Naruto 451 Breakdown

Naruto 452 Spoiler Can be Found Here

Previously on Naruto

Last week we had what could have been a slow ‘feel good’ episode.

That was spoiled by Danzo in what I thought was a very flimsy self-nomination. No one in the meeting seemed to want to listen. I felt like the guy in charge was like, “Yeah, yeah, whatever… Danzo? Sure, do it and get outta here, we’re busy.” The whole thing inspired a lot of hate in the comments and chat room. Time to die Danzo.

(I overheard a theory that Danzo could actually be a good guy. Interesting…)

Naruto had saved the people in the village from what could have been complete annihilation, displayed power and strength enough to defend against one of the biggest threats in the ninja world, convinced that same villain to use his own power to revive the dead, and walked away gaining an ally. Sakura was told the whole story… And!

She gave him a hug.

*sigh*

But, that is the way of manga.

Naruto 451

Welcome to my first and WRA’s first Naruto Breakdown. In the scheme of things this episode has had a better reaction from people in general ever since we had the ‘pleasure’ of hearing Nagato’s story and hitting the reset buttons on all the supposed deaths he caused. We’ve had our optimistic outcome of the fight with Pain, but I’d be surprised (regular surprised) if many of you didn’t foresee things getting worse again before they got better.

Well… That’s what we have here. New problems. But with Danzo and Sasuke back in the picture, we’re getting right back into the real meat of the story.

By the way, I checked Yamato’s power level. Awesome home building jutsu.

Sakura

Sakura

Sakura’s reaction to Naruto saving the people of Konoha was very reserved. It could even be seen as very cold in light of what I mentioned above. I know Tsunade is in a coma and Sakura has always been very slow to be affectionate towards Naruto – but seriously where’s the love?

Old Friends

Inari_Tazuna

It was a pleasant meeting between two characters we haven’t seen in a very long time. There has been a lasting theme with Naruto where the effects of his good deeds have turned out to be very helpful. The biggest one was convincing Nagato to use the death god. But no less interesting to see Inari and Tazuna, back from the past to help rebuild the village. Naruto’s goodwill has been contagious.

Sasuke

Sasuke

We’re definately leading up to a confrontation between Sasuke and naruto again. Naruto thinks he can understand Sasuke better now because of the recent painful events spurred by Nagato. Who knows what Sasuke’s real plans are?  Will Naruto really be able to get his friend back?

Star Wars Reference

Kakashi

Does Naruto yell in his own mind?

Kakashi was having a bad feeling about this chapter. Yet again, either Kishi or the translators love Star Wars!

Naruto Pairing

DanTsu

Match made in hell.

For this week: The two Hokage (Dan/Tsu)

Let’s play a song for them.

Contest

Yamato

Keeping your wood hard all day can be a struggle.

Make your caption better than mine  and we’ll post the winner and the runner’s up. This is a new style of contest that is sure to be quite interesting. Why? Because I’m actually giving out a prize for the first place winner. Anyone who wins will have to give a mailing address, or some way to fed-ex you a package. I pulled this caption out of thin air. I dare you to do better.

Contest rules: Write something funny that’s in context of the picture above and please put CAPTION in capitol letters in the comment first so we can easily sift through the comments section. Like so:

CAPTION

Heheh… heheh…. wood….

For Those Who Don’t Know Me

My wordpress and chat name have been changed to Gavin. I was of815 when I started posting on IRA (iareawesomeness) but I found it too hard to keep up when people were calling me ‘of’. This has been my first breakdown, and I hope you enjoyed it and the few changes I’ve made from the style we had on IRA. I was at the right place and time for this, but I’ve been writing about Naruto for a while now. Thanks for this opportunity and I will continue on doing these for as long as there are people reading.

Special thanks are in order for a lot of people on here, but I will be mentioning specific people that have helped me out over time in the next few weeks. But, first, thanks to Scorpion Legacy for giving me the chance to do this in the first place.

I’ll update links to spoilers when they are available. Reflex is handling a new kind of post for videos, check that post out for updates on video spoilers.

Have a good one,

-Gavin

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~ by Gavin on June 13, 2009.

223 Responses to “Naruto 451 Breakdown”

  1. first!!!!

  2. OH Yeah my first, first in WRA yeah!!!!

  3. @Gav: nice, different styled breakdown, i like it! (especially the “IT’S OVER 9000!” LMAO

  4. CAPTION

    WTF i am the only one to work my ass off here!!!

  5. 2nd and great breakdown, gavin. ^^ I loved the sound effects! But the pairing is just WRONG 0_o

    I first ROFL’d on the ‘IT’S OVER 9000!!’ bit. XDD

    Suckura is being quite bitchy about the whole thing. Naruto just went through hell (you gotta admit, the EMO+ the EMO’s housewife and his mindless zombie minions are one big bunch of braindead enemies that he had to brainwash… how do you brainwash teh braindead? @_@) and she’s complaining about not being comforted. Besides, I’m a NaruHina *waves flag*
    Get away from Hinata’s man you *beep*!… heheh, jkjk. But Kishi must be enjoying the pairing wars too much for his own good. Soon there’ll be fangirls knocking on his door (with assassination daggers in the fists) and I’ll be among them. *Mwahaha…*

    *cough*

    Hmm… good idea with the caption thing ^^. Although I don’t think you’d mail a package all the way to Europe… @_e Not everyone here is from America *looks around*… well I’m not. 😄

    I got a bad feeling about this… 8D

  6. @Dynamic: try 3rd 😛

  7. CAPTION

    Get back to work you slacker clowns! Especially you Sakura, what have you done lately!?

  8. @Gavin: I like the little music between the Hokage, i am sure it will fit what will happen between them in the next chapter 😛

    BTW, i don’t know if is just me but i think you could drop the line between each section, the picture do just fine the separation.

    You kept the hold way of the manga breakdown and put it better so GREAT JOB GAVIN!!!

  9. @mud: CURSEEEESSS!!!!… I was 2nd but my post took a long time to type out… grrr… >(
    jkjk 😄

  10. i’m pretty sad IRA is gone.

    but i like WRA’s style. hehe

    BTW,i know, most of you don’t know me.
    i glen07, ‘was’ an active member of IRA maybe a year and a half ago, and out for quite some time for studies, and now, from maybe 100 members a year and a half ago, now, IRA has grown a lot. and now, as i go back to manga life, i can’t reacognize most of you. hehe. BTW, i’m a filipino that’s why my english is not that good. hahah

  11. 1st comment evahhh either here or IRA. I love this breakdowns cuz they’re so awesome and since i found IRA i didn’t stop reading, thanks Gavin for the breakdowns.

    Caption

    Geezz do i smell burning? F*CK sasuke didn’t u read the sign, no smoking allowed Dumbass!

  12. @Gavin: When i read the ‘previously on Naruto’ header I immediately thought of Lost – I wonder why? 😛
    I personally like how you separated everything into sections.

    @dynamic: LOL. Maybe if your comments weren’t going off on tangents so much you might have claimed the prize 😛
    Damn now that you mentioned NaruHina, that’s all Super is gonna have in his mind. Umm quick look over there Super, I think that’s Nico Robin.
    Ahhh crisis averted.
    *everyone is looking at Mudshovel*
    Ummm…
    *throws bag of candy into the air and escapes in the confusion*

  13. hey guys, i’m a long time follower of IRA but i’ve never posted before.
    well i think it’ll be way more fun to acyually talk with yall instead of imagineing the conversations in my head haha.

  14. Caption: Having sex the first time was fun… but after having your wood beat a thousand times, it starts to lose its pleasure.

  15. @dynamicentrance: I promise if it is humanly possible to send a package from the U.S. then I will send a prize to that winner.

  16. @Acklikxx & Dish11: YOSH!!!! Welcome to WRA and glad you decided to comment. Now all you’ll have to do is upload a picture to your gravatar so you don’t look like freakish monsters from a ‘Sesame Street Special’ gone wrong and we’ll be cool. Lol, jkjk…not really, please do upload a pic. 😉 Oh, and if you’re One Piece fans you’re automatically awesome in my book!

    @Glen: Hey dude, yeah I remember you. I know you were on IRA long before I was so I’m not gonna say “welcome” to WRA. I’m just gonna say YOOOOSSSSSHHHHH!!! 😄 And your English is pretty good.

    @Gavin (finally 😉 ): Excellent job Gavin first off. Do you mind if I gave my opinion on some things? Ummm…ok the line separation doesn’t work out quite well in my personal opinion. The pictures are great for separating different topics as Hellyeahjay said. The breakdown is a little short but this is your first one so who cares? I’m sure it’ll be longer in the future as you work out your own style.

    Now for all the good, which trust me far out way the bad. The breakdown was hilarious! “IT’S OVER 9000!” XD! Never before have I seen audio used in these breakdowns before so that’s a neat addition, and you have so many different angles to approach this new feature from. Can’t wait for what you come up with next time. The ‘Previously on Naruto’ post is great for a jumping point for the newest breakdown. It kind of flows one into the other… And the caption contest is new and funny. Who doesn’t like making funny captions? Last but not least you had a lot of Sakura bashing so, YAAAAAAAY!!! So overall great job Gavin and can’t wait for the next chapter! 🙂

    @Anyone: I thought the chapter was pretty good. I explained some of the reasons why on the previous post. I just want to say I still believe Team Hawk has a good chance of finishing off the rest of Konoha…killing its people. Unless someone here can tell me of any good ninja left to fight Sasuke? Naruto, Kakashi, Tsunade, and any other good ninja are either out of chakra or hurt still. According to you’ll Danzo can’t even fight so overall Konoha is left bare open for the taking. Look how the Cloud Ninja just waltz right in and they even said there were no guards. If Sasuke arrives soon enough he has it in the bag.

  17. @supertrek- since you just said that this chapter was good at the end, i quickly erased every thing else you said and assumed that you’d gone barking mad( No offence though)

    @Gavinof(lol!)- nice breakdown, i liked the audio clips, they actually made me lol, but the breakdown ended too quickly, needs more written stuff too, the section approach was cool(and neat), but you’ve got to speak/write more….Kudos for the Audios
    “IT’S OVER 9000!!”
    Haahahahaa EPIC!

  18. CAPTION

    And then,the sallow skin…deepening dark circles…the out of control breath…the unending perspiration…yamato slowly morphs into Micheal jackson 😥

  19. This was an awesome post, Gavin. Easy to read and very clear cut. Good work so far on the breakdown, and I’m looking forward to more.

    When Tsunade gets up from her nap, she’s gonna be pissed. Hehehe, i’m guessing she’ll dominate Dbagzo. =)

  20. Great breakdown Gavin!
    At first, my reaction was ” it’s not funny! :(” until I got to the audio. Lmao! Keep up this unique style! It’s enjoyable! But one thing you failed to bash… Inari said that Sakura was “pretty” How could you not have had something to says about that? 😦 raaawr
    On a side note, are we allowed to send AMV suggestions to ScorpionLegacy?

  21. @Alexie: No – send them to reflex or supertrek

  22. CAPTION

    Making logs in private isn’t as easy as making them for the public.

  23. The audio clip to go along with the picture made this caption contest hilarious

  24. CAPTION:

    “Change my Daipers dude! I’m 47 YEARS OLD!!!”

  25. CAPTION:

    Damn I left Sakura alone with Naruto! AND I CAN’T FIND THEM!! WHAT HAS THAT CRAZY B$TCH DONE TO HIM!?

  26. I love this new style of breakdown. Don’t change anything !!

    @harshytkage: ??? Yamato’s only 26.

  27. jezz saukra was horrible this week…naruto nearly died as did hinata and SHE gets the right to be upset!? i dont think so..Looks like we’re heading for a naruto and sasuke smackdown people 😉 the winner gets the love and sasuke is gonna be the one with his face flat down in the mud crying about the madness..well he has news for him..THIS.IS.SPARTA!!!!!

  28. nice breakdown short and sharp

    naruto should have 1000 clones on the go rebuilding the village and i wonder how tsunade going to react about the necklace being broken during the fight if she ever wakes up.

  29. CAPTION:
    Damn teenagers, sitting on an old man’s wood.

  30. everyone’s talking about a naruto sausgay smackdown, but honestly i think that samui’s team (or Tits McGee’s team haha) is going to make contact with him first.
    remember danzo just gave them permission to take out sausgay

  31. Woohoo great breakdown Gavin love the sound bites and new sections =)

    I know we all said that Naruto would beat Sasuke when he was roflstomping Pain, but im starting to have second thoughts. Only because I reread the entire Itachi/Sasuke fight. Im thinking Narutos going to have problems with his speed and fire techs. Also Naruto wont have any answer for Kirin(for those of you who forgot, its the big lighting dragon that can kit the ground in 1/4 second or something). Maybe he can throw a Rasenshukiren at it xD.

    All this, and he still has his MS. Im not trying to praise Sasugay im just saying that Naruto will probably have to use Kyuubi/Sage mode to him a chance. And thats a good thing to me =)

  32. @supertrek- haha ya thanks man that gravatar looked retarded. i didnt even notice until you said something so thanks for saving me embarrassment.

    @fanboi-i agree with you for the most part, but rmember naruto in sage mode (which i too think would be sooooo tight of a battle) is pretty freakin fast too. there were several instances when pain would see him and then…he’d appear out of nowhere to the side of him. plus not many people give naruto enough credit for being smart. he came up with some amazing tactics in his fight with pain. that may catch sausgay off-guard cuz he still thinks he’s the stupid kid who couldn’t keep up with him at all when they fought at oro’s place.
    just a thought though

  33. @Fanboi: How could he ever throw a Rasenshuriken at it ?
    The Kirin is a flash, and takes a 1/4 of a second to it the ground. It takes like 30 seconds for Naruto to do the Rasenhuriken !

  34. @dish: Yup yup, the one thing I’m looking forward to in the Saucegay vs. Naruto smackdown is the emo having his ass wiped on the pavement because he’d underestimated Naruto. >) That’s bound to happen and you know it.

    @nagashi: You’re right about that, but I think Naruto wouldn’t let Sucegay use the Kirin anyway.

  35. @dynamicentrance- i agree it is going to happen. BUT, not yet. that battle will most likely be one of the final battles of the manga, if there is an end, and i definitely dont think we are to that point yet, do you?
    my point is naruto and sausgay will fight…but not for a while. which is why is said the cloud ninja team will fight him first

  36. i agree with dish11 on the speed issue naruto will be able to hold sasuke in speed and its more than possible he is faster than him now. naruto’s only problem is going to be genjutsu of any kind and now that he has 3 types of chakara that issue might be over. and naruto doesent even have to hit sasuke directly when he is in sage mode he floored that pain with a punch that didnt even connect one more thing rasen shuriken outclasses chindori by miles sasuke is going to be jelouse at naruto’s development.

  37. Top ten or twenty!

  38. hi there !

    thx of for the breakdown wasnt bad… actually youre pretty good but sorry to tell j-man was the best 😦 so fucked up ira closed… well anyhow we gotta get on!

    i like the idea of splitting the chapter into its characters and side plots thats a genius trick, but by giving the breakdown some aditional structure and making it easier to get the content it takes away the art beauty or soul (or whatever you wanna call it) of a freely written text, be aware of that man !

    btw good ol classics 🙂 over 9000 !! man i was laughin my ass off when i first read that stuff in the bubblecontest xD …
    same goes for starwars well life goes on time to get some new laughs isnt it 🙂

    whatever never mind the critics dude! i m looking forward to see you developing your own style and get wra to kick some awesomenessass!

    gl hf!

  39. and to get to the point! letz start and spread out some predictions!

    well my prediction for the next 2-3 chapters:

    sasuke arrives without confronting anyone. hell kinda sneak in or wait outside itll defenitly take him some chapters to get to konoha since there are some scores down there that have to be settled before that twist of the story can be made.

    meanwhile narutard and the others are having a hard time accepting d-bag as hokage (i dont have any idea at all how things are developing there but .. they will.) rumors were
    -naruto leaving the village
    -naruto being held in some kind of security system
    -n leading a revolution (no way that ll happen … even if i wont believe it)
    -d-bag just taking over control and living long enough to kick the alliance with the light dudes
    -and lots of others … you see cards arnt on the table yet.

    but letz get back to saucegay he ll never start attacking konoha cuz 8tail hasnt been captured yet! and sgay attacking konoha seems not to be in tobimadas likehood. since he seems to be putting the completition of his weapon first place on his chrismas whislist. therefore s-gay attacking kono eventually killing naruto is not in. which leads to the previous point how ll naruto take the new policy? is he goin to stay in kono?
    if thats it s-gay wont come cuz madara doesnt let him. if he leaves anywhere s-gay would come, kill d-bag and some others ,without being called back. pretty unlikely. why should kishi make d-bag hokage to just kill him off the next chapter without having changed a thing? nn danzo cant die yet. and why would kishi misteryously hint madaras doings if he wont be involved somehow…. very confusing. afterall this thinking/writing (dunno what i did first) this is ma prediction

    naruto being totally upset blablabla
    sgay arriving meeting inari + tazuna having a bad bad talk
    sgay meeting naruto + sakura talking some shit about revenge and how naruto understands now and doesnt understand nothing blablabla
    madara arriving and taking s-gay with him.

    during their talk some new stuff will probably come to light to get the new arc burning!

    d-bag doesnt die yet but ruins things with the lightnings.

    in the later future:
    tsunade gets back up and retakes here position just to prepare the seat for naruto … 😀 atleast thats what i hope for
    aswell as sai n saucegay gettin some shark stuffed up their asses by kisame who then appears to be the ultimate evil YEAH!

    ok thats it for me -.-” getting late here in good old germany

    cheers dudes ! letz have a drink on a nice start on wra!!!!

  40. one of the weirdest fanon theories is that danzo hates naruto and wants him out of the way. where exactly does this come from? i mean, yeah naruto is technically the descended student of danzo’s former rival, the sandaime, but nowhere does danzo indicate that he believes naruto is a threat and needs to be taken care of. the only person he’s been truly hostile to is tsunade, whose policies he disagrees with, and sasuke who is a missing-nin with a family history of being anti-konoha. yes, danzo’s a fascist, militaristic douche, but there’s nothing to support him hating naruto and locking him up as a “threat.” if anything, he’ll try to cozy up to the new village favorite/power bomb.

  41. Great job gavin! Short but sraight to the point.
    Caption: losing energy, huff! huff! Must make wood…. straighter and longer!

  42. I can’t think of anything that can beat that caption for Yamato …

  43. Great job Gavin! I really like your style….

    Caption:
    Tsunade said those little blue pills would help me keep my wood up, but it’s not……..ooooooh I get it now….

  44. @dish11….Tits McGee is Orihime! Man get it right!!

  45. Tonight I need your sweet caress
    Hold me in the darkness
    Tonight you calm my restlessness
    You relieve my sadness
    LOLOLOLOL i fell outta my bean bag from laughing that hard…
    If anyone wants to know the name of the song (it bugged me so i googled it) it’s Hands to Heaven by Breathe

    CAPTION
    All wood (work) and no play makes Yamato a dull boy…

  46. @ Sakura sulking: Well, cmon…she WAS her sensei for 2.5 years…
    but Sakura has matured in that she’s thinking of Naruto’s feelings rather than hers…

    O yeah, btw…Sakura cheers up thanks to Naruto later on…:P

    damn super and his eyes like a hawk when it comes to seeking out Sakura bashings

    -__-

    cookie!…glomp super 4 me!

  47. Damn straight dro! Sakura is aload to sulk once and awhile tsunada, ment alot to sakura. She’s worried that tsunada might not wake up. She did also cheer naruto when he got back gave him a hug for crists sake. (runs from all the sakura haters, while throwing candy to appease them)

  48. @everyone:

    Hmm i guess your right, sage mode increases Narutos speed drasticly. I wouldnt go as far to say that Naruto is faster but he could definatly keep up. If Naruto can grow a stronger bond with the Kyuubi, then genjutsu wont be a problem. We’ve already seen Sasugay get owned so we know it can happen again.

  49. CAPTION

    So this is what being “Second” feels like.

  50. yeah bottom line is naruto has to win however its done, cant go killing of the main character. if i remember correctly when sasuke was fighting the 8 tails and was on deaths door he had a flashback of that picture of team 7 so he still has some feelings for them so it still may be possible for him to be turned after naruto has put him down just like all the others lol.

  51. CAPTION

    “…”

  52. Great post Gavin. So much to like about your style.

    Love the “previously on Naruto”

    I personally liked the separation/line/caption between sections.

    The audio was a very nice touch – hey if we’re multi-media let’s use it 🙂

    As for content of the chapter 451 itself – hmmm…well interesting. I was disappointed that there wasn’t more Shikaku (alas, but then again I would be.) because the political intrigue is fascinating.

    I agree with the previous poster that Danzo wouldn’t necessarily hate Naruto, indeed if he’s out to kill Sasuke then Naruto could be his best weapon of choice if he could just convince Naruto to see the wisdom of his (Danzo’s) way.

    Danzo is a jerk, no doubt about it, shameless self-nomination, taking advantage of Tsunade’s current state, etc.
    But in all fairness to the jerk, one can be a jerk and still not be evil. I am curious to see how this all turns out.

    Okay, I never ever ever entered the old contests, so you’ve inspired me, here’s my first contest attempt:

    CAPTION:

    “AGAIN?!? My God woman, you’re insatiable.”

  53. 😦 IRA’s closed… 😀 HELLO WRA!!ooooh yeaaaahh!!
    I predict Naruto is going to be a biatch with this new order on sasuke’s head. C’mon he won’t stand for this sh!$. But in the end he’s going to play along and then go try to befriend sasuke regardless >..< .. then its going to be completely AWESOME!!
    BUT..that fight won't happen anytime soon..even they do meet up Naruto will probably freeze up again at the thought of having to kill his first love (remember their kiss..hahahaha)
    Then Madara's going to stop the fight and vanish into thin air and we'll be stuck again like wtf!?

    Caption:
    *gasp* just shut up and get in quickly, we have 4 hours before these viagra pills ware off..you think a woody this big comes easy???

  54. CAPTION: (Rated R) 😄

    “It was never easy for Yamato! Just imagine all the splinters he must get from stroking his wood.”

  55. @gavin: wait, wait, wait… let me get this straight…WE GET A PRIZE FOR THIS!? O_O this better not be one of those scabby ones you found it a gift shop.. i’m talk high street prizes..and hey if you get a discombobulated sasuke then i’m taking the head!!! i lost my football over that fence >_> <__<

    @dro : pfft i'm with super here on the sakura bashing 😉 she was too mean in this one with her whole "me me me" thoughs..NARUTO AND HINATA( AND KONOHA for that matter) NEARLY DIED!! and what no-one is comforting sakura? QUICK GET THE WOMAN A TISSUE!! WE ARE HEADING FOR A WATERFALL HERE!!

    well it's official ..cookie has taken a vendetta against danzo…well i'm all for seeing a tsunade vs danzo fight 😀 hey we don't even know how tough he is…i mean he doesnt carry that stick around just to give those whippersnappers in root a good wacking on there er.. bottoms?

  56. CAPTION
    Everyone has to say ‘Tiiimmmmmbbbbeeerrrr’ at some point…

    @Gavin- awesome breakdown, I really liked how you made sections for your different topics, made everything flow very nicely 🙂

  57. CAPTION

    I see dead people !

  58. Hey there!

    Sorry for the late post, but the weekend was busy. ^ ^
    Anyway, just wanted to say nice breakdown. It looks like Naruto was really pissed at the end of the chapter, so I am looking forward to seeing how he reacts.

    Now…. on to business… AHEM!!!!

    *Glares at Marksman*

    I have been recently challenged to a debate by my good friend and eternal rival, Marksman, (Gai and Kakashi kind of rivalry) as to whom would win a battle between Kisame and Kakashi.

    In my oppinion, Kisame would win a battle between the two. I have my reasons for saying this and I could list them, but I wanted to start off with just saying that…

    … I am here and ready to rumble!!! 😄

    *waits for my rival to make a dynamic entrance and debate me properly*

    P.S. anyone else who wants to join in, feel free, it will only help bring back that IRA feel even more. Or you can just watch and enjoy. ^ ^

  59. CAPTION

    Damn, that was harder than I thought. And to think that Anko’s still gonna expect me to erect some more wood for her later tonight…

    (OMG!!! I don’t normally say things like that. O_O)

  60. Lakers 09 NBA Champions!!!

  61. CAPTION

    Pain destroyed my secret stash of marajuana. *pant* need *pant* kronic.

  62. ahh yes, bbgurly has the right idea…see cookie? it’s ‘Timber’ not ‘Timbo’

    BTW who was it exactly that saved Hinata? eh?

    Sakura is allowed some time to sulk when her teacher/mentor is in a coma for an unknown amount of time or if she’s even going to wake up at all. Who exactly was she mean to? She cheered Naruto up! She kept her thoughts to herself, geez u guys are hard to please…If i remember correctly Naruto was a bit bratty when Jiraya died, but he was allowed to be…

    *sigh* anyway…back to the fun…

    CAPTION (Also Rated R)

    New forehead protector to protect you from oncoming objects? 1,960 yen. Tissues to wipe your nose? 490 yen. Hand Lotion to get keep your hands nice and smooth? 686 yen. Sweat on your brow after a long days work of erecting wood? Priceless.

  63. CAPTION

    ah man I totally thought that those male enhancements commercials were BSing about being able to have wood for 36 hours….shit they weren’t kidding!

  64. Wow I really hope Naruto and Sasuke’s expected confrontation isn’t as predictable and safe as the last ones have been. It seems like every confrontation they have is always painfully the exact same format. Naruto and Sasuke unexpectedly meet with Sasuke in the process of accomplishing something much greater, Naruto shouts “I will bring you back!” about 78 times, Sasuke then runs away completely uniterested while Naruto is shouting “Wait! Sasuke!!” and he chases Sasuke until Sasuke is forced to acknowledge Naruto in a very insiginificant and half-hearted way in which Naruto goes on the defensive and Sasuke takes the opportunity to yet again, dissapear for another few archs until they both do it all again. I seriously hope there is some relationship development in this next confrontation. It seems like Kishi has set it up to be one of their most intense and emotional ones yet, so I seriously hope we don’t get the same thing. As pussy as it sounds, I hope they become -slightly- closer to how they were pre-Shippuden era. I want to see them friends again wether blatantly or not. The hostility between them is getting old, but I think Kishi has set this confrontation up to have a lot more substance than there last ones. Ah well, if all else fails, Naruto’s determination to bring Sasuke back has never wavered so if they do re-enact the same old scenario, at least Naruto’s determination will hopefully be there.

  65. The breakdown was really cool @Gav!!congrats!Oh my! @GLEN!!!!!you’re back!!!hahahaha 😀 okaeri!

  66. @daisy i totally agree with you..let’s hope that the upcoming confrontation between them is more intense and emotional..i wish that this would be their last and biggest fight..hm.. 🙂

  67. @ dro : she is just saying timber…it means nothing!! it’s TIMBO I SAY!!! *will never admit if she is wrong…but is soo right in this case*. it must be your weird way of saying it over there, i call it timbo…you must of picked it up wrong…the both of you!!

  68. Hmm that cloud ninja the one with the big rack looks kinda like Tsundade..

    I love OMOI he’s so hilarious, especially the part where he says ” Im afraid that she might want us to commit suicide together”! Rofl!!

    I hope he plays a longer part in Naruto than just delivering the message.

  69. NO cookie! its timber – sorry but u fail 😛
    😄

  70. DAMIT BB!!! BETRAYAL!!! UTTER BETRAYAL!!!!!! >_<
    *not changing mind here* IT.IS.TIMBO.

  71. Oooh. This right here is the 70th comment.

  72. Well, it’s been long since I commented here *puts away popcorn and takes off 3D glasses*, looks like it’s time for some work *sigh*

    @cookie: I shall be betrayer: it’s timber. *hears scream of rage* Well, it’s not as bad as I thought it would be. *sees cookie with chainsaw* O_O”

    @daisy: yup yup, many points you have there. i really wish Naruto would break Saucegay’s neck in this one, at least *notices she’s strayed off topic* and a lot of emotionality to you too! ^^”

    @nagashikage: and this here’s the 71st 😄

  73. @cookie: stop making up wrds! that’s it, Reflex, get the body-bag! You were warned.

    @Dynamic: what were the 3d glasses for?

    @Nagashi: u just don’t learn *cracks knuckles* lol.

  74. Ah found the cd!! Mudshovel, mudshovel!!

  75. @Dro: Must.resist.Sakura.bashing!!! >_> <_<

    *Overcomes temptation* YAY! *secretly writes Sakura bashing anyway and waits to post it at a later date* 😉

    @Daisy: Good points. Yeah, let’s hope that doesn’t happen again. Kinda makes Naruto look like a weak ass b**ch…I don’t even know why I censored that.

    @Cookie: Ummmmmm….*secretly whispers TIMBO FTEW* I hope I didn’t yell out that last part… >_> <_<

    @LokiAnarqui: Yeah Omoi is pretty cool but it's all about Karui. She's funny, she's awesome, I bet she's strong, and she's BLACK! OMG, about time you put a hot black female in the damn manga Kishi! Nuff' said! 😉

  76. Awesome breakdown gaven. Pure awesomeness bro. Looking forward to your next one. Keep up the awesomeness bro.

    Now to the matter at hand. *looks around and see supertrek , mudshoval , darkadvatar, cookie , tiny noooooo, and dro along with bbgurly*

    Guys its been a while sence we had a good debate. What do you say we kick wra off to a great start with a great debate just like old time at iareawesomeness.

    *Looks at tenria my worthy advesary whos standing arms crossed patently awaiting my respones.

    Ok Lets do this.
    Kisame Vs Kakashi. Ok the last water ninga kakashi faught kakashi owned him. Whats makes kisame any different. Since there last incounter kakashis body has become more and more imune to the effects of the sharingan. And now he posses ms along with new lightning jistus. Kakashi can kopy kisames water tecks as we have seen in there last encounter. In the fight of tijitsu i give it to kakashi because of the sharingan. No doubt kisame has a much greater chakra pool then kakashi so he wins in that battle but. I seriously doubt hed be able to dodge kakashis attacks.

    Looks at tenria and super*

    I dilebaratly made stubborn and valid points you guys can easily argue against. I seriously want everyone reading this to throw in there 2 cents in this debate.

    Bring it own!!

  77. @cookie- TIMBER All THE WAY!
    Timbo
    Timbo is a town in the Fouta Djallon highlands of Guinea, lying north east of Mamou, in a part of the country mostly occupied by the Fula people. It was formerly an important religious centre and is still known for its eighteenth century mosque. It is also known for its vernacular architecture, for the local mountains and for local wildlife, including chimpanzees and rhinos.
    ***got that off of Dictionary.com*** fail for you!!!
    what. now. huh? 😄

    @Marks-
    This is an awesome debate. I was talking to Mud about this for a little bit (a very little bit) and we both metnioned the large chakra reserves that Kisame had. This is what I think would give him the only edge over Kakashi. Below are my reasons of why Kakashi will be victorious:
    1)Lightning beats Water (obviously)
    2)We all know its not what elemental or certain type of technique a person fights with, but how that technique is used. Kakashi is very skilled in this area and has a whole arsenal of copied jutsu to choose from.
    3)Kisame is a one-dimensional fighter- elemental wise. (right? we’ve seen only water based moves)
    4) Kisame’s sword makes him very cocky, and at times leaves him open for attacks

    Well that’s all got right now… Its late and I need to get some sleep for school 😛

  78. you know what i’d like to see on here…those match-up things (temari v konan, etc.)

  79. supertrek89 – Lmao yes loved the part where Omoi and Karui argue. Haha lets just hope they stick on for a bit. It would be nice if Naruto hooked up with Karui … hmmm or the other ninja with rack… that would be very interesting indeed. Too bad it’ll happen. Lmao yeah having a black chick by Naruto’s side will be most advantageous!!

  80. @Loki: Yeah, you know what they say; once you go black, it’s relatively difficult to go back. LoL.

  81. *enters conference room looking a mess with random branches stuck in hair* *sits down like nothing happened* *pulls out phone and call someone* hello? yes i would like to volunteer mud and reflex for test subjects for you spinach missile? lets just say neither one of them can tie a bag properly…-_-

    @bb: oh so we are going to play it like that then?okay then..two can play this game.”Timber is unincorporated community in Washington County, Oregon, United States. Timber’s population is 131, its ZIP code is 97144, it has 59 housing units and its land area is 17.45 square miles, with a population density of 7.51.” straight from wikipedia 😉

    @dynamic: *quickily hides chainsaw* how did she know i had one of those? *looks around for hidden camera* *notices one beside a piece of haggis* *gasps* O_O STALKER!!! *pulls out spinach missile!!* you are getting the same punishment as mud and reflex!!! eat spinach!!!

  82. Damn i knew we should have used zip ties. o well, u live u learn. I think the trick worked, no made up words in there. MUHAHAHA the plan was a success 😉 not to mention u stopped saying ‘Timbo’

    Spinach Missile? *Leaps out of the way*
    Geez cookie way to take a ‘I’m going to kill u joke’ and make it serious 😛
    *Throws mud pie at missile*
    *the resulting explosion destroys Canada*
    >_> <_< – Cookie did it *points at cookie while running away*

  83. @mud, cookie: cookie was in Canada? O_O I wanted to go join too T.T
    Wait… now I’m safe from the new improved version of the spinach missile turbo 3000! Take THAT cookie!
    Oh DAMN! A friggin SEAGULL just CRAPPED ON MY WINDOW! I am NOT kidding! This is why I HATE living in Helsinki! Stupid birds… *takes out spinach missile launcher*
    “We’re having fried seagull for dinner tonight, mom!”

  84. *inhales air* TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIMBO TIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! >__<

  85. OH HOLY MUFFINS!!! first i blow up their national airplane and now the country *holds suitcase in both hands* well i am taking a short break *runs away from the angry canadians*

  86. ok so is this the end. kakashi beats kisame so easily eh?
    well im ok with that :p

  87. avatar check 🙂

  88. ah!changed 😀

  89. @Nagashikage : Amen!!! Seriously would love it if naruto hooked up with someone outside the village!!

  90. @Marksman: Hahahaha, not so easy bud. Now my laptop is on the fritz right now, so I won’t be on WRA as much. Let me just leave you with this short counter argument. 😉

    Kisame beats Kakashi hands down. The last strong water ninja Kakashi fought was…Zabuza? NANI? That weakling (sorry Zabuza fans but it’s true)! 😛 Kisame is 100X more powerful than Zabuza ever was. I mean come on. The dude got caught buy a bunch of nin dogs and couldn’t break free?

    Lol, not only this but Kisame’s partner for years (Itachi) was the ultimate sharingan user. Kisame’s seen the sharingan in fights dozens of times and probably knows how it works inside and out. He even knew about one of the sharingan’s most valued secrets Amaterasu. There’s no way Kakashi’s inferior sharingan would catch Kisame off guard, put him in genjutsu, or vanquish him into another dimension.

    In a fight of taijutsu Kismae would win because Kakashi can’t get close enough to Kisame without that sword getting in his way. If Kakashi tries to block the sword Kisame would just overwhelm him with pure strength. Remember Kisame overpowered Asuma with just one arm while Asuma was using two! Once Kisame overwhelms Kashi the sword comes swinging down and if it even grazes Kakshi’s skin and makes a cut there goes some of Kakashi’s valuable chakra. Not to mention if the sword makes full contact.

    Last but not least I’m sure Kisame knows more than just water jutsu. Ninja of the Jounin level are at least required to know two elements. This is a S Class ninja of Akatsuki level we’re talking about here so we know he has something else.

    I’ll stop here because my battery is about to run out. I could go into how Kisame’s sword would drain Kakshi’s already low supply of chakra, or how kIsame’s humongous chakra pool gives him total stamina advantage over Kakshi’s signature chakra pool. Maybe I could go into how Kakashi was so easily caught and would have been killed by a ninja of Zabuza’s rank if it weren’t for two Chunin level ninja who came to rescue him. Now you pit him up against a ninja of Kisame’s rank>? 😉

    That’s all for now. 0_0 I got one minute to post this or it’s all lost! >_<

  91. @supertrek. Now thats what im talking about bud. nice counter argument man. its gona be hard to argue against that.

    Unless of course you are ahsan mudshovel or marksman hehe.

    Marksman <—— still has ego probs

  92. Arggghhhh (Pirate Growl) my battery is about to run out again…it’s complicated. >_< I await whoever responds. Lol, take as many shots at my argument while I go out to buy a new AC Adapter.

  93. Alright… now it is my turn to add to the Kisame/Kakashi debate…

    Now we all know Kakashi has a wide variety of ninjutsu, is skilled in taijutsu and even has access to genjutsu as well, but that does not gaurantee victory.

    Now, there is the point of the Sharinga. Everyone seems to be steering towards the idea that whoever has the Sharinga in a battle is immediately determines the winner. It is always the fallback in every debate and it is always put on a pedistal.

    To be honest, Kakashi got captured the first time he fought Zabusa, and if it weren’t for Naruto and Co, he would be dead. That is the way it is. he had the Sharingan, he used it and he got pwned.

    The second time they fought, Zabusa used his mist to obscure Kakashi’s vision, which worked for a while. Messed up vision = Sharingan fail. Kakashi countered by using his blood to track Zabusa using his ninken. However it still proves that the Sharingan is not perfect.

    Kisame knows about the Sharingan due to his partnership with Itachi, so he will know how to counter it. I also doubt he would fall for the same trick as Zabusa and he has been noted as the most powerful of the seven swordsman of the mist.

    Also, he has defeated a Jinchuuriki who could use elemental attacks and fusions, by himself, so he has proven that he is capable of handling those kinds of attacks. Kisame also froced Gai to open some of his gates just to defeat him at 30% strength, even though Gai has been known to match kakashi in battle. (Say what you like, but the facts are stipulated in the manga).

    That is my argument for now. Kisame is not an S-rank missing nin because he looks ugly. He has immense chakra reserves, super human strenth, very powerful water based ninjutsu and a sword that seems to be able to absorb endless amounts of chakra. He is powerful and I think he may be a bit too much for Kakashi to handle by himself.

    Now, let them come and face me… *searches for the next challenger* 😄

  94. tenrai this is my first write in this argument so ill start fromyour last comment .

    1-kakashi got caught becouse he had to take care on ino and choji.in a mano to mano fight every thing would have been diffrent

    2-when you talk about zabuza , its a freakin long time back ,just at the start of the series.from that day till now kakashi and his sharingan skills have improved to a great deal,his ms is a proof of it

    3- taking out an opponent with a jinchukri and elemental fusions doesnt mean he is very powerful.the fact that he has a great chakra bank and powerfull ninjutsu is well known.but when it comes to insane power v.s mind of a smart ninja like akakshi
    it has to be the mind.you do remember that kakashi has fooled people like itachi (who has one of the best sharingan) in a battle.and also pain(who has a freakin rinnengan)

    also to add to this you do remember that when itachi and kisame came to konoha .kisame was blocking kakashi and was going to fight him but ITACHI STOPPED HIM. knowing kakashi’s strenghts.

    there is no way kisame can beat kakashi in nijutsu becouse he know all the elements.in genjutsu its the same case .so can kisame depend only on ti-jutsu.where as in speed kakashi is just a little faster than him .furthermore he has the sharingan ,with the help of which he can see trough all ti-jutsu attactks.not to mention ms is always a reserve.

    now AHSAN IS BACK .BRING IT ON

  95. hell yes marks …..KAKASHI FTW

  96. @Ahsan

    Hmmm, he challenges me…

    Very well, let us take some more recent examples then, shall we. For example, the battle with Deidara. Kakashi was at full strength at the begginging of the battle and he had Naruto backing him up, while Deidara only had one arm and had just finished sealing bijuu. Look how much trouble he had just taking off one of Deidara’s arms.

    Kakashi also had his almighty MS, which I might add he was unsuccesful in defeating Deidara with. He was also rendered exhausted after using it and (once again) went into hospital for a week or two because of it. Sorry to say, but when your own jutsu sends you to hospital or kills you (in the case of his battle with Pein) I don’t consider it that almighty.

    Now, not to be funny, but if Kakashi misses Kisame with his MS, it is over. Also, Kisame has shown he is quite powerful when it comes to Ninjutsu as well. Creating an entire lake of water to use for his Suiton jutsu, even though he only had 30% chakra, shows that he has more than enough capability in that regard.

    As for the Sharingan seeing through Taijutsu, once again, you cannot rely on your eyes all the time. Sharingan this, Sharingan that. Lee defeated Sasuke despite the fact that he had his sharingan because he could use his speed and power to his advantage.

    The Sharingan lets you read your opponents moves, but that does not mean you will be able to match them, especially if you don’t ahve the speed or strength of the person using them. If his sharingan is all that, how come Gai has been known to defeat him and Gai is a Taijutsu only user?

    Also, as soon as Kakashi starts using the Sharingan, his chakra depletes rapidly. That is why he only takes it out for the most dire circumstances. In a battle agaisnt Kisame, who has overwhelming chakra reserves, time is against him and if the battle gets drawn out, he will deplete his own chakra. Even against one of Pein’s bodies, Kakashi died because of his OWN techniques.

  97. @supertrek: Yeah Kisame would destroy Kakashi. It took Guy 6 chakra gates to beat 30% of Kisame’s power. That’s … frightening. So, I’m sure Kisame could beat Kakashi and Guy at the same time. Kisame FTW. Even though Naruto would kick his ass all the way back to Kirigakure.

  98. i said he also has ms as a RESERVE

    about the battle with diedra do u remember that it was the first time kakashi used the ms ,he did not knew it used so much chakra ,after that batlle he has used ms in only very very crusial times ,as to save choji life against pain.

    in ninjutsu if i correctly recall some elements are superior to others kaakshi can simply use water counter welemnt ninjutsu.

    did you miss my point i said kakashi is ahead in speed than kisame ,and the sharingan can allow him to read his moves thus with his speed he can dodge his attacks

    if it comes to time he has to end it quick and with his arsenal of jutsu ‘s he can do that

    furthermore you didnot address that if genjutsu is used what will kisame do .i dont think he can counter it,

  99. @nagashikage kakashi beat 30 % itachi easily .of course itachi is better than kisame

  100. @ahsan:*gasp* Are you saying … because Kakashi beat 30% Itachi that he could beat 100% Kisame because Itachi is better than Kisame ?
    Come to think of it that makes no sense. Kakashi couldn’t beat 100% Itachi, and there’s no proof that tells that Itachi is better than Kisame. Just because Itachi is more of a pimp doesn’t mean he’s stronger. Itachi would probably only be better than Kisame because of his Sharingan.

  101. are you even trying to suggest kisame is better than itachi?

  102. @Ahsan

    He did not beat 30% Itachi easily, he needed Naruto’s help as well. Also, remember Kisam mentioned that because of their chakra restriction, they were also restricted by what jutsu they could use.

    I doubt we have even seen half of Kisame’s most powerful jutsu. Also, speed does not always determine the winner. Speed means nothing if you can’t get to your opponent.

    For example, Lee’s battle against Gaara, he was faster and seemed to gain an edgem but in the ends he was defeated even when he opened his gates and went all out. Kisame has his sword to deplect attacks and to absorb chakra. He also has a strength advantage and he can transfom the battlefield into one that is favoutable for him.

    Kakashi may be faster on land, but A shark is always faster in the ocean. 😛

    Also, Kisame was not made Itachi’s partner for no reason. Akatsuki members are partnered because they compliment eachother (like how Hidan and kakusu used their ‘condition’ to an advantage) and even Deidara and Sasori were similar in their strength. Kisame is probablt around Itachi’s level in strength as well and if that is the case he would definitely pwn Kakashi.

  103. Damn, lots of typos. LOL!

  104. @ahsan: is there proof that says he isn’t ?
    Itachi can’t be stronger than Kisame just because you want him to. We’d have to ask Kishi, it’s up to him.

    @Tenrai: You said a shark was always faster on land … which brought me to think, who’d win between Kisame and Halibel ?

  105. tenrai your arguments are good

    you dont even seem to read by post .i said that speed along with sharingan was his way to dodging ti jutsu ,

    kakashi alwasys prepares a battle and with his mind has the ability to turn a shitty situation in to a greatwin he would probabaly bring kisame out of water,

    i agree with kisame bieng near to itachi but not equal to him

    now you not answering to the ninjutsu question mean kakashi has the edge in ninjutsu , then in genjutsu too and he can dodge ti jutsu with his speed and sharingan

  106. @Ahsan

    I am reading your points, and I adressed the Sharingan issue already beforehand. I already stipulated that reading a persons moves are not enought if you can’r match them, then I also mentioned that speed does not always determine the winner as well.

    As for the Ninjutsu, I did not see anything that pushed me to argue any points about that. However, if you are suggesting that Kakashi can simply use a jutsu that is strong agaisnt Kisame, I am afraid it is not that simple.

    According to the rules in Naruto, earth beats water. Now, that is all good and fine, but if there is only water around, what good will earth do you? If Kisame makes the entire battlefield his playground, it meanst that he makes the rules.

    Also, it has been suggested that even if an element is superior to another, it can still be overwhelmed if the other has more force or power behind it. (in the way that Kakashi’s Suiton jutsu was overwhelmed by Kakusu’s fire jutsu being enhanced by wind). If kisame had more force behind his attack, he can overwhelm Kakashi’s jutsu, which would be reasonable for him considering his chakra advantage.

    As for genjutsu, Kisam eis no rookie and genjutsu can be broken. Sakura as a genin managed to break Kabuto’s genjutsu when half of Konoha’s populace at the Chunin exams were put to sleep. Unless its Tsukyomi, or an extremely advanced genjuts, it can be broken and I am sure Kisame has more than enough expereince to do so. Kakahsi has used genjutsu, but never anything overwhelming or powerful, so assuming he can do anything close to what Itachi can do is just an assumption.

  107. tenrai enhancement fromanother attack is diffrent from just increasing the power of the attack

    i am saying that the sharingan can allow the user to interpret othes move right so withthe speed kakashi has he can DODGE kisames’s ti jutsu’s

    there are many ways kakahi can use water against kisame by doing l.b in it. u can t say that kakashi will be no match for kisame cuz he is in w ater

  108. @Ahsan

    LOL! It looks like the battle is between us now. Well, enhancing a jutsu’s atack power, whether it is with another jutsu or more chakra, is still the same. Fire is still fire, whether the wind blows it or not, the damage is still in the burn.

    Also, once again, I understand where you are coming from with the Sharingan, but I will say again that it is not enough to simoky say that it gives him such an absolute advantage. If that is the case, then we might as well forgo any argument with any future debates that have anyone that uses sharngan, because people just fall back onto the same arguments and assume that whoever hold the sharingan is superior.

    To put it plainly, the sharingan is just another form of perception, just like smell, sight, hearing, etc. Take away Kakashi’s sight with mist for example and he has lost the edge you claim he has. There are so many ways to obscure someones cision, even Jiraiya did it against Pein, so relying too much on sight is a sever disadvantage.

    Also remember that the longer Kakashi uses the sharingan, the more to his disadvantage it will be.

  109. P.S> ‘Simoky’ is supposed to be ‘simply’. LOL!

    DAMMIT! 😄

  110. Deidara was on a bird and very far away…Kisame isn’t that type of fighter…he likes to be in the nitty gritty…Kakashi has very good hand to hand skills, a nice set of ninjutsu that will keep the opponent at bay, and if he just activates his regular Sharingan, Kisame’s sword swipes would be easily dodged.

    Isn’t it that the opponent has to come in contact with his sword so that it can drain chakra? If Kisame’s sword can’t hit Kakashi…then how is it expected that he’ll drain his chakra?

    Also Kakashi was able to use MS twice during the ‘Rescue Gaara Arc’…once when he caught Deidara’s Arm…and then again to stop the Explosion from causing any damage.

  111. 2 things i do not agree with the jutsu enhancement theory of yours

    and i just say that it can give him the edge in DODGING

    about mist a wind attack can blow away the mist

    im getting really sleepy its 4 am so lets talk in the mornin

    well get others views too

  112. dro he used it thrice go and check i mean the ms against diedra

  113. Hmm, where to begin?

    Well, I’ve always been a fan of IRA – not an actual poster mind you, but an avid “guest” always seeing the witty comments and back and forths between members. Well seeing as IRA is down, and WRA is up and running, I’ve stepped out of the shadows so to speak.

    Any ways, that’s my short intro, just wanted to say “Hi.”

  114. Return of Marksman. The Incredible Marksman that is hehe.

    Ok to the debate.
    Tenria you have have put up an excellent debate so far. and you too super. But i faail to see how kakashi sharingan in inferior to itachis my friend. There sharingan is different. Its true kakashi cant put ppl in tysumi but i dont see itachi warping explosions! :p

    What good is superhuman strenth if your opponent runs circls around you. In this case its kakashi running circle around kisame. And last i check kakashi could copy water jitsu with the same power behind it as his enemy. Everyone knows lightning defeats water easily. And if kisames in the water all kakashi has to do is charge a chidori in the water and kismae is done.

    And last i checked kakashi body has become far more imune to the effects of the sharingan becuase the last time he used agaisnt hidan he used water and fire ninjitsu and 3 chidoris along with sharingan am=nd DID NOT HAVE TO REST IN A HOSPITLE like the last times.

    I know kisame knows about itachis sharingan but he has never actually fought agaisnt it. I seriously doubt he would be able to counter it effectively seeing how he doesnt even know kakashi has ms and what it does. And if kakashi can warp an explosion huge explosion after two attemps before hand of trying to kill dodria im pretty sure he will easily be able to warp kisame and his body of water and still have chakra left just in case he missis. But kakashi missing now is very unlikely

  115. marks my friend you are back with a bang

  116. when it comes to tyjitsu kakshi has the battle won as proven plenty of times before in the past agaisnt hidan who could even touch kakashi and it was like 4 one one. And he dodge the double team with his speed and sharingan. So when it comes to tyjitsu kakashi has the advantage

  117. i see you still got fire in ya ahsan as well as ive seen you good and valid points. Kakashi FTW all the way ahsan

  118. FACTS

    a random pickup from naruto wiki about kakashi ;s abilitis

    “His knowledge of jutsu is so high that he is requested to watch over Naruto should the seal of the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox begin to fail. A true testament to his skill is during a conversation between Jiraiya and Tsunade, mentioning that if the need should ever arise, Kakashi would be an obvious candidate for the title of Hokage, implying that his powers are of Kage-level.[1] Both are proven to be true when Kakashi’s name as Sixth Hokage is highly considered by the Fire Country Council.[2]”

    we all know itachi was a yard faster than kisame what do we have here

    “These general abilities are greatly improved between Part I and II. In Part I, he has been shown to be unable to keep up with Itachi Uchiha’s physical and hand seal speed, even with the use of his Sharingan. By Part II, he is able to keep up with Itachi’s immense speed, if not match it. The speed and proficiency of his hand seals have also greatly improved as he is able to performed highly complex jutsu much faster to the point of becoming a blur and with much fewer hand seals.”

    chakra level

    “His chakra level sees a similar improvement as well; In Part I, his chakra levels have been shown to be barely average. By Part II, his chakra is shown to have greatly increased as he can perform several chakra-taxing jutsu in rapid succession, even increasing the number of times he can use his Lightning Blade per day, using 6 of them in one battle, and still having enough chakra from to plan using the Mangekyo Sharingan. ”

    what kisame lacks anylasing skills

    “Kakashi’s naturally calm attitude is used to his advantage in battle, allowing him to stay collected and out think the opponent, similar to Shikamaru Nara. This is primarily because he can quickly analyze the situation at hand and comprehend his opponent’s abilities and battle tactics. After doing so, he can use sharp intuition to make quick and firm decisions to switch to the appropriate counter tactics.”

    use of traps ,battleing while protecting comrades

    “Against more powerful opponents, he regularly uses various misdirection and trap tactics to weaken them. Kakashi is also highly proficient at evasion, as shown when he was able to fight on par with Hidan, and later with Kakuzu, while simultaneously avoiding taking damage and protecting Choji Akimichi and Ino Yamanaka. ”

    knowledge of elements

    “Kakashi primarily relies on his mastery of ninjutsu to which he has a vast arsenal of. In his moves list, he can attack or defend against opponents in numerous manners. While used less often, he has also shown to have impressive skills in genjutsu, which he could use to throw off his opponents as a set-up for stronger attacks. In addition, he has proven to be very adept in taijutsu, which, combined with his impressive speed, allows him to effectively catch his opponents off guard and evade attacks. Moreover, he has shown high skills in areas such as tracking, trap-making, survival knowledge, and sealing jutsu.”

    use of these elements

    “In addition to the sheer number of jutsu at Kakashi’s disposal, he is an even more formidable opponent from his extensive knowledge and skill at elemental jutsu for he has shown high mastery for his natural affinity towards lightning chakra, even being able to perform lightning-based jutsu without hand seals. Thanks to his skill along with his unique chakra and Sharingan, he is also highly capable, if not proficient, at multiple elements. His proficiency in earth and water-based jutsu have proven to be at master-level might as he is able to perform earth-based jutsu with great detail in their shape[4] and is able to perform water-based jutsu without an existing water source nearby”

    so tenrai he too can make water like zabuza

    about shaeingan

    “Even Itachi Uchiha, a true heir and master of the Sharingan, acknowledges Kakashi’s superior proficiency with the Sharingan compared to most true Sharingan wielders.[6]

    Sometime between Naruto’s departure and his return to Konoha, Kakashi seems to have extended the amount of time he can sustain using the Sharingan as he is seen using it for seemingly a day while testing Naruto and Sakura. ”

    ok now bring it

  119. @Ahsan

    I would be carefull about using sources like Wiki, etc for your argument. It would do you better to use the source itself, rather than a community based information centre.

    After all this info is gathered by the community and placed in an easily accesable archive, but it is also subject to the interpretation of the author of those articles. Now, I will debate with you on your points, but for now I must be off. It is late here)

    All I will say for now is that you can praise Kakashi all you like and put forward all of his good atributes, but despite his knowledge and capabilities, he has still been bested by others as well. Including Akatsuki’s own.

    Kisame is no pushover wither and probbly warrants just as much praise. He would not be a part of Akatsuki otherwise and I doubt Madara would be sending him after Bee just to watch him die. He obviously has reason to believe that Kisame could succeed where Sasuke failed and that gives us reason to believe he is very powerful.

  120. @ Ashan-
    WOW I just read that whole comment of yours @.@
    great points, Kakashi can definitely be the victor in this battle with everything you have stated.
    This is a true battle of Brains VS. Bronzes 😄 and obvious Kakashi has both of these qualities.
    But I have to ask, did u get this from wiki? cause then the info can be questionable- I’ll agree with Tenrai on that.

    @cookie- WIKI LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can’t trust that junkz!!
    and by the way I used Reference for your ‘timbo’ word because it does not exist in the dictionary. However, TIMBER does. Its an interjection that means “12. a lumberjack’s call to warn those in the vicinity that a cut tree is about to fall to the ground.”
    You can look it up youself. REAL PROOF OF VICTORY!!

  121. good job Gavin, i loved IRA and WRA looks promising keep up the good work 🙂

  122. kakashi has ONE main advantage over kisame…. his lightening based chakra. water is weak against lightening. we have yet to see kisame at full power, so who knows if he can use genjutsu. he seems to be even stronger than zabuza, and lets not forget what happened the first time they fought. kakashi got caught in his water prison jutstu. gai’s whole team had a hard time with a clone using only 30% of kisame’s power. we know he has a hell of a lot more chakra than kakashi as well. guess we just won’t know till we see the fight. oh, and spoilers are available.

  123. @redshota: This isn’t Pokemon, this is Naruto. Water is weak against Earth.

  124. Naruto Chapter 452
    Source: 2ch
    Credits: Nja
    Verification: Confirmed
    Forum: ttp://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50026

    Spoiler #1
    Credits: Nja

    んじゃ簡単に

    そんな事許せねえとダンゾウに文句言ってきてやる!とナルト

    カカシがそんなことやめろと一応お偉いさん方で決めたものなんだ
    下手したら牢屋にぶち込まれるぞ…とにかくツナデ様が目覚めるまで我慢するんだ。。。

    ダンゾウへ

    サイにナルトが馬鹿な事をしないか見張っておけと命令
    理由は(今のナルトは英雄・自分より名声が高い為そんなのを罰したら
        里の民が暴動を起こさないとも考えられるため)

    んで命令を受けたサイがナルト達に合流
    ナルトがダンゾウってどんなやつか詳しく教えてくれとサイにいうが
    ダンゾウは根の者すべてにベロに呪印を施し
    秘密をしゃべった者は痺れて動けなくなるとサイが言い(まあしゃべったら死)
    だから無理だと…

    いきさつの知らないサイへ説明~
    んでサスケ始末の許可をあいつが出しやがったんだ~

    ってしゃべってるのを雲隠れの使者に聞かれ
    戦闘に

    サスケって奴がうちの師匠を拉致って~

    お互い本気を出してないがサクラ吹っ飛ばされナルトもふっ飛ばしちゃう
    くらいの実力者→黒い奴2人

    なんでサスケがそんな事を~?

    使者が 今は暁にいて雲隠れを襲って師匠をらちりやがったんだと聞き

    みんな驚いた所で 完

    背表紙はちっこい蛙 名前忘れたw

    Spoiler #2
    Site:NF
    Credits: Fugetsugym

    んじゃ簡単に

    quick sum up

    そんな事許せねえとダンゾウに文句言ってきてやる!とナルト

    Naruto says he won’t allow that kind of crap and is going to complain to Danzo

    カカシがそんなことやめろと一応お偉いさん方で決めたものなんだ
    下手したら牢屋にぶち込まれるぞ…とにかくツナデ様が目覚めるまで我慢するんだ。。。

    Kakashi stops him, saying that the big wigs made the decision, play your hand poorly and you’ll end up in the brig. Just hold out until Tsunade-sama wakes up.

    ダンゾウへ

    To Danzo,

    サイにナルトが馬鹿な事をしないか見張っておけと命令
    理由は(今のナルトは英雄・自分より名声が高い為そんなのを罰したら
        里の民が暴動を起こさないとも考えられるため)

    He orders Sai to keep an eye on Naruto and make sure he doesn’t do anything stupid (the reason being that Naruto is the hero and has more fame than Danzo, if Danzo doesn’t manage Naruto well, there would be an uprising by the villagers)

    んで命令を受けたサイがナルト達に合流
    ナルトがダンゾウってどんなやつか詳しく教えてくれとサイにいうが
    ダンゾウは根の者すべてにベロに呪印を施し
    秘密をしゃべった者は痺れて動けなくなるとサイが言い(まあしゃべったら死)
    だから無理だと…

    The thus ordered Sai returns to Naruto, Sai, Kakashi. Naruto asks Sai about Danzo, but Sai can’t talk because all the Root members have their tongues sealed, if they spill any secrets, they will freeze up (in short, if they talk, they’ll die), so Sai can’t say anything

    いきさつの知らないサイへ説明~
    んでサスケ始末の許可をあいつが出しやがったんだ~

    They explain to Sai who doesn’t know the whole story, about Danzo giving the order to take out Sasuke

    ってしゃべってるのを雲隠れの使者に聞かれ
    戦闘に

    The Hidden in the Clouds guys here and spring into battle mode

    サスケって奴がうちの師匠を拉致って~

    Sasuke kid-napped our teacher

    お互い本気を出してないがサクラ吹っ飛ばされナルトもふっ飛ばしちゃう
    くらいの実力者→黒い奴2人

    While neither group is going all out, the two “black” (sorry, that is what the Japanese says) ninja school Sakura and Naruto, that’s how good they are

    なんでサスケがそんな事を~?

    Why would Sasuke do that? (Naruto obviously asking)

    使者が 今は暁にいて雲隠れを襲って師匠をらちりやがったんだと聞き

    みんな驚いた所で 完

    The Hidden in the Clouds say that Sasuke is now in Akatsuki and he attacked their village and kid-napped their teacher. Everyone’s jaw drops and the chapter ends

    (on the binder is one of the small frogs, forgot his name)
    背表紙はちっこい蛙 名前忘れたw

    Spoiler #3
    Site: NF
    Credits: Nightjumper

    Naruto says that he won’t allow this.[Danzou becoming Hokage]

    Kakashi tells him off, saying that it’s what the higher-ups have decided for the time being, if he’s[naruto] is unlucky, he’ll get thrown into jail[for opposing Danzou]… At least until Tsunade wakes up.

    Scene change to Danzou

    Danzou orders Sai to make sure Naruto doesn’t do something stupid
    The reason why, is because Naruto is a hero right now. He’s more popular than Danzou. Punishing him[naruto] could lead to the people of the village revolting.

    After receiving his orders, Sai goes to meet up with Naruto and the others.
    Naruto asks Sai what Danzou’s like,
    Sai says he doesn’t really know him, but Danzou donates curse marks/seals to all members of Root. Sai can’t talk about classified info, because everyone who has, has fallen over unconscious.(Talking = Death)

    Some prehistory on Sai
    [Unsure]Then the guy who authorized taking care of Sasuke, comes out.

    [Unsure]They hear the Cloud ninja talking.

    “That Sasuke guy abducted our master(s)”

    [Something about Naruto and Sakura not making a mutual effort, and either getting pissed off or brushing their worries off]
    A dark influential person –> Two dark persons

    “Why would Sasuke do something like that?”

    [Something about the present time, Akatsuki, Kumogakure, an attack, and master being abducted]

    Everyone is surprised by this

    Spine is of some small frog, Nja forgot his name

    Spoiler #4

    Source : 2ch
    Credits : Nja
    Translation : fugetsugym
    Verification : Confirmed

    使者は強いんじゃないですかね~?
    刀で戦ってたけど男が 本気で斬るなよって斬
    女にいって女が    わかってるよって
    その後
    サクラ吹っ飛ばされて
    ナルトも吹っ飛ばされてたんで

    re these guys strong or what?
    They fight with swords, the guy says, “Don’t cut them for real!”
    The woman says to the other, “I know!”
    After that, Sakura is blown away, as is Naruto.

  125. @Ashan, Marksman, and Dro: I see you’ll are ganging up on Tenrai eh? Now that I got my new AC Adapter let me lay it down for you’ll.

    “kakashi got caught becouse he had to take care on ino and choji.in a mano to mano fight every thing would have been diffrent” (Ashan)

    Ummm…I don’t know what battle you’re talking about Ashan because Ino and Chouji weren’t even there when Kakashi was caught in Zabuza’s water prison. In fact I don’t think those two characters were even introduced. If you’re talking about the battle with Kiakashi vs. Hidan & Kakuza Kakashi was never even caught in that battle. Maybe you got your information mixed up? The battle Tenrai and I were referring to was Kaskashi vs. Zabuza.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/13/07/

    As you can see Zabuza easily caught Kakashi as he foolishly (it says it there itself) tried to escape in the water. Now, as Tenrai pointed out many times already, if Kisame can turn the whole battlefield into water how could Kakashi escape?

    So yes, in a mano to mano fight everything would have been different. Zabuza would’ve won and Kakashi would be dead. If it weren’t for Kakashi’s little helpers (Sasuke and Naruto) that is. You say that was a long time ago. Lol, yes it was 3 years ago but let’s put it ALL together. Kisame has always been stronger than Zabuza by far. It says itself that Kisame is the strongest of the 7 Swordsman of the Mist. We all know this already.

    Now you say for those 3 years that Kakahsi has trained, he’s gotten stronger, and his chakra has improved. Ok…yes this all true but what do you think Kisame has been doing for all of those 3 years. Sitting down drinking beers and getting fat? HA! No, he’s been training too. He also has trained, gotten stronger, and improved his immense chakra supply. All ninja train and strive to get stronger this much is obvious.

    So putting it all together what do we have? Zabuza almost defeated Kakashi 3 years ago if it weren’t for two little Chunin. I’m confident in saying that Kisame who is stronger than Zabuza could have defeated Kakashi in the same manner plus the two little Chunin, especially with his sword. Fast forward 3 years and we have both a stronger Kakashi and Kisame. What are the odds that Kakashi could win now by himself against an opponent he would’ve been massacred by 3 years ago? Remember that they have BOTH improved.

    Moving on…

    You laid out great praise for Kakashi bravo Ashan we all know he’s a great ninja. I couldn’t do the same for Kisame because we don’t know as much about him. This debate though is not on how great and what awesome qualities these two ninja posses but on what they could do to win in their fight. What you need to do is take all those points you made and apply them to the fight. Still as Tenrai said and what has been proven over and over again in the manga. Even with all of those great qualities our sharingan using ninja possess he has been bested.

    Anyway once again taijutsu Kakahsi is good in but can he even get close enough to Kisame?

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/17/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/18/

    As you can see the sword doesn’t even have to physically touch you to drain your chakra reserves. It “eats” your chakra just from the swing of the sword being near you. Kakashi’s relatively low supply of chakra plus chakra eating sword that doesn’t even have to touch you = Kakashi at a even more disadvantage (most likely his loss).

    As Tenrai was also pointing out can Kakashi really counter with the same level of Kisame’s ninjutsu? He can copy it all he wants but there’s no way in hell he can put up as much chakra into the attack as Kisame. If you deny this then your giving Kakashi imaginary chakra reserves. It doesn’t matter if Kakahsi can counter with a lighting jutsu because water jutsu is not weak against lighting…it’s weak against earth! Now if Kakashi decides to counter with earth jutsu it doesn’t matter if the water jutsu Kisame uses is of a higher level because that makes the strength/weakness system of elemental attacks obsolete. Overall, if Kisame uses a jutsu that takes up 3/4 of his chakra Kakashi is screwed.

    1. He can’t dodge it because an attack of that magnitude is always to fast and/or massive for an opponent to dodge and must be countered with an even more powerful attack.

    2. If he tries to copy it he’ll either die from using up all his chakra or try to tone the jutsu down and wind up having Kisame’s jutsu overwhelm his and come crashing down on him.

    Not only this but Kisame has more than just water jutsu. It’s already been said that ninja of Jounin level are required to know at least two elements.

    Now for the sharingan *sigh* use it if you got it right? 😉

    Itachi and Kisame have been partners for years right? Kisame is quite knowledgeable of the shringan because not only did he know about Amaterasu but he saw it in action. He saw Tsukoyomi in action too so he knows about its genjutsu. True he doesn’t know about MS but let me show you something.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/05/ (Deidara says, “What’s…this?!”)

    In other words when it’s happening to you…you can feel it! *GASP* Which means you know it’s coming leading up to it’s avoidable! *DOUBLE GASP* And look what happens when Deidara is smart enough to just simply move out of the way the second time rather than just go straight and see what happens to him.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/11/ (OMG, Kakashi misses?)

    Yeah, the first time all Deidara does is fly straight, looks down at his arm gaping, and then he loses his arm. The second time he’s actually smart enough to simply dodge the attack. Yes folks, the attack is avoidable and Deidara just proved it himself.

    Tell me this. Why do you think Kakashi hasn’t used MS on a nin ever since that battle even in dire circumstances? He didn’t use it on Hidan, Kakuza, or Pein. Why not? Hmmmm…maybe because Kakasi knew (he is soooo smart after all 😉 ) all that the nin has to do is jump the hell outta the way and Kakashi misses. He learned from Deidara avoiding it and ever since he hasn’t used it on a target that could simply move out the way because he knew he’d be wasting precious chakra.

    Sure Kakashi warped an entire explosion….or did he?

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/278/02/ (Here’s how it starts)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/278/06/ (Here’s how it ends)

    Notice the area covered by the explosion…yeah not that big is it? The explosion wasn’t at its entirety. He got it while it was still young which is a good thing. The point is as far as we know that is the magnitude of area Kakashi can warp into another dimension. HA! A ninja of Kisame’s level can clear that area radius quicker than you can say TIIIIIIIMMMMMBOOOOOOO! 😄 So if the MS is avoidable and Kakashi misses and we know how much chakra it uses…what then?

    I think this is sufficient enough. I still have more to say but I will wait for your counter arguments before posting what I have left.

    *Mutters something about people spamming the sharingan in these debates. Sharigan this sharigan that sharingan everywhere! No ingenuity in these fights! >_<*

    Lol, jkjk…I think…

  126. @ nagashikage: dude… seriously?! remember what happened in the anime when kakuzu caught ino and choji and shikamaru used the water scroll to shock him, with the help of his own mask/creature/thingy. also, if ur one of those ignorant (which you seem to be by refuting something this obvious) ones that choose to view the anime as not quite canon to the manga, there he’s a lil something for ya http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/412/002/ . that’s right, guess who’s weak against lightening, dumbass. how fucking old are ya anyway? pokemon? for real. do ur research b4 u try to argue with someone.

  127. aight, here we go. fire is strong against wind and lightening, but weak against water and earth (to a lesser extent, apply to all the seconds); wind is strong against lightening and earth, but weak against fire and water (hope your applying that rule of seconds); lightening is strong against earth and water but weak against wind and fire; earth is strong agianst water and fire but weak against lightening and wind; water is strong against fire and wind but weak against earth and lightening.

    there you have it, the circle of elements, anyone who things only one element is strong against one other really can’t be serious. doesn’t even make sense.

  128. What the hell’s with Naruto??? One moment he kicks the Akatsuki leaders ass. Now he gets beaten by cloud ninja!! Damn you kishimito couldn’t you have at least kept Naruto stronger for a little while!1

  129. Well, it is good to see Super backing me up. 😀

    I was fighting the good fight against numbers superior to my own, but now the odds have evened a bit more.

    Anyway, it seems a science lesson is in order. Some people seem to be suggesting that lighting will beat water etc, and I can see where you are all getting your ideas from (TV tends to bend bend and exaggerate reality a lot) but the truth is water is NOT a good conductor of electricity.

    Pure water is actually a very poor conductor of electricity (you can look it up if you like) and unless it is more acidic it wont carry it very well.

    “Conductivity Principle:

    An acid or base which strongly conducts electricity contains a large number of ions and is called a strong acid or base.

    An acid or base which conducts electricity only weakly contains only a few ions and is called a weak acid or base.”

    (We learned this in science class in any case, using an experiment that tested for acidity in water.)

    In other words, the more acidic the water is, the stronger its conductive properties are. So unless Kisame uses acidic water specifically in his jutsu, the argument of lighting beating water is invalid. Now, if you get in a bathtub and throw live wire into it, you will obviously get shocked because of the smaller volume of water in question and the high voltage of electricity, (hence Shikimarus success against Kakuzu using that strategy) but in a large body of water, it would take an immense amount of electricity to actually effect you.

    Of course, it is possible for the fantasy world to exaggerate these situations, but in truth Kakashi would need to put a shit load of chakra into an attack to just tickle Kisame from any reasonable distance, if he is using water as a ‘conductor’ to attack him. That would be a waste of chakra as well.

    Up close it is anyone’s game really, and it would make more sense to shove a chidori straight into Kisame rather than to try use water as a medium for his attack. Of course, Kisame is not just going to ‘let’ Kakashi impale him and that big sword is not just for show.

    Anyway, this also explains why earth is weak against lightning (metals are a great conductor of electricity). After all, when you have a thunder storm, the lighting tries to “earth” itself, so the elemental weaknesses do make sense in that regard.

  130. super good points now let me counter ….

  131. srry i was talking about kakashi v.s kakauzu not zabuza

    about kakahsi progressing ,u know that even though kisame would have preogressed ,he could still not progress at the rate kakashi did.getting ms though not of uchiha blood ,and not killing a friend is a proof of that.

    super kakashi is good a ti-jutsu and we all know he has the speed advantage against kisame right?
    so with the slow vision sharingan gives him he can easily get close to him and even avoid his sword. though not always.

    u say that water is not weak against lightining though i know not i agree but kisame is weak against it right

    a lightining blade in the water and kisame does get shocked right, if he doesnt jump out right ,a shawdow clone distraction and then even a l.b in the chest .u know kakuzu said he couldnt even sense kakashi comming towards him, right and he fooled hidan easily with shawdow clone,he fooled PAIN too ,the leader of akatsuki.

    so if kisame does a powerful move as u say

    what will happen

    1-kakashi dodges?

    as i said earlier with his speed and the slowed down vison he gets with sharingan he can dodge it ….

    2- he counters?

    its difficult but countering with a low powered attack will give him the time to dodge very easily

    3-he fully counters?

    he does a heay attack

    like his wolf lighting blade or a defensive move like earth wall earth is powerfull re,member

    now finally i adress ms

    first of all as i already said he used the ms first time on diedra so he didnt=ot knew how it went and how much chakra it took
    if i remember right he sasid it wasnt fully complete or something

    now why hasnt he been using ms

    simple it takes too o much outta him,he uses it as a last weapon in his arsenal ,as itachi used susano’o it has the same effect on kakashi as susano’o has on itachi ,in one way … they both die by over-using it

    ms is kakashi’s last hope and according to me he has till now after dieddra used only to sae lives of comrades,i still think he hasnt fully masterd it ,

    about the size of the ms wrapping its dependent on chakara as during pain batlle kakashi said “with my current chakra level his whole body is out of the question ,”

    dont trust me check on onemanga

  132. @redshota (in reference to your reply to nagashikage)

    I would try to be a bit more civil when you debate with someone. This is not an argument, so there is no need to get iffy. It was started so that we would have something to discuss this week, not so that we could tear each other apart.

    As for research, I have given you mine as to why Lighting would NOT be effective against water, so the homework has been done.

    I also did not think age was important regarding who can have an opinion, nor their preferences with regards to what shows they watch. Try not to be so rude just because someone is stating their own point. There is no need to be disrespectful.

  133. @ashan

    Check my comment about Lighting vs water… ^ ^

  134. Hmm…I can’t really say who’d win in a fight between the Sharingan Kakashi and one of the great Swordsmen of the Mist (not sure if that’s what they’re called now). I reckon it would be similar to the Zabuza fight since they are both “Swordsmen of the Mist.” It’ll be a fun fight to watch…or read as the case may be…

    @Redshota: Here’s a chill pill and a glass of water…you really look like you need it…

  135. hello guys, i\’m new in this whole posting thing. I\’ve followed IRA for about 10 months and since we got a new site i figured it would be a good time to become a poster.
    *Wait for a while till someone gives him a warm welcome* =)…

    Random info about me: I dont hate sasuke (i dont love him either), NaruHina fan (damn that hinata is one hot piace of @ss), Sakura hater, i love penny\’s anime breakdown, big supernatural fan (go sam and dean!), not from the us so my english might suck, and i pretty much always agree with supertrek (i know… wierd).

    now..business… like redshota, i also thought that the naruto universe followed the pokemon element thing (silly me) but since some of you pointed out that it didn\’t i went and research a bit. turns out that pure water is not a good conductor but water with salt or any mineral is. My point is that if kisame creates the lake or sea or whatever then kakashi is pretty much screwed (i\’m asuming kisame uses some sort of destilled water) but if they fight in a sea or a lake then kakashi gets the upperhand. (Yes i know they are still in kisames \”hood\” but a few chidoris would do the trick).

    @Captain pickles: i had to write this post 3 times from strach since i had problems with wordpress so i hope you don\’t mind if i take that chill pill :).

  136. Goddamit naruto pull yourself together!!! Your a sennin now kick some cloud ninja butt!!

  137. @supafreak17

    Hello supafreak17… this is your warm welcome. Glad to have you with us and I hope you enjoy your stay. 😀

  138. @supafreak17 welcome

  139. Welcome supafreak17! Don’t worry, we all find ourselves agreeing with super sometimes. That’s when we need all the other people here to give us a good bashing and tell us not to act insane. ^^

  140. @superfreak17. Well i’d welcome u but u agree with supertrek – so that can’t happen. lol jkjk.
    Since you’re another supertrek sympathizer, we’ll be on the opposite side of most debates and murder trials 0_0 . lol.
    Welcome dude and let the mayhem begin 😛

  141. @superfreak17 …….I THINK YOU ARE THE START OF A CHAOS

  142. u guys seem to be forgetting that the naruto universe doesnt exactly follow the normal laws of physics and chemistry and such. remember the beginning of the shippuden:bonds movie when sasuGAY used his chidori wave or whatever on the water? ok, don’t really see kakashi doing that, but u get my point. and who said anything about shocking the water in the first place? lol, wouldn’t he have to be standing on top of it to do that? wouldn’t he get shocked as well? all i said is that kakashi has the element advantage (as i laid it down earlier) and seriously…. once again… pokemon? lol, corniest shit i ever seen (cept for power puff girls z….dont judge me, i have younger siblings). still think kisame would kick his ass. he was getting handled by zabuza and i don’t think zabuza is anywhere near kisame’s level. type advantage wouldn’t mean much if it came to a drawn out fight. with kisame’s huge chakra reserves, kakashi might be visiting dear old dad once again for smores and scary stories.

  143. @redshota
    ima have to agree with youh. Kakashi would have his a$$ handed to him by Kisame and let us not forget that Kakashi’s sharigan would become inaffective against the hidden mist technique

  144. Ok supertrek. This argument is directed strictly to you. then i will mover on to others

    Well for one you say kisame wasnt just sitting on his but. You say he was also training for those three years. But you fail to provide proof of this my friend. You forget that while kakshi was improving and training kisame was part of akustki doing missions. If anything kisame was doing missions and tasks not training and if he did it wasnt as much as kakashi did because kakashi had way more time on his hands.
    Ok kakashi vs zabaza. For some reason we can only remember how kakashi got owned in there first encounter. We dont seem to remeber there second encounter when kakashi owned the s*** out of him. Kakashi said he had underestamated him the first time. SO the second time the faught kakashi didnt make that mistake. And look who came out on top. :p So i guess its fair to say kakashi is better then zabuza to when he took him more seriously and didnt underestamate him there second incounter. So what do you know? Kisame and kakashi both were better then zabuza.

    ok kakashi has copied strong attacks before in the past AND NEVER RAN OUT OF CHAKRA BECAUSE OF IT. He copied kisames water attack and zabuzas and still had plenty of chakr to spair. Let think about this guys! kakashi has copied 1000 jitsus. Im pretty sure he has copied jitsu stonger then both kiame and zabuza in still won the fight. The proof is HE IS STILL ALIVE FROM COPYING ALL THOSE JITSUS. Jeez the way you guys are talking kakashi should have died from the first jitsu he ever copied from exuaghtion. -__-“?! When in the manga has kakashi ever goten tired after copying a strong jitsu to the point he couldnt continue the fight?
    U can try and find it super. Good luck.

    Super you said :1. He can’t dodge it because an attack of that magnitude is always to fast and/or massive for an opponent to dodge and must be countered with an even more powerful attack.)

    I beg to differ. If i remeber corectly when kakashi got double teamed by hidan and the other guy and they used that high level wind jitsu kakashi dodge it. He didnt have to pull out a jitsu as strong as it he just simple dodged it. WHy can kakashi dodge these highmagnitude attacks! Oh thats right! Becuase he has sharingan! *gasp* Oh no!! WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT -__-“?!

    You guys say that kisame is filmiliar with the sharigan. You are apsolutly correct. He is filmilur with itachis sharagan and its weaknesses because he seen him in battle.
    But HE IS ONLY FILMILIAR WITH ITACHIS SHARINGAN! Not Kakashis who Ms abilities are complely different. Kakashi has the element of surprise in this arerea. He can catch kisame just like he did deidarea becuase they dont know anything about it. And since kakashi only uses this jitsu as a last resort and he has improved since the first time he caught diedaria, kisame avoiding this is very unlikely.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/05/ (Deidara says, “What’s…this?!”)

    In other words he noticed something was happening but didnt know what was going on or about to happen, hence the two words he asked himself “Whats this?!’ Common since can b a b**** eh super :p

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/276/11/ (OMG, Kakashi misses?)

    OMG HE missed?! Really?! WOW! I MEAN ITS NOT LIKE THIS IS HIS FIRST TIME USING IT AND STILL DIDNT KNOW HOW TO CONTROL THE SPACE AND SIZE OR ANGLE HE WAS TRYING TO CAPTURE!!.

    oh wait it was -__-“?!

    Super you said:
    Tell me this. Why do you think Kakashi hasn’t used MS on a nin ever since that battle even in dire circumstances? He didn’t use it on Hidan, Kakuza, or Pein. Why not? Hmmmm…maybe because Kakasi knew (he is soooo smart after all ) all that the nin has to do is jump the hell outta the way and Kakashi misses. He learned from Deidara avoiding it and ever since he hasn’t used it on a target that could simply move out the way because he knew he’d be wasting precious chakra.)

    You have no proof of this my friend. I mean it wasnt like kakashi said he only uses his ms as a last resort because it uses up his chakra to the point he has to rest for periods of time.

    Oh wait. Thats exactly why -__-“?!
    Or mabey he just didnt get the right oppurtunity to use it?
    Nah who am i kidding, that cant be it!! *im being sarcastic if you didnt notice*

    You know what. You are absolutly correct about the explosion. But wow. kakashi use Ms 3 times in one Day!! im impressed. I wonder how many times he could do it now since his body is becoming more and more imune to the sharingan. Enough to kill kisame.
    And that explosion was still relitivly big. I mean look how small it made rock lee and neji look.

    im finished for now though guys. i still got more to say but ill wait.

    *mutter something about ppl spaming about the sharigan because the fact of the matter is it help him defeat enemies in the past and can help him kill kisame*

    hehe score one for the marksman :p

  145. I’m a kakashi fan, i like him and i also know how powerfull he is but… we never saw a REAL 100% kisame fight we nevah saw using that many techniques only saw a couple wid Gai vs kisame fight.
    Here’s a question when sasuke made his 1st chidori vs gaara didn’t the crowd said “what amount of chakra is that” so if chidori is a huge amount of chakra compressed wid in the hand wid lighting element won’t it happen the same dat did wid naruto’s rasengan? it wud have been absorbed by kisame’s blade?
    Anyways why is so many statements we know we shudan’t discuss this much cuz kishimoto isn’t the type of guy to simple go with “reasoning”!
    For the record, if SHARINGAN is that great shudn’t sasuke evah evah win VS naruto? yeah guys (Sasuke hater).
    Anyways we didn’t saw even half of what kisame gots offer cuz we don’t got almost any info bout him unless that he gots the BIGGEST chakra suply on all AKATSUKI

    Best regards and plis don’t hit me,

    Acky =P

  146. @SUPERTRECK

    hey guys just redirecting this comment to super as its an answer to his questions

    srry i was talking about kakashi v.s kakauzu not zabuza

    about kakahsi progressing ,u know that even though kisame would have preogressed ,he could still not progress at the rate kakashi did.getting ms though not of uchiha blood ,and not killing a friend is a proof of that.

    super kakashi is good a ti-jutsu and we all know he has the speed advantage against kisame right?
    so with the slow vision sharingan gives him he can easily get close to him and even avoid his sword. though not always.

    u say that water is not weak against lightining though i know not i agree but kisame is weak against it right

    a lightining blade in the water and kisame does get shocked right, if he doesnt jump out right ,a shawdow clone distraction and then even a l.b in the chest .u know kakuzu said he couldnt even sense kakashi comming towards him, right and he fooled hidan easily with shawdow clone,he fooled PAIN too ,the leader of akatsuki.

    so if kisame does a powerful move as u say

    what will happen

    1-kakashi dodges?

    as i said earlier with his speed and the slowed down vison he gets with sharingan he can dodge it ….

    2- he counters?

    its difficult but countering with a low powered attack will give him the time to dodge very easily

    3-he fully counters?

    he does a heay attack

    like his wolf lighting blade or a defensive move like earth wall earth is powerfull re,member

    now finally i adress ms

    first of all as i already said he used the ms first time on diedra so he didnt=ot knew how it went and how much chakra it took
    if i remember right he sasid it wasnt fully complete or something

    now why hasnt he been using ms

    simple it takes too o much outta him,he uses it as a last weapon in his arsenal ,as itachi used susano’o it has the same effect on kakashi as susano’o has on itachi ,in one way … they both die by over-using it

    ms is kakashi’s last hope and according to me he has till now after dieddra used only to sae lives of comrades,i still think he hasnt fully masterd it ,

    about the size of the ms wrapping its dependent on chakara as during pain batlle kakashi said “with my current chakra level his whole body is out of the question ,”

    dont trust me check on onemanga

  147. @super and tenrai

    “His proficiency in earth and water-based jutsu have proven to be at master-level might as he is able to perform earth-based jutsu with great detail in their shape[4] and is able to perform water-based jutsu without an existing water source nearby”

    kisame uses water right ,kakashi can also use water at master level
    and as u said earth is stronger than water ,he is master at earth jutsu too

    now when u say that kisame has atleast two elements:ok i say i agree”kisame has two elements”

    but do you forget that a person who can use all 4 or 5 elements is his match so it means that if he has another element kakashi has its counter elemetnt already!

  148. Testing new grava… again… damn you for not changing it stupid computer…

    @the kakashi/kisame debate: I’d say Kakashi hands down, simply because Kishi wouldn’t let one of the main characters die like that. But if I were realistic… I’d say it all depends on the place and the advantages and most of all, luck. It’s impossible to actually tell because they’re both incredibly strong. While Kakashi has an elemental advantage, Kisame has the samehada, so it would depend on how they were using those advantages *shrugs*

  149. MARKS MY FRIEND U COME OCASSIONLY BUT YOU RULE MAN YOU RULE

    THE INCREDIBLE MARKS MAN FTW

  150. @dynamicentrance

    MY FRIEND YOU SAY

    “But if I were realistic… I’d say it all depends on the place and the advantages and most of all, luck”

    IF YOU SAY THINGS IN SUCH OVERALL WAY I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT KAKASHI HAS ONE ADVANTAGE EVEN IF THE ODDS ARE AGAINST HIM

    “Kakashi’s naturally calm attitude is used to his advantage in battle, allowing him to stay collected and out think the opponent, similar to Shikamaru Nara. This is primarily because he can quickly analyze the situation at hand and comprehend his opponent’s abilities and battle tactics. After doing so, he can use sharp intuition to make quick and firm decisions to switch to the appropriate counter tactics.”

    WHEREAS KISAME’S ANALYTICAL ABILITIES ARE NOT THAT GOOD

    I RESPECT YOU FOR SUPPORTING KAKASHI ,BUT SAYING H WILL WIN BECOUSE HE IS A MAIN CHARACTER JUST ISNT RIGHT ..

  151. @ Ahsan:… obsessive much? ^^;
    I SHALL NOW TYPE IN CAPS EVEN THOUGH WHAT I’M SAYING IS TOTALLY NORMAL.
    And you have to also remember that Zabuza was, technically, quite weak, but he still managed to own Kakashi at first. It was pure luck and coincidence, because obviously Kakashi was stronger, but it happened. So what I’m saying is… who’s to say that Kisame, being at least ten times stronger than Zabuza, would not be able to find a way to beat the copy nin? All abilities and advantages are worth nothing if you make a single mistake and that’s possible on both sides.

  152. true but two things one kakashi is much stronger than before

    and the probability that kakashi makes a mistake is far less as (i quote my self again)

    “Kakashi’s naturally calm attitude is used to his advantage in battle, allowing him to stay collected and out think the opponent, similar to Shikamaru Nara. This is primarily because he can quickly analyze the situation at hand and comprehend his opponent’s abilities and battle tactics. After doing so, he can use sharp intuition to make quick and firm decisions to switch to the appropriate counter tactics.”

  153. gezz dude ahsan ur taking this wayyyy to serious and going for the violent psychomaniac path.

    @dynamic i don’t believe in what u say cuz also Erosenin *.* was a main character and got killed,yeah i know, i can’t compare dem but still, this is all about Impact and selling copies.
    In ma way of seeing i still say that kakashi wud prolly be defeated he’s still not that strong, kakashi had his as* beat when he faught kakuzu he almost got defeated if nsruto and yamato didn’t got there, yeah he wud think a way, prolly wud it be soon enuf or it wud be possible to get it done, this is all about prediction what wud happen so why don’t u take it easy and expose ur arguments calmly and accept others opinion U CAN’T and i underline CAN’T force ur opinion into others ITS UR OPINION so anytime u get like that yell inside ur house and don’t come here being that kind of a jerk cuz we’re all being friendly unless u
    got it?

    Best regards Acky ^^

  154. @everyone: thanks :)..

    Eventhough i agree with what tenrai and super said, i’m still gonna go with ahsan and incredible on this only because kakashi is pure AWESOMENESS! I know this is not a “valid statement” but W/E! i know all of you guys want kakashi to win so F$ck it! KAKASHI FTW 🙂

  155. @Supafrak: Hahahhaa, welcome to WRA and if you find yourself agreeing with me most of the time well that’s just because I’m usually right. Lol, right now for instance I’m in amidst a debate of Kakashi the Copy Cat Ninja vs. Kisame who single handedly took down a Jinchurki and captured him alive. Now we all know it’s harder to catch someone alive than dead. I see you voted for Kakashi based on popularity. Yeah, that’s how he usually wins in the end around here…LMAO I digress, welcome to WRA and enjoy your stay! 😀

    @Marksman: Well now I see you came back with a bang. Saying I don’t provide proof? LMAO, you’re right Marksman you’re right! 🙂 I don’t have proof that Kisame, an S Class ninja, ever trained over those 3 years. I don’t have proof that this NINJA trained to improve his abilities or got stronger. Who am I to think that “training” is what ninjas do? Especially over a 3 year time period I’m quite sure now that I’ve been set straight that Kisame just did missions for Akatsuki and neglected to train. LOL, how foolish of me Marksman I sure glad you brought all of this up…

    Moving on…

    Enough of the sarcasm. 😉 As it is impossible for me to provide proof that Kisame trained it is just as impossible for you and Ashan to provide proof that Kakashi’s training improved him beyond Kisame. Yeah, we have proof that Kakashi trained but do we have proof that Kisame didn’t train and that Kakashi’s training somehow surpassed Kisame’s? We don’t know how much Kisame trained, how much free time he had, or where his power level is at right now. (IT’S OVER 9000 XD) Lol, couldn’t resist. What we do know is that Kisame beat the 5 Tailed Jinchuriki by himself though and that Kakashi’s been getting his ass kicked recently…just saying… >_>

    Kakashi got beat by Zabuza the first time. Kakashi had his precious sharingan out and yet was still beaten. In the end Kakashi was saved by Naruto and Sasuke and he had his second chance. Zabuza lost because Kakashi outwitted him. Great job Kakashi. How much stronger does that make Kakashi than Zabuza? Lol, because Kakashi beat him does that make him much stronger? Well in that case Zabuza would be stronger than Kakashi because if it weren’t for Naruto and Sasuke he would’ve killed Kakashi the first time they fought.

    If you look over the fight again both Kakashi and Zabuza underestimated each other. Zabuza underestimated Kakashi’s sharingan and was thrown off by it. Kakashi underestimated Zabuza’s strength and water jutsu. Both were almost on equal level and the fact is Kakashi won by outwitting his opponent (I.E. tracking his blood through the mist and using his nin dogs). In the end it doesn’t make Kakashi that much stronger than Zabuza just because he won the SECOND time around. Sure he was stronger but barely. Kisame was much much stronger than Zabuza then and in comparison is most likely much stronger than Kakshi now.

    Yes, we know that Kakshi has 1,000 jutsu…yaaaay! You make it seem like he learned them all in one day. Of course he hasn’t run out of chakra from learning 1,000 jutsu because he learned them gradually of course (day by day). You say he could copy a jutsu of Kisame’s and counter it even if Kisame’s jutsu takes away 3/4 of his chakra? LMAO, really? Have you forgotten that Kisame has the most chakra in Akatsuki? In other words, that’s right, even more chakra than Pein. Pein the one who controlled 6 different bodies at once, multiple Shira Tensais, Bansho Tenins, reviving dead bodies, the Shira Tensei that destroyed Konoha, Chibaku Tensei, and the S Class Summonings all in ONE battle! Yes, Kisame has more chakra than that dude. If Kisame would ever put 3/4s of his chakra into a jutsu and Kakashi dared to copy it his ass is grass. Kakashi dodged Hidan’s and Kakuzu’s attack because he had tress and objects to run and hide behind. If Kisame turns the whole battlefield into water where is Kakashi to run and invade to this time? So once again, when it comes to jutsu Kakashi is screwed even if he does know 1,000 of them.

    I already addressed the issue of MS. I was simply proving it’s both noticeable and it’s avoidable thus making it a no guarantee hit. MS takes away large amounts of chakra from Kakashi so if (when) he misses he’s in deep shit. That is all I needed you and everyone else to know Marksman. Yeah common sense is a bitch. 😛

    He missed Deidara’s head not only because he was inexperienced with the MS at the time but also because Deidara had the “common sense” (it’s a good word after all) not to stand there again and moved out of the way.

    Oh, you want proof again but this time it’s about Kakahsi not using MS on the other nins? Why do I need to offer proof if it was just my opinion after all. It makes the most sense but I’m not forcing you to listen to it. 😉 I said it wastes his chakra that’s why he doesn’t use it like chidori because Kakashi’s sharingan is not natural and it expends way to much. I do remember saying, “dire circumstances”… Hence the reason why he doesn’t use it on a nin who would simply move out of the way when he feels it coming *cough*Hidan*cough**cough*Kakuzu*cough*Pein*cough*and now Kisame*cough**cough*. >_>

    I guess Pein destroying the village wasn’t a dire enough circumstance for Kakashi to use his MS on him? Was Pein not worthy of a last resort attack? Or maybe because he knew a nin of Pein’s level would (yes yes move the hell outta the way we know we know! Sheesh! 🙂 )

    The explosion was not that big at all as already shown. It didn’t even get pass the first trees. Pfffft…small ass thing.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/278/02/ (Notice how the explosion is centered in between the tress)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/278/06/ (Look at that. It almost got past one of the tress. XD)

    Are you seriously telling me an S Class ninja can’t clear that area in less than a second? Hmmm…

    I see you didn’t address my point about how all Kisame has to do is swing his sword at Kakashi’s chakra to eat it up. How is Kakashi supposed top get close enough to defeat Kisame without running out of chakra because of this. Oh well, I’m sure you’ll get to it next time.

    *Sees Marksman muttering nonsensical sharingan jargon to himself and walks away slowly* 0_0

  156. yo supertrek

    not that i disagree much with you but didnt you forget that he caught a flying rocket and a f*cking nail with ms? or that his obito gives him a nice little advantage in taijutsu aswell? and last but not least, you mentioned it half way around kakashi is a lightning user while everything we saw from kisame was waterbased… not a good thing to start with dont you think ^^

    wellwell common sense s bitch hmm old greeks used to call those guys sophistics i think 🙂

  157. still kisame is probably madara right hand for a reason thats not just based on loyalty …

  158. @Klokoller: Indeed you’re right. Kakashi is very proficient in making things disappear that are not trying to avoid his MS.

    First the nail. It was flicked straight at Kakashi. Hard to miss a target going straight at your eyeball while you’re using doujutsu right? 😉

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/423/17/

    Next the rocket. It was going in a straight linear path towards Chouji. It wasn’t zigzagging all over the place trying to avoid the MS like a live human being would do. Thus the rocket was easy to catch since Kakashi didn’t have a hard time tracking it down.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/424/16/

    Would Kisame’s movements be as predictable as the flight trajectory of the nail and rocket? Of course not. The sharingan can predict moves but when Kakashi brings out the MS he closes the other eye and has to concentrate on zooming in on the opponent/target. The MS itself does not work like the regular sharinagn predicting where the opponent is going to go. In other words Kakashi’s MS is only used for warping targets into other dimensions. As awesome as that is like every technique it is fallible.

    “or that his obito gives him a nice little advantage in taijutsu aswell?” (Klokoller)

    I don’t know if Kakashi has an “Obito” but perhaps you meant sharingan? 🙂

    Yes, I have addressed this too. Kakashi does have great taijutsu and his sharingan enhances his abilities in this area with perception and sight. The thing is Kisame also has great taijutsu and is physically stronger than Kakashi. Not only this but his sword doesn’t even have to touch Kakashi for it suck away his chakra. If Kakashi gets to close to Kisame to use taijutsu all Kisame has to do is swing his sword down and he cuts off Kakashi’s chakra completely.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/17/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/18/

    And the water thing…yeah, in Naruto water is not directly weak against lighting. As Tenrai proved it’s not even a good conductor unless it’s acidic.

  159. Hi y’all, I’ve been a long time silent reader of IRA and decided to weigh in my new views at WRA.

    Great breakdown Gavin. Now, regarding this Kisame vs Kakashi debate.. I think we all know too much of Kakashi and too little of Kisame to correctly guess their odds.

    As an example, if after the Jiraiya vs Pain Battle we were told that Pein would go alone into Konoha and fight em all, and told to specify our chances about Konoha vs Pain, what would we have said?? Konoha, of course. And we could not have been more wrong. Kishi has this habit of showing Akatsuki characters for the first time with about just 20% (This is my estimation,so please don’t quarrel with me regarding this number) of their skills against some insignificant foe, and when they face off against main characters he shows off their big a$$ powers. The 20%(My magic number 🙂 ) of kisame has been very well discussed here and I wouldn’t like to repeat it. So I’m gonna go with Tenrai and super on this one and place my bets on kisame.

    @Tenrai, I don’t think pein was included when they said kisame had the greatest chakra pool. If kisame really has more chakra than pein whose one of seven bodies had the power of a H-Bomb, Akatsuki might as well give up extracting chakra from tailed beasts and take it from Kisame instead..jkjk..

    Seriously, I think pain, will remain as the most powerful character in Naruto, maybe not the most stable or the greatest strategist, but physically I don’t think anyone is equal to him.Maybe Madara, if he gets his hands on what he is planning.. But no one else at present.

  160. @Tenrai, oops,I mistook one of super’s post for yours..

    can someone make that “@Tenrai” into “@super”??

  161. @supertreck

    about kakahsi progressing ,u know that even though kisame would have preogressed ,he could still not progress at the rate kakashi did.getting ms though not of uchiha blood ,and not killing a friend is a proof of that.

    about the 3/4 chakra attack kisame does

    as i already said

    what will happen

    1-kakashi dodges?

    as i said earlier with his speed and the slowed down vison he gets with sharingan he can dodge it ….

    2- he counters?

    its difficult but countering with a low powered attack will give him the time to dodge very easily

    3-he fully counters?

    he does a heay attack

    like his wolf lighting blade or a defensive move like earth wall earth is powerfull re,member

    about ms

    now why hasnt he been using ms

    simple it takes too o much outta him,he uses it as a last weapon in his arsenal ,as itachi used susano’o it has the same effect on kakashi as susano’o has on itachi ,in one way … they both die by over-using it

    ms is kakashi’s last hope and according to me he has till now after dieddra used only to sae lives of comrades,i still think he hasnt fully masterd it ,

    about the size of the ms wrapping its dependent on chakara as during pain batlle kakashi said “with my current chakra level his whole body is out of the question ,”

    dont trust me check on onemanga

    so when u say that the size of blast is small or big it is up to kakashi ,simply so no point arguing over size of blast

  162. @super when you say

    “The thing is Kisame also has great taijutsu and is physically stronger than Kakashi. ”

    well as you agree sharingan enhances the vision right,and kakashi has a greater speed right.so even if kisame attacks with his full might and main.kakashi would know that the attack is comming(sharingan) and will dodge it wiht his speed which is greater than kisame’s and again using the sharingan and taking his speed as aan adantage can easily catch kisame of-guarrd and pwn the shit out of him(srry got a little too exited there)

    come at me now yaaaaaaaaa

    super im at chap 500 of onepiece yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  163. @wakarimashta i agree akatsuki would just kill kisame and take his chakra

  164. @ debate: why is everyone debating on Kakashi vs. Kisame when it’s Killerbee who’ll be up against fishboy? 😀
    Personally, I’d say Kisame’d have it hard in that fight. Remember Suigetsu?

  165. *Turns around and sees supers respones. Notices that super has brong out more of the same points ive have already proven wroung with common since.*

    *sigh*
    ok supertrek. Um where do i begin? Im right your worng hehe. Just joking, mostly.

    Ok your first point about the three year time period of training. Apparently you didnt read thoroughly what i said in my argument agaist that. But it wouldnt be the first time i guess. I brought out a logical opinion saying that kakashi had more time on his hands to train the kisame did. That could have thus closed a major gap in the power level who i believe you said kisames was over 9000. ( What 9000?!) That was my point. Im not going back to this again but i know you prob will *sigh*

    Ok Super you say Zubuza and kakashi both underestimated each other. Zubuza underestimated the sharingan. He corrected his mistake got serious and pwned kakashi. This happened because kakashi made the mistake of underestimating Zubanza. When it came down to it and neither one of them were underestimating each other any more look who came out on top. Kakashi none the less. You say he outwited him. Sure he did outwit him. So whos to say he wont outwit kisame? We all know kakashi has better brain power then him.

    Super you said: Yes, we know that Kakshi has 1,000 jutsu…yaaaay! You make it seem like he learned them all in one day.)

    I did?! WTF where. I dont remeber making it seem that way. As a matter of fact i didnt. My point is that who ever kakashi was fighting he copied there jitsu (Which out of a thousand is prob way stroger then kisame and take up more chakra) and somehow came out on top and still won the fight.
    And again i have to repeat myself:——->>>>>>>>( ok kakashi has copied strong attacks before in the past AND NEVER RAN OUT OF CHAKRA BECAUSE OF IT. He copied kisames water attack and zabuzas and still had plenty of chakr to spair. Let think about this guys! kakashi has copied 1000 jitsus. Im pretty sure he has copied jitsu stonger then both kiame and zabuza in still won the fight. The proof is HE IS STILL ALIVE FROM COPYING ALL THOSE JITSUS. Jeez the way you guys are talking kakashi should have died from the first jitsu he ever copied from exuaghtion. -__-”?! When in the manga has kakashi ever goten tired after copying a strong jitsu to the point he couldnt continue the fight?)

    *sigh* I have already proven this point and am not going back to it again.

    Super you said: Kakashi dodged Hidan’s and Kakuzu’s attack because he had tress and objects to run and hide behind. If Kisame turns the whole battlefield into water where is Kakashi to run and invade to this time? So once again, when it comes to jutsu Kakashi is screwed even if he does know 1,000 of them.)

    This sounds like a bull exscuse man. -__-“?! He had ojects to hide behind. Riiiiight! ok! that must of been it. He didnt dodge the high level attack or counterd it you you said a ninja would have to do in this situation super, kakashi simple hid behind a tree. WTF man. That was the best excuse you could come up with?!

    If i remeber correctly (which i do kakashi was in mid air Around NO TREES OR OBTICALLS and he Dodge the high level attack witch you said a ninja couldnt do. I proved that wrong. So im not going back to this point.
    Ok well Kisame spits out an ocean! OMG what is kakashi going to do?! -__-“?! How about stand over top the water like every ninja does! DUH!!!!!!!!!! U say common since is a bitch super. But for some reason you didnt use any. ^_^ im j/k man.

    Super you said: I already addressed the issue of MS. I was simply proving it’s both noticeable and it’s avoidable thus making it a no guarantee hit.)

    Fine! I was simply proving you wrong saying that if a ninja doesnt know about the attack or whats going on how can he avoid it. Thats right the first time he didnt. Wonder Why? OH thats right because he didnt know about it. There are plenty examples in the manga i can bring out to futher prove this point. And im pretty sure that if kakashi does use Ms he wont miss because he will know what will happen if he does. Kakashi is smart enough to plan this out as proven before in the past. Remeber he is smarter the shikimaru who tricked hidan. So if shiki can do so can kakashi.

    Super you said: I guess Pein destroying the village wasn’t a dire enough circumstance for Kakashi to use his MS on him? Was Pein not worthy of a last resort attack?

    If i remeber corectly pain destroyed the village after he defeated kakashi who in there battle didnt get the chance to us his ms because he had to save chojis useless fat ass.

    Your right about the exploision super. But im pretty sure the exploision was large enough to warp kisame and a body of water. OK im finished now.

    *Notices super backing away slowly because he afraid and know im right about my previous point about the kakashis sharingan.*

    hehe rack up another one for the marksman. The Incredible Marksman that is

  166. jutsu kisame got pwned by gaysensey i think they said he had about a third his original chakra back then … and letz not forget that it doesnt matter if your powerlvl is over 9000 or not when you recieve a deadly blow! what im trying to say is: this battle would be (as allways) a clock battle. kakashi got the deadlier techniques and is more likely to suprise-instant-kill in the early rounds while kisame d be sure to win if the battle drags on too long. eventhough we havnt seen it yet (and it would belame and suck as hell) but kakashi too is very promising kandidate to open the celestial gate just like gay succesfully did. oh and TREK catching a nail (which is rather small) while pretending to get hit by it in otherwords waiting for pain to shoot it before sucking it in shouldnt be ( i hate to use this phrase but i have to … fuckin overused shit) underestimated compared to catching a 300pounds shark-human.

    ps: this discussion is OVER! i win. xD

  167. hmm since we re allready at the eye talkithingy again does anyone think narutos new crosseyes give him some sort of new skills? or power?

  168. @Klokoller: LMAO! Too bad I don’t know what side you’re on because you said both Kisame and Kakashi would win depending on variable situations. Then I might just know if you won or not. 😄

    @Marksman: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you try in vain Marksman but your posts go nowhere. Every post I do I gain supporters while your posts are unable to sway anyone. The simple fact is because Kisame whoops Kakashi’s ass and the Kisame supporters have proven it. I must say I do enjoy reading your posts though because they give me a good laugh and make me all excited as I rev up to prove them wrong again and again! 😄

    You reiterate the same points over and over again and then you say, ‘Oh noes, I hope Super doesn’t go over the same points again like I just did so I’m going to sit here and “sigh” hoping he moves on instead of proving me wrong.’ You sound tired from all that sighing you need a nap? 😉

    LOL, alright let’s get into it again shall we?

    First off what is “Common since”? Common since what? Was Swing Dancing common in the 30s and 40s but since then it’s only a specialty? Was it common to watch Pokemon in the 90s but ever since then you might be considered a loser to watch it now? Lol, it seems I’m the only one that has been using “Common Sense” around here while all this time you’ve been using “Common Since”. Go ahead and check your old posts. LMAO, well typos are common but I thought I’d just point that out and help you out here. Maybe finally you’ll start using some actual common sense next time? Jkjk, Marksman! 😮

    Oh, I read your post and I read it carefully. You assumed that Kakashi had more time on his hands than Kisame. Good job. You know what they say about assume Marksman? It makes an “ass” out of “u” and “me”. So please don’t assume next time. Lol, I’m not going to even ask you to offer proof to show me that Kakashi had more time on his hands than Kisame because you can’t show me anything. What I will tell you though is that you have neglected that Kakashi is still a ninja of Konaha. Thus, he is still assigned missions and tasks for the village frequently. So, as you say Kisame was out doing missions and somehow never found the time to train Kakahsi was also out doing missions too. Fair enough?

    As I’ve said before neither of us can prove who trained the most between Kakashi and Kisame but you and Ashan seem to be passionate about saying Kakashi trained more without any proof… What can be proven though is that Kisame has always had a power gap over Kakashi and in 3 years this is most likely still to be true. Oh, and I remember reading you won’t go back to this point again? Goo then, so let’s move on! 😉

    Kakashi was better than Zabuza in the end this has been shown already. I said it in fact. The whole point is Kisanme is at least 10x stronger than Zabuza and at least 8x stonger than Kakashi. Kakashi would have gotten an ass raping by him then and in all likelihood would to now. I’m making a correlation here. Math Igor math! @_@

    You countered by saying, “So whos to say he wont outwit kisame?”

    LMAO, I can counter by saying who’s to say he will outwit Kisame? See these kind of arguments bring us nowhere. We all know Kakashi has been fooled by duller enemies than him before. Clones, Mist Technique, he jumped in the water and was thus imprisoned.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/13/07/ (Lol, even Zabuza called Kakashi foolish XD)

    He underestimated his opponents which was also foolish of him. Just because he has more brainpower doesn’t mean his plans will succeed in fooling Kisame. Not only that but Kakashi is prone to mistakes to just like any other ninja.

    About the 1,000 jutsus. Dude I was exaggerating. Lol, we both know Kakashi’s unable to learn 1,000 jutsu in a day. You said here,

    “He copied kisames water attack and zabuzas and still had plenty of chakr to spair.” (Marksman)

    Those copies were 3 years apart. Hence I said, “You make it seem like he learned them all in one day.” Notice I said “seem” not that is what you were actually doing. Oh what’s this? You’re not going back to this point either? Good then. I’m kinda disappointed though you have yet to prove Kakashi could counter a jutsu that would take up 3/4 of Kisame’s chakra supply. You say “I’m pretty sure” there you go assuming again “he has copied jitsu stonger then both kiame and zabuza in still won the fight.” Well I’m pretty sure Kakashi hasn’t copied a justu as strong as 3/4 of Kisame’s chakra supply. That would guarantee Kakashi would not only run out of chakra but he’d die while completing the seal.

    Hmmm….it wasn’t much of an excuse was it? Me saying that Kakashi used the trees and surrounding obstacles to avoid Hidan and Kauzu’s attack…it’s not like that’s what he actually did right? Instead of looking at it as in excuse perhaps you should look at it as fact. After all it’s in the manga and it’s what he actually did right? It’s good Kakashi dodged that attack in midair because then he would be dead and we wouldn’t want our favorite Copy Cat ninja dead now would we? I guess you didn’t get the whole point of Kisame turning the whole battlefield into a body of water. Kisame mainly uses water jutsu…you seeing the picture now? His jutsu can come from all around Kakashi making it impossible for Kakashi to evade especially if he has nothing to hide behind this time.

    Of course Kakashi would stand on top of the water did I say anything differently? Kakashi is not dumb enough to sit there and drown is he? Enough of the “common since” Marksman it’s time to start using some actual “common sense”. ^_^

    You proved me wrong…where? You have yet to prove me wrong in anything so far. Lol, now don’t your panties all up in a bunch over this statement because I know you’re trying your best and I commend you. Deidara didn’t dodge because he didn’t know what was going on and instead of being a smart ninja he stayed in direct eye sight of Kakashi and lost an arm. I have already said all this so how can you by repeating it prove me wrong? That is a confusing conundrum Marksman…

    Pein wasn’t destroying the village during Kakashi’s fight Marksman? There wasn’t rubble all around them and houses destroyed while they were fighting? The attack on Konoha didn’t happen until after Kaakashi fought Pein? Marksman you are wrong again. I said, “I guess Pein destroying the village wasn’t a dire enough circumstance for Kakashi to use his MS on him?” Notice I said “destroying” not destroyed. Pein was destroying the village at the moment of the fight and before the fight like I said. Ahem…

    Kakasi had plenty of time to use MS during the fight especially when Chouji and and Chouza had Pein chained down. Actually anytime the opponent is in Kakashi’s eyesight he can use MS on him. He could have used MS before Chouji arrived. Too bad all the opponent has to do is move out the way. Otherwise Kakashi’s MS would be perfecto! 😀

    Again you haven’t addressed Kisame’s sword and how Kakashi is supposed to get close enough to use taijutsu. In fact if you look at this link again.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/13/07/

    You see that even with the sharingan out and his mastery of taijutsu anyone who is also good in taijutsu can knock him on his ass. In fact how many times have we seen Kakashi defeated through taijutsu, genjutsu, and ninjutsu? The sharingan helps…but it does not guarantee victory nor does it guarantee evasion or hits. This comment is mostly directed at Ashan but you can comment on it to if you like Marksman. 🙂

    I don’t know the score Marksman but according to the people I swayed you’re losing…badly. No fret though this will be my last post on the subject. I always keep my word when it comes to these matters. You and Ashan can have the last word and make it as long or short as possible. Dynamic is right the real debate is on Kisame vs. Killer Bee because that will actually happen. Make it fun Marksman maybe you’ll get some where this time eh? 😉

  169. I wonder if the frog Kosuke, the one Danzou killed, will come back to life.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/421/17/

    Since Fukasaku came back to life.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/449/04/

    Just a thought, I wonder what would get stirred up if that were happen?

  170. @super, Ahsan: Soo–o, super’s retiring? NOOO!! Not when we got to the good debate! Bee vs. Fish! Come on! This one’s the one we’ve all been waiting for… right? >_>

    Actually, the reference to the animal kingdom I just made gives me the creeps. Seriously, a killer bee versus a fish. Geez, I wonder who’d win *eyeroll*

    I’m going with the bee. ^^

  171. hehe sounds to me super you and kisame need to wake up to the reality that is kakashi and Marksman.

    I dont have time to respond my friend because of an interveiw i most go on.

    But alas! I shall return and prove all the same predictable points you insist on continuing to bring out wroung like i always do.

    Patience my young padawan

  172. @Dynamic: Retiring from the old debate of of Kisame vs. Kakashi I am but from Killer Bee vs. Kisame I’m not. Dammit, Marksman has me talking like Yoda now! >_< Lol, as for Kileer Bee vs. Kisame I don't know. They're pretty close in power level and won't be as easy to decide the outcome of the battle. Not as easy as it was for Kisame vs. Kakashi that is.

    @Marksman: YES! I wait you're return I just want to see if you can keep to your word and not go over the same points you said you wouldn't go over again. I bet you can't! 😛

    You're at a loss my adversary once again. Oh, and good luck at your interview! Just don’t start randomly sprouting stuff off about Naruto or he’ll/she’ll look at you crazy. Besides it seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about anyway. 😉

  173. Alright, so many posts have been thrown into this Kakashi vs Kisame debate, that I am actually not going t try and counter them.

    Instead, I will simply do an overall analysis.

    Alright firstly, the main arguments that have been thrown out there have to do with the Sharinga, Kakashi’s speed and his knowledge of a wide variety of jutsu. Now lets adress those.

    Firstly the sharingan. Now, the uspide is that it allows Kakashi to see a person’s movements, read their jutsu and even ast genjutsu. This coupled with his speed means that he can counter very well and evade attacks. But this is not always the case.

    Firstly, reading a person’s movements means nothign if you can’t stop them. just because he knows what Kisame is doing does not mean you can avoid it. After all, if you know an atomic bomb is going to drop in your area, does that mean you can get away from it in time? There is also the issue of the chakra drain inhibeted by its use. The longer he uses it, the more it affects him. Kisame would win an endurance battle due to higher stamina and chakra, so that is to Kakashi’s dissadvantage.

    Now, Kakashi may have also better spead (I say MAY because we have not seen Kisame’s spead properly) but an overwhelming attack can be impossible to avoid no matter how fast you are. Gai is faster than Kakashi (yes he is, look in the manga) but even he was getting his rear end handed to him. Also, on water Kisame has the advantage and he has shown that he can move fast and even ride the water like its no hassle to him.It is his turf and he fights best on it. He will make any battle field his playground and he know hos ti use it to his advantage.

    Now as for coppying jutsu, once again it is circumstantial. Kakashi said himself that you need to meet the requirements for a juts, (I.E. spead, chakra etc) in order to copy it. Even though Sasuke could copy Lee’s taijutsu, he still did not have the speed and the developed muscles to macth it properly, so it wore him out more than it would Lee.

    Now, in Kakashi’s case, his disadvantage is in his chakra pool. Kisame has a lot of it, while Kakashi has much less in comparison. Any jutsu of Kisame’s that Kakashi does will never be as good as how Kisame can do it. He can use other elements that Kisame can’t but that is not helpful if water is the main order of the day. Earth is strong against water, but where will Kakashi find earth if Kisame has made an ocean to battle on.

    Lighnting has been suggested as well, but once again water is not a great conducter of ellectricity, not to mention Kakashi would be at just as much risk of damage as Kisame is if we pretended it was. Fire is also a no go, and Kakashi has not shown any noteable wind use to make it suggestable. So in terms of jutsu, I give it to Kisame purely based on the fact that he has more chakra to throw around to make more powerful jutsu and because he will ahve an abundance of water to keep him happy. Even at 30% chakra he could cover an enire battle ground in a very deep lake of water as well as create tidal waves with it like it was nothing. Imagine him at 100%.

    Now for genjutsu, which Kakashi can use. Alright, Kakashi cannot use Tsukyomi as far as we know but he can cast normal genjutsu using the sharingan. Hovever, Kisame is not some rookie genin with poor chakra control who does not know how to break a genjutsu. The sharingan’s genjutsu can be broken normally, unless it is a Tsukyomi, which means that someone skilled like Kisame, with good chakra control could free himself. If Sakura could break Kabuto’s genjutsu during the chunin exams, when 90% of the populace at the finals stadium got knocked out to bed (and she was a genin) then an S-class nin should have no trouble whatsoever. Why do you think Kakashi never tried it against Hidan or Kakuzu? Genjutsu does not mean instant win like some people might suggest, it is simply another trick in a shinobi’s arsenal and can be countered just like any other.

    As or taijutsu, well Gai was a taijutsu user superior to Kakashi and even he was getting nailed by Kisame. Despite apparently haveing superior speed, he was still getting knocked around like a toy. Only once he unleashed his gates did he actually manage to achieve any real comeback and even then it was against an apponent fighting at 30% of his maximum power. Speed is not always enough, and it is even worse when you are fighting on terain that your opponent is specialised in maneuvering on. Also, Kisame is said to have super human strength and his sword is not for show. He can swing it like a toy and it absorbs chakra, brining his lose combat capability to much higher levels that normal. he can also use it to block atacks and jutsu due to its wide base.

    Last, but not least, the Mangyeko Sharingan. All I can say is that Kakashi has only used it in two battles. Once agaisnt Deidara, where he managed to take off an arm and getting himself hospitalised for two weeks for his efforts, and then against Pein, where he died because o fit.

    When you have a jutsu that can kill you sooner than you enemies, that is not helpful. If Kakashi so much as misses with his attack, or hits a false target, he would be in deep trouble. It is simply too circumstantial to be effective and it drains far too much chakra to be wasted. It is only ever used as a last resort and by then, Kakashi is obviously already losing the battle.

    I am done… ^ ^

  174. ok supertrek ,Tenria. Fair Game. You guys put up an execelent argument. But i expect nothing less.

    Moving on To killer B Vs Kisame.

    So is this a new debate or what?

  175. @marksman: It’d be great if it were ^^
    I’m going to bed now but I wish I could give my 2 cents on that one in the morning. So far I hold record for the longest argument in he pairing wars, so perhaps this will make me try out something new *rubs hands together gleefully* Let the debating begin! *yawns*

    In the morning. >_>

  176. So who won between kisame and kakashi? (this is me being a complete d-bag trying to make marksman and supertreck argue again :)) jk.

    so almighty killer biggie vs fish? hehehehe

    I remember that not long ago i found a site where i saw some info about the bijuus before the naturo universe (i’m not sure if this actually happened before the mangaa or is just some random jappanese folklore).

    Anyway, according to this the bijuus used to fight between them (big time). Obiously 9 tails won against every bijuu he ever encountered, but the eight tails was a close second. According to this site, foxy chocolate and bullie the bijuu fought for 100 years until bullie’s chakra went no show and Clifford the big red dog.. em i mean the kyubi won :). If someone can fight for 100 years against the kyubi and not die then he/she is purely awesome :). If killer biggie has this inmense amount of chakra and power at his disposal then this fight is a no-brainer.

    (don’t worry. i’m trying to find that damn site)

    ciao,
    supafreak

  177. @Marksman: NOOOOOOOOOO, you have to counter! Say something ANYTHING! Call me an asshole, tell me I’m wrong, laugh in my face! I feel like a jackass now… >_<

    Yes, it was a great debate and you and Ashan both put up excellent arguments!

    *whispers* Though you put up the more logical ones *ends whispering* >_>

    Lol, you gave me a good argument too Ashan I just wanted to focus on Marksman since he initiated the debate. 😉 Overall, I wish we had a judge to decide a winner but alas we have none, so I’m calling this a tie since both oppositions but up quite the debate. *mutters something about how he knows Kisame would really win anyway* >_>

    @Tenrai: Excellent points! Nuff' said! 🙂

    @Dynamic and Supa: Well since you two are so passionate about this new debate I'm gonna come out and say…I don't know who would win! Honestly! Kisame vs. Killer Bee the magnitude of that fight and the outcome is beyond comprehension. Mainly because we don't know enough about the two. I tell you this though. I'm rooting for Killer Bee! 😉

  178. Killer Bee and Kisame ?
    I’d place my bets on Killer Bee, what with his seven-swords and what-not.

  179. Found it 🙂

    http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=57918

    http://ryoshosan.tripod.com/id26.html

    Killer biggie FTW

  180. Is the new chapter up!?

  181. @tenrai

    no matter what you say i will keep trying toget this into your brain that as you say sharingan gives him an enhanced vision and his speed is greater (according to the site ibiki used for refrece)
    he can dodge them

    if the attack is too overwhelming

    1-kakashi dodges?

    as i said earlier with his speed and the slowed down vison he gets with sharingan he can dodge it ….

    2- he counters?

    its difficult but countering with a low powered attack will give him the time to dodge very easily

    3-he fully counters?

    he does a heay attack

    like his wolf lighting blade or a defensive move like earth wall earth is powerfull re,member

    now about water.as i said before kakashi is himself a water user at master level and can ,like kisame create water out of nowhere ,so he a person who is calm ,in a battle plans out his attacks ,This is primarily because he can quickly analyze the situation at hand and comprehend his opponent’s abilities and battle tactics. After doing so, he can use sharp intuition to make quick and firm decisions to switch to the appropriate counter tactics.”

    and kisame as we have seen is more of a urger in to a battle ,he likes more action(lol)

    are you trying to teelll me kakshi is at a disadvantage in water?

    about wind he can do the wind attack rotation,so there goes your fire .

    now why hasnt he been using ms

    simple it takes too o much outta him,he uses it as a last weapon in his arsenal ,as itachi used susano’o it has the same effect on kakashi as susano’o has on itachi ,in one way … they both die by over-using it

    ms is kakashi’s last hope and according to me he has till now after dieddra used only to sae lives of comrades,i still think he hasnt fully masterd it ,

    about the size of the ms wrapping its dependent on chakara as during pain batlle kakashi said “with my current chakra level his whole body is out of the question ,”

    dont trust me check on onemanga

    so when u say that the size of blast is small or big it is up to kakashi ,simply so no point arguing over size of blast

  182. @super when i am here how the frekin hell can kakashi loose

    bring it on all you kisame lovers

  183. @Ahsan

    Alright, I already made my point about Kakashi evading an attack. As I said before, superior speed and Sharingan don’t guarantee successful evasion. When i refer to an overwhelming attack, I am not just refering to Kisame’s taijutsu, I am referring to his ninjutsu.

    You make it sound like we are only talking about taijutsu here, but the fact is that Kisame has very large scale jutsu to use that can cover an entire battlefield. Also, Kakashi may have superior speed on land, but in water it may be a different story. evading an attack is much more difficult when your opponent controls the very water you stand on.

    As for your argument about Kakashi have high level water jutsu, I will agree with you that he does. But Kisame simply has more chakra. More chakra = more powerful jutsu, so Kakashi is at a disadvantage. Also, Kisame specializes in suiton jutsu, so he will obviously have an edge in that deparetment.

    As for your wind argument, we have never seen Kakashi use wind and I believe the reason for that is due to the fact that his primary element is lightning. Lightning is weak against wind, so wind is the opposite to his natural affinity, so it probably does not gel with him very well.

    Also, what you have mentioned for the MS is basically what i have stipulated already. If he uses it, he is probably losing the battle already, so in essence the best he can achieve with that is a draw, where both he and his opponent are dead. LOL.

    Another thing is that you seem to suggest that Kisame is not smart. Yes, Kakashi is a genius and a strategist, but who’s to say Kisame isn’t. We can all agree that Gai is really stupid most of the time, but he has beaten Kakashi in battle, and he ONLY uses taijutsu. He is probably less diverse than Kisame and he still manage to trump the copy ninja in battle. Sometimes instincts and passion pwn smarts and strategy. That is just how it is.

  184. about ninjutsu ,if kakashi cannot fully dodge it as i said before he can do two more things

    1 use a low powered jutsu to give him time to escape

    2 use a high level tech ,and own kisame’s jutsu ,or a defencive techlike earth wall

    if i dont have prrof kakash cant use wind element you dont have that kisame can use fire,and wind is not superior to fire,water is.

    do you remember that when itachi and kisame went to konoha kisame was the one attacking kakashi ,without thinking a thing ,and itachi toold him to not do stupidity as kakashi is powerful beyond him

  185. @Ahsan

    Hmm, well I never saw anything in reference to Itachi saying that, but it stands to reason that he should be cautious. Kakshi is a renowned shinobi, after all, and I never disputed that fact. However, just because Itachi might tell Kisame to be cautious, that does not mean Kakshi is stronger.

    Also, about the ninjutsu, I never mentioned once that Kisame could sued fire. In fact I have never mentioned him using anything other than water. I was simply referring to the fact that Kakashi has never used wind in the manga or the anime that I have seen.

    i gave my theory on why I think that is the case, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter, because he simply has not used it. He may know over 1000 jutsu, but once again knowing a jutsu and using it effectively are two different stories.

    If he does not meet the requirements, he will not use them as effectively and that will be to his disadvantage.

    In any case, my argument is based on overall parameters. I do not like to debate circumstantial situations based on what COULD happen. What ifs and maybe’s are just stipulation. overall I believe Kisame has the edge based on his capability.

  186. Yeah dude, Kisame wins.
    The simple fact that he can pretty much make the battlefield an ocean kind of douses most things Kakashi can do.

  187. @tenrai

    in other worlds kaakshi has the advantage is ninjutsu

    he is better in speed,which along with sharinganhe can easily catch kiaem of-guard

    and are u trying to say taht the jutsu’s he knows are not done perfectly by him

  188. 452 is out!!

  189. naruto is out

    ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/452/01/

  190. … and it KICKS A$$!
    … a bit. ^^;
    The only part I liked was the fight between Team 7 and Team Cloud. Now THAT was something worth reading *SHANNARO!*
    And I ROFL’d at Sai too. “Check out my tongue tattoo bitches! Join Danzo and he’ll give you one as cool as mine!”

  191. that wasnt too good a chapter -.-” why the hell did those bumnins draw their swords? they just earned a major lol … little like someone had to put some action in the chapter for basic entertainment 😀

    and yes i feel totally dumped by that jounin voting thing?! whats the point of danzo being hokage when there s gonna be a vote on that one afterwards anyway?!? crap man

  192. Why does it seem as if all black people in the Naruto world originate from Kumogakure ?
    I enjoy the idea, because lightning IS the best element, after all.

  193. @nagashikage – lmao kishimoto has put all the black peeps into one village, lol!! Its easier for him to keep track i suppose,lmao!

  194. chapter sucked ,no action,though thats not always possible on the whole it was good to say kakashi again trying to talk some sense in to naruto(which of course was a failed attempt) well on the whole it was ok

    and btw

    kakashi has owned kisame

    kakashi FTW

  195. Nice breakdows…still something quite doesnt feel right….or whole??

  196. yeEESSSS!!! i finally found a home after ira… thank you! 😀

  197. this was a intresting chapter despite what everyone thinks, this is just like the tinyyyy part in nagato’s flesh-back only a little more better, we lear a good deal about danzou’s methods of keeping he’s root squad scilent, we also may have a hint of oposition comin from Sai who i think eventualy will be the one who reveles the true d-bag for what he really is, the fight between the cloud team and team 7 was a little disturbing, i mean here we have the 2 probably most skilled young nin in konoha having a hard time with a lollypot sucking kid and a skinny black sakura, not to be rasist or anything like that i think black people are the coolest people @ but c’mon this is sakura and naruto here the girl thet defeted sasori and the guy thet kicked kakuzu’s ass and smash’ed 6 of the badest zombies this world has ever seen.

  198. One thing i don’t get… sai said he can’t talk about danzo (hence the seal in his tongue) but can he write about him? Unless the seal is also in his brain i can’t see how he can’t use the good old paper. anyway, i loved the way kakashi went all “bitch right there!” on naruto lmao.

  199. whoops… i meant “bitch stay right there”

  200. @Nagashikage & Loki: LMAO!!! 😄 Maybe Kishi doesn’t understand everywhere is not like Japan a, for the most part, homogeneous society. That there’s heterogeneous communities out there. Nani? Not all black people live together in one place? LOL 😄

    @Ashan: What chapter were you reading? There was action, not a lot, but there was action in there. Also, what debate were you reading? The only one Kakashi owned was himself from overuse of his Sharingan. I’m not saying Kisame won either but I still believe he would come out on top. Anyway, Kakashi didn’t win anything except another trip to the hospital. I’m calling it a draw…again!

    @Eugen: The Cloud Ninja are hella awesome but what they just did there doesn’t prove anything except they have great skill. I just want to point out a few things.

    1. Naruto was beyond tired. Remember only a while ago he was about to collapse from exhaustion from defeating Pein. He just came from a huge battle, but yet he was the only one to notice and act as Omoi and Karui snuck up on them. Props to my man Naruto! 😀

    2. Sakura…poor Sakura you’re making this to easy for me. She got her stomach kicked in and I was more than disappointed. When you say Sakura beat Sasori don’t forget to mention Chiyo. At least half the cred goes to her for Sasori’s defeat and in the end if you want to really get technical they did not kill and defeat Sasori. In the end he killed himself even when he could have won. Still, what matters though is that the win went to Sakura and Chiyo and they both did excellent jobs! Man they’re such great fighters! (That’s to get the Sakura lovers off my back *cough*Dro*cough*) 😀

    3. Sai didn’t really do much either but Naruto did take his sword away from him. What was his kick swinging at though…it was a complete miss!

    4. Overall though the battle would’ve went to Naruto, Sakura, and Sai hands down if the match was serious….only because of Naruto though. Honestly, these Cloud Ninja are not to be taken lightly.

    @Anyone: What I don’t get though is why Karui drew her sword on Sakura. Hostile much? I know Sasuke from Konoha Village attacked Kumogakure but that doesn’t make everyone in Konoha their enemy. After all Sasuke is now a missing nin and is not affiliated with Konoha as such, and Konoha is not affiliated with the actions he takes. What kind of answer was she expecting from the group of ninjas when she pointed her sword? You don’t waltz into a village and start pointing swords at the residents unless you’re asking for a fight.

  201. Why does Sai have a half sword ? I swear to God …

  202. Sai’s tongue seal was a tad ridiculous and unnecessary. We get it already, danzou is prick and oppressive, etc…but that has to be the dumbest way to keep someone quiet; if you cant talk, then just frikin write it down and have them read the info – thanks for another flawed, pointless plot point, kishi

  203. @super: LOL – more like 85% of the credit goes to Chiyo 😉 . Idk how strong those cloud nin are – but naruto was holding his own suprisingly easy, even sai seemed okay, but Sakura runs in and gets pwned as easy as can be.
    [SIGH]
    She just makes it so easy to be hated.

    @adakias: i must respectfully disagree. I think that just reinforces who and what Danzou is. He’s power hungry, paranoid and will do what ever it takes. The seal proves that what Danzou’s group have done could be enough to have him disposed of as hokage and shows that he is a man of many dark secrets.

  204. Liked the chapter what the hells wrong with the cloud nins, jeez take a chill pill will ya u don’t go waltz in another ninja village and attack! What if sai told danzo and somehow danzo used that to some how start a war! Once again. Naruto owns u would think putting you hands on a sword would hurt.

  205. @deathcon4: One, that was a shadow clone, and two, he clamped on the flat side with his palm, so I don’t think any pain is due for arrival.
    Now if it was Sasuke’s Kusanagi … different story. Different book too.

  206. naruto held himself very well in that fight he practically held them both off and had to grab sakura. it would be game over if he was in sage mode. wasnt there that debate about sakura and hinata having a fight and how sakura would dodge all attacks im starting to think she cant dodge anything lol.

  207. @ chromer91 lol dude u’re absolutly right, i that debate i was 100% hinata, sakura is the cuind of fighter now that Naruto was in he’s youth, jumps into head first and that make’s it easy for her to get owned.

    I’me not saying she’s week but the only way she can put her analysis skills at use if she fights close combat and learns to anticipate the other fighter’s moves. So a fight thet Sakura is good at is a fight simmilar to sasori, a mid to long range fighter who uses simmilar jutsu, and here sakura can put her evading skill to use and finally make a plan of attack.

    What i’me trying to say is Sakura is not a ” finish fast ” fighter, she has to gather data before she can hope for a finishing blow, unlike Naruto who now can make critical decisions in mid battle and he got really good at that, i mean just look at the pain fight, many of you would say he had help from Katsuiu and intel from Pa, but the strategy was pure naruto he knew what to do and when to do it.

  208. hmm am i the only one who s beginning to like da d-bag?

    its kinda funny but actually d-bag has become the most intresting and uncertain character in the manga just think of it… you dont really know his political goals, his past still remains undiscovered, his believes are well how to say erm coloured … and we dont even know wether hes a good guy or not.

    it d be a shame if sb kicked his ass in the near future.

  209. somehow that reminds me of kabuto in the gaara arc.

  210. btw any1 got an idea whats going on with kabuoro?

  211. I would love to see Naruto smack SasGay’s sword in half if possible in sage mode…Like, “What’s that SasGay? Oh…you’re upset?…Shut up!” Anyway I agree that Danzo has become quite the interesting character. So far, his thoughts and actions have not differed from our own government so…maybe he’ll become the next Obama? j/k!!!!!

    I would like to say, though, that in regards to all the debates of Hinata vs Suckura and Kakashi vs Kisame…it really depends on the environment they fight in and what kind of situation they’re in and, of course, who has the most Preparation-H. Another factor, which is very important, is their affinity to certain elements which may have weaknesses to others.

    @everyone: Do you think Naruto needs a sword? He’s the only one without a sword…It seems that most shinobi with huge chakra levels have swords…so…what do you think? Oh, and if you think he will get one, when do you think he’ll get it and what will it look like?

  212. well, considering that the only two other sages we know about (minato and j-man) didn’t need to use a sword, I’m guessing naruto won’t either. When he was training w/ fukusaku he didn’t train with a sword while learning sage techs, etc.
    But we DO know that he knows how to inject a kunai with some a that wind chakra of his. maybe now with his better chakra control we might see a battle when he flashes back to the memory of Asuma teaching him how to do this, and then uses that skill to counter someone’s sword…..like…say, sasuke’s or something. If he did a mass shadow clone and surrounded an enemy with a thousand fuuton kunai’s, that would be a pretty awesome mid to long-range attack

  213. @klokoller: I’ve been wondering about Kabu-oro also. Wasn’t he brought up during the Pain arc at some point? It wouldn’t seem like he’d have the same kinda “destroy konoha” agenda as Oro himself, but I guess there’s a good chance he could go after all those jutsu’s Oro discovered while he was in Konoha. Of course the whole plot could have been setup as a way to resurrect Oro through the use of kabuto’s body but I think that would be less interesting. We’ve already been there, done that. The story could use a plot twist

  214. @kahmix i agree having back the good old oro himself would be rather disappointing.

    @the naruto sword discussion: i bet my ass on naruto getting a short sword very much like sai’s but itll probably take until saucegays and narutos final encounter. well thats just a guess and i have no clou why i think that way … mb cuz we have seen some frontpages in the early episodes with naruto wielding a sword dunno but im defenitly right on that one 🙂

  215. I was asking myself this question why does Danzou have a bandage on his head, He had it when he was with Hanzou and he still has it on now. If it was an injury and he lost his eye or apart of his head he would have a eye patch or some kinda mask.
    And the when Danzou was first introduced a while back I believe his arm was in a sling I was wondering could it have been broken or Burned. And now its completly covered by a black cover thingy Im coming too a personal conclusion that Danzou is being taken over. And it first started in his Eye Or his Head and he had it all that time ago.

    So he could be half taken over like
    -Zetsu with 2 minds in one body
    -Kabuto like his Intergration tech
    -Or Madara with his Eye
    -Or possibly a Soul Stone with Powers inside it which is feeding of his Chakra slowly taking his body over some kind of Hidden power that the Senju had long ago…I over exagerated a bit with that last one..But keen on a opinion.

    Another opinion Im keen on hearing from you guys is what If Naruto used Fox Chakra too perform a Rasengan Or used it too perform his RasenShurkin Or even used his Fox Chakra too be manipulated by Natural Chakra instead of using his Own chakra from with in. Wanna know what you guys think

  216. And Naruto with a Weapon Hmmm.. If he Had a Sword it would have too a Thick Broad Sword which is like half broken but hell strong.
    I think he doesnt really needd any other weapon besides he Kunai which He could incorporate his Wind element or even Fox Chakra.
    But I See him developing his own special type of Kunai like his father did sealed Rasenshurikans inside Ninja shurikans would be cool, thats all I could come up with.

  217. So this is the new site. Seem pretty good. Just like to say I like Danzo because he said that finally Sasuke is free game. I hope them cloud nin kill him. Because we all know Naruto well not.

  218. CAPTION

    …0_0 i hop Naruto and Sakura know what their sitting on…

  219. The main reason yamatoo isnt getting any…splinters…

  220. CAPTON

    The one thing about yamatoo that turns the ladys off…splinters..

  221. ..question…this might have been answered along time ago but i was just re reading the manga and saw this

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/02/

    kisame called madara the mizukage meaning the hokage of the hidden rain village….tobi also says kisame was closest to him so he apolgoses….so in the next chapter theres suppose to be a a summit of the 5 kages…meaning wont we see who tobi really is…that is if he really isnt danzou??? Or maybe hes the old mizukage….i unno, just wanted to through that out there..

  222. @Mudshovel: You’re absolutely right! I guess I did give Sakura to much credit…my bad… 😉

    @Turpend: Well, that info has yet to be disclosed. Kismae called Madara the Mizukage but it was never said if his status as Mizukage was past or present. Kisame never said past but he called Madara Mizukage so it’s safe to assume he’s the current Mizukage. Still of Madara showed up at the meeting of 5 Kages he could sill have a mask on like the Kazekage was known to wear concealing his identity.

    Oh, and the Mizukage is the leader of the Hidden Mist Village not the Rain Village. Konan is now I guess the leader of the Hidden Rain Village…

  223. @supertrek89 – yep its the hidden mist village. Hmm wow i wonder whether Naruto realizes this but if he ever needed an army he has the hidden sand village and the hidden rain villages unanimous support. Not that he’ll go to war though since he’s supposed to find peace and all. But it really is cool now that the leaf village has finally seen naruto for what he really is. He has a total of three villages behind him alone! Man that’s some power!!

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