Naruto Manga 479 Breakdown and 480 Spoiler Discussion: The Eyes Have It…Demotivational Poster Included!!!!

Read the manga:  http://www.mangashare.com

Author’s comment:  Just a word on the manga and the timing of this breakdown.  For those of you who tried to be helpful and advise me on mangashare versus onemanga, thanks.  I honestly do appreciate comments and feedback.  However, having a bunch of people get on the bandwagon and say the same thing repeatedly sucks as I often feel ganged up on.  Regardless, I got the message.  I know it wasn’t the intent to do the “verbal gangbang” and I have taken no offense, k?  The reason I stick with onemanga is simple:  JPG vs PNG.  The manga pages I download off of mangashare are PNG; Onemanga, JPG.   I HATE PNGs – period.  I always have had trouble with them appearing on blogs, online albums  and, in general, I find them a pain to deal with.  Onemanga has JPGs which are a bit more standard and are easier for me to work with.  I don’t have the fancy video equipment and coloring/editing software that many of you do so I work with what is easiest for me – author’s choice.  We can debate quality and the like in chat but, just so you know, I typically will follow Onemanga and not mangashare.  I only did mangashare this time as the manga was out and no one was looking at what I wrote for 478.  *guilt, guilt* 🙂

And, FYI:  when several people say the same thing it means only one thing:  you aren’t reading the posts carefully.  To be totally honest, it has become a major pet peeve of mine – this is due to the fact that I am now tainted as a “Mom.”  However, I had to tell you guys.  As my time, and yours, is valuable, I just don’t like repeating the same thing a dozen times.  It’s bad enough I have to do that for my kids.  Ugh!  So, please read the string before you post.  99.9% of you do.  It is only on occasions like this where it I see it. 

So, PLEASE don’t take any of the above personally, k?  This is just another Public Service Announcement from TsunadesTwin…If you are offended by anything I’ve said here, I’d advise you to look at the pic immediately below:

Remember "One finger is all I need...?" 😛

Soooooo…onward and downward.

Karin has just earned her paycheck.  Much like how Kakashi figured out Pain’s weakness (the now-famous five second power up time), Karin has now determined Danzou’s weakness…and what those creepy eyes have to do with it all.

This is Penny (TsunadesTwin) with the latest manga breakdown and there was TONS of action in this week’s chapter, simply titled, “Izanagi”; far more than I remember of late.  This puts the Killer Bee vs Kisame bout to shame!  It may not even be possible to cover all the action but, I will do my best.

Izanagi, the forbidden dojutsu, is finally explained by Madara, who moderates thoughout much of this chapter.  Maybe we should have just skipped the rest of the chapter as Madara pretty much tells us everything we need to know about this bizarre jutsu.  When I wrote the breakdown for 478, I had two hypotheses with 1)  creating ghosting images that result in the death of the caster or 2) a powerful genjutsu that results in the target’s jutsu coming back on them and resulting in death of the caster.  It now seems that this dojutsu performs a bit of both – a genjutsu that creates images that can fool the opponent but it also makes things tough for the caster, also.   Although it may not create immediate death, it does have two horrendous side effects:  blindness in the eye used, along with taxing the body’s resources that can lead to death.  Man, this is one nasty jutsu.  Thank goodness all I get from stretching my eyes to the limit is a migraine headache…

Something about this arm doesn't sit well with me.

Like I said, Karin earns her paycheck in this chapter.  She’s useful, guys!  Beginnning with last chapter, she began to watch Danzou’s movements and actions very very carefully.  Slowly she analyzed the actions and watched the eyes on Danzou’s arm – one or several of the eyes would close and that would coincide with a massive drop in Danzo’s chakra level.  After a lot of careful observation – and managing to avoid injury in the process – she figured it all out much like Kakashi figured out the five second lag for Pain.  The eyes allow Danzo to continue to use Izanagi repeatedly.  Once he uses one eye, he must recharge his chakra before he can use Izanagi again.  The process repeats until he runs out of Sharingans.  No wonder he kept a stockpile of eyes!  Even more impressive, like the Pain Shinra Tensei jutsu, there is a time limit to his jutsu – 60 seconds.  No more, no less.  After sixty seconds, an eye closes forever.  Hmmmmm…a strategy to counter this…?

Funny, doesn't this look a lot like Pain's five second lag?

Madara further explains the purpose of the jutsu:  to have the user have total control over their reality.  Objects can be used to their advantage and any injuries can be eliminated or merely turned into a dream for the opponent.  I began to wonder why Danzo was going to this extreme given his eye stockpile was limited.  Is there something else that he has to back Izanagi up, like Karin suggests? (Personally, the thought of having eyes elsewhere didn’t sound good to me…)

Sasuke, for his part, shows the influence (despite all his attempts to hide it) of Naruto in his most humorous moment in the fight.  Humor???  Well, I don’t think Sasuke meant to be humorous but it provided a great laugh for me.  He took a play right out of Naruto’s Ninja Toolkit:  he pulled a bait-and-switch on Danzo forcing Danzo to reveal information on Izanagi.  Oh, does this piss Danzo off!  And, Sasuke, you actually showed a bit of shinobi genius.

For as obnoxious as you think Naruto is, you certainly sound like Naruto here. Nothing like getting the opponent pissed off at you!

And, what about Danzo?  Well, our old man windbag is trying his best to hold back the Sasuke/Susanoo dynamic duo but is finding that combination is rather powerful.  This is forcing him to expend chakra and “use” his eye stockpile on repeated attempts on Izanagi.  So, he bobs, he weaves, he creates illusions.  Hmmmm…makes me wonder what he was prior to his reconstructive surgery.  I know he was wind-natured but…he couldn’t be THAT good.

And, the wind-natured Hokage (sort of) uses a "vaccuum" jutsu. Maybe we should re-name him "Hoover"

Danzo is taking nothing for granted in this bout.  He’s working on Sasuke but he’s also watching Madara to see if he joins in to help Sasuke.  We see him debate about his usage of jutsu and chakra and during that debate, we find out that the right eye/Sharingan from Shisui Uchiha is still not able to function due to it’s previous use.  He took that eye to its limit, as well.  But, no matter.  Danzo manages to pull off an impressive summoning:  a Baku.  A Baku is a summoning that “eats” all nightmares, which is also a very powerful jutsu.  However, it appears it does little to counter Susanoo.

Didn't Danzo summon just the cutest little thing you've ever seen? It's just your latest nightmare...

Danzo openly acknowledges that Susanoo is giving him some trouble, which is unusual for this rather cold, distant Advisor to the Hokage.  Wait, he IS the Hokage (at the moment).  Well, anyway, Sasuke is giving this old geezer a run for his money.  Susanoo is in her final form and those arrows are making life tough for Danzo and his jutsu.  Unfortunately for Sasuke, we all see that Susanoo, also, has a “weakness”:  there is an “opening” in Sasuke’s version of Susanoo and Danzo finds it.  He manages to bring Susanoo down a tad – back to that skeleton form.  Wahhhhhhhhhh!!!!  The final form was sooooo cool!

 

There's nothing like the feeling of a major bonehead calling your bluff...

Sasuke counters very effectively by using the Uchiha standby:  the Grand Fireball jutsu that uses the suction power of the summoning and turns that power against it, which destroys the illusion.  Hmmm…Sasuke is, indeed, growing in his jutsu arsenal!   One other thing he’s doing:  he’s keeping the pressure on Danzo so that Izanagi remains activated for every time his chakra levels rise high enough to activate it.  Karin wants Sasuke to fight at long range.  Turns out Sasuke’s plan is working – so far.

Ok, ok. Now, while I see Karin's point here, Madara brings up a good point, too. As much as I don't like the guy, Madara may be onto something (experience, perhaps?)...

Danzo, on the other hand, is working hard to eliminate Sasuke during Izanagi.  Why?  Once the eyes are gone, they are gone for good…which appear to be the source of his incredible power these days.  However, Shodai Hokage, who is along for the ride, is supposed to be healing Danzo as he goes along the Izanagi track.  I’m now wondering if all of this healing is keeping up with the usage of Izanagi, which is constant.  Let’s see…wind natured, given ten sharingans and the ability to heal.  All would have to consume a lot of chakra.   I’m not sure Danzo has much longer…do you?

In one of the final frames, Danzo uses a seal to activate a number of shurikens and pulls out his kunai.  He and Sasuke (backed by Susanoo) go hand to hand with Danzo appearing to take a fatal blow – much like he did previously.  The end leaves us hanging but, IMO, I don’t think Danzo is dead – yet. 

Now, this is a test item.  I’m want to see if this piece works.  If not, no biggie.  If so, we got another occasional feature.  I want all of you to guess what will be coming up in the manga.  In this week’s case, the question is:

“Will anyone else get involved in the fight between Danzo and Sasuke – either by choice or by accident?”

Please put your answers in the comments and title it “Predictions”.  I (or some victim that I bribe at random) will choose the one that most accurately guesses the actual storyline. It doesn’t have to be perfect – just who is the closest to truth.    Gee, if we could guess it perfectly, we’d be the manga-ka, now wouldn’t we?  😉

Understand that any of these prediction items may NOT be answered, ultimately, in the following week’s manga.  If it is, I’ll select and post the answers.  If not, I’ll let you know and continue to take theories until we do get an answer in the manga.  Like I said, I’m not sure as to how this is going to work but I thought I’d give it a shot.

And, thanks to Tenrai for this idea.  If it doesn’t work, you can dis him in the anime breakdown (ok, Tenrai.  Joking…).

Our demotivational poster for this time is…

  

 Well, that’s all I have from here.  Take care guys and I’ll see you next week.  Whew!  I’m now all caught up.  Wonder if I can take a nap, now…?

–Penny

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~ by 綱手-Tsunades Twin on January 22, 2010.

161 Responses to “Naruto Manga 479 Breakdown and 480 Spoiler Discussion: The Eyes Have It…Demotivational Poster Included!!!!”

  1. FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    O____O

  2. Second …

    BTW I saw the awesome 478 breakdown.

    PS this one is pretty awesome as well.

  3. Third!!!!

    Wow, two breakdowns so close after each other. Well done. ^ ^

  4. Anyway, right at the end of the chapter, you Sasuke’s right eye open with the MS showing.

    Now, we all know his right eye is the one that controls his Tsukyomi, which means he may have cast a Genjutsu on Danzou just before they clashed, which means what we saw in the last panel might be an illusion.

    Secondly, Danzou mentioned that his main eye is still recovering from its use in the Kage summit, which may suggest that if it comes back into play, Danzou may gain the upper hand again. (I don’t see why else he would mention it).

    That also means this battle may be far from over, depending on what his right eye can actually do other than being good for diplomatic sabotage.

  5. i version i read of this manga (mangastream) said the next chapter was the conclusion

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/16

  6. YOSH!!! 2 breakdowns in one day wonderful job Penny! ^_^

    Now about the 1st’s cells that are placed in Danzou… I don’t think they’re healing him. They just allow him to use Mokuton Jutsu which gives him the power to suppress Bijuu chakra and combine water and earth to make the Kekkei Genkei wood. Speaking of which does this mean Danzou has Earth, Wind, and Water?

    As for Danzou and Sasuke fight. They’re both still alive and the fight will continue until there is an interference or victor. No one will die in the end though. As Tenrai said that last blow could very well be genjutsu.

    Prediction

    I can see either Madara or Sakura getting in the way before a fatal blow could be struck.

  7. Great breakdown! 2 in one day!

    Sasuke got stabbed too, so if Danzo isn’t dead then Sasuke will be. Either way, Sakura will arrive to finish off Sasuke or Madara will teleport him to Rubik land.

  8. @Dragon: Not for definite … it’s not like Sasuke’s not privy to regular illusion-casting.

  9. I have to say penny, as good a breakdown as you look. Keep up the goodwork.

    Danzou’s proven his strength, and to think he still tried to make provision for madara jumping in was quite impressive. Seems there’s more to that eye from shisui than we know. Impressive role karin played here with her deductive prowess…i don’t know if it’s just me, or is her ability to deduce abilities of foes increasing with every match? I mean against killerbee she was absolutely hopeless.
    Sasuke, i have to say, is becoming stronger with every batttle….and that’s not fair, given naruto, in comparison to sasuke’s current battle experience, is just dicking around.

    I’m quite intrigued in seeing just what the conclusion to this particular battle would be like. I mean danzou is already all figured out. Madara(though selfishly and inwardly) and karin have done a good job on that one. The thing is apart from the possibility that danzou could have a few tricks up his sleeve and might use the “little surprise” he “reserved” for madara on sasuke, sasuke asn’t really “killed” anyone. Perhaps this might actually be his true first kill, given his motivation is very strong on hatred and revenge. However i have to say killing danzou would be quite a feat for sasuke.

    well that would be it for me, cheers.

    So, are you trying to flatter me? lol Seriously, I’m also interested as to how this is going to turn out. For the first time in ages, I’m actually interested in Sasuke (and you know how much I dislike this emo).

    –Penny

  10. @supertrek: The indication is the cell transplant from the first hokage gives danzou an edge on mokouton abilities. Plus it would only seem logical for him to be able to use earth and water elements, at least narupedia comfirms that.

  11. Great Breakdown!

    I think I know why Madara only uses his right eye!!
    He used Izanagi in the battle against Shodai Hokage, he obviously didn’t defeat him but his left eye dissapeared.

    Sorry for those who think he’s Obito, I don’t call my theory absolute but it’s still plausible

  12. So this has been bothering me… Madara has said that after using Izanagi you are left with “instant blindness” and that “the eye closes forever”… do you think this applies to Danzou even though the eyes aren’t being used for vision? What I’m getting at is this…

    Why would Danzou invest so much in a technique he could only use once, ever, in his lifetime? I have to think he has used it before (I mean c’mon he would have to test if those eyes worked, and he would need to practice to use it right?)

    So do his eyes permanently close, like this is a one shot deal? Say he does win this fight, will he be relatively weak now that Sasuke has made him use all 10 eyes…? Or does he just need some kind of procedure (i.e. help from Kabuto) or just rest them or something to be able to use the eyes again later…?
    …Opinions?

  13. Prediction:
    No one will be involved in the fight. Danzou will be out of eyes in the next chapter, and he will run away because he knows that he can’t defeat Tobi.

    My huge mega uber duber prediction is that Sasuke has copied Izanagi with his MS at the end and uses the technique to survive the imapct with Danzou, just the same as Danzou does.
    Of course, Sasuke’s eyes will close and he will be blind. Danzou runs away because he’s afraid of Tobi.
    This will be the point when Sasuke has to take Itachi’s eyes as Tobi still keeps them.
    If Karin can’t do the transplantation, and as Sakura is on the way to Sasuke, maybe Tobi will go get her or she will arrive by herself. Of course, Sakura won’t be in the condition to fight against Sasuke because she will care about him. Or does anyone think that she won’t cry for him because he’s hurt so badly?

    What do you think about that?

  14. @adakias: honestly that’s a good question. i’m inclined to think that danzou expressed concern on ensuring root found kabuto before konoha did just so konoha didn’t get to find the secret to his arm, and hence to izanagi, and also expressed enthusiasm on the fact that kabuto had medical data that was helpful to his eye and arm. I think what you infer would be hence possible if danzou was able to get his hands on the data possessed by kabuto, as he probably might have found a way to recover the eyes on his arm from the use of izanagi. And, very seriously, if kabuto indeed had the data for that kind of “impossibility” then kabuto would be one hell of a foe to reckon with.

  15. @Totalitarian: Indeed, the cells do give him the ability to use Mokuton Jutsu. I was just pointing out the cells don’t heal him nor does the Mokuton Jutsu. I agree with Danzou’s ability to use water and earth elements. I was just putting it out there and looking for confirmation. Lastly, Sasuke has killed people already…

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-460/page015.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-460/page016.html

    I believe those were the first people he killed.

    @Finaldeed: Great theory dude! That makes complete sense and explains how he knows about Izanagi! 😀

    http://www.mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/5

    @Akadias: Lol, good points. What does Danzou have left after all these eyes are used up (besides Shisui’s eye)? Karin makes the observation that he could be hiding eyes elsewhere on his body.

    http://www.mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/12

    But Danzou himself says he only has 5 eyes left at one point, at least the ones in plain view.

    http://www.mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/6

    I think the reason why Danzou can seemingly use these eyes up so easily is because he may have more back at home base. Remember he had a whole Uchiha massacre to pick up eyes from. That’s much more than 10 eyes (the amount he started with). It’s very possible he has a storage full of Uchiha eyes is what I’m trying to say. He just couldn’t fit them all on his arm. XD

    Or maybe it’s true that the person has to be alive for the eye transplant to work. Thus Danzou could only find 10 Uchiha still alive after/during the massacre and took their eyes. Then he really would be using up all his eyes up on one fight. Meh who knows…

    @Aeris: I could see Danzou running away like he did at the Kage meeting but not so much Sasuke copying Izanagi. Can you even copy a doujutsu? o_@

  16. I’m under the impression that Sasuke pulled out the shurikens…type-o?

    Thanks for the breakdown.

  17. sup ppl, im new to this so HEY! Formalities aside does anyone find it weird that a non-uchiha can come up with a bloodline FORBIDDEN TECHNIQUE?? Maybe it isn’t tooo difficult but i would think it would. At the risk of lighting a fire, i think Itachi knew this Izanagi, he must have since he was well Itachi. What might that say about his death….

  18. @Supertrek: Why shouldn’t he be able?? The only thing you can’t copy is element based jutsus of elements you don’t have yourself. And Kekkei Genkais. Why not a doujutsu? Did you think that he could have copied Orochimaru’s jutsu back then?? Well, he did.

    @maidencrow: Tobi did NOT say that Izanagi was a bloodline = Kekkei Genkai jutsu. He just said that it was a forbidden clan technique. So it should be a Hiden, like the Kage Mane, the Shintenshin, the fatty jutsus and so on.

  19. @finaldeed

    A very good theory. In fact one of the best and most interesting ones I have heard so far. What better way to make the world believe that you are dead than to actually appear to die?

    It may also explain why Madara has only one eye, without resorting to the usual Madara/Obito theories.

    However, even still, Madara himself admits that he was severely wounded in the battle against the Shodai, so even if he avoided death using the Izanagi, he still obviously failed to avoid all the damage completely.

    Still, It’s a very clever theory and a very good job on your part you to think of it so quickly out of the blue like that. ^ ^

  20. @finaldeed: I have to go with tenrai on this one. I’ve been thinking of it as well in my head and that seems absolutely plausible. I mean why would Madara refuse to reveal his face? So until he reveals his face I will have to go with you on that one.

  21. @finaldeed: but then again from the way madara described izanagi, it makes me wonder if he actually used it. He took his time to analyse and explain the jutsu’s strongholds and side effects. It seemed to me he descrided the jutsu with keen interest and from keen observation. Hence it just makes me wonder there’s perhaps a 50% chance he used it against the first, or another 50% chance he had his own “forbidden” jutsu that was capable of cheating death against the first.

  22. great ideas everyone! i can’t wait to find out what the truth is!

  23. @Aeris: I’ve never seen someone copy a doujutsu before and what is there to copy? The reason a sharingan can copy ninjutsu and taijutsu is because it can see and record the users movements (handseals, kicks, punches, etc…) used to form the ninjutsu or taijutsu. When you’re using a doujutsu there usually aren’t hand movements, it just happens straight from the eye. How can you copy something like that? Now I know Danzou does makes a handseal to release and activate Izanagi but if it were so easy to do then I highly doubt it’d be such a highly advanced technique. I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m not saying it’s impossible for a sharingan to copy another sharingan technique right off the bat (I still don’t see how you can though). I just think it’s unlikely.

    Just think of it like this. If Sasuke saw Kakashi warp an object could Sasuke copy it? If Sasuke saw Madara use his space/time jutsu could Sasuke copy it?

    And the reason why Sasuke could do Orochimaru’s techniques is because he absorbed him. As you can see ever since Itachi has taken away the curse seal and Orochimaru from Sasuke he hasn’t done any of Orochimaru’s techniques that were unique to him.

  24. am I the only one who thinks izanagi really is a useless jutsu, i mean every regular person with 2 eyes could use it for somewhere around 30 seconds per eye (cus danzou is special and he can use it for way longer im estimating 30 seconds is normal?)
    so u can use the teqnique for a full minut and after that ur useless you would lose ur precious sharingan eye which is for most uchihas there main weapon, if it was me i would only use it at the last moment if there really was no other way to escape.
    But danzou just started using it while he could ve easily dodged it in the beginning and wasted a few eyes, was that just dumb from danzou or is there something to it?
    Then meh sasuke he keeps getting stronger although he never really trains he always runs lucky with techniques like when he got amaterasu just in time to defeat killerbee, he got susano just in time to stop the raikage and now he completes susano again danzou its just all a bit meh for me. Naruto has to practice for everything takes him ages to develop a new tech and sasuke just gets everything while beeing in a fight >.>
    I can allready see him using izanagi in the next chapter since itachi somehow had that too and he got lucky again =.=

  25. @Supertrek: First of all, Orochimaru: I didn’t mean the jutsus Sasuke used AFTERWARDS he obsorbed Orochimaru. I mean the absorbing ITSELF! Sasuke copied THIS from Orochimaru, in this strange and weird snake world. So I’m afraid you got me totally wrong there 😉 .

    Second thing, copying dou jutsus: You said that copying those was totally different from copying nin and tai jutsus because there are almost no handseals in dou jutsus and it has no movements, it just happens right away.
    That’s correct of course, but you don’t actually think that jutsus are just made out of handseals, are you? There’s the chakra forging that goes on inside one’s body, using the yin and yan chakra. And that’s why the Shraingan can see the chakra flow: in order to be able to copy that. In some way no one of us can imagine 😀 . Or do you think that a Katon jutsu just flows out of your mouth after you made the correct handseals?
    So, there’s more to performing a jutsu than just making handseals. And all THIS together needs to be copied. Like this, somehow like this, Sasuke copied Orochimaru’s “I’ll eat you now and then you are mine and I am you and you am I” jutsu, and just like this, I predict that Sasuke did it with Izanagi. Of course, the handseals Danzou made twice would belong to copying it, but this should be the least problem for Sasuke.

  26. @Aeris: Ah, if you’re talking about Orochimaru’s jutsu where he was trying to take over Sasuke’s body then Sasuke still did not copy that justu. He overcame it. Look at what Kabuto says about what Sasuke is doing.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/346/06-07/
    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-346/page006.html

    His sharingan saw through the jutsu which allowed him to see it for what it truly was and overcome it. I highly doubt Sasuke knows how to take over people’s bodies now.

    As for how the sharingan copies a jutsu with chakra moldings and hand seals I agree. Still, I have not seen someone copy a doujutsu before and it’s yet to be proven. Perhaps we’ll see it next chapter I just don’t think so for reasons already cited.

  27. @aeris: you actually think madara would allow sasuke to lose his precious eyes? I doubt it but if it would happen and sasuke already found a way to do it without having his eyes closed it would be a big laugh. I also doubt you can copy dojutsus just like that you can have them inplanted like itachi did, but wasnt that you need to kill a friend to get MS, or get it from a friend or brother or Probably alot of other ways? It would be kinda lame if it wsa that easy to copy it since i think alot of more uchihas would ve had the MS allready then. Also would it give sasuke a major power up beyond nescerarily.

  28. Yes of course Tobi/Madara would be satisfied if Sasuke gave his eyes up!!! Because that would instantly mean that he took Itachi’s eyes after that, and voila, he has the eternal MS!

    I think as well that you can’t skip the step from normal Sharingan to MS by copying it. That is similar to the Kekkei Genkai copying thing: It’s just not possible because you don’t have the same body physics attributes. When your body needs to evolve or change physically, you can’t copy that.

    @Trek: Okay, that’s your opinion, I got mine. Can’t wait to see what Kishi will draw!

  29. @Aeris: Just between me and you, I think Kishi’s going to draw another Naruto chapter. 😉

    Lol, jkjk I knew what you meant. XD

    I’m really looking forward to whatever happens next too…unless it’s something stupid of course…>_>

    @Anyone: Wasn’t there a discussion about whether or not Rasenshurinken can break through Susano’o or not? Didn’t Danzou just create a small gap in Susano’o with his own wind technique? Hmmm…

  30. I was chilling out to this metal band called “beneath the massacre”, and this bloke i was hanging out with recalled they sounded like they were in kyuubi mode. Thought that was quite funny.

  31. @super – Yes!!! there was such a rasenshuriken discussion…

    Thinking that rasenshuriken is probably much more powerful than danzou’s vacuum watever… it must be able to do some damage to it. In this chapter it seemed like hitting Susanoo with an attack may not compromise its structure, i.e. break it, but instead makes the technique more taxing on the user.

    Although it is difficult to gage the actual destructive power of the nightmare sucking tapir summon… did it damage Susanoo or just make it immobile…? seems tough to give a definitive answer…
    And speaking of summons, I doubt Naruto will have a toad summon that can counter Susanoo the way Danzou did… just saying…

  32. @maidencrow: Hiden means “secret” not forbidden. That would be a kinjutsu. Therefore, Izanagi, if considered forbidden would be kinjutsu.

    The Nara and Aburame clans have “secret” or Hiden jutsu, not kinjutsu. It would have to cause damage to the body or violate the laws of nature and neither of those do. They require special abilities outside of Kekkei Genkai (which require genetic abilities not found in others).

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiden – Secret clan techs

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Kinjutsu – forbidden techs

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Kekkei_genkai – genetic or bloodline abilities

  33. Thnx for the positive comments!

    It has been quite long since I took interest in these kind of discussions 😀

  34. so i was wonder
    great ninja wars usually have two sides to them right?

    so its all the head villages against madara,sasuke, and the gathers beasts (1 thru…..7) and these guys http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/348/11/

    i always wondered about those guys

  35. @boyruns: Sasuke isn’t really on anyone’s side, he just wants revenge. Revenge, revenge, revenge, all the time. But what is there to worry about on that page ?

  36. about the sharingan copying an eye technique: isn’t that what kakashi did after he got pwned by itachi to get his MS? He obviously didn’t kill his best friend (who would that be btw, yamato or gai?) to get it so…

  37. @kahmix: You don’t need to kill your best friend or someone close to you. To acquire the Mangekyō Sharingan, someone close to a Sharingan user must die and the emotion of the loss is responsible for its unlocking. To expedite this occurrence, most Uchiha throughout history have killed their closest friends or family members in order to meet this criteria. In order to obtain the Mangekyō Sharingan, one must feel the emotion of losing a friend, the act of killing them or watching them die alone will not activate it. This is seen with Sasuke and his Mangekyō.

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Mangekyo_Sharingan

  38. It seemed that danzou’s wind tech just made a gap in Susano’o meaning that the rasenshuriken would be able to create a gap as well BUT, also note that Sasuke was practically immobilized by the mega-vacuum-summon and he was also hit in the back, so it wasn’t blocked by that bow-shield, AND he still recovered from the attack fairly quickly (fast enough to smack Danzou into a wall) so it’s not just a case of throwing a rasenshuriken and attacking.
    Also, that madara/Izanagi theory is genius. It’s definitely possible that Madara was getting his ass handed to him by Hashirama, so he used Izanagi as a last ditch effort to stay alive but was still beaten badly enough to be a “shell of his former self”

    as far as predictions go, I’m thinking it’s one of two things:
    Either Sasuke uses his own Izanagi – note how he closes one eye…possibly so only one eye is shut or…
    Sasuke counters Danzou’s Izanagi by using a genjutsu that makes him think that he IS dying or some other means of cancelling Danzou’s self-genjutsu. Maybe something as simple as forcing his chakra into him and cancelling the genjutsu…?

  39. Prediction

    If Danzo’s not dead yet, he will die in this chapter. Sakura will come and interfere. She will get beaten up or Madara will teleport Sasuke, Karin and himself away.

  40. Aeris I am on Supa side when it come to this.
    I don’t think Sasuke can copy doujustu.
    If that was the case then Itach could have copy Pein and had his doujustu, which would make him broken.

    I think they both got stab or Sasuke use gin while Danzo use Izanagi.

  41. Prediction:
    I rekon Sasuke is a shadow clone and he performed the jutsu while throwing Kunai, this symbolises his skill rank to equal that of Itachis when he performed a shadow clone and ended up behind sasuke during there fight. Danzou used his last eye for Izanagi and sasuke is waiting for a counter strike into his reappearing body.

    Now Danzou reveals his hidden weapons under his head bandages and uses his Shizu Mind Bender Jutsu to alter Madara’s will and make him a new combatant but isnt affected because he has 2 minds one being Obito the Obito fan that I am.
    Sakura and Company arrive on the scene to back Danzou up and the plot thickens.

  42. great breadowns penny a feet only a sanin could have acomplish.
    man thi chap. rocks we get to see danzos wild cards and the tru steght of sasuke he is exausted and so is danzo so im seeing this battle ending next chap.

    predictions: starts with danzo and sasuke same pic as last chap. then a voice sage tech giant rasengan they both evade the tech but as sasuke is falling back yamato captures him in a mokuton cell dust clears and hes gone so is karin then madara is seeing in the top of a pilar saing good bye. danzo is angry he ask on whos orders they left the village. kakashi apears with sakura and co.
    on the new hokages orders. end

    just a crasy one that came to mind when i read the manga

  43. @everyone…. although saying that a monster eats nightmares sounds awesome, does anyone know what that means… I have no idea by what is meant when kishi says that the baku “eats” nightmares…

  44. A EMS loosing its light from the Izanagi doesnt sit right with me maybe for a normal sharigan and MS Izanagi would be the perfect trump card for a quicker decent into darkness. Though as it stands Madaras Phase ability is way beyond this Izanagi.
    When it comes to Madara surviving at the Hands of the 1st I cant imagine it was Izanagi that saved Madara, Cause he would of spoted the tech as soon as Danzou used it. Im sure Madara surviving is something more along the lines of his new powers wielding the EMS.

    As for Kakashi Unlocking the MS I would say that madara revealing that the truth that he assumed the reason non uchiha members could use the sharigans is because the Senju held secrets. Well this proves that Senju Kakashi unlocked his sharigan with other methods besides the Dark ways of the Uchiha.

  45. so i have been thinking about this fourth ninja world war. What if madara had the ability to resurrect the sage of the six paths, just like orochimaru could use edo tensei to resurrect the first and second hokages? That, perhaps, could explain his confidence when he said the hokages should understand he was not joking pronoumcing the fourth world war. Just a theory though.

  46. Madara resurrecting Rikudo there would be no reason to if need be he should resurrect Nagato cause he knew the main plan. Madara needs the Unlimited Chakra pool of the Juubi to succeed in his plans. But I would say his confidence arises from having 7 Bijuu, and his many years of experience being a elite shinobi.

    Talking about the six paths did ever notice he had horns?

  47. @omar: great question on eating nightmares. Hadn’t really given much thought to that – especially when writing. Does he eat the genjutsu nightmare or actual nightmares? Apparently, he can infiltrate genjutsu or…has that been proven yet?

    All I know is that I can’t wait for the next chapter. It won’t be such a nice, simple and “clean” ending…

    @nope: it is an honor to be considered as legendary as my ID and screen icon. 🙂

  48. okaayyy! time for another crazy baka theory!!

    What if the crow in narutos mouth was a self activating izanagi, so when akatsuki captures naruto and extract kyuubi the chapter will end in a cliff-hanger of naruto dying and the on the next chapter well se him saved via izanagi, kishi has a nack for this type of writing, i mean look at pains reverse-o-jitsu its the same thing, all is lost and BANG! all is well again.

  49. @omar: i too was wondering what the baka’s abilities were… since it absorbed/moved Susanoo’s aura leaving a weak spot, i believe that it absorbes chakra or whatever Susanoo’s made of.
    i wonder where pain and danzo got their summons…
    @everyone: something’s wrong with Madara’s other eye. otherwise why would he hide it? so the theory of him having used izanagi is pretty likly.
    @lelulalilo: i think that rikudo has a forehead protector similar to jiraiya’s.

  50. @Dragon: That’s fine and all, but my point was that it’s never been explained how Kakashi got his mangekyo and we (readers) were pretty much led to believe that he copied it from Itachi when he got hit w/ the tsukuyomi. Check it: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/10/
    I think I was saying what I said because some people were saying that MS couldn’t be copied

  51. correction: i wrote baka when i meant baku… lol!

  52. @truepain: When I had a look at this picture I counted 10 tails and I also noticed some other pointy things so I concluded that they could possibly be horns. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Juubi.jpg

    And then I look at this pic and it dont look like a Vegeta hair style and Im not really sure i could really be a jiraiya head band so Im assuming once he implanted the Juubi into himself he gained features like the juubi like Horns.

  53. @Penny: By the way, what happened to spill7? Did you kill him with your sannin powers?
    *thinks aloud: That’s right, Dragon… Blame someone else so they don’t find out you killed him with your Rikudo Sage powers. MUAHAHA!*
    Oh sh*t. Did I say that out loud?!?

  54. @Tai Night, you said “I don’t think Sasuke can copy doujustu.
    If that was the case then Itach could have copy Pein and had his doujustu”. Errr, what?? Do you mean Itachi could have copied Pain’s Rinnegan? Eerrrr, no. Copying a jutsu that consists of chakra and handseals is something completely different as copying the physiques, the attributes of a real, biological body or body parts = the Rinnegan eyes.

    @Everyone: I think Rasen Shuriken can easily break Susanoo’s defense IF Narutos hits and Sasuke doesn’t evade. And with Naruto’s smart Kage Bunshins and his tricks, he will definitely be able to surprise Sasuke from behind or sth like that. I mean, you just gotta rememeber how strong Kakashi described it when Naruto first used it against Kakuzu!!

  55. Yea I agree with you Aeris after seeing Danzou’s Wind jutsu, Naruto’s Rasenshuriken would literally cut Susano’s arms off. But I dont think RasenShurikan could do anything to Itachi’s Mirror Shield that Susano’s final stage can wield. Or does Susano currently wield the Shield now?

  56. Sorry for the double post, but this is very important to me:

    @Everyone: Why does everyone think that only one eye closes when a normal Uchiha uses Izanagi? Tobis says clearly on page 5 http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/5 that “the eyes of one who uses Izanagi” will go blind and close.
    The fact that only one eye closes on Danzou’s arm will simply be due to the fact that he took only ONE eye from each Uchiha corpse into his arm and kept the second eye maybe somewhere at Kabuto’s. For reload.

  57. I was getting my beach towel and thongs ready when I thought that this year Naruto better learn a Water Rasengan to be his ultimate close range tech knowing that his Wind Rasengan is his ultimate long distance tech. If he dont learn a Water rasengan then ill loose a few tails of faith in his character..

  58. @aeris well ur right for a normal uchiha the technique would only last about two minutes (if that is the limit per eye for everyone) so yeah they would probably lose both eyes in a battle because it probly takes more then two minutes to kill someone who is forcing that uchiha to use izanagi. but for the theory about madara losing an eye because of izangi makes sense because he only needed to use it to escape. He didn’t try to kill the first because he couldnt so he escaped using izanagi and altering reality to make it seem as if he died that day and releasing the tech before it got his other eye.

  59. @lelulalilo:
    (1) Itachi’s Susanoo and Sasuke’s Susanoo are two different Susanoos. Itachi’s happened to wield the Yata Mirror and Totsuka Sword, so Sasuke’s just weilds a bow & arrow, albeit it’s still pretty strong.

    (2) Naruto can’t use Water Style … unless you mean that could be his second affinity, which I think is possible. Lightning, Fire, & Earth don’t really suit him that well. Wonder what a Suiton Rasengan would be like ..

  60. @fuutonsavior: You got me wrong there. What I was trying to say is that I am pretty sure that BOTH eyes of a normal Uchiha will close when he uses Izanagi. Both at the same time. So he would have only one minute. My proof: See link in my last post, Tobi’s words in the bottom right pic.

  61. Well, I think this episode proves one thing and that is that Susanoo is not an impenetrable defense and is not all powerful as some people have made it out to be.

    Sure, it is beyond most jutsu, but we have seen now that a powerful enough attack can leave a momentary gap in the defense.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/10/

    If you look at the page above, you can see Susanoo’s spine showing where there was once armor, which shows the damage Danzou’s jutsu managed to cause. Obviously the jutsu needs to be very powerful to punch through and you need to follow with another attack quickly before the opportunity passes, but I thought that it does give Naruto a way of defeating Sasuke.

    I am sure it is safe to assume that the Rasenshuriken is capable of inflicting the same amount of damage as Danzou’s attack, if not more, and leave a similar hole in Sasuke’s defense. So if Naruto attacked with one and hid a second Rasenshuriken in the shadow of the first, like he did with Pein, then the second would strike home just after the first one hits.

    It makes sense and it also shows that Susanoo is not unbeatable. Every defense has a weakness, no matter how absolute it appears, and this one is no exception.

  62. ok this might seem absolutely weird as everything in naruto this days turns out to be just weird, but what if marada has the rinnegan in his other eye, hence the mask? I mean most of the time we’ve seen people “hide a part of their face” it’s usually to eventually reveal something absolutely powerful. Just theorizing.

  63. @totalitarian: he’s obviously hiding something but i don’t think it’s a rinnegan. where would he have gotten it from? it just seems too far fetched.

    what about his arm? i mean, he cut it off without hesitating…something must be up! the arm he lost was the same one he used to block suigetsu. could these two things be somehow linked?
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/12/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/12/

  64. @Nagashikage: I understand that both Susano are differant but im thinking that if Itachi gave all his techs to sasuke then he has the shield which looks like his Bow has a shield on it and that Ball a Flame from which arrows come out of could produce a sword cause the sword had no shape so it could be arrows of Totsuka, but sasuke unlocking the thrid stage of the Sasuno could unveil the full power of the Items kinda like the sharigan was in its undeveloped stage.

    Yea I am thinking Water is Naruto’s second affinity cause Minato’s last name Namikaze means waves and wind so it can get much more obvious than that. But if there were a Water Rasengan I would imagin it to be formed like a Ripcurl enveloping from his hand moving like a snake to its destination and anything caught in it would be severly pulverised by its waves.

    And if Naruto learns his second affinty which would be water then he should start performing water, wind jutsu for combat jutsu cause naruto not performing any jutsu besides Kage bunshin and Rasengan can be kinda annoying cause I think hes better than that.
    Even Sasuke I would love for him to perform a FireStorm Jutsu that would be Awesome.

  65. sorry, i put the same link twice. here’s the second one:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/475/10/

  66. Good one, Penny…or should I say two, lol.

    In my opinion, that was a great chapter…it’s probably a bit late to say but still…

    I think Naruto’s Rasenshuriken would tear right through Susano’o, but I get the feeling he’s going to learn a few more tricks before their big showdown, namely whatever he got from Itachi.

    I also think that right now, Sasuke is on a whole other level from Naruto. Naruto is gonna have to step his game up before they face off. Just a thought…

  67. I love Naruto and all but I think the fanboi love for him is over hyping the ability of his rasenshiruken. Would it put a little dent or gap in Susanoo? Sure. But blow through it? Sorry. Nope. If itachi’s only partial Susanoo blocked Sasuke’s Kirin attack when they fought, Sasuke’s “completed” version of the absolute defense would have some serious blocking power. I think they’ve shown that there’s a difference b/w Susanoo providing a block vs. getting sucked away by something.

    Regardless, the Naruto/Sasuke fight’s gonna be epic. And if the Rasenshiruken didn’t blow away Pain with ease there’s no reason to believe it would do that to Sasuke. I think we’re all in agreement that Naruto’s gonna have to pull out a much more “next level” jutsu for that fight.

  68. @kahmix

    I think you underestimate how much damage the Rasenshuriken causes as well. I never said it was almighty, but if Danzou’s wind based jutsu can punch a whole in Sasuke’s defense, what is stopping Naruto’s from doing the same when it is clearly a high level jutsu?

    Remember, wind and lighting are different. Wind is better for cutting, which means it is ideal for penetrating a powerful defense. Rasenshuriken is basically the ultimate long ranged spinning disk of slicing doom. After it has made contact with whatever it hits, it also shreds the target with millions of microscopic needles.

    Just remember one other thing. Susanoo did defend successfully against Kirin, that is true, but Sasuke’s Susanoo also successfully defended against Danzou’s attack as well. The attack simply left it weakened enough so that a follow up attack may get through.

    If Sasuke followed his Kirin with another second one, Itachi’s Susanoo may have been weekend enough for it to break through, but he didn’t because he was out of Chakra and his storm cloud was used up. So we will never know.

    You say fanboi love for Naruto causes us to over hype his Rasenshuriken, but I could easily say the same for Sasuke and his Susanoo, which everyone seems to boldly claim is completely impenetrable when we have clearly been shown otherwise in this last chapter. To me, it seems a bit pointless making Rasenshuriken out to be this incredibly powerful attack that is near impossible to learn, if just any other jutsu can beat it.

    (P.S. I don’t think one Rasenshuriken alone would be enough to punch through Susanoo. Refer to my earlier comment for my idea on how Naruto could make it work).

  69. Naruto is obviously gonna learn water jutsu from his moms heritage and then go Naruto Shippuuden on Sasukes ass!

  70. I know danzo is an evil person but does anyone else think he would be one of the few perfect people to teach naruto more wind techs

  71. @Tenrai

    The comment right above mine suggested that the Rasenshiruken would blow a hole through Susanoo, not yours. I read your take on naruto’s vs. sasuke’s jutsu and its fine w/ me cuz everyone’s got unique takes on predictions, etc. I was disagreeing with Captain P.
    Didn’t think I underestimated naruto’s tech saying that it wouldn’t blow through Susanoo, I was basically saying the same thing you are. I just didn’t explain beyond my main point.

    As for sasuke, you might not have caught my post about being annoyed by the supposed physical risk and drain of using the mangekyo in battle yet he can keep it up for as long as he wants – coughing and crying up blood and all. So yeah, I’m not included in the Susanoo hype either cuz I think its free use is bogus. The one guy to potentially expose it or put it to rest? Naruto.

  72. @kahmix

    Hmmm… and we almost had a good debate topic going there. 😦

    I miss having epic debates that consume the entire blog with glorious and passionate exchanges… T__T

    Well, we could always have a debate about what we think is the best ninjutsu, overall. Not necessarily in terms of direct power, but rather overall effectiveness.

    My personal bet would be Shinra Tensei, because it is great for offence and defence, is extremely destructive can be used at close or far ranges and can be used for multiple purposes, like deflecting attacks, capturing an opponent, luring them into a trap or just pwning an entire village.

    The best part is that it can be used multiple times in a row and its only real weakness is a 5 second minimum cooldown.

    A tech like Amatarasu would also be considered powerful, but the cost incurred is a lot higher, which is why I don’t consider it as good as Shinra Tensei which has far less of a toll on its user. Same goes for Chibaku Tensei, which is incredibly powerful, but has a much higher strain on the user and far less practical uses.

    Lets see if anyone else has any ideas.

    (P.S. this is a ninjutsu only debate, which means no Genjutsu or Taijutsu).

  73. Hmmm hard one Tenrai but Shinra Tensei is overkill as a ninjutsu cause its an eye technique but powerful. Though the greatest Ninjutsu techs would have to be Crystal style but thats way overkill.
    If I had to say the best ninjutsu would proberly be the many variations of Chidori manipulated it can increase the power of a sword, can also increase speed and attack power when used as a taijutsu, Can immobilise a number of enemies as Chidori Nagashi, and a Chidori clone is a deceptive weapon aswell.

  74. @Kamhmix: Well, if you ask me, I’d say Senshi and I are more or less on the same side here (not such a big surprise). But where we may have an issue is in the way I came across. It may have seemed like I was saying Naruto’s Rasenshuriken would absolutely and completely pwn the shizz nizz out of Susano’o, whereas that’s not at all what I really meant. What I wanted to say is that it would greatly weaken Susano’o to a point at which subsequent and consistent attacks would destroy it. When I said “tear right through” I meant “break its defenses” and not “obliterate it”. Hope I’m making sense here. And, well, if you disagree with that, then we may have a potential debate on our hands ;).

  75. YOSH!!! I’m back-ish and I have the time to comment and stir up some debates! 😀

    @Aeris: About both eyes closing I agree with Fuuton. It depends on which eye you use for Izanagi and how long you use it. You see…

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/04/

    “Once the eyes used to cast Izanagi…”

    It depends on which eye is used to cast Izanagi. You can use one (as proven by Danzou) to cast Izanagi or you can use both to add on to that time. The theory is Madara used his left eye to cast Izanagi and fake his death with the 1st then ended the technique before using it with his right eye. Nowhere does it say that once you use Izanagi that both eyes will close definitely.

    Meh…it’s just a theory and you can as well be right with the link you provided.

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/479-33/5

    Just thought I’d give a different perspective on it.

    @Truepain: His right arm and those links. My thoughts exactly, there’s something fishy about it.

    @Kahmix: No, Kakashi did not copy the MS from Itachi after Itachi used it on him. That’d be quite impossible for you see you can’t copy this technique you have to obtain/develop it. How exactly Kakashi developed MS I’m not exactly sure of but it’s probably Obito’s death. Being able to copy MS would be, forgive my bluntness, dumb as hell. That’s nothing personal directed at you btw, just my opinion on such a plot.

    @Rasneshurinken vs. Susano’o debate (Pickles/Kahmix/Tenrai etc…):

    Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone claim Sasuke’s Susano’o was impenetrable. Especially not after we have clearly been shown it’s not. I believe it was Itachi’s shield (Yata’s Mirror) which gave his specific Susano’o that invincible reputation. We haven’t been shown Sasuke has that shield. On the other hand we have clearly seen people claim Naruto’s Rasenshurinken would damage Susano’o (me included). I don’t believe anyone is hyping up a character’s ability. It’s just common sense.

    I do believe Rasenshurinken would damage Susano’o but by what degree I don’t know. Daznou’s strategy combined the suction force of a giant summoning with a few well placed wind slices to Susano’s back. The main thing to notice is Sasuke could not move and avoid the attack here. What is Naruto to do to prevent Sasuke from simply moving and avoiding his Rasenshurinken? Since we all seem to be on the same side of the debate (Rasenshuriken will damage Susano’o) I guess I’ll play devil’s advocate and say Sasuke will just easily avoid it. I wonder how many of you will disagree with that. Debate time anyone? 😉

    @Tenrai: Best ninjutsu for me would have to be the ‘Flying Thunder God Technique’ (Hairaishin no Jutsu). No apparent toll on the user, no apparent weaknesses, undetectable, and you can’t get any faster than that. It’s sneak and stealthiness factor plays more to the real role of a ninja anyway. That’s just a bonus though it’s an overall awesome jutsu. >(^_^)>

  76. Sweet. Yeah I think we’re all on the same page. I’d say that sasuke would probably just avoid it too but Naruto kinda specializes on the sneak attack. Best examples are his fight against Neji and Pain when he used the smoke bomb to hide his R.S. and when he came down from the sky on that one Pain clone (was it the ressurection dude?)
    So I’m thinking he’d use his bunshins well, as he usually does, and take sasuke’s “dodging it” outa the fight. If it’s naruto’s current trump card, he’ll fight to make sure it at least lands

  77. @Super

    Almost missed the discussion about Kakashi and his MS. I thought obito would have triggered it but that theory doesn’t hold much water since the influence of obito dying happened when he was a “kid”. In the link I posted (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/10/) Kakashi is clearly saying that he’s different from when Itachi and Kisame paid a visit to Konoha, when they fought. Basically saying that from the time I fought you to now, I’ve gained my new little tricky.

    Itachi even says “impossible, you…” to imply that even the most advanced sharingan user didn’t think the MS could be copied and was surprised by it. Isn’t that kinda like everyone else here saying “it’s impossible to copy the mangekyo!”. Well, itachi thought so too. And until someone else comes up with concrete evidence otherwise I’m stickin to my guns 😉

  78. Whoops, I meant to say that I almost missed the discussion…

  79. @Kahmix: Lol, I see I can’t persuade you that copying MS is downright impossible because I can not prove it. 😉 Maybe I can but I don’t feel like doing the research. >_>

    Though, I can say the reason why I believe Kakashi did not gain MS right after Obito’s death *cough*if*cough*Obito’s*cough*dead*cough*that is*cough* is because Kakashi’s sharingan wasn’t developed enough at that point to…upgrade. 😉 Maybe he needed time to awaken MS in him though all along the potential was there. Like all Uchiha who have the blood to awaken their sharingan but they need to develop and strengthen first before they can. You just don’t get the sharingan and you just don’t get the MS.

  80. @Trek @Izanagi @how many eyes: Nevertheless, your referred page says as well “the eyes” with a plural s. So I have absolutely no idea why the technique would be so damn forbidden and imba that it can be activated twice. “Well, you know, Izanagi is sooooooooooo dangerous and soooooooooooo freaking imba, we have to declare it as a Kin-Jutsu. Hint: You can use it twice, though.”

    @Trek @debate time 🙂 : Of course Sasuke would try to evade numerous times as Naruto might spam his Rasenshurikens at him. But as we already saw LOTS of times (and als kahmix said) we all know that Naruto is our Surprising Ninja No.1 not in vain. He would eventually succeed to make Sasuke think he dodged it, but he strictly lets him evade into the right position where he should be hit.

  81. @Aeris: It’s forbidden because it causes immediate and permanent damage to the user regardless of how many times it can be activated. It’s a dangerous technique that can only be used according to how many sharingans you have (usually two Danzou’s a special case). 😉

    Like I said maybe you do automatically lose both eyes once the technique is activated but as Danzou shows the tech can be turned off. What’s the point of being able to turn off the technique, why should a turn off option be available, if you’re automatically going to lose both eyes once you activate Izanagi? o_O Wouldn’t it make more sense that the tech drains one eye at a time?

    As for Naruto being the #1 unpredictable ninja that’s true. You pointed out Naruto’s quality but not anything of Sasuke. He’s an analytical genius on the battlefield. His sharingan which allows him to see objects approaching him as if it were slow motion. His cool and calm demeanor on the battlefield (which admittedly he has been losing lately).

    Just because Naruto could surprise a realm from above and just because he did an uppercut on Neji from underground doesn’t mean he’ll automatically fool Sasuke. I’m not undermining Naruto’s ability but you all make it seem like Naruto will just pull a fast one on Sasuke and he’s done for. Like Sasuke doesn’t know Naruto’s use of Kage Bunshins and as if they’ve never fought before.

    Btw, how many times exactly can Naruto “spam” Rasenshurinken? Like 6 times maximum depending on how many clones he has and how much chakra he’s used?

  82. @super and Kahmix: hmm dodge rasenshuriken, i doubt that be as easy as it sounds in Susano’O mode, i actually havent seen sasuke move with susano on him alot, and back when itachi used it he didnt move alot either so i doubt its very easy to dodge while using a technique like that, hes also coughing blood which usually isnt a very good sign ^^.
    Its true tho that in battle sasuke is way more advanced (mentally) then Naruto although naruto usually tricks people, Sasuke analyzes every aspect of the battle then draws conclusions,
    which in my opinion is by far more usefull :p
    I actually do think rasenshuriken could end susano’o or atleast bring it back to its 1st state.

    What i wondered btw is that if danzou had that many sharingans and orochimaru wanted a sharinggan very badly… and he worked together with danzou, prolly helped him with implementing his eyes, then why the hell was it so hard for orochimaru to get one of those eyes from danzou?

  83. acutally fearvano I dont think Orochimaru wanted just any sharingan, he specifically wanted sasuke’s and his body as a vessel. At first he wanted Itachi’s but we all know that failed.

  84. @Trek @Izanagi eye thing: Yeah, that’s a good point, why can you release with Kai? *thinking* Hmm, maybe you can release the jutsu at second 59 and everything is okay 😀 😀 ! Well, I’m anxious to see how Kishi will explain that.

    @Sasuke thing: Yes, you’re right, we just talked about Naruto’s special abilities, and not about Sasuke’s. *prays* Forgive me, I’m not worth admiring you, Sasuke! *end-pray* Well, you’re totally right, his Sharingan lets him see everything approaching him like on slo mo. Unfortunately, we haven’t seen ANYTHING from his analytic skills during battle lately. Nothing against Raikage, and ESPECIALLY nothing against Danzou 😉 . We have to rely on what we know from the Deidara fight. And his analytics there were fabulous!
    You were referring to the past Sasuke and Naruto had together and that Sasuke should know his style. Of course that’s right, basically, but either way, he should be surprised at HOW good and clever Naruto uses the bunshins now. In the past, he really simply spammed them. And if you recall, Sasuke and Naruto really didn’t have much time together, he left VERY quickly.

    @How many Rasenshurikens: I remember quite well that Naruto explained it like this in the Pain battle: He can only hold 2 bunshins in the frog world. Each gives him 2 Rasenshurikens. Returning from the frog world already being in Sennin Moodo, he would have 2 on top, and that makes 6. Yes.

    @Susano’o strength: One important thing that struck me: We saw in this chapter that a seemingly simple Fuuton jutsu by Danzou supported by the Baku’s suction was able to destroy the skin and muscles from Susano’o to the sekelton form.
    Remember the attacks by Raikage? THOSE were seemingly relatively weak as the skeleton form of Susano’o was enough to block that.

  85. @Fear: Good point, we haven’t seen Sasuke move quickly with his Susano’o before but Danzou used the summoning to not only increase his Futon jutsu’s attack power but to also stop Susano’o’s movements.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/09/

    That indicates right there Sasuke could have moved his Susano’o in some position to either block or evade Danzou’s attack. Maybe turn around and block it with that big ass shield he has. O_O

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/03/

    @Aeris: Lol, I’ve never prayed to Sasuke before. You’re more worthy of an admirer than I am. ^_^

    Yeah you’re right about Sasuke’s ability to analyze the situation then attack has been slipping recently. He fought The Raikage in a fit of rage and now he’s bursting with hate trying to kill Daznou for vengeance. The thing is how do you see Sasuke’s attitude when up against Naruto? Calm and composed or bristling with feelings? I think Naruto would be the one bristling with feelings while Sasuke just looks at him with those cold hard eyes of his.

    So I can still see the Uchiha genius Sasuke at his best fighting Naruto and all his unpredictability. It’s true that they haven’t seen each other fight in 3 years so their new moves will come at a surprise for both of them. So let’s look at what each of them has gained since the last time they’ve fought.

    Naruto:

    Sage Mode (Frog Katas, Super Strength, Toughened Body, Extending Chakra)
    Rasen Shuriken (needs Sage Mode)
    Giant Rasengan (only has been done in Sage Mode)
    Kyubi + Sage Mode? (can’t really control that)

    Sasuke:

    MS (Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi, Susano’o all draining on the user)
    Hawk Summoning
    Kirin
    Many variations of Chidori
    And Fire Jutsu I don’t feel like looking up

    (If I’m missing anything for any of the chracters feel free to add on. I’m a bit tired tonight. -_-)

    So where am I going with all of this? I have no clue! O_O I’m going to lay down. >_>

  86. @Super: you finally have me thinking about this particular theory and I will admit, it is a possibility. I’m a little slow on the uptake…lemme explain.

    @everyone: One thing I mentioned is that I never understood why this Obito/Madara being the same person kept coming up. All I kept thinking was “No way. Would be too easy and convenient to throw a curve in.” However, I am now rethinking it. I have a number of reasons as to why:

    1) The left eye being covered. Yes, we have seen newer powerful dojutsu hiding behind masks/bindings, you name the covering. However, it now seems to me that it is way to convenient that it is covered given that Obito gave Kakashi his Sharingan. Besides, his face may have physical damage that is extensive.

    2) Madara’s abilities that have been revealed thus far. He has this time-space thing going and now we know he can absorb abilities from those he tosses off to different dimensions for eternity. He also has the ability to become etherial or “not solid.” Remember when Sasuke tried to run past Madara to head to Konoha? Yeah, Madara went “ghost-like” and Sasuke ran right through him. You notice that his abilities are being slowly revealed…hmmmm. What else is there? A variant of the henge jutsu to revert to childhood? We don’t know but the possibility exists given all we’ve seen so far.

    3) Kakashi’s eye. His Mangekyo Sharingan is now activated. What’s the special ability? Yup, time-space jutsu.

    4) Kakashi’s new leadership post as Hokage. I smell a set up here. Imagine if Madara was Obito. A clash of the former teammates with one always jealous of the other?

    5) His reverting to the role of “Tobi,” the prankster/jester of Akatsuki. Yes, he can do it…

    Now, reasons I have that are against this theory:

    1) Why would Obito give Kakashi his newly born Sharingan eye if he was Madara? Doesn’t seem logical.

    2) We don’t know much about Obito other than he was Kakashi’s teammate who was in constant conflict with him. Is this convenience or something else…? We just don’t have enough information to prove or disprove anything.

    So, there you have it. I’m starting to think about this Obito/Madara thing.

    Oh, and Susanoo? Remember this is Sasuke we’re talking about. Itachi’s Susanoo was very well developed and could defeat Oro’s Kusangi attack. It was a powerful shield and weapon. Sasuke is still “tinkering” with Susanoo to make it his own. He’s not done yet…One other thing: every jutsu has a weakness or a downside to it. And, I mean EVERY jutsu.

    And, Naruto’s strength vs. Sasuke? Naruto has strategic abilities but they are often non-traditional. He thinks differently – and “on the fly.” He may not have the smooth execution that Sasuke has nor does he have that calm, cool, cold, distant behavior and manner, but that does not mean he is weak. He is a different shinobi. I will also add, he has grown since he took Neji to task.

    Sage Arts: Fuuton Rasenshuriken: it is the ultimate S-rank tech. Wind’s properties is that it destroys anything and everything in it’s path. It causes widespread and devastating damage to the opponent and to the battlefield. To say that it wouldn’t damage Susanoo is premature, at best and a stretch at worst.

    Whew! I’m done now…

  87. Oh, I just found this YouTube on the power levels in Naruto. Thought you’d find it interesting.

    Even though it is from the Land of Waves arc, you can see how they come up with this stuff. There are other arcs but I just tapped this one. Proves my point that the characters, including Naruto, have grown.

  88. Is this the first time that Kakashi develops his space-time jutsu … http://www.narutocentral.com/manga.php?s=naruto&c=275&p=19. It was during the arc to retrieve Gaara from Deidara.

  89. @Kahmix: Wow,well, in my opinion, it seems highly implausible that the MS (hell, any eye technique at all) can simply be copied because,well, for one thing, that would be pretty friggin’ cheap. Not like the Sharingan isn’t freakishly powered enough already.

    If it could just be copied, then what was stopping all the other Uchiha (who were strong enough, if you like) from just copying the MS’s off of Madara and his little brother? I’m sure they wouldn’t mind, seeing how much they wanted to strengthen their clan. They could spread the love =P. Simply put, if MS could simply be copied by a regular Sharingan user, then the whole point of the prerequisite (death of your best friend) would be null and void.

    Finally, you’ve probably noticed by now that every MS user has a unique pattern in his, which is also the case with Kakashi and Itachi (Kakashi’s pattern would be similar to Itachi’s if he copied it). Most probably, this owes to the fact that every person is peculiar and the MS is personalized for each Sharingan user.

    Just like a user with a Sharingan with a single tumoe (I’m pretty sure my spelling is wrong >_>) cannot copy the Sharingan of a person with two, or three, and so on, a regular Sharingan user cannot copy another’s MS.

  90. I think the spoilers are out…..

    ttp://iareawesomeness.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/naruto-manga-chapter-479-breakdown-and-478-spoiler-discussion-demotivational-poster/#comment-38776#comment-38776#comment-38776#comment-38776

    I posted the spoiler in the comment section…..

  91. @Trek: I think, if Naruto and Sasuke fought against each other, Sasuke would remain calm and cold hearted. Although I wish he didn’t, this emotionless guy… This would give him his great analytical combat style. Naruto would freak out of course! Of course he would go at Sasuke with senseless Rasengans in the beginning, but as time passes, he would calm down and think about his combat actions. Since we all know that Naruto isn’t the dumbass in fighting he was once, a long time ago.

  92. spoilers: http://naruto-spoilers.blogspot.com/

  93. Confirmed spoiler video:

  94. @Captain P: Umm…what you said would be fine with me and the rest if you had an alternate explanation of how he got it. Isn’t Kakashi called the COPY NINJA??

  95. ….continued (accidentally sent before I finished)

    I laid out my theory and even posted the pages in the manga to back it up. I haven’t seen that from anyone else so like I said: until you show some concrete alternative evidence otherwise the only thing you’re doing is taking the evidence being used and saying “nuh uh!!!”

  96. I’m making a silly prediction that the naruto vs. sasuke battle will come down to using handheld weapons and when it happens sasuke will try to use his chidori infused sword but will lose to naruto as he charges up a kunai w/ his wind chakra like Asuma was trying to teach him. Naruto will remember that Yamato told him wind beats lightning. Either that or naruto wins with the “1000 years of death”. Could go either way. Your call xD

  97. There has been alot of effort and such about Kakashi unlocking the MS but I truly believe that when it comes down to it its because he is Senju. And there is some secret knowledge that allowed him to do this. I dont have the evidence but every method of unlocking a MS from Uchiha stand point would be the complete opposite if compared to the Senju method..Though I dont know what that is…

  98. @Kahmix: What I planned on doing was to show you why it would be incredible for the MS to be copied, is all. I didn’t feel any need to provide an alternate explanation, because, well, I thought that was obvious…I see no reason why it’s not possible for Kakashi to have obtained his MS after Obito died. Kid or not, the prerequisite was fulfilled, and that’s all there is to it, far as we know.

    Yes, Kakashi is called the Copy Ninja, and that’s because of his Sharingan, which many other Uchiha had but still weren’t able to copy the MS, as I attempted proving to you in my previous post. Needless to say, even, that they were of true Uchiha blood, and Kakashi isn’t.

    I just read your theory and saw the link, and I think you’re putting a bit too much into what Itachi and Kakashi said. If you would look at the previous page, you’d notice that in his whole “Kakashi-san, impossible, you…” comment, Itachi was referring to Kakashi’s knowing about the side effect of the MS. Furthermore, Kakashi didn’t exactly say he was different from the last time. What he said was that the last time Itachi paid a visit, he was “unprepared” (possibly to fight someone of Itachi’s caliber) which was different this time…nothing more, really.

    As I said, I think you’re just thinking too deep on it, and reading too much meaning into an otherwise clear, simple message.

    BTW, Naruto killing beating Sasuke with 1000 years of death would be funny as hell. The thought alone makes me laugh lol.

  99. Naruto 480 is out!

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46287-1/naruto/chapter-480.html

  100. Is it me, or is Sasuke turning BA? At least he’s playing his role as a bad guy well

  101. i guess karin is a goner =S..

  102. I expected way more for a finale with this battle, But I must say there I loved the art work in just about all these pages though there is 1 page I expect should be in a bubble contest.
    Bottom scene:
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46287-8/naruto/chapter-480.html

  103. yeh i agree lelu i didnt expect danzou to die or sumthing but atleast make a escape somehow its just a bit dissapointing, So is danzou dead now? or isnt he if he is its sad aswell cus it would be another well developped character to be killed pretty easily.
    the fact he just stabs right through karin is a bit lame aswell if u ask me, both technically and in a friendish way, or perhaps its a genjutsu (but i doubt it).


  104. Karin isn’t goner, that damn Sasuke used Izanagi for her (I think so) and later he will replace eye with one from Itachi…

  105. 480 is awesome! and @pwnman what makes you so sure about him saving karin ? we all know it well she IS utterly useless. and dont ya think its a real refreshing twist to the story? finally the frontiers for a war are set, sauce is defenitly evil and even the emo shit might be banned from the manga.

    god this is great ^^ you guys remember the shit they were talkin after the 8tails fight? bout gettin hurt savin each other blablabla
    so much for being the emogood but evilkiddo now.

    and this throws up a bunch of questions
    1.whats evilboy gonna do now? try kickin some konohass
    2.root without danzou?! konoha now without fail?
    3.team taka is hereby officially disbanned, so what are suigetsu and jugo gonna say bout it

    well lots more to go

  106. and erm did you catch the last frame of the chapter? it says “thats one down niichan” (i m pretty sure that means somethin like bro)

    well BA @ajd

  107. @Captain P: We agree to disagree. You think I’m over thinking. I think you’re being blind and taking a weak, unsupported position. But thats what makes this manga and blog cool to come back to.

    Now how about this last chapter eh? I think it would be good for sasuke to essentially be solo without karin and the other two stooges but we all know its possible she won’t be history. And who knows about Sui and Juugo…

  108. http ://www .onemanga. com/Naruto/480/01/ (remove he spaces)

    Naruto is out on OneManga

  109. oops my bad other people already posted it up XP

  110. This chapter was amazing. I especially loved the final line that Sasuke uttered…I won’t spoil it for those who have not read it yet.

  111. even though i like karin it would be soooo epic if she died

  112. Sasuke told karin not to move, so he pierced her body but not her vitals. What makes it evil is that he went that far for revenge that he put his Nakama’s life in danger.

    Theres so many points in this chapter to discuss Im sure its going to be a good week for convo.

  113. @Aeris: It seems we were both wrong in that Sasuke has kept much of his analytical ability. We just didn’t know it and thought he was totally encompassed by his feelings. GO SASUKE! 😀 In the latest chapter if you haven’t read it yet, I won’t spoil it, you’ll see what I’m talking about. Even with emotions washing over him Sasuke is able to keep a cool head and fight smart.

    Though he looks a bit crazy. o_@

    @Ajd: Sasuke is badass no doubt about it, but I didn’t like how he sacrificed his teammate like that. He should have just stabbed Daznou right through the head, at least that’s what I thought he was going to do when he told Karin not to move. What’s the point of hurting someone who just helped you get back up and fight? The emo bastard! >< If he wasn't so damn good I'd hate him. XD

    @Anyone: Danzou's death a little to quick if he does die next chapter? This character has been built up since the start and now will we see him go in the shortest Hokage reign ever? I hope not… Believe me I want him dead but not like this! It's kinda pathetic with him mumbling over why he can't die. -_-

  114. Woow, sweet chapter.

  115. Wow…Sasuke’s kinda going psycho…talking to his dead brother after killing someone-kinda like when Gaara talked to his “mother”-and he’s stabbing his teammates. My guess is that he plans on going blind trying to kill the elders and then he’ll use Itachi’s eyes afterwards, since he didn’t want Itachi’s eyes to “see” him exact his revenge. After he’s done all the killing he needs to, he’ll have his brothers eyes implanted so that his brother can “see” him rebuild the plan.

    Oh, and my guess is that he told Karin to stay still so he could hit Danzo in the heart while avoiding her vital organs.

    Cuz he’d be a total douche if he didn’t.

  116. Lol, just a funny and failed attempt to bring back the theory I hate so much! XD

  117. @super – “Danzou’s death a little too soon…” my thoughts exactly… disappointing that there may not be a confrontation between Danzou/Naruto or Danzou/Sai, since the story seemed to be building up to this kind of event…

    and those wrinkles around Danzou/Madara’s eye look pretty similar …although that may just be how kishi draws old dudes’ faces lol…

    Overall, I think this (assuming Danzou does die) is a great plot development, and will only further complicate Naruto’s feelings about how to deal with Sasuke, considering that Danzou is also Naruto’s enemy…

  118. Hmm… I wonder if Sasuke will ask Madara to take Karin to Sakura so she can be healed… oh, the hilarity that would ensue!

  119. Damn…idk..Sasuke is turning out to be a real psycho after all…wtf… >_< what Naruto is going to do now..????? 😦

  120. well, so is my now ex. What’s the big deal? no one listens to the good guys any who

  121. I would guess that anyone reading has already read the manga so I hope me saying this and that doesnt bother ya to much. Though
    I really hope Danzou uses Izanagi to escape knowing that he got it straight through the heart, I think he will sacrifice Shizu’s eye to survive this battle. But it seems a hell of a waste cause of the power of Shizu’s eye. Notice how Madara was plotting to take the Eye for himself.

  122. Hmmm… somehow I don’t think Sasuke actually killed Karin or even intended to. Firstly, Madara said that she is one of Sasuke’s chosen, so that must means something. Then there is the following page…

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46287-13/naruto/chapter-480.html

    Just before he attacks, Sasuke tells Karin not to move. Why would he bother saying that if he was just going to kill her anyway, unless, of course, he needed her to keep still so he could avoid her vital organs.

    We know how accurate the chidori blade can be, so it is fully likely that Sasuke avoided Karin’s internal organs and just hit Danzo with a fatal blow.

    The whole “falling into darkness” part may just be Kishi’s way of adding suspense and making us think Karin died, just like he tried to make us think Itachi was alive again.

  123. @Kahmix: Errr, okay, then…

    Anyhow, I thought this last chapter was awesome. Yea, psycho would definitely be the word to describe Sasuke now. Don’t know about your ex, though, Ajd, lol.

    I get the feeling Kishi is trying to show us that there’s no turning back for Sasuke now. And the chances of him returning to Konoha (not with the aim of destroying it, of course) are going thinner by the chapter.

    Also, Danzou talking about how he must survive by any means necessary for the sake of the ninja world got me thinking maybe his ultimate goal (whatever it was) was really unselfish. Well, too late for the sucker now.

    So Madara wants Shusui’s eye. Would that mean that Madara does have only a single Sharingan eye? That being the one seen through the opening in his mask.

  124. @supertrek89

    There are a few factors that still disprove the Madara/Danzou theory. First, the anime has revealed that Madara does not have a scar on his chin like Danzou does.

    Secondly, remember that Itachi implanted an automatic defense in Sasuke that causes Amatarasu to activate when he sees Madara’s Sharingan. (Not just any Sharingan, only Madara’s).

    Sasuke was clearly staring Danzou straight in the face, with his Sharingan clearly visible and yet we saw no automatic Amatarasu firing off. This is due to the fact that Danzou has Shisui’s Sharingan, not Madara’s and that the two eyes are unrelated.

  125. What an exhilarating chapter! I do believe Karin’s gonna get of this alive while Danzou’s chances are pretty slim considering that wily Madara’s still around.

    I hope next chapter would feature the main character already!

  126. That sure was a sick chapter. Sasuke definately hasn’t been getting his medication lately. Also there was one thing that really invoked my curiousity. Why did sasuke activate his MS before stabing Danzo and Karin. As far as I know he can see their chakra flow with his regular sharingan, so he wouldn’t need to expend valuable chakra on the MS. I think he’s cast a genjutsu on Danzo, so. he would think he is stabbed. That way Sasuke can free Karin and maybe realy kill Danzo.

  127. I agree with to63. What’s with the MS thing?

    But anyway if this is not a genjutsu and Karin is really hurt, I believe that there is no one who can heal her….except for Sakura.

    So I am expecting to see Sakura very soon. 🙂

  128. @cumulusbg: Interesting point on sakura, i was going to say that too. But to add, i get the feeling sakura shows up and, given she does not know the truth about itachi or sasuke’s drive for vengeance, will not understand why sasuke killed danzou, who’s supposed to be an appointed hokage. Interesting to see where things get from there, and if, perhaps, sasuke forces sakura with genjutsu to heal karin. However, with the activation of the mangyekou just before stabbing danzou through karin’s “boobs’ (hehe), i get the feeling it could be a genjutsu on danzou making him feel he still has karin.

    Another thing i’ve been pondering, having read a couple of the debates, especially on the efficacy of susano as an impregnable defensive barrier, i’ll have to go with supertrek on his take. Sasuke’s susano does not have the yata’s mirror, which was an extension by itachi to fortify susano. Danzou being able to create the gap with, what for me were just interesting wind techniques and nothing more, is proof what the Sage Arts: Fuuton Rasen Shuriken would really do to a susano without yata’s mirror. Could just be one of the reasons why madara remarked that naruto might just be stronger than sasuke,

    Again i noticed something in the trend of the naruto/sasuke development. During the naruto/pein fight, when naruto was in sage mode, pein was utterly cautious just until naruto went out of sage mode and pein goes “now there’s the opening, this is my chance” and rushes forward to naruto. Same for danzou fighting sasuke, when he managed to create the little gap in susano, he goes “there’s the opening in susano”. Tells us something about senjutsu and susano, doesn’t it? The fact that s-class nin like pein and danzou had to be cautious of these jutsu. Then, naruto talks about trying to extend the time for holding senjutsu. Sasuke also talks abbout the fact that he has not fully mastered susano. Doesn’t that just, perhaps, give us the hint that naruto and sasuke are just about the same level? There’s also the sage+kyuubi thing whic obviously he still has to learn to control, but is a sign of things to come. I personally think that would be one way he learns to achieve sage mode while running. I guess time will tell.

    Yet again, about the extension to danzou’s swoord, if i’m not mistaken, isn’t that a wind extension? I think that again shows signs of things to come from naruto. Funny still, naruto kills pein with an ordinary rasengan. Sasuke kills danzou with a chidori extension. Naruto was technically fighting to avenge jiraiya against pein, even though he decided at the last min vengeance was not to be his part. Sasuke is on his quest for vengeance against danzou and would do anything to achieve it, even stab karin on the boobs. It seems to me this present storyline is technically on naruto/sasuke growth/path.

  129. Hmm. Speaking of the stab, what if the mangyekou activation was to see both danzou and karin’s vitals so avoiding karin’s he could “squeeze” danzou’s? But then the ordinary sharingan could just be enough for that, so why did he activate the mangyekou?

  130. There is a possibility here that Kishi is toying with us. First he setup a figth with Killer Bee/Kisame where it ends quite quickly. Then now Danzo/Sasuke which also ends fairly quick if not for all these Izangi. Just before we see Danzo death, he mentioned that he needs to get Madara. What a better way to bring Madara closer to him then dying. I think he activated Shisui jutsu and got Sasuke to use mangyekou to create this death scene so that Madara will come down to the playing field.

    @Tenrai You are probably right about Danzo and Madara not being the same person with the point about automatic Amatarasu.

  131. but about sasukes ms is he activated his left eye whats amaterasu for sasuke. so it isnt tsukiyomi,

  132. @Tenrai: Lol, I know it was just a joke picture. I never believed in the theory which is why I said,

    “a funny and failed attempt to bring back the theory I hate so much!” XD

    I’m just making fun of the situation and the Danzou/Madara theory. 😛

    @Totalitarian: Adding on to your Naruto vs. Pein and Sasuke vs. Danzou comparisons. Both Pein and Danzou were weakened at the start of their battles. Pein had lost his power to “use the force” (Shira Tensei, Bansho Tenin, Chibaku Tensei) by the time Naruto entered the battle. Daznou couldn’t use Shisui’s eye at the beginning of his battle with Sasuke. They had to be cautious because they weren’t at full power unlike their opponents.

    Admittedly though Sasuke had just come from multiple fights at the Kage summit before battling Danzou. Whereas Naruto was fresh from the start. Lol, and yes I know Karin healed Sasuke but I highly doubt it was 100%.

    @To63: As for why Sasuke activated his MS, that’s a good question. I think it was just to make Sasuke look crazier. XD

    @Anyone: Some interesting things while browsing through the manga. Sasuke remembering Itachi crying the night of the massacre?

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/7/16/

    Sasuke has more than normal amount of chakra?

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/7/09/

  133. madara and danzo aren’t the same person. you can tell just by the way madara talks…i mean, he’s commenting on the battle. why would he do that if he and danzo were the same person? plus, danzo wants to fight madara. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/480/12/
    i hope that karin doesn’t die but sasuke’s face, the title of the chapter and madara’s face make me think otherwise. sasuke has gotten to a point where all he thinks of is revenge, which is exactly what madara wants. i wonder if he’ll try synchronizing sasuke with the Gedō Mazō now.
    too bad about my theory of madara taking danzo’s arm…
    @totalitarianhypnosis: you really made a point there. the two battles were really similar, with lots of parallelisms.
    @captain pickles: where does it say madara wants to take shisui’s eye?

    Muhahahaha, more people than I thought I’d get to comment on the Danzou/Madara theory! XD If you’re looking for where Madara says he wants Shisui’s eye just look here

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46287-9/naruto/chapter-480.html

    It’s his thoughts.

    -Supertrek89

  134. @Truepain: Yup, like Super editted, it’s on page 9 on OM, and he was thinking it. Like I said, I think it hints that Madara has only one Sharingan eye as of now, which is the one seen through the hole in his mask.

    I can’t really say if Karin is dead or not, but I’m pretty sure Sasuke couldn’t care any less. I say that because of that second to the last double page where Sasuke is has on the most sinister look I’ve ever seen (and that scared me). And if she does survive, he and Madara would probably just leave her for dead anyhow.

    @Total: I totally (no pun intended =P) agree. I, too, think the events that are taking place are a build-up of the contrast between Naruto and Sasuke.

  135. I don’t think Karin is dead. First of all, there’s GOT to be a meeting between her and Sakura. That’s just fate. Second, why should Sasuke say “Don’t move” if he had nothing planned? Even if he didn’t care at all about her as a human being, he would still care about her as a useful kunoichi that can heal him whenever he wants.

    Maybe he could let the chidori make a turn in Karin’s body so that it avoided her heart? 😉 No, seriously: If you draw a line from Sasuke’s hand to Danzou’s heart, Karin’s heart shouldn’t be on that line because: she’s standing before him, okay, but Danzou is taller and bigger than her, so their organs shouldn’t overlap 100%ily.
    As for Sasuke using his Amaterasu-eye……. *shrug* Maybe he can do stronger ninjutsus with this eye as the division between the eyes is basically about this: One side: ninjutsus, other side: genjutsus.

  136. @Supertrek- Are you sure that your reading the page correctly? The first panel is Madera thinking that Sasuke did well defeating Danzo, even though Danzo didn’t have use of Shisui’s eye. The second panel is DANZO thinking that he is just about ready to “get [activate] Shisui’s eye soon.” Note that Danzo also thinks, “The roots should have stayed hidden in the ground,” which is a reference to Hashirama’s Mokuton roots. Danzo’s not done yet, and his next attack probably won’t be directed at Sasuke. He’s going after Madera with Shisui’s eye.

    An interesting side note. Danzo is the head of Anbu Root, and now we know that he’s had Shodai Hokage’s Mokuton all along. The appelation “Root” now has an additional dimension to it. Kishimoto has been waiting a long time to play that card.

  137. A Small Theory:
    1. Obito and Shizu were brothers thats why Madara/Obito wants Shizu’s eye from Danzou’s dead body to activate a EMS. With Team Sakura arriving on the scene.

    or

    2. Danzou uses Izanagi and then is backed up by Team Sakura who fight a impaled Karin and Chakraless Sasuke, leaviing Team Sakura to get their ass handed to them by Tobi and then Being backed up by Kakashi.

    3. Hashirama is reborn with with 10 Sharigan eyes fused into 2 special Senju Sharigan eyes.

  138. Anyone else notice the tree that Danzou ejected from his body had sharingan eye holes in it? Not sure if the eyes are still active, or even under Danzou’s control, but I can’t help thinking it’s a trap Danzou hasn’t sprung yet.

  139. @jdb: Look at the other translation on Mangastream! At first, I thought the same way as you: Danzou is thinking those lines on the left picture, and Tobi the ones on the right picture. Then I read Trek’s words and I understood. And when you look at the translation on mangastream, this underlines this fact as well.

  140. I think sasuke activated the MS cause it gives him a better ‘vision’

    afterall, when Madara explained the way sasuke trapped Danzou in his ilusion, he mention he had MS as if that helped him to se better, maybe the shot of chidori he did required just a milimiter, that’s why he activated his most powerful sight, and, doesn’t it make sense? each new developement of sharingan gives the user a better view, why not MS?

  141. @jdb44: What are you talking about?

    @Lelulalilo: Seriously matey, haven’t we all had enough of the madara/obito theory? I understand that sometimes sticking to your theory makes it unique but common, it seems the madara/obito theory has no concrete evidence and can’t be proven. Let’s go for something more fun and less monotonous shall we?

  142. @super: my bad, i read it wrong. i thought that those were danzo’s thoughts, not madara’s.

    even if sasuke didn’t hit any vital points, karin is still badly injured. still, she might survive…sasuke and danzo are both up are piercing each other. if THAT is possibile, then so is karin surviving.

  143. @totalitarianhypnosis: Yea B-b-b-but..but..Nahhh. Im not going back on my words matey, I like the Idea of Obito/Madara if you dun like it why dont you suggest Madara/Shamwow for all I care.
    I realise there is no concrete evidence but the Link that Sasuke and Naruto have with Madara/Tobi I think in my mind that Kakashi has that same link so Im gonna keep thinking Madara/Obito.

    But what else would you suggest that is more fun and less monotonous, Huuuh??

    😉

  144. im with noom on the chidori theory first cause hes using the amaterasu eye and weve seen sasukes ability with the jutsu so to me is posible.
    but madara was all hes enter the dark side now happy and sasuke saw the hole kill and we got to see the emo smile for a change.
    defenetly some naruto next week.
    posibilities man

  145. @Jdb44: Sorry it took so long for me to respond but I had classes and practice. ~_~ Welcome to WRA JDB! I don’t believe I’ve seen you around here. 😉

    Now as for the the eye thing I know other people have responded but since it was directed at me I thought I’d get in my say. Just going off of the mangarearder translation this is what I read.

    “I [Madara] should be able to get [obtain] Shisui’s eye soon. The Roots [Referencing Danzo’s organization] should have stayed hidden in the ground.”

    And we know that Danzo’s organization (ROOT) was a shadowy organization based underground. Here’s other translations to back up they were Madara’s thoughts.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/480/09/
    http://www.mangastream.com/read/naruto/480-41/10

    Great point on the link between Danzo’s Mokuton ability which gives him the power to create wood (roots) and the name of the organization he heads (ROOT). An indication that Kishi isn’t making crap up as he goes along. At least dealing with Danzo’s power that is…>_>

    @Lelulalilo: Keep the theory alive until we’re shut down then we go hiding underground and deny everything! 😀

  146. @jdb44: Yeah, but seriously what does danzou being the head of ROOT have to do with mokouton(root)? In fact, what relationship does mokouton have with root? Just baffles me a little. I think the fact that danzou is head of root is unrelated with his mokouton abilities, and if i’m a bit interesting on clarity i believe danzou did explain the reference to ANBU root being referred to as root. He said they were the organization that existed underground to protect/support the big tree called konoha from potential threats, ones capable of materializing eventually. And he used the analogy of konoha as the tree while they were the foundation/root for the tree. In the manga, the reference to root by madara was on the organization, and not on danzou’s mokouton ability. So it’s either i’m just being paranoid or i kinda have a point.

  147. @Totalitarian: I don’t believe he’s saying his organization (ROOT) brought about his mokuton abilities. He’s just pointing out the very clever similarity probably laid out by Kishi when he thought of the organization and what power he should give Danzo. Mokuton Jutsu is able to create “trees” with “roots” delving deep into the ground. Anbu ROOT is an underground organization and as you pointed out an analogy between trees (Konha being the tree and ROOT being its underground foundation). I don’t know that’s the best I can explain it. I’m sure Jdb can explain it better since it’s his analogy after all. XD

  148. OMG HAHNAHAH lolz i shall pass it on XD!!!!!!!!! keep the theory alive :p

    MUHAHHAHAHAAHAHA, welcome to the Obito/Madara/Tobi camp Death! We’ll force spread our theories on everyone until they bleed out the ears! XD

    -Supertrek89

  149. @Aeris- Thanks for the re-direct. I had read the same translation that Super provided in his comment. Mangastream’s translation was much clearer.

    @Supertrek- I stand corrected. 🙂 Once I read the Mangastream version, it became clear that you were right. Oh, that hurt.

    I still maintain that Danzo activated Shisui’s eye technique and is about to mount a counter attack. I wouldn’t be surprized if everything in the latter half of this chapter was part of a genjutsu illusion…or not. Regardless, Danzo will have saved his last dance for Madera.

    I still drop by now and again to read the comments. I’m actually starting to see some promise in this arc. Now let’s hope Kishi can fulfill that promise with a better ending.

    @total- I couldn’t have said it better than Supertrek. My comment started with, “An interesting side note,” which should have told you it had no real significance. So yah, you’re just being paranoid.

  150. @jdb44: So much for paranoia huh? At least you do admit it was nothing more than a sidenote with no real significance. And given supertrek expected you explain it better all you come out with is this. Good job admitting it’s little(or perhaps non) significance.

  151. @supertrek: Yeah i get the fact he’s trying to strike a comparism/similarity with ANBU root and ‘root’. But i’m saying that danzou obtained his mokouton abilities just from being a totally weird and powerless ninja who needed to rely on the dead remains of awesome ninja for his survival. I mean danzou founded root even before he got that arm. If you see the part where danzou teamed up with hanzou against nagato you’ll see he didn’t have the arm. And then it seems another thing that caught the eye of monseiur jdb44 is madara’s thought that ANBU root should have stayed underground, which he probably thought to be danzou’s thought. So i guess my bout of confusion stemed from his basis of comparism. Comparing the root of his mokouton to ANBU root.

  152. Hi guys! New to posting here.

    Just wanted to share a possibility of Karin actually being dead (soon). Sasuke said “Don’t move” so that she didn’t compromise his shot at Danzos heart. He activated his Amaterasu MS… so he can burn him, after he got him impaled and immobilized:) Cuz why not. And maybe we’ll get a scene of Sasuke holding Karin in his arms, looking at her die in disbelief – enters Sakura… Now that would be a nice misunderstanding:)

  153. @Totalitarian: Umm…let’s just drop it. You seem a bit confrontational with Jdb (that’s just my perspective and I could be wrong) so let’s just move on. I’m sure on many other points you’d both agree on. 😀

    @Tandaradei: Welcome to WRA! Lol, I would love to see Sakura’s ‘WTF Face’ if that ever happens.

  154. If any of you want some time to kill while your waiting for the new Naruto breakdown, you could check out the breakdown over on IRA that i made:
    http://iareawesomeness.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/naruto-chapter-480-breakdown-and-481-spoiler-discussion-sasukes-future/

  155. what i dont really get is this: when oro took sauce in, he did it cuz he wanted his eyes in the first place (though they were talking about his body if i remember correctly?) but he already had good connections with danzou and i doubt danzou made him implant 10 sharingans in his arm without oro knowing it. so why go through all the trouble of taking sasuke in when he could have just asked danzou for a couple of eyes? and on top of that oro had to change bodies once in a while rendering his last body useless to him so in the end all he d have left anyways is a pair of eye n nothin more.

  156. I got here really late, but the Ultimate Jutsu is clearly the Substitution jutsu. It can get the user out of any pinch, takes a little bit of chakra and is so important that even Academy Students learn it! But the second best justu is every Rinnegan technique

    Sasuke’s Susano is nothing compared to Itachi’s. Remember what Zetsu said? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/v
    Based on that, it seems that those magical weapons Itachi’s Susanoo had were found by Itachi himself and not generated by Susanoo. Poor Sasugay. So while Itachi’s Susanoo is NEARLY unbeatable (its made of chakra and so are its weapons so Pain’s Hungry Ghost Realm would make quick work of it), Sasuke’s doesn’t even come close.

  157. I think people misunderstand Orochimaru’s intentions a bit, so lemme try to clear it up as best I can.

    It’s pretty simple, actually. Ultimately, Orochimaru did want the Sharingan eyes for himself. But the problem was, he wasn’t of Uchiha decent, and he realized that only those with Uchiha blood can access the Sharingan’s full potential as Itachi said when he returned to Konoha.

    So the only way for him, then, was to use his jutsu to transfer into the body of an Uchiha with the Sharingan. So with that, he had two choices: Itachi and Sasuke.

    He tried Itachi, but got pwned, and left Akatsuki, so he went for Sasuke. He preyed on Sasuke’s quest for power and took him in as his young apprentice, with the intention of training him to make him strong, and then taking over his body. Thus, obtaining the Sharingan in an Uchiha body.

    See? I said it was simple =D.

  158. how was that supposed to help picklesssssssssssss i already knew that 😛 lol just jk I R BACKNESSs

  159. @Pickles, yeah but you forgot about Kimimaro. Remember he was Oro’s second choice, but after Kimimaro got sick he chose Sasuke, so Sasuke is his third choice. Bah…..that has nothing to do with your theory, only that Orochimaru likes to take men’s bodies

  160. @Kisuzachi: Yea, you’re right, I didn’t feel it needed a mention because I was trying to explain Orochimaru’s intentions when it came to the Sharingan. That, and I also forgot about Kimimaro…>_>.

  161. the new breakdown is out:

    http://www.weareawesomeness.wordpress.com/naruto-manga-480-and-manga-481-spoiler-discussion-thats-one-down-for-the-niisan

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