yours, that’s all. All I feel strong about in this debate is the Naruto=selfish part other then that it all makes sense, your points as well as mine.

    As for the summons, they were knocked out a bit to easy but that doesn’t mean it’s gonna go smoothly with the rest of them.

    So far only the Kin Jim Kyuubi brother went full power of all the summons and probably so did the ones Kakashi was fighting, Zabuza ands the mist swordsman and the kekegenkai people.

    But Deidara lost his chance to self explode witch would have killed everyone there, so did Sasori lost his shot to use his 1000 puppets. Many summons didn’t go all out even if they knew they would be alright.

    And the ones that were from konoha or just good guys in the past just gave pointers to the army on how to stop them, like Dan and Asuma and Hizashi or Hiashi who ever Neji’s dad is.

    Kakuzu had already been seen at his best so that would have been a waste of panel focusing on his fight.

    The truely important fights I want to see are:
    Gaara and Oonogi vs the former Kages
    Kakashi finishing of the Mist swordsman
    Bee and Naruto vs former Jinchuriki
    Sasuke vs Itachi and Nagato.
    and Dan with his ghost tech against Tsunade.

    Other then that there was a shinobi summon from the hidden cloud with a kekegenkai we didn’t get to see in a fight.
    And he was in the Inheritors of the will of fire movie, the one that was supposed to have the incredible speed technique, I really want to see that dude in action against Naruto or the raikage.

  100. One more thing, I’m actually glad this debate came up, because WRA has been a bit empty as of late,and we were and are in need of a good debate now a days.

  101. @Kisu: “That’s Naruto being egotistical. It’s clearly shown this chapter that the Raikage would’ve killed him in seconds had Bee not intervened. That shows Naruto isn’t as almighty as he may think. If Raikage could do that, imagine what Madara could do.”

    Yes, especially considering the fact that Naruto wasn’t trying to fight the raikage in the first place, but only trying to get past him, while the Raikage was aiming to kill almost from the beggining. And aslo considering the fact that all Bee had to do, was hold his one good arm, and the raikage was rendered utterly helpless. So its clear to see Naruto never stood a chance. <_<

    "Sasuke is a criminal that attacked the World Leaders, killing him would’ve made Raikage a hero. Naruto is putting the entire human race at risk just because he doesn’t believe in his friends’ abilities and can’t let go. Not letting go is why Anakin became Darth Vader. Not letting go is why Oro became Oro. If he had just accepted his parents’ death he would be a very different person."

    Not letting go eh? If it were as easy to let go as you make it seem to be, Madara wouldnt be throwing this war in the first place. He would have let his desire for revenge go. So would Sasuke. So would Oro. There would be no naruto story in this case. So why bash naruto when he is only doing the exact same thing that everyone else does, only his reasons for doing so are good?

    Need i remind you that in Starwas, princess Lea and Luke Skywalker didnt sit idly by while the rebellion tried to fight against the empire. If they did, the rebellion would have lost, and Darth Vader would still be rulling the galaxy with an iron fist.

    So what if Naruto and Bee get caught. Atleast there are still other ninja there afterward for there to be some hope left. And who is to say they get caught in the first place. After all you have seen Naruto do, you still underestimate him?

    But lets say they dont join, and the good guys loose all there lives, and then Naruto and bee are captured. That would be even worse, seeing how no one is left to try and even stop madara. Either way, it will end Badly. So why not go all out and give the rebellion a fair fighting chance?

    Oh thats right, because we could possibly loose this war faster.

    So instead, lets do nothing at all and loose that way. <_<

  102. It seems everyone is under the impression that two possibly Kage level ninja can turn the tide of the entire war by themselves. Yes I agree. The Alliance was winning before, but if Bee and Naruto get in they’ll be captured and turn the tide in Madara’s favor. I mean, come on guys, for plot reasons they’ll both definitely be captured once they get on the battlefield.

  103. @ Eugen – Yeah we needed a epic debate @_@

    I don’t think Naruto is outright selfish but naive and I think wat me and Kisu and Taka are saying is, “why are people thinking this is heroic” when its in the most sesible terms seems illogical

    If your father gave you a priceless watch irriplaceable you would want to wear it everyday. but If you know you going to a place where there is a high crime rate you wont just walk around showing it off to everyone or take it off and leave it where someone can grab it, you keep a wallet in your pocket etc etc.

    Also if your family comes together and one of your family members need money for a doctors thing or what ever, if your family works hard and does everything to get that money, but you decide its not right for them to work hard so you go and bet all of it on a roulette number, is it worth the risk if you loose you loose everything. Is it fair for you to be the one to take that gamble for everyone?

  104. The Incredible Marksman long time no post, glad to see you again Marks. @ your post, it’s pretty much the same opinion I have in this debate. But well spoken words count much more and ”So why not go all out and give the rebellion a fair fighting chance?” that statement pretty much summed it all up in my opinion.

    The one thing I liked most in the chapter was the fact that Naruto could not only keep up whit the Raikage, he was talking down to him as if he was slower then him.
    Sasuke with the magekyo had problems even seeing him let alone fight on par with him. So that means Naruto now is faster then Sasuke was at the kage summit.

  105. MARKS IS ALIVE !!!! THE ONE CHAPTER WE DONT TALK ABOUT KAKASHI’S RAMAPGE HE APPEARS WONDER IF ITS RELATED

    AWE MARKS

  106. @ Kisu – I think me and you have more faith in the entire naruto verse then anyone else 😛 😉

  107. Again, I’m saying Naruto and Bee aren’t there to fight and take all the risks, That would be reckless and immature of them, there in the fight to restore the balance.

    And since you guys like the analogy i’ll say it like this, would you play blackjack if you knew you’d lose or will you play it if you know how to count cards. That’s what Naruto and Bee are right now a cheat for the alliance just like madara is and gedo mazo.

    Just like I said, if the shinobi alliance had the ninja capable of stopping Madara and Kabuto and Sasuke on there own then this discussion would have no meaning and Naruto would indeed be selfish for joining the fight but since they don’t have anyone that powerful on there side it’s only natural they take the fight to Madara on there own.

  108. The funny thing is that if the Kages didn’t agree for the jinchurikis to be hidden we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. It’s all thanks to that damn Gaara and his new Flower Power politics. I was a fan of his, back when he was a vicious murderer, at least he was entertaining. If you ask me he’s gone too soft since becoming the Kazekages.

  109. @ eugen – funny thing about gambling, even if you can cheat over all the house will win

    In Black Jack you get a point where you unsure when to hit or when to stay, usually round 15/16 this is a high number hitting may mean you bust but if you hit a 6 or a 5 you almost garenteed a win.

    A focused military is a lot more effective then a wild goose chase, if you looking for something and you know its in your car then you wont waste time looking in the house… Now Madara has found the point to target, making it so much easier… its like in chess, you will eliminate peices but eventually you go directly for the king and you kill enough of the others players peices so he can no longer defend his king.

    lol Gaara did become soft… but I want to see him against his dad, if that brings it back 😛

    The thing is you do not play your big hand until the end 😛

  110. I just thought of something, wouldn’t it be crazy if Bee had a doujutsu under those glasses, we never saw him without them so it would be possible for him to have had and edge when he was chosen to be Raikage’s right hand man. He wasn’t the host back then so it’s possible he had something up his sleeves the whole time.

  111. @Marks, I didn’t see your post. Sorry dude.

    “Yes, especially considering the fact that Naruto wasn’t trying to fight the raikage in the first place, but only trying to get past him, while the Raikage was aiming to kill almost from the beggining.”

    The Raikage at the beginning told them to go back. He then blocked NAruto because he wouldn’t listen. But then when he saw how adamant Naruto was on going to war to put the entire world in danger he decided killing him would be the best move. We were in Naruto’s head the whole time and not once did he say anything about holding back.

    “Not letting go eh? If it were as easy to let go as you make it seem to be, Madara wouldnt be throwing this war in the first place.”

    Uhm…Madara’s the bad guy. He’s NOT SUPPOSED to let go.

    “Need i remind you that in Starwas, princess Lea and Luke Skywalker didnt sit idly by while the rebellion tried to fight against the empire.”

    They weren’t part of the Empire’s plan. The Empire didn’t need them to power up the Death Star. They were just soldiers in an army, if you will. Them being there would not have any negative effects on the tide of the war. Naruto and Bee being on the battlefield is basically showing the entire world a gigantic 17 tails middle finger.

    “So what if Naruto and Bee get caught. Atleast there are still other ninja there afterward for there to be some hope left”

    No. If they get caught the Moons Eye Plan will eliminate free will. Madara would have won. The entire world would be in his palm and no one would be able to oppose him at all. There would be no hope left.

    “But lets say they dont join, and the good guys loose all there lives, and then Naruto and bee are captured.”

    Come on Marks, everything is going in the good guys’ favor. They’re dominating. Bee and Naruto aren’t needed. Really, Naruto’s the only problem here. All Bee is doing is looking out for him.

  112. I think one of the most important pieces to take away from this chapter is the Raikage’s statement that “Now that Minato’s dead, there is no faster shinobi than himself…”.

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/541/8

    That’s the proof point. Naruto just needs to show Raikage that he’s as fast or faster than Minato (maybe with a little thrashing on the side), and Raikage will believe that Naruto can save the world.

    Hm, does Raikage have a clue that Naruto has both Frog Sage and So6P?

  113. @arpotu, this is a more accurate translation

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/93368877/10

    This with Shi’s statement way back in the Sasuke fight means their speeds are fairly equal.

  114. @ Arpotu, I think that in some cases the link’s translation that you provided is better in some parts in others mangastream’s is more accurate but what I licked about is was the fact that it had more panels on page 9, at mangastream I didn’t see that part where Naruto says “don’t talk about my dad”.

    @ kisu, it really doesn’t matter what Shi said back then, this is the Raikage’s own testament and he’s the best one to judge if Minato was indeed slower or as it turns out faster then he is.

    So what Arpotu said could indeed be the key factor for Naruto to prove himself whit a faster speed then the Raikage.

    I’m guessing that A is gonna read Bee’s mind while bumping fists and he’s see for himself what Bee saw in Naruto’s training, the type of person he really is and probably choose to let them pass if Naruto can match him either in speed or power.

    Whatever the outcome I really want to see Naruto gaining a bit of extra experience from this fight.

  115. ups my bad, the pannels are there at mangastream also, I just didn’t see the scroll bar :))

  116. “this is the Raikage’s own testament ”

    Click the better translation I posted bro.

  117. “I am the fastest shinobi alive, now that the fourth hokage has passed away.”

    Exactly what I said, He’s the actual fastest shinobi, but when Yondaime was alive Raikage was slower. The death of the 4th hokage implies that the Raikage is the current fastest ninja ergo when Minato was alive he was faster then A.

    That’s from your link above Kisu, the statement Raikage made.

  118. I have a bit of a trivial question, is kage bunshin, a yin or yang type of jutsu since it uses shadows unlike the other clone types most use like mizubunshin, raibunshin, etc.

    So those that mean Naruto can use two elements without even knowing, plus he’s been using kage bunshin from the start of the story so technically he’s already mastered it.
    I’m guessing someone would have pointed this out a lot earlier but it sort of made me think about it a lot as of late.

  119. “I am the fastest shinobi alive, now that the fourth hokage has passed away.”

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

    That plus Shi’s statement means they were fairly equal. If two people are 100 years old and one of them dies, then the other can say:

    “I am the oldest man alive, now that the other guy has passed away.”

    That’s the point I’m trying to make.

  120. @ Kisu, yes that’s true but it also leaves room for interpretation and doubt to witch one it really was.
    Was Raikage almost the same speed as Minato, or was Minato faster.

    Also keep in mind Minato was a very very fast guy doing the body flicker witch is in direct proportion to Raikage’s speed, bet when he did FTG he was even faster.

    So the question now is, was Raigake as fast as Minato’s body flicker, or was he almost as fast as the Flying Thunder God.

    If it’s the first option then Minato was way faster with the FTG then Raikage.

  121. One more testament to this is the fact that Raikage wasn’t fast enough to lay a blow on Madara while Minato owned him completely.
    And if it were not for the kyuubi’s rampage Minato would have finished of Madara then and there.

  122. @Eugen, but you’re forgetting it wasn’t due to his speed that he hit Madara. IT was because he outplayed him. Raikage went in for a full frontal attack from the get go.

  123. @Pein and Kisu

    Alrighty, firstly, about Naruto being beaten by the Raikage, we have no evidence to actually show that the raikage would have won his battle with Naruto, because they never actually went ahead with it, thanks to Bee.

    Everyone is just assuming that A would have won.

    Secondly, you guys always defend Nagato’s actions and condemn Naruto’s, but I would bet you $1000 that if it were Nagato and his friends were in danger, he would have done the exact same thing. Hell, the only reason he started killing people in the thousands was because of the death of one of his friends. I don’t see why that kind of action is praised while an action of compassion is shunned.

    Let’s see, we praise a mass murderer and shun someone who just wants to protect the world at his own cost and say that it is somehow selfish. There’s a great moral decision right there, don’t you think? (Sarcasm).

    I really don’t get how wanting to bear the burden of hatred so no-one else has to is selfish (Naruto), but killing thousands of innocents to fulfill your own ambition is seen as wise and intelligent (Pein).

    I seriously think there is something wrong with this whole picture. You two are being far too emo for your own good. You know somethings wrong when people try to justify genocide while condemning love. <__<

    *Hugs a tree just to annoy Kisu* Muahahahaha!!!! @____@

  124. Tenrai: easy there! Don’t confuse me with kisu, i never said that Nagato was better then Naruto morally. I only praise the fact that he did have a plan of some sort. Certainly Nagato killed a lot of people, and no, i dont think that deserves praise. im criticizing Naruto’s ACTIONS, not his moral intent. Although there can be good things about charging in instead of over thinking, it gets old. And it has gotten really old by this point. I have seen Naruto do the stupid thing for so long and still get away with it, that at this point id really like him to think for once and do something halfway smart. Make a plan for once. You can’t take on the task of ending a cycle of war and stopping a war with just determination and guts.

    “Secondly, you guys always defend Nagato’s actions and condemn Naruto’s, but I would bet you $1000 that if it were Nagato and his friends were in danger, he would have done the exact same thing.”

    Again, i don’t think Nagato’s actions were right or morally sound. He was a murderer, though he did undo his murders in the end, other then Jiriya and that is not ok. But don’t exaggerate. other then Hanzo and Jiriya, we never saw Pain killing many people, certainly not by the “thousands”. I defend Nagato/Pain because he was a pretty awesome character, not because he was a saint.

    But anyway, Nagato is a foil to Naruto, and what you seem to have missed is that Nagato’s friends were in danger, and in that moment Nagato did a reckless, desperate thing, similar to what Naruto is doing now. He summoned that demon statue to save him even though he knew it was dangerous. The result was that he became a weak, damaged, cripple for the rest of his life. being reckless wasn’t such a good move then was it?

  125. @Takashid

    My comment was adressed to Pein and Kisu, not to you, so I don’t know why you thought I was comparing you to anyone. Lol.

    And I agree that Nagato made the same rash decisions Naruto is making now, only his actions based on them were completely different. Nagato destroyed his own body, while Naruto is making his stronger. Nagato chose a path of war and death while Naruto chose to protect. You can’t compare the results of their choices as being anything similar to one another. I was only making an example of how individuals act based on feelings.

    Let’s be fair here, not everyone was against Naruto’s current reasoning for entering the war. Both Tsunade and the Tsuchikage were also in favor of using Naruto and Bee to win the war, reasoning that they only had one chance to win and if they failed, hiding the Jinchuuriki would have been pointless anyway. It is perfectly rational reasoning, just like hiding them is also perfectly rational in its own way as well.

    Neither side is wrong, because both have great risks and thus, both are flawed choices. The only differences between them are factors based on moral values, more so than flawed rational.

    Let’s take the Raikage, for example. If you are honest about his actions, then you will see that he isn’t really basing his decisions solely on what is best for the alliance. He is only doing what suits his own agenda, and that is to protect Bee. We have proof of this in the fact that he is only trying to kill Naruto, even though Bee offered his own life in exchange to let Naruto enter the war.

    If the Raikage acted purely in the interests of winning the war, he would have killed Bee for two reasons. One, it would give him access to another powerful Jinchuuriki to help turn the tide of battle at no risk, because we know Naruto cannot have his bijuu extracted until the 8-tails is extracted first, and secondly, he would be denying the enemy a necessary piece to his plan. A two fold blow that would work greatly in the aliance’s favor.

    Yet, the raikage is only after Naruto, when we know that even if Naruto dies, Bee can still have his Bijuu extracted without destroying the balance of the summoning statue and all Madara would have to do is wait until the Kyuubi resurects before completing his plan, which by then, he would have access to even more power thanks to the Hachibi.

    Let’s also not forget that Madara already has the ginkin brothers, so it isn’t even certain that he needs Naruto anymore at all. The Raikage knows this as well and yet he is STILL choosing to kill Naruto over Bee.

    At the end of the day, I am not trying to say that Naruto is making a flawless decision. But I am not going to condemn him for a decision that is no less flawed than any other the alliance has made so far either. The only reason I am debating is because I find it unfair to only target and bash Naruto’s decisions and not anyone else’s when we can clearly see many other characters are doing the same thing he is. Why is no-one bashing Bee? Or the Raikage? Why is no-one bashing Tsunade or the Tsuchikage? What about Nagato, Jiraiya, Minato, Kushina, Fukusaku, the toad sage and everyone else who put this burden on Naruto in the first place and who made him believe he had to accept this burden as the destined child? Why aren’t they put on the firing line when they are the ones who made Naruto believe that he was the only one who could change the world?

    Can you really blame Naruto for doing what everyone made him feel he was born to do? Everyone relied on him too much and everyone put too much on his shoulders, including his own teammates, and then we blame him for his actions and beliefs even though they were drilled into him from everyone else?

    That just doesn’t make sense to me. If everyone wants to flame Naruto for his beliefs, that’s fine, but at least try to be fair and reasonable about it, that’s all I am getting to here. Using the words of a hypocryte (the raikage, for example) to bash Naruto when the raikage himself is just as flawed, is one of those actions I will always debate against, purely because it is unfair.

    And that’s me. Done and dusted. <___<

  126. Tenrai: opps. my bad there 😛
    my example with Nagato was simply showing how acting rashly and charging in recklessly screwed him up really bad. kinda like how naruto charging in could screw the world over pretty bad.

    anyway, as far as Naruto goes, i dont buy your thing there about not blaming naruto for what he is doing. Sure, many of the people who have influenced him could be blamed for somehow “causing this”, but in the end Naruto is the one who makes his own choices and needs to be responsible for them.

    Honestly im tired of this debate anyway. the main reason i personally am getting annoyed here is because this is all so god damned boring. I mean. christ, its so obvious. Obviously Naruto will be allowed to pass, after the raikage has a flashback that reminds him that he needs to shut up and obey kishi (and he loves his brother, sees the error of his ways, blah, blah, blah).

    Then, Naruto will charge onto the battlefield, probably after saying hi to Sakura and the other side characters. (also his magic new chakra sensor will probably root out all the zetsu spies) Eventually, i would bet 10$ that he will fight itachi and Pain, since they have had a few scenes showing them nearby. And eventually after lots of fights, Naruto WILL get caught by Madara or Sasuke and drained/nearly drained/whatever is dramatic enough to get everyone shouting “Naruto!” and acting worried.
    oh and Sasuke will turn good. just cause. Can’t predict the details, but overall this entire storyline feels dull and obvious. Nothing really new has appeared here, and most of the battles have not been memorable. i realize that this is just my opinion, so i dont mind if you disagree, but i wonder if any of you get what i mean?

  127. @ Taka – hahaha yeah obvious plot is obvious…

    @ Tenrai – I understand the contradiction of Naruto and Nagato fans one can almost say that they so similar its hard to tell the difference, but in the end, Pain was a villain and claiming his actions should be seen as equal to Naruto is wrong, I like Pain’s character cause he was the first one to challenge the established belief that I am good and others must be bad, he was the first to show naruto that he cannot just hide behind the hero mantel forever, in the end his “Heroic Actions” would lead to the cycle of hate continue

    “I see… That is noble of you. That is justice indeed. However… My family…My friends… My village… They suffered the same fate as this village by you ninjas of Konoha. How is it fair to allow only you people to preach about peace and justice?”

    that must be the greatest line in Naruto history! How is it fair that Sasuke’s Family is murdered and when he wants “justice” for it he is killed. Why is it only Naruto that is allowed to stop war? Why can’t Madara stop it with his plan? I mean Naruto knows he must kill Sasuke and MAdara to achieve his goal also Zetsu etc so why is it fair he can attack under the gaize of peace while Madara is doing the “same” and he is the Villain…

    Anyway not my point at the moment, Naruto is acting so he wont feel the Pain of loss again, he can’t stand it but he acts as a hypocrit since if he dies everyone will loose everything,

    I am not talking about the Raikage’s actions, he is the appointed leader and the leaders had agreed, why does naruto get to choose against it? If Bee has mastered control of his Bijuu then he is the better option in the Raikage’s eyes, he still stated that he would kill him if needed to.

    I find it ironic that people just believe Naruto must always be right but he wants to stop a war by rushing into battle and doing what? Attacking killing? or will he surrender and die and the world ends anyways… Remember the beginning of Naruto where Sakura was asked kill Naruto or I kill Sasuke (Kakashi)

    This is that sort of situation, one that Naruto obviously doesn’t know how to deal with, he may say neither and both will end up dead.

    Its fustrating seeing that, I almost want Naruto to go through the same situation Nagato was in, being helpless as his closest friends where killed and in the end being his own choice but Naruto can’t do it cause he is so afraid of Pain that he will do anything to avoid it, even put the entire world in danger

  128. @Takashid, anyone that can’t figure out the plot by now needs to go brush up on their shonen mangas lol. The only genuine surprise for me would be if Sasuke DOESNT turn good again.

  129. kisu: yeah but the fact that its so obvious makes it really damn boring. just, come on kishi do something unexpected. In One Piece, which is also a shonen, its not this predictable. Oda constantly does the unexpected and goes against the cliches. This makes the story more interesting because we are never sure what will happen next. With Naruto its just boring now.

  130. About debate,

    @ Kisu and Pein,
    You seem to forget one very important fact. Madara is in possession of the chakra of all Tailed Beasts. Therefor, Naruto (and Bee’s) actions are meaningless. Madara is becoming the Juubi Jinchuuriki as A and Naruto speak. He will soon kickstart his moons eye plan and everyone not immune to genjutsu will instantly switch to Madara’s side.
    Madara couldn’t care less whether Naruto is killed, hides or jumps into the battlefield at this stage.

    So, A holding back Naruto and Bee is in fact more off an advantage to Madara than Naruto’s ‘selfishness’.

  131. Okay Baron, a tentacle and some Kyubi meat would revive the Jubi at full power. That makes a whole lot of sense if you ask me

  132. @Takashid

    I understand what you are saying, but that doesn’t mean I agree with you. Lol.

    In any case, from what I see in the comments now, it looks like the argument now is that the plot is too obvious. So, we’ve gone from Naruto bashing to simply being discontent with the plot.

    If that is the case, then there’s nothing to say about it really, because that is purely a matter of taste.

    However, I wouldn’t be so quick to jump to conclusions just yet as to how this story will play out. It may happen just the way you predict, as cliched as all hell, but at the same time, Kishi may surprise us with a twist. Why not give him the benifit of the doubt until he confirms your fears or otherwise?

    One thing we need to consider is that the arguments people are bringing up here, is the same as some of the arguments Kishi brings up in the manga. He has used both the Kyuubi and the Raikage to act as the realists in the same manner many are doing here right now. That means he must have already thought of how idealistic the notion of peace sounds and how unrealistic the notion of a happy, perfect ending is, because his characters are already showing those thoughts and ideals in contrast to those of Naruto’s.

    That means he must be thinking about it at least on some level or another. It may also mean he has also already thought of how to deal with it, or he has a twist up his sleeve. This, of course, is just an assumption on my part, just as you have assumed you can already predict the cliched outcome of this story, but to be honest, I just don’t see a point in crying over spilled milk when it hasn’t even been spilled yet.

    Kishi will mess up sometimes. Hell, even I can admit that this arc hasn’t been that great so far, besides a few chapters I really enjoyed. But at the end of the day, he’s human and he also deserves a chance to get things right. He’s given us a lot of good work over the past many years, but he won’t be perfect all the time. I just think people are going too far with the flaming lately, that’s all.

    If Kisu can still have hope for Bleach, then I don’t see why we can’t have hope for Naruto, instead of just assuming the worst will happen. How about we hope for the best for once?

  133. Not at full power. But still enough for Madara to start his Moon’s eye plan and become the most powerful Jinchuuriki around.

    Remember Naruto also has only half the Kyuubi’s chakra sealed inside him and he’s still the most powerful Jinchuuriki around.

  134. @Kisu

    It’s quite certain that the Juubi won’t be resurected at full power, that much is obvious, but it doesn’t change the fact that Madara clearly feels like he has been pushed into a corner, so he is going to try resurect the Juubi regardless.

    Even if it isn’t at full power though, it will still be more powerful than any force on earth, and that likely includes the Hachibi and Kyuubi. At the end of the day, Naruto and Bee will be needed to win this war and if they don’t join the fray now, it’s as good as over for them anyway.

  135. I don’t think its because the plot is boring and repetitive, I just think that the entire Naruto fan base is putting their belief in a 16 year old boy and immediately belief everything he does, can barely find anything that people will be like “yeah that is where Naruto stuffed up” cause either theres an excuse made or people just think cause he the hero he is right…

  136. Any bets on whether So6P will come visit Naruto during his fight with Madara (in the same light as Minato and his Kushina?

    After all, I fully expect Madara to get his Moon’s Eye Plan off the ground (no pun intended), and Naruto (and Sasuke, after dark zetzu is removed) will need to defeat him to cancel the Jitsu.

    Naruto will need some So6P training – who better to give him the training than the original So6P (or LOL maybe a timeskip Madara)?

    And, with Sasuke helping to defeat Madara (and only really killed Danzo), he will no longer be a missing nin. Naruto, with Sasuke by his side, will be welcomed with flowers and candy, end of series, roll credits 🙂

  137. Hey fellers, i need some clarification on an event that occurred with Madara and Naruto.

    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v49/c462/14.html

    He says that, that was the second time they had met. What does meeting signify? The 2nd time he’s seen him? If that’s the case then didn’t he mean that he met Naruto three times? Once when he held the baby hostage, the 2nd when he was “acting” like Tobi, and that chapter being the third?

  138. @ the laughing wise man, 1st off we haven’t seen you in a long time, welcome back.

    About there encounters, that is interesting, as you said the met 3 times as far as till that point in the manga.
    The first when he was a baby, 2nd when Itachi was fighting Sasuke, and the Konoha squad came to the rescue, and finally that time at the lodge in your link.

    So the fact of the matter is as following: Either Tobi was referring to personal meetings and he kept out the fact that he was there when Naruto was born due to the plot of the manga, this to later be reveled in the future chapters ( so kishi held that info back for his plot ).

    Or the man that tried to kill naruto at birth was someone else either then Tobi. But just like many of us think Tobi and Madara switched places at some point in time, I for one think that the guy that fought Minato 16 years ago was indeed the same one (Tobi) that is the present antagonist. The only thing that makes me think it’s the same person is the thing gushing out of Tobi after he was hit by Minato’s rassengan was the same as the zetsu substance Tobi presently uses to fix his arms and limbs.

    But in the Kisame flashback I think that was the real Madara back then due to the original hair style and the way he looks, witch is a little different then the actual tobi.

  139. @ Eugen “Either Tobi was referring to personal meetings and he kept out the fact that he was there when Naruto was born due to the plot of the manga, this to later be reveled in the future chapters ( so kishi held that info back for his plot ).”

    I was thinking the same thing, but his father told him about Madara being present at the birth during Naruto’s fight with Pain. That battle was before this meeting that I mentioned. Im still suspicious that this person really is Madara. This suspicion stems from the infamous coffin that Kabut-oro had in his possession.

  140. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/28815369/1

    Naruto’s out early!! 😀

  141. Once again Kisu was right. A is faster than Minato. Minato is just better at teleporting. That’s akin to saying Madara is faster than A.

    Cool chapter, but clichéd as fuck. I was waiting for the previous Jinchuriki to say “all he needs is love” but at least Kishi had enough decency not to make it so blatant.

  142. Dude, I completely forgot about Bee. At 10 years old he was killing that many ninja by himself?!

  143. @ Kisu, How did you figure A was faster then Minato, just because Minato was caught by surprise by A doesn’t mean A is faster. Minato evaded A when he was actually touching Minato’s nose with his fist and after that Minato had time to throw a kunai at A, teleported there and almost killed him if not for Bee saving his life. Not only that, the blow form Minato’s kunai was so powerful it cut through the hachibi’s tentacle witch is pretty damn hard.
    If A was faster then Minato he should have had enough time not only to see Minato coming for a counter strike but to stop his kunai as well.

    @ chapter, I enjoyed it more then usual thanks to the former kuno jinchuriki. The guy was really smart and to me he looked like a very powerful guy, the only thing that bothered me about him was the fact that unlike his uncle and who ever was the jinchuriki before him he actually found out the secret to being a perfect jinchuriki, he knew about the fact that he need to fill his heart with something of great meaning to him, like love, friendship, etc. But he didn’t do so, or he couldn’t find what was needed for him, either way, knowing that and not achieving perfect symbiosis with his bijuu was disappointing.

    On the other hand this shows that Kumo is a way better village then the Leaf, how can the Sandaime be hokage for so long a part of Naruto’s life and not teach him these things directly, sure the old man tried to make Naruto feel as good as he could in spite of all the villagers resentment towards Naruto. But neither Hiruzen nor Kakashi or even Jirayia knew hot to train Naruto to become a proper Jinchuriki.

    The messed up thing is Mito actually taught Kushina how to be a good jinchuriki and the secret to having a heart filled with love to be able to resist the Kyuubi’s evil aura.
    What happened to that valuable piece of information, apart from the training method Bee used on Naruto witch could have been inaccessible for konoha, the fact that they knew how a jinchiriki should be properly raised and did nothing of the sort makes me think Konoha feels a little bit to optimistic in it’s chances in war without a jinchuriki on there side.

    Anyway, I enjoyed seeing the young Bee kick ass and from Raikage’s praise it would seem he thinks Bee would have, if not already, surpass him in the future.

    More for later. Check out Bleach if you didn’t get a chance.

  144. @ Kisu,

    At their speeds it’s more a matter of who makes the first move. Both A and Minato don’t have a sharingan so their “normal” eyesight probably can’t keep up with their own speed.
    Much like Sasuke wasn’t able to see Kyuubi Chakra Naruto with his two tomoe sharingan.
    We’ve seen A attack Minato where Minato could react just in time and we’ve seen Minato grab Naruto mid air without even Madara being able to follow it.
    Off course Madara knew Minato was fast so he strapped exploding tags to Naruto.

    In any case. I’d say Minato and A are quite even in “normal” speed. Minato, off course, wins hands down with Hiraishin though.

  145. Just had an interesting discussion with a coworker. This is along the lines of “Naruto gets all the tailed beasts at the end”.

    Since Naruto hung with each of the Jinchuriki before their death, would the tailed beasts recognize Naruto? Would that alone cause Madara to lose control of those beasts (if they chose to follow Naruto rather than Madara)?

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